Bushcraft for Chavs

[ilovemybed]

Morning all,
Apologies for the vernacular, but it's the easiest way to describe my dilemma!
I'm part of a volunteer group that runs what are effectively scout camps for "Young People at Risk of Social Exclusion" called the Essex Experience, which are coordinated and supported by Essex Scouts.

The aim is to provide these youngsters with some extra social confidence, and allow them to try some new and exciting things: Climbing, archery, air rifle shooting, canoeing, circus skills etc. These guys and girls are all from the urban/suburban areas in Essex and from a variety of backgrounds, but have all been put forwards by their schools as candidates - perhaps if their parents neglect them (or are in jail!), if they've had a traumatic childhood, they're struggling at school, they've had too many ASBO's, the list goes on. Fair to say though that they have potential, but they've never been allowed to nurture it and have gone a bit astray. There's not much that's more satisfying than when you find someone diagnosed with ADHD sitting calmly next to an Autistic kid by the campfire singing old songs of their own will and volition (for more than 5 minutes..!)

Now, we're racking our brains for things to do with the kids during the periods when there are no formal activities, and in the evenings. I wondered if any of you had some suggestions? I know it's a bit hypocritical when we're saying that we want these kids to feel trusted and responsible, but I don't think anything to do with knife work would be allowed, and I'm a little bit concerned that teaching them how to light fires would mean the firey destruction of most of Southern Essex. Perhaps a gentle easing in to the easy country life - I thought maybe a foraging challenge? Give them some pictures of leaves/plants with a description of what they're used for then send them to go and find them?

Also, if anyone else fancies lending a hand, let me know - they're always looking for volunteers. The camp runs on the weekends of the 10th and 17th of September. If you want to volunteer some of your time to run an activity session, I'm sure you'd be welcomed with open arms. If you want to spend the whole weekend with a group of the kids as a mentor, you'll have to go through a week of training between those dates and they'll run you through a CRB check, so you'll be ready for anything. It really is very rewarding.

More information can be found here:
Essex Experience
For official enquiries, contact Claire Fielder at the address given on that page.

Cheers all,
Neil

[Pignut]

As an explorer scout leader I find that our group love a session of Bivvi building!

(As long as your campsite has enough materials to hand)

[maverick]

what an wonderfull idea good luck.
I was fostered during my youth and went on many camping and outdoor activities which was a great escape for me from the every day challenges of being a moody teenager with a chip. this escapism still is with me today and I take every chance to get back out into the woods (I even work outdoors) I take my son and a couple of his friends out regular as we live in a city. I have noticed that the kids I take go home with a sense of achievment and knock my door for days afterwards asking when we are going again.

So please keep up the good work it changed my life and I hope it will change many others.

I'm a little bit concerned that teaching them how to light fires would mean the firey destruction of most of Southern Essex.

I don't think this would be the case as they can light a fire easily with lighters if they really wanted to. just imagine the pride and sense of achievment these kids would get from lighting there first bow drill fire. I'm 36 and jumbed around punching the sky like a ten year old when I first achieved it. the other bonus of teaching fire skills is respect of what it can achieve not what it can destroy

Just my pennies worth
M

[Toddy]

[QUOTE Maverick ......the other bonus of teaching fire skills is respect of what it can achieve not what it can destroy

Just my pennies worth
M[/QUOTE]

I wholeheartedly agree. Teach them to use fire responsibly, it's a defining skill of humanity in many ways, and by giving them that understanding I have yet to find it abused. The art of firelighting also teaches patience and endeavour.....they have to find, prepare and keep in good order their fire kit if they want it to work.
Surprisingly we found that a personal journal also gives a focus for these kids, even if all they are writing and illustrating is the words of the latest song running through their heads, it becomes an aide memoire of, ..."use xxxxxx for xxxx, but xxx will do".
Best wishes with it all,
Toddy

[ilovemybed]

what an wonderfull idea good luck...

I don't think this would be the case as they can light a fire easily with lighters if they really wanted to. just imagine the pride and sense of achievment these kids would get from lighting there first bow drill fire. I'm 36 and jumbed around punching the sky like a ten year old when I first achieved it. the other bonus of teaching fire skills is respect of what it can achieve not what it can destroy

Just my pennies worth
M...

Thanks Maverick. Good to hear you're passing it on to the next generation!
A friction firelighting session is a good idea. I had been thinking more about teaching the shapes and styles of camp fire, and how to get one going, rather than teaching them how to get the ember in the first place. Better not make it too easy, so they'll be tired and more willing to go to bed at the right time!

I'd better go and practice my own friction firelighting skills then, or there'll be an embarrassing incident like on Ray's program, where he ended up teaching the natives

Of course you're right about teaching them properly, and I would, given smaller groups, but when you've got 15 adolescents all a bit over excited they can sometimes work each other into a frenzy. Also not all of them get on - sometimes they can bring their school conflicts with them, and some have a history of 'incorrect' knife use already...

Keep on Keepin' on,
Neil

[nipper]

Morning all

I agree with Maverick.

Although I am not an official Explorer leader I am regularly drafted in to teach different bushcraft skills, and friction firelighting is a big favorite. Also another favorite is game preparation. I demonstrate with a rabbit and pidgeon and then I let them try.

With the latter subject you do need to make them aware of what is involved before you start your butchery course but must of the time they are facinated by the subject. It also takes them out of this sterile world that we live in, which leads them to believe that chickens were born in cling film instead of feathers.

How about preparing game followed by bannock making. Then they can do some friction firelighting and finally they could cook their game over there newly aquired firelighting skills.

Sounds like a very rewarding day to me!

Nick

[moduser]

I applaud programmes that work with young people that have problems and I know from experience that they can have a real benificial impact on individuals.

However it strikes me that so many young people are missing out on these experiences because they are well behaved, adjusted individuals. One can argue that there are plenty of organisations such as Scouts (which I'm involved with) Boys Brigade, Army Cadets etc that can offer similar experiences but not everyone wants to join an organised group. There is a lot of negative stigma and peer pressure in schools if you are known as a member, which does not help.

It's almost as if you get to do lots of cool stuff if you are bad and no reward if you are good.

This just seems like an injustice to me.

sorry if that comes across as a rant but.........

[maverick]

moduser you have some relavant pionts which often comes up in this type of discution (can't spell today lol) but not all the kids are bad. like myself alot of children cannot help the situation they are in, kids who are good tend to come from good backgrounds and have a normal family life and can do what ever they like when the whim takes them. They also take every day life for granted food on the table, loving parents holidays and some where to call home. However the kids from broken backgrounds etc never get the opotunity to experience this and day to day life is a constant up hill struggle so a couple of days in the woods is a welcome break which I feel the regular child would not appreciate half as much.

just my seconds penny worth
M

[ilovemybed]

I applaud programmes that work with young people that have problems and I know from experience that they can have a real benificial impact on individuals.

However it strikes me that so many young people are missing out on these experiences because they are well behaved, adjusted individuals..

Once, a school got the wrong end of the stick and sent a group of well behaved over-achievers. They didn't know what hit them!

It's true, there is a stigma in some places about being involved in youth groups, but better to have the opportunity and be laughed at by the ignorant, than not to have the opportunity at all. After all, the last laugh is on those who choose not to get involved - they're the ones missing out.

[moduser]

Maverick I conceed your points. Quite a few of the cubs and scouts in the troops I work with are from single parent families, some on the poverty line and the kids are wonderful, mature individuals.

What I'm really getting at is that all young people, not just the deprived or troubled, would benefit from a greater understanding of their environment and self reliance skills.

Equally by mixing the social groups better understand and respect can be fostered. This usually happens when team work is needed to achieve set goals.

ilovemybed is correct that it is the ignorant that are the true loosers but peer pressure is a terrible thing especially when it includes bullying from the truely ignorant.

[maverick]

What I'm really getting at is that all young people, not just the deprived or troubled, would benefit from a greater understanding of their environment and self reliance skills.

ditto

I made it my aim in life to try and enfuse everyone I know into understanding and apprieciating good old mother nature. I am amazed at the ignorance of people today I am talking adults as well. A couple of weeks ago I was giving 30 London lawyers a tour of the estate where I work when a magpie landed in front of us one of the guests asked what bird was it and somebody asked what was a badger was when I showed them a set

Back on topic
ilovemybed I usually find with hyper children that if I just let them get on with what ever they want to do the first day within reason of course or organise a energetic event such as wood football (ever tried playing football in the woods great fun)
I also let them stay up half the night. The next day they are more subdued they are much more relaxed and there pace settles down to a more normal level this is when I start working with them properly. saying this I oly have a couple of kids from my area and I do not have a structure to follow so it's not a problem for me

[ilovemybed]

Wood Football is another good one! I wonder what Health and Safety would say

We've got a good few activities for them to take up most of the day, so more of these suggestions for half-hour or so time fillers would be great!

Last year, when the instructors for this thing were sat round the camp fire the night before the kids arrived, I got out my toasting fork and some lovely smoked streaky bacon.

I nearly fell off my chair when I had the following conversation with some of the other volunteer helpers!

"What are you doing?"

"I'm cooking bacon"

"What, on the FIRE??"

"Yes - isn't that what you normally use to cook things?" I asked.

"Eurg! ... .... What does it taste like?"

"You will be very surprised to hear that it tastes exactly like bacon."

Suffice to say, once those that could be persuaded had tried it (there were still a few who wouldn't!) I was stooped over that fire for the rest of the night, but for grown adults not to know that you can cook on an open fire is just astounding!

[Ogri the trog]

Guys,
I think your coming up with some commendable ideas here.
Personally, I'm in favour of Nipper's idea of making their own McBushy burgers, bannock, chicken/rabbit and fire making. Heck even if you were to prepare fish, it would be a sweet tasting suprise for some people.

All the best in your challenge.

Ogri the trog

[Spacemonkey]

How about a spot of pioneering? In the scouts as a nipper, we would get pioneering exercises as team building exercises, involving lashing huge wooden poles together to build big stuff. Can't remember for the life of me what it was though! Bloody good fun it was too.

[TwoFourAlpha]

What about what used to be called 'Command Tasks' when I was in the mob?

You know the idea..
"Here's two planks, three buckets, a bit of hairy string and a crocodile infested river. You have 20 minutes to get to the other side. You. You're in charge. Clock starts....now."

Improvised materials may be the order of the day.

[spamel]

They're still called command tasks, and they are still absolutely ridiculous!! Don't forget, whatever you use has to get to the other side and it's not allowed to touch the floor or els it will get contaminated by the nuclear spillage from the bomb that was in the aircraft that crashed there several days ago!!

Oh really!! Crocodiles, contaminated waste, 300 foot deep ravines and rabid monkeys! If it is so bloody dangerous here, why don't we go somewhere else?!!

[NickBristol]

Oh really!! Crocodiles, contaminated waste, 300 foot deep ravines and rabid monkeys! If it is so bloody dangerous here, why don't we go somewhere else?!!

Because we always believed it when we were told that there was a case of beer for the first team across....

[ilovemybed]

All good ideas guys, thanks!
We've now got plenty of things for the major activities for both days:
We have abseiling, climbing, canoeing, go-karting, archery, campfire cooking, circus skills, craft workshops, outdoor curling (?!) cup stacking (apparently there's a world championships in it!).

I wonder if you can think of little things that don't take much resources but will keep them occupied for small periods of time during the early evenings and that are a little less intensive on the instructors (because we're looking after them 24/7 and we need a rest too!)

I'm liking Woodland Football the best so far!

Cheers,
Neil

[Hedgehog]

A game of Aunt Sally or similar would be easy to set up, though I guess throwing bits of wood may be a bad idea.

[Ogri the trog]

How about a game of "Keeper Of The Keys",
One lad is blindfolded and sits in the wood/field etc, in front of him is a bucket or tray with a bunch of keys on it. The rest of the group are numbered, keeper calls a number. That number has then got to try to collect the keys and make it to another destination without being detected. If the keeper thinks he has heard the "thief" he can call and point - its is then up to the referees to say "in" or "out".
It gets the youngsters using their senses other than sight to detect the intruder.
It can go on for ages until the group realise that if they all shout and yell, the thief can run in a grab the keys unnoticed!

I used to enjoy the pioneering exercises as well, that shark infested custard was fearsome stuff.

ATB

Ogri the trog

[Justin Time]

add a water pistol (or one of those big ones) to the " Keeper of the Keys "exercise and you get an extra element of fun!

How about a stalking in the dark exercise, two teams trying to capture the other's flag. You'd have to be pretty sure there was no fisticuffs likely but great fun, and again helps people tune into their other senses. We had great fun with this on a Mods get togerther a year or so ago.

Kim's game?

[Madhouse]

well being the army dweeb that i am i would suggest a 24H paintball exercise, you give the kids a breif to say defend a clearing in the woods, in the 24 hours they have to build their own shelter, cook food and ofcourse defend the clearing, it could be some of the ADULT STAFF v the kids and some mentors. It would really bring them together as a team and certainly wear them out.

However maybe charvs with paintball guns isnt a good idea, its like giving
Osama Bin-Laden a nuke, it would have to be well controled in order to stop them from turning on the fat kid.

...maybe not such a good idea but it could be done... and they would enjoy it.

[Andy]

apart from the fat kid of course (who makes an easy target)

[Spacemonkey]

But look on the bright side-with all the running away the fat kid would lose some poundage...

[ilovemybed]

Well, it's time to resurrect this thread because we're doing it all over again!

We've got a lot of new members here since last time, and lots of the longer standing members (including me!) have picked up some new tricks, so again I'm looking for ideas to give these kids something to do.

We have all the big activities arranged already so I'd like to ask: Do any of you have any suggestions for little bits and pieces we can have on standby in case the weather turns nasty? These kids will be very poorly prepared, wearing nylon tracksuits and trainers and the like, so I simply can't make them brave the weather. I'm not kidding when I say that some of the girls will dress like they're going to a nightclub when they're actually about to go canoeing or abseiling (3" diameter hoop earrings while scaling a climbing wall, anyone? ! )

We will have a large Marquee for use in the bad weather so I'm trying to find things that are suitable for doing in there.

I'm thinking of showing them firecraft including the Fire Drill and maybe a brief bit of info on Tree and Plant ID. I might find a place in the woods by the camp where I can put up the hex fly and talk them through a simple hammock/tarp camping setup while relatively sheltered. Could also demonstrate some simple trapping - rabbit and squirrel snares for instance.

I'm also thinking of getting hold of some trout or similar so I can show them gutting and filleting. Not sure where I could get rabbit or pigeon from. Any hunters in Essex/Suffolk likely to have some spare, relatively fresh ones available for the weekend of the 8th Sept ? I'll put up a separate post about that, thinking about it...

Thanks in advance!

Neil

[Tony]

How about getting some cheap tarps, rope, pegs and poles and getting them in small groups to put them up? They could gain an awareness of wind direction etc for pitching and also it would be hands on with a benefit to them.

Get them making cordage?

If you can they could dig for water!

Basic first aid, knots, communication skills (have some blindfolded and others telling them where to go, this would work well in the woods)
Stalking games
Bark rubbing
navigation, they could make mud maps etc

[Marts]

Whatever you do don't teach them how to make those little whistles Mors was making at the moot

[Ratbag]

If you're not doing it already, don't forget to get them to wash their hands using the natural soap in horsechestnut leaves. Fantastic!

Rat

[leon-1]

You were talking about things to do in the evening around the campfire??

If so give them projects, get them making things even if it is a key fob or lanyards made from paracord on a split ring. At the end of it they will have something tangible as a reminder of what they were doing when they get home.

If they have never done it you can teach them splicing, not an everyday skill, but a skill that can still be very handy none the less.

[falling rain]

Teach them to stalk and move quietly through the woods. Then in the evening or after dark have 2 of the group with super duper water blasters and they must hunt the rest. Start them at the top of the woods and place a candle lantern or torch a few hundred yards down the bottom of the woods. They'll have to use their newly learnt stalking skills to get to the lantern without getting blasted with water. Place a bell next to the lamp and whoever rings the bell is safe and cannot be blatted. I've played this with the ATC kids and they absolutley love it, and it keeps them occupied instead of just sitting round the fire which make them bored. I taught some really bad lads some bushcraft a few months ago - tags, jail sentences pending, the works. It was very hard work and I had to be carefull what I said, and also their attention span was extremely short. Hat off to you for this