EEC banning herbal medicines

[sandsnakes]

Sad but true,

the EEC is banning most traditional herbal medicines.

Do we detect a certain rodentine odour of brown envelopes, back handers and corporate greed, surely not! It is well know fact that legislators when advised by those with corporate interests are are a fair and honest breed.

Sandsnakes


http://www.care2.com/causes/real-foo...uropean-union/

[Tadpole]

Or they may be reacting to the wants and the need of the people who want “herbal medicine” to be at the very least safe to use and a consistent product. Not like the majority of herbal junk that is on sale at the moment. It’s not like they are asking the impossible like telling the herbal companies to prove that it works, they just want it to be safe to use, and to have in the tin what it says on the tin.

[British Red]

What tadpole said. They aren't banning anything other than unproven claims to be medicine and questionable safety. Nothing prevents anyone doing what I do and preparing their own herbals

[jaduncan]

'Traditional' medicines with provable claims are known as 'medicines'. These may still be sold. One may no longer sell pills that claim to cure cancer without proving it, no.

[Andy BB]

Oh no - where am I going to get my tiger-bone cure-all from now?

[PaulSanderson]

Oh no - where am I going to get my tiger-bone cure-all from now?

...since when has Tiger-Bone been herbal???!! Did i miss something in school?

I think it is sad for the Herbal Medicine industry...a lot of people use these kinds of medicines, both those that are proven and those that are not. This is just another way by which the government can control, manipulate and inevitably earn a shed load of cash from the plebs.

Admittedly, control of substances that claim to be one-pill-cure-it-alls needs to be tightenes, but one has to wonder how much "effective" herbal medicine is going to be lost in this process. In addition, I dare say future R&D into the use of herbals could be curtailed as a result. Less expenditure for the big pharmas, more profit for them too...

[RonW]

The power of the farmaceutical industries.....

The only reason is securing their profits!

[Baggy]

Or they may be reacting to the wants and the need of the people who want “herbal medicine” to be at the very least safe to use and a consistent product. Not like the majority of herbal junk that is on sale at the moment. It’s not like they are asking the impossible like telling the herbal companies to prove that it works, they just want it to be safe to use, and to have in the tin what it says on the tin.

Or they could keep their noses out and let people make their own choice.

[gregorach]

What tadpole said. They aren't banning anything other than unproven claims to be medicine and questionable safety. Nothing prevents anyone doing what I do and preparing their own herbals

As far as I understand it, they're not even banning the unproven medicinal claims. You just have to be able to prove that it's (a) what you say it is, and (b) not actively dangerous when used as directed, if you want to sell it for profit. Hardly seems like a bad thing to me. Does anyone really want the option of buying random mislabelled poisons? (Yes, I'm looking at you, arsenic contaminated Ayurvedic "medicines"!)

Oh - and the EEC? What decade is this? It hasn't been the EEC since 1993.

[gregorach]

Or they could keep their noses out and let people make their own choice.

How can you make your own choice if you don't even know what's actually in the product you're choosing?

[Baggy]

Hiya

How can you make your own choice if you don't even know what's actually in the product you're choosing?

Choose a qualified herbalist (5 years training) and trust them, a bit like we do with doctors.
Mind you, there were over a 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, properly prescribed, adverse effects of medications in the USA last year

[Baggy]

Hiya

) not actively dangerous when used as directed, if you want to sell it for profit.

Ah a tad diffrent to a full ban then.

[British Red]

Nobody has banned anything - they just have to follow the same rules as similar products.

[twisted firestarter]

Lets not forget that many of todays best selling drugs originated from herbal remedies (aspirin for example) and in many cases the only difference being they are now synthesized and line the pockets of huge pharma companies. I was scratching around to try and find how much it costs to obtain a licence for a single herb which may make up part of a herbal remedy and the figure I found was between £80,000 and £120,000

[Richie'66]

They'll be burning witches at the stake next.......................... ........

Honestly , whatever next. They should just leave us alone.
Don't worry , I have no need for any medicines whatsoever I live in a bubble.

[gregorach]

Choose a qualified herbalist (5 years training) and trust them, a bit like we do with doctors.

Provided they're doing their jobs properly, they will have no problems at all under these rules. It's only people selling mislabelled, poison-contaminated remedies that will be affected.

Read the link I gave above about contaminated Ayurvedic remedies. They weren't sold with clear labelling saying "warning: this product contains dangerous levels of lead, mercury and arsenic" - they were sold as safe, natural herbal remedies. (Bonus irony points for the fact that worries about exactly these sorts of "toxins" are one of the main reasons people go for this sort of thing in the first place.)

I really don't understand what people have against anti-adulteration laws. Remember the "poison milk" scandal? That's the sort of thing we're talking about here.

[Tadpole]

Lets not forget that many of todays best selling drugs originated from herbal remedies (aspirin for example) and in many cases the only difference being they are now synthesized and line the pockets of huge pharma companies. I was scratching around to try and find how much it costs to obtain a licence for a single herb which may make up part of a herbal remedy and the figure I found was between £80,000 and £120,000

Supposedly there are 1.5 million people taking St. John’s wart, in the UK ( 2008 Mintel) at about 18p –20p per tab per day that is a lot of money( £270,000 per day)

[Andy BB]

Hmmm. Balance in all things, people! Next time you take you anti-malarial, tetanus or pre-rabies pills/shots, or need exotic drugs to fight cancer or gangrene or AIDS etc, just be grateful that the pharmaceutical companies made enough money to plough into their development and production, not to mention the huge costs involved in actually obtaining governmental approval over its safety and dosage levels. And also remember that only a couple of percent of the drugs initially developed ever make it to the market-place in the first place.

[wattsy]

Hmmm. Balance in all things, people! Next time you take you anti-malarial, tetanus or pre-rabies pills/shots, or need exotic drugs to fight cancer or gangrene or AIDS etc, just be grateful that the pharmaceutical companies made enough money to plough into their development and production, not to mention the huge costs involved in actually obtaining governmental approval over its safety and dosage levels. And also remember that only a couple of percent of the drugs initially developed ever make it to the market-place in the first place.

buy that man a drink i get tired of hearing people rabbiting on about the 'evil pharmaceutical companies only out to make money' of course they want to make money its a business not a charity but the drugs they make work or they wouldn't sell any.

[rik_uk3]

The vast majority of herbal remedies aren't worth the bottle they come in so for me this is a good move. Herbal remedy = quackery to be honest the majority of the time. Good working herbal remedies often become the real deal when they are clinically proven and where dosage and quality are maintained . Lets hope they ban pee pot courses in psychotherapy and counselling next.

[resnikov]

Hmmm. Balance in all things, people! Next time you take you anti-malarial, tetanus or pre-rabies pills/shots, or need exotic drugs to fight cancer or gangrene or AIDS etc, just be grateful that the pharmaceutical companies made enough money to plough into their development and production, not to mention the huge costs involved in actually obtaining governmental approval over its safety and dosage levels. And also remember that only a couple of percent of the drugs initially developed ever make it to the market-place in the first place.

The vast majority of herbal remedies aren't worth the bottle they come in so for me this is a good move. Herbal remedy = quackery to be honest the majority of the time. Good working herbal remedies often become the real deal when they are clinically proven and where dosage and quality are maintained . Lets hope they ban pee pot courses in psychotherapy and counselling next.

Well said both of you, its good to hear common sense.

[Baggy]

Hiya

The vast majority of herbal remedies aren't worth the bottle they come in so for me this is a good move.

If we are discussing Herbalism generally...

Why, I like to make my own choices. You may not like them so don't buy them, I don't buy them ( I do make some) but it should be my choice.

Herbal remedy = quackery to be honest the majority of the time.

There are plenty who will disagree and they should have the choice

Good working herbal remedies often become the real deal when they are clinically proven and where dosage and quality are maintained .

Hmmm, ok white willow bark was utilised/copied by science as Aspirin, but white willow bark does not cause stomach bleeding like aspirin often does.
I like you have some faith in drugs but I am aware that they killed over a million people in ten years in the USA.

[PaulSanderson]

The vast majority of herbal remedies aren't worth the bottle they come in so for me this is a good move. Herbal remedy = quackery to be honest the majority of the time.

I think thats a bold statement indeed. Whilst not ALL herbal remedies have the required scientific evidence to substantiate claims, what about the likes of:

Aloe Vera - Proven to help heal burns etc

Echinacea - A popular herb used primarily to reduce the symptoms and duration of the common cold and flu and to alleviate the symptoms associated with them, such as sore throat (pharyngitis), cough, and fever.

Feverfew - Used to treat migraines and heaches. It works by reducing the body's production of prostaglandins.

These are all scientifically proven to work. We're not talking bubbling potions and pills, but this isnt just mumbo jumbo. I understand Rik_uk3 you are talking about the "majority" of the time, but i could rattle off a list of proven remedies.

Overall, i think regulation could be a good thing. However, are people going to suffer in the long run? Possibly. That being said, if people are taking pills and potions and they dont know whats in them, well then be it on their head. A little homework goes a long way....

[Baggy]

Hiya

That's the sort of thing we're talking about here.

I think this thread turned into two conversations, one of which seems to anti herbalism and anti choice. The other being stop "people selling mislabelled, poison-contaminated remedies" which of course makes sense.

[rik_uk3]

I think thats a bold statement indeed. Whilst not ALL herbal remedies have the required scientific evidence to substantiate claims, what about the likes of:

Aloe Vera - Proven to help heal burns etc

Echinacea - A popular herb used primarily to reduce the symptoms and duration of the common cold and flu and to alleviate the symptoms associated with them, such as sore throat (pharyngitis), cough, and fever.

Feverfew - Used to treat migraines and heaches. It works by reducing the body's production of prostaglandins.

These are all scientifically proven to work. We're not talking bubbling potions and pills, but this isnt just mumbo jumbo. I understand Rik_uk3 you are talking about the "majority" of the time, but i could rattle off a list of proven remedies.

Overall, i think regulation could be a good thing. However, are people going to suffer in the long run? Possibly. That being said, if people are taking pills and potions and they dont know whats in them, well then be it on their head. A little homework goes a long way....

Great, so my GP will prescribe them as drug of choice as they work so well and based on clinical evidence ? In August I was on Morphine, any herbal remedy that will do the job as well? Aspirin, Paracetamol, Ibuprofen, simple proven over the counter medication that is of consistent quality, consistent dosage and clinically proven to work. Antibiotics work, how many people do they save a year? millions I suspect.

My three year old grandson has a fever, so cool him down and herbal tosh or cool him down and paracetamol and ibuprofen? Guess which I rely on because they work. I don't want to see anyone suffer because of some deluded idea that a potion or lotion knocked up in the kitchen or workshop will do the job, most often, they won't.

If your ill take what you want, your choice but please don't expect all of us to have faith in herbalism, it just don't work as well.

[British Red]

Whilst I agree with your sentiments Richard, I suspect that the herbal preparation that works as well as morphine is....morphine. All the opiates are preapred from papaver somniferum (the opium poppy). Likewise aspirin is based upon salicylic acid - derived from the salix tree (willow).

Many modern medicines are based upon plants, plant derivatives or synthetics emulating plant material.

I use herbs with proven, cliniclly trialled effects. That is my choice. I also agree that to sell them, any claims on their efiicacy must be clinically verified, the contents must be safe and tested.

That is all that the EU is demanding. No inflated claims, no poisons.

It is wrong to say herbs are more effective than they are. It is equally eroneous to claim that herbs cannot have a beneficial effect.

Red

[PaulSanderson]

Rik_uk3, all im saying is we shouldnt be ruling these things out...people should be able to have the choice. Im with you in that if there are symptoms that can be treated with more modern medicines then great, use them, I certainly do!....However, we shouldnt rule out the alternatives. I dare say not all herbal remedies can be recreated synthetically in a lab and not all ailments can be treated with synthetic medicines.

You ever chewed on willow to get rid of tooth ache? Works a damn sight faster than taking a pain killer, be it paracetamol or brufen, in a pill form. Or tried clove oil applied directly to the area effected? Thats not "herbal tosh", coz it works. This isnt a personal dig mate, im just saying there are alternatives, and we shouldnt rule them out. The morphine you were on is a naturally occuring substance, just needs extracting (although admittedly you couldve been taking synthetic stuff...works pretty much the same).

But to echo what you said, herbals cant compete with a lot of pharma-produced drugs. Hell, if I had some serious condition and was in pain I would take whatever it took to alleviate and cure the problem.

I think this is about choice, and having our eyes wide open to that choice.

[locum76]

Aloe Vera - Proven to help heal burns etc

Echinacea - A popular herb used primarily to reduce the symptoms and duration of the common cold and flu and to alleviate the symptoms associated with them, such as sore throat (pharyngitis), cough, and fever.

Feverfew - Used to treat migraines and heaches. It works by reducing the body's production of prostaglandins.

It's really easy to get those as live plants, and they don't even need any preparation - just sayin...

[locum76]

Aren't the majority of off the shelf herbal remedies made by giant pharmaceutical companies?

[PaulSanderson]

Aren't the majority of off the shelf herbal remedies made by giant pharmaceutical companies?

Yup...theyre just doing what you could do at home...in a lot of cases anyway...