EEC banning herbal medicines

[Toddy]

I agree with British Red and Locum on this
Thing is though, you need to know the herbs *and* yourself or the person you are helping for them to work to their full advantage.

Many of the potions of the pharmacy are, "one size fits most folks okay", while herbal medicine, good herbal medicine, should be tailored to the individual, at that point in their life.

But, we've gotten used to the pharmacy and it's pills and are trying to use herbal ones in the same fashion.
As far as I can see, all these new rules will do is to ensure that the same standards of preparation, and measurements and labelling of ingredients, is adhered to, between the two systems.

Grow your own

On that note, anyone want some aloe vera? mine's gone nuclear again and is rapidly approaching triffid scale on the windowsill A tiny wee rooted cutting will grow quite happily in some moist compost and thrive. I grow mine on kitchen and bathroom windowsills which don't get much Sun, and they still outgrow the pots on a regular basis. Good for sunburn, itchy skin, dry skin, insect bites, eczema and even chickenpox Safe for children, the elderly, and around pets too.

Feverfew grows like a weed once you have it established. Pretty white daisy like flowers shed innumerable seeds. I can even find enough leaves to use in Winter in my cold wet garden. Seedlings available in a couple of months if the weather stays true to the season

cheers,
Toddy

[British Red]

Bloody feverfew - its as bad as californian poppy for self seeding. Balm does it to me too.....and fennel

I'd love an aloe vera if you can hang onto it till I build the greenhouses in April?

Gome pignut seeds to try if you want sawps? Or valerian seed....or....

[sandsnakes]

Choice is the key issue.

Many herbs are helpful in the symptoms of the common cold. Should we send those with the common cold to flood the NHS? if you read Pubmed.com, a website for medical research, you will find all manner of things, including herbs that are helpful for prostate inflamation. There is a mass of scientific reseach that supports the traditional use of herbal medicine.

Having said this, if its in a tin etc, it should contain what is stated on the label, just like other things should.

But blanket bans are sensless and infringe choice. As for science, in the 80's it was discoved that the mouldy grain feed to camels by camel herders contained naturally occuring tetracycline. They gave the grain as a two thousand year old remedy for gut infections. Since the 1950's the herders were told that they were ignorant and should use antibiotis in a capsule, which were ironically not as effective due to delivery method.

One mans tradition is another mans undiscoved science.

Things that have been known and proved- the world is flat
Medically proven therapy of bleeding people made them healthier when ill.
Mercury is a longevity drug.
You lose most of your body heat through your head.

A military study many years ago tested the loss of temperature in soldiers when exposed to very cold temperatures. They found rapid heat loss in the head – and so the idea that we lose heat through our heads was born. But what they didn’t tell you was that the soldiers were fully clothed except for their heads. This obviously skews the statistics considerably. The fact is, completely naked, you lose approximately 10% of your body heat through the head – the other 90% is lost via the other parts of your body.


the list is endless and a science gets more subtle, ever changing.

[British Red]

There is no blanket ban. If you prepare something as a medicine, and sell it as a medicine, then it is treated as a medicine.

If you sell ginseng as ginseng and it contains ginseng, no problem.

If you buy valerian, st Johns Wort or feverfew and that is all they contain, again, no problem.

Once you calim medical properties, you need to back up your claim (anyone think that fraudulent claims are okay?)

If you make a product, you have to list the ingredients (same as all ingested products - anyone think arsenic is okay in a tablet?)

No-one is stopping people growing or using herbs. They are stopping unproven and farudulent claims and dangerous ingedients.

I am not anti herb. Nothing could be further from the truth. Anyone local is welcome to come and use my herbarium


Herbarium by British Red, on Flickr

Responsible people do not make inflated claims or use dangerous ingredients. Thats what this legislation is about.

Red

[Frogo]

I use both Herbal and Homoeopathic remedies and will continue as they have worked for me..

[Toddy]

Bloody feverfew - its as bad as californian poppy for self seeding. Balm does it to me too.....and fennel

I'd love an aloe vera if you can hang onto it till I build the greenhouses in April?

Gome pignut seeds to try if you want sawps? Or valerian seed....or....

No bother, just let me know when you want a couple of bits. I've got both varieties so there'll be some of each available for you
I'd love some Valerian seed, and instructions for setting them properly. I have no joy with it and have to resort to the roots a friend grows on a wild plot.

I have masses of weld (reseda luteola) growing if you would like to add dye plants to your herbs ? I've got potted seedlings in the greenhouse (pigeons devour them if they can get to them outside ) and Typha minima that needs thinned out in the pond. It has been producing the most lovely pollen rich heads Excellent golden colour in breads and rich in protein.
Small enough to thrive in a big bucket too
I meant to offer meadowsweet flourish to you before. I have loads from this last years gathering; any use ?

cheers,
Toddy

[British Red]

Meadowsweet I'm good - thanks.

Why don't I see if the Valerian takes well here (last years were transplants) and send you some seedlings ready for planting out?

Could I offer you a forty foot container of horse radish? Or Himilayan Balsam? The balsam here is insane - 500 yard drifts of purple flowers!

[Toddy]

A wee bit of growable horseradish would be appreciated.....will the slugs devour it though? I keep vulnerable plants in pots with traps, but that leaves them a bit vulnerable to hard frosts.

The Himalayan Balsam is best caught and roasted and eaten or keep some hens, they'll guzzle every seed they can get to.
Seriously swipe a kids fishing net through the heads to catch loads of seed and just toast and munch.
Otherwise the damned stuff is a blight regardless of how pretty it is.

cheers,
Toddy

[twisted firestarter]

Could I offer you a forty foot container of horse radish? Or Himilayan Balsam? The balsam here is insane - 500 yard drifts of purple flowers!

Himalayan balsam seeds taste lovely, similar to walnut...

http://www.eatweeds.co.uk/himalayan-...d-curry-recipe

[British Red]

Balsam I rip it out on sight - it is evil stuff. Had 500+ per acre on my land - rip and burn is the only way (before it sets seed)

I'll get you all the horse radish you want Mary - but please pot grow. Its much much worse than mint.

[locum76]

Mary:

Despite Red's kind offer I could swap you Aloe Vera for Horseradish when you visit the farm. The stuff has gone feral here.

Rob

[Toddy]

Now that simplifies things

I guess I really do need to grow the stuff in a pot then ?

and look out recipes too by the sounds of it

atb,
M

[British Red]

...and prepare it outdoors!


Grating horse radish is an evil task ...makes your eyes stream! Lovely condiment though....our native "hot stuff"....grated with some sour cream and lemon juice and spread on strong cheddar sandwiches....mmm

[Toddy]

Thank you for the warning I'll be careful. Are the leaves edible and tasty ?

I mind my Granny making wee jars of hot, salty pickle from horseradish root. I'm sure it was just sliced almost paper thin.
My Grandpa liked the stuff with egg on a lunchtime sandwich.
I'll need to see if she ever wrote down the recipe.

cheers,
M

[zarkwon]

I use both Herbal and Homoeopathic remedies and will continue as they have worked for me..

I'm with Rik, quackery! An alternative remedy which has been proven to work is medicine! Homeopathic remedies??? Now you're taking the mick aren't you? They have not one bit of scientific credibility. There is no active ingredient and the basic idea behind it is preposterous. What's wrong with going to the doctors, I don't get it? You'll be telling us about the virtues of acupuncture or chiropractic and the dangers of getting your kids vaccinated next. The reason 'Big Pharma' charges a lot for some medicines is the cost to them for R@D and to get products to market through the strict testing schedule. The scientific method is the best tool we have for examining the world around us. If you are selling something which is untested or unproven by this tool then I am not putting it in my body or that of my child. If we are ill we should have the most effective cure as determined by double blind testing and the use of the scientific method. Anything else is madness.

[Graham_S]

I've always been amused by the central concept of homeopathy.
"The memory of water"
What makes the water remember the particles of whatever active ingredient it has been in it, but forget all the bodily wastes that have been through it.
Snake oil, the lot of it.

[British Red]

Thank you for the warning I'll be careful. Are the leaves edible and tasty ?

I mind my Granny making wee jars of hot, salty pickle from horseradish root. I'm sure it was just sliced almost paper thin.
My Grandpa liked the stuff with egg on a lunchtime sandwich.
I'll need to see if she ever wrote down the recipe.

cheers,
M

Not tried the top growth - you don't get that much - just miles of rope like root. It is lovely pickled in white vinegar (although I grate). The hardness of the root when twined is another reason to pot grow - just dump the pot out at harvest time. Put a few root pieces in a new pot and process the rest.

I carefully brought some from Hampshire - then looked in the dyke opposite - where the worlds supply grows wild

[Tadpole]

I'm with Rik, quackery! An alternative remedy which has been proven to work is medicine! Homeopathic remedies??? Now you're taking the mick aren't you? They have not one bit of scientific credibility. There is no active ingredient and the basic idea behind it is preposterous. What's wrong with going to the doctors, I don't get it? You'll be telling us about the virtues of acupuncture or chiropractic and the dangers of getting your kids vaccinated next. The reason 'Big Pharma' charges a lot for some medicines is the cost to them for R@D and to get products to market through the strict testing schedule. The scientific method is the best tool we have for examining the world around us. If you are selling something which is untested or unproven by this tool then I am not putting it in my body or that of my child. If we are ill we should have the most effective cure as determined by double blind testing and the use of the scientific method. Anything else is madness.

I've always been amused by the central concept of homeopathy.
"The memory of water"
What makes the water remember the particles of whatever active ingredient it has been in it, but forget all the bodily wastes that have been through it.
Snake oil, the lot of it.

Much as I hate to do this, but there is a growing body of research that supports some homeopathic medicines link

[zarkwon]

The huffington post? Surprise surprise! A publisher well known in the realms of skepticism for publishing such nonsense.
Counter with this. It's what you should be reading anyway http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2081
Or this http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009...gnier-for.html

[Tadpole]

The huffington post? Surprise surprise! A publisher well known in the realms of skepticism for publishing such nonsense.

Were it not the 15 or so decent links from the 25 that were included at the bottom of that page I'd agree, but even the BMJ and Lancet are not dissmissing it out of hand, so I don't see why any reasonable person would just because it is in the Huff'

[zarkwon]

Not just because it's in the "Huff" (although that is a big flashing warning to me) but because it is preposterous and flies in the face of scientific thinking since the enlightenment. As well as the fact that the paper is not even written properly. When it's repeated by someone capable of getting it into a proper peer reviewed publication I'll start to pay attention. I'm not holding my breath.
P.s. It's not even about homeopathy anyway.

[Mikey P]

From the look of this, it seems that all substances with a claimed medicinal property, that are to be sold on the basis of this medicinal property, must prove that it actually works! This is merely evidence-based techniques. It means that everyone is on the same playing field, does it not?

However, I suspect that the providers of the herbal medicines will not have the money and resources to put their products through the strict testing required to show that it is safe for use.

I guess that, if you really want the stuff you should learn to make your own, as you are exempt from legislation if it's only for personal use.

[Graham_S]

I see no problem with a company being required to say what is in the product they sell, and that it does what they claim.

[myotis]

I've always been amused by the central concept of homeopathy.
"The memory of water"
What makes the water remember the particles of whatever active ingredient it has been in it, but forget all the bodily wastes that have been through it.
Snake oil, the lot of it.

The memory of water isn't the central concept, the central concept is based purely on observational studies where diluted medicine seemed to be more effective than the more concentrated doses, With effectiveness increasing the more you diluted them. I don't think any homoeopath pretends to know how this might be actually working,

The two theories are the like cure like one, where the a weak dose of something "some how " stimulates the bodies natural response to a disease, and the limited research into this water memory business, suggesting another possible part in the how it works story. But this is just put forward as a possible part of an essentially unknown mechanism.

http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/re...ight_work.html

Graham

[demographic]

I see no problem with a company being required to say what is in the product they sell, and that it does what they claim.

My take exactly. +1

[demographic]

The memory of water isn't the central concept, the central concept is based purely on observational studies where diluted medicine seemed to be more effective than the more concentrated doses, With effectiveness increasing the more you diluted them. I don't think any homoeopath pretends to know how this might be actually working,

The two theories are the like cure like one, where the a weak dose of something "some how " stimulates the bodies natural response to a disease, and the limited research into this water memory business, suggesting another possible part in the how it works story. But this is just put forward as a possible part of an essentially unknown mechanism.

http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/re...ight_work.html

Graham

Err, that's all the sort of thing this legislation is designed to tighten up on. If it goes to plan there should be less snakeoil on the market and suckers won't be duped into forking out cash for "medicines" that are of no more value than placebos.

[myotis]

Err, that's all the sort of thing this legislation is designed to tighten up on. If it goes to plan there should be less snakeoil on the market and suckers won't be duped into forking out cash for "medicines" that are of no more value than placebos.

Not sure I follow your point, the point I was making is that whether water has or has not got a memory is not a central concept to homoeopathy, and irrelevant to the argument as to whether it works or doesn't work.

Just because we can't explain how something works isn't evidence of it not working.

Graham

[Andy BB]

Be interested to see any genuine double-blind, statistically valid tests on these.

[myotis]

Be interested to see any genuine double-blind, statistically valid tests on these.

A starting point would be http://www.facultyofhomeopathy.org/research/

Not that you can draw any conclusions from them, well maybe that depends on what you believe in the first place

"Between 1950 and 2009, 142 randomised controlled trials (RCTs) in homeopathy have been reported. This represents research in 74 different medical conditions. Of these 142 trials, 63 were positive, 11 negative and 68 non-conclusive. "

Graham

[durulz]

Nurse! Nurse! I've had an aneurism - quickly pass me a poultice of marjoram, nettles and honey!