TRACKS: Who dunnit?

[JonathanD]

I think we are all agreed then that this is a feline.........leopards & pumas are off the list......anyone know if the animal was walking or trotting, from the original photo it looks like the distance from heel to heel of the fore paws is around 15 cm (6") which I'm sorry to say fits an average moggie ambling along.......please tell me I'm wrong !....what was the distance from the back of a hind print to the front of foreprint ?, if you have these measurements, then it should't be too difficult to calculate it's size.......the prints are not very deep, but not knowing the nature of the mud, we can't be accurate about it's weight.

I've been sent these pictures of Lynx prints and tracks. I'm not saying mine are Lynx, but I'm listing them here as the first picture is a good match to how the tracks ran, and answers your question better than I can by just explaining it.



This second picture of a Lynx print looks like it could have been lifted right off the trail I was looking at, although there is nothing to suggest size.

[Bushwhacker]

I was going to put up some pictures of lynx tracks that I took, but didn't think it was quite the match. In my mind it appears to be something a bit smaller.

[Rumi]

Thank you for the clarification. I was playing devils advocate to some extent. Oxfordshire, and especificaly the rail line between Charlbury and Oxford is a bit of a hot spot for big cats. Saying that they are notoriously difficult to track, they can easily travel 30-40km in a day within their range and are masters of camouflage. The Oxfordshire Big Cats do well on game, muntjack, partridge, pheasant, pigeon, rabbits, ducks etc. occasionally during severe weather they take livestock. Their kills are very efficient, usually, on larger game, a single spinal puncture on the neck and claw punctures in the rib/chest area. Large prey is then eaten from the hind area forward. Bird kill areas are generally neat.

The UK big cats form the group of animals which may have been pets and subsequently escaped or set free which have ether bred with each other or other feral cats. they vary in colour from light gold through to black with and without markings.

Their tracks are notoriously rare, but the few that you find could be dog or cat, the presence or absence of claws can also be misleading.



Panther for instance do leave prints similar to dog, complete with claw marks..
Puma can leave claw marks but not always, and Im not certain why there would be claws or not
Leopards tend to not leave claw marks.

Something to look for when you are looking for big cats are scratch posts. these can be vertical or horizontal. Cats need to "pull" their claws to help them grow.

The print in the picture was taken after the animal passed...

[Rumi]

This is the area I got this track from:

http://wikimapia.org/18980085/BC-tracked-zone

Its the are marked tracked zone

[blacktimberwolf]

Thank you for the clarification. I was playing devils advocate to some extent. Oxfordshire, and especificaly the rail line between Charlbury and Oxford is a bit of a hot spot for big cats. Saying that they are notoriously difficult to track, they can easily travel 30-40km in a day within their range and are masters of camouflage. The Oxfordshire Big Cats do well on game, muntjack, partridge, pheasant, pigeon, rabbits, ducks etc. occasionally during severe weather they take livestock. Their kills are very efficient, usually, on larger game, a single spinal puncture on the neck and claw punctures in the rib/chest area. Large prey is then eaten from the hind area forward. Bird kill areas are generally neat.

The UK big cats form the group of animals which may have been pets and subsequently escaped or set free which have ether bred with each other or other feral cats. they vary in colour from light gold through to black with and without markings.

Their tracks are notoriously rare, but the few that you find could be dog or cat, the presence or absence of claws can also be misleading.



Panther for instance do leave prints similar to dog, complete with claw marks..
Puma can leave claw marks but not always, and Im not certain why there would be claws or not
Leopards tend to not leave claw marks.

Something to look for when you are looking for big cats are scratch posts. these can be vertical or horizontal. Cats need to "pull" their claws to help them grow.

The print in the picture was taken after the animal passed...

Can domestic cats breed with other species,? once off the menu that is, It's true big cats can leave claw marks but these are much more pointy, as if they were made by a large needle & clean away from the pads, where as in dog prints the claw marks are bolder, longer & usually attached or very near the pads.. .Good point about the scratch posts. but a cat would have to be on home ground as it's also a territorial mark & looking at every tree for a sign, you would have to be very motivated.

[Rumi]

Good point about the claws. with tracking I tend to find that once "in the zone" motivation will push me to find the other signs, with big cats smell is very important and we can get at least a bit of the scent spectrum.

Also railway lines seem to be very important for big cats.In my limited experience of them they seem to like the open stony ground that they offer. The area in the photograph is not much different to the countryside I know big cats to have been in before. theres lots to eat as well

[Bushwhacker]

yes they are, the lynx pic was a demo showing the general gait of the mystery beast.

I meant compared to the OP not your picture.

[BOD]

Yes I know many dogs could easily jump a metre high fence, but they would have stopped, looked for another way before finally jumping & the tracks show no sign of this, also a dog would take a run up rather than jump from a standing start, again no trace of this, everything about these tracks says cat....thanks for your comment.

My dingo hybrid will do a metre hedge from a standing start though she does look for another way . No run up.

[BOD]

Rumi,

Are you saying that this picture is of a cat print?

Unless the picture has been elongated it looks like a dog to me.

Thank you for the clarification. I was playing devils advocate to some extent. Oxfordshire, and especificaly the rail line between Charlbury and Oxford is a bit of a hot spot for big cats. Saying that they are notoriously difficult to track, they can easily travel 30-40km in a day within their range and are masters of camouflage. The Oxfordshire Big Cats do well on game, muntjack, partridge, pheasant, pigeon, rabbits, ducks etc. occasionally during severe weather they take livestock. Their kills are very efficient, usually, on larger game, a single spinal puncture on the neck and claw punctures in the rib/chest area. Large prey is then eaten from the hind area forward. Bird kill areas are generally neat.

The UK big cats form the group of animals which may have been pets and subsequently escaped or set free which have ether bred with each other or other feral cats. they vary in colour from light gold through to black with and without markings.

Their tracks are notoriously rare, but the few that you find could be dog or cat, the presence or absence of claws can also be misleading.



Panther for instance do leave prints similar to dog, complete with claw marks..
Puma can leave claw marks but not always, and Im not certain why there would be claws or not
Leopards tend to not leave claw marks.

Something to look for when you are looking for big cats are scratch posts. these can be vertical or horizontal. Cats need to "pull" their claws to help them grow.

The print in the picture was taken after the animal passed...

[blacktimberwolf]

My dingo hybrid will do a metre hedge from a standing start though she does look for another way . No run up.

There will be many examples of dogs jumping walls & fences from a standing start, but I was indicating that when a dog has a barrier before him, he will naturally, try to find another way past ( around , under of through it) a dog won't approach a fence then just leap over, without breaking stride ( unless he's chasing something that is )............& a pure dingo could jump a 2 metre fence, from a sitting start & with one paw tied behind his back.......................... ..................cheers.

[blacktimberwolf]

Rumi,

Are you saying that this picture is of a cat print?

Unless the picture has been elongated it looks like a dog to me.

Have to agree with you there, does look more like dog!

[JonathanD]

Have to agree with you there, does look more like dog!

You can see a claw mark on the outer digit too.

blacktimberwolf, why've you deleted all of your posts?

[blacktimberwolf]

You can see a claw mark on the outer digit too.

blacktimberwolf, why've you deleted all of your posts?

I've deleted because on re-reading them I sounded like a bloody know it all, & nobody likes a smart ****.......thanks for noticing..it won't stop me following the story or adding new posts.......................ch eers.

[JonathanD]

I've deleted because on re-reading them I sounded like a bloody know it all, & nobody likes a smart ****.......thanks for noticing..it won't stop me following the storey or adding new posts.......................ch eers.

Don't worry about that. I do it all the time

I don't think it came over like that at all anyway. The fact is your posts were valid and accurate and should stand on that merit. It's hard to present facts you know concisely in a thread with humility, you can only do that in a conversation, but in words alone and in a forum environment, it is difficult. So don't worry about it. We have lost some excellent points and astute observations with your Owellian purge The thread certainly has lost depth and insight because of that.

You obviously have a great passion and knowledge of the subject. Don't skimp on that because you feel you come across as a know it all. The posts you made in this thread did you great credit.

[blacktimberwolf]

Don't worry about that. I do it all the time

I don't think it came over like that at all anyway. The fact is your posts were valid and accurate and should stand on that merit. It's hard to present facts you know concisely in a thread with humility, you can only do that in a conversation, but in words alone and in a forum environment, it is difficult. So don't worry about it. We have lost some excellent points and astute observations with your Owellian purge The thread certainly has lost depth and insight because of that.

You obviously have a great passion and knowledge of the subject. Don't skimp on that because you feel you come across as a know it all. The posts you made in this thread did you great credit.

Mmmm,.......... most of what I've written, has been included in "reply with quotes" posts from other members anyway,, this has been a very interesting thread but seems to be dampening down a little...................so what have we got; some tracks larger than a domestic cat's.........we are all pretty sure it is feline...........we know that many species of " released" wild cat do roam Britain's fair land.........................s o let's have some suggestions folks as to what it could be ...................keep em' comming...............
just a thought, all these big " beasts" wondering around, yet no one has ever been killed or even injured by one......am I wrong ?.......

[nitrambur]

I'll stick with my earlier suggestion, Lynx Rufus - Bobcat

[blacktimberwolf]

I'll stick with my earlier suggestion, Lynx Rufus - Bobcat

could be, & bobcats do make scat scrapes like the one jonathanD found...............

[JonathanD]

I'm going to go out there again this week. Hopefully with another member, and have a thorough search around the area. It's interesting the amount of people who are firmly in the cat area. I'm waiting on the thoughts of some other people. Hopefully they will weigh in on here.

Personally I'm reluctant to out and out say it's a cat as people who claim they have found such evidence get shot down in flames and ridiculed. But I'm at a loss as to what it is outside that possibility. The size and shape are like nothing I've seen before in this country.

[blacktimberwolf]

I'm going to go out there again this week. Hopefully with another member, and have a thorough search around the area. It's interesting the amount of people who are firmly in the cat area. I'm waiting on the thoughts of some other people. Hopefully they will weigh in on here.

Personally I'm reluctant to out and out say it's a cat as people who claim they have found such evidence get shot down in flames and ridiculed. But I'm at a loss as to what it is outside that possibility. The size and shape are like nothing I've seen before in this country.

Very wise to keep an open mind, it's true we have too little evidence to be catagoric..incidently, when your're back up there, try to see if there are any other scrapes, as bobcats do tend to make a series of them along a trail as a territorial signal , ( here I go again, blah, blah, blah)

[JonathanD]

.... ( here I go again, blah, blah, blah)

Keep on, if you don't mention stuff, I might not look for it.

[southey]

Very cool read indeed guys, Jon have you seen any fur in the tracks them selves, where you found the tracks with a lot of mud pushed up between, is it in on a part of track that floods in heavy rain? or just a low point? it looks like quite firm ground on the first pics judging by the MB track depth compared to the paw print? the second pic (close up) the toe pad print closest to the rule looks to have some regular shaped ridges in it any idea what could have caused that? also the pad print second from the left, it looks as though what made it was given a twist when it pulled out?

I have in the past stuck my tarp firmly in the NO BIG CATS!! camp, but I am approaching this from a hopefully level point of view dudes.

[blacktimberwolf]

Keep on, if you don't mention stuff, I might not look for it.

OK here's one for you, if you find any poo, or of what's left of the original find, open it up,( with a stick of course), as big cat droppings will/do contain remnants of their tucker ( fur,feathers, bits of bone), , a dog's digestion is more thorough ( & it's unlikly rex is pulling down game), not too sure about badgers, but I don't suspect they would have bits of deer jaw bone in thier offerings........ good luck!

[Ronnie]

Personally I'm reluctant to out and out say it's a cat as people who claim they have found such evidence get shot down in flames and ridiculed. But I'm at a loss as to what it is outside that possibility. The size and shape are like nothing I've seen before in this country.

I was under the impression that feral big cats alive and well in the British countryside was pretty much regarded as fact.

http://britishbigcats.blogspot.com/
http://outdoors.caledonianmercury.co...-baffled/00783

The Romans were pretty fond of exotic animals, and certainly brought them to the British Isles. The 1976 Dangerous Animals Act meant it was suddenly became extremely expensive, bureaucratic, and often impossible to keep large predators. Many were simply let loose. Then there are various documented escapes from circuses, zoos etc.

Remember, the Snow Leopard was regarded by many as a mythical beast - it's only recently that they've been photographed and filmed.

[JonathanD]

Very cool read indeed guys, Jon have you seen any fur in the tracks them selves, where you found the tracks with a lot of mud pushed up between, is it in on a part of track that floods in heavy rain? or just a low point? it looks like quite firm ground on the first pics judging by the MB track depth compared to the paw print? the second pic (close up) the toe pad print closest to the rule looks to have some regular shaped ridges in it any idea what could have caused that? also the pad print second from the left, it looks as though what made it was given a twist when it pulled out?

I have in the past stuck my tarp firmly in the NO BIG CATS!! camp, but I am approaching this from a hopefully level point of view dudes.

The track doesn't really flood, but as it dips and winds, it had depressions with loose earth covering it from some outlying badger sett excavations. It is firm ground, but the loose earth from the setts makes a few nice print catches after rain. When the bike went over, it was damp, but had slight rain after for about an hour that night before the animal walked over. The mountain bike is on teh outer part of the path which is slightly higher and drier. The ridges in the prints are from hair between the pad. The one you are looking at, seems to have had the outer toe slip out as the animal put it's weight down.

I've not found any fur as such, but did attempt a cast that went wrong and it has caught a very thin wispy sandy blonde hair from between the pads.

[blacktimberwolf]

I was under the impression that feral big cats alive and well in the British countryside was pretty much regarded as fact.

http://britishbigcats.blogspot.com/
http://outdoors.caledonianmercury.co...-baffled/00783

The Romans were pretty fond of exotic animals, and certainly brought them to the British Isles. The 1976 Dangerous Animals Act meant it was suddenly became extremely expensive, bureaucratic, and often impossible to keep large predators. Many were simply let loose. Then there are various documented escapes from circuses, zoos etc.

Remember, the Snow Leopard was regarded by many as a mythical beast - it's only recently that they've been photographed and filmed.

Yes the UK does seem to have a stable population of "big cats".....the enigma is sightings rarely concure, photographic evidence is blurred, tracks are unidentifiable, even by experts & the livestock killed by them offers little evidence as to the perpetrator................... ..........Yes the romans did introduce exotic furries into blighty, notably, the rabbit.

[southey]

Cheers dude, just to put it out there, i've seen tracks from huskies that looked similar and could be close to the size, without any sign of claws due to heavy running on the forest gravel/hardcore tracks around the woodland just south of Forres, any chance it could be something of a similar breed?

[JonathanD]

Cheers dude, just to put it out there, i've seen tracks from huskies that looked similar and could be close to the size, without any sign of claws due to heavy running on the forest gravel/hardcore tracks around the woodland just south of Forres, any chance it could be something of a similar breed?

Could be, I'll look into husky prints. This animal was certainly walking though, not running. But it is a possibility that I would rate higher than a big cat. I'll check em out now.

[blacktimberwolf]

The track doesn't really flood, but as it dips and winds, it had depressions with loose earth covering it from some outlying badger sett excavations. It is firm ground, but the loose earth from the setts makes a few nice print catches after rain. When the bike went over, it was damp, but had slight rain after for about an hour that night before the animal walked over. The mountain bike is on teh outer part of the path which is slightly higher and drier. The ridges in the prints are from hair between the pad. The one you are looking at, seems to have had the outer toe slip out as the animal put it's weight down.

I've not found any fur as such, but did attempt a cast that went wrong and it has caught a very thin wispy sandy blonde hair from between the pads.

You've been holding back on us ! whispy blond hair, the hair between dog's pads is short & a little coarse ( someone will say " my dog has wavy blond fur between his pads", I know!).

[JonathanD]

You've been holding back on us ! whispy blond hair, the hair between dog's pads is short & a little coarse ( someone will say " my dog has wavy blond fur between his pads", I know!).

I only found it about an hour ago after I cleaned the dry mud off the cast I took. The entire print has collapsed though, which I'm really disapointed about, but it is a fine hair. We have DNA

[southey]

You've been holding back on us ! whispy blond hair, the hair between dog's pads is short & a little coarse ( someone will say " my dog has wavy blond fur between his pads", I know!).

Hahaha, and would have to me first too, My dog has inch and a half long white hair between her toes, winter coat, i run with her every day on tarmac and trail and its still there. it very firm though, if you run your hand through the rest of her coat you will come away with a few hairs but the paw hair is very hard to pull out, and the crys don't make it easy either!