Question for plantain lovers

[Ginger]

Noting a lot of narrow-leaved plantain (Plantago lanceolata) in my neck of the woods at the moment, I checked my books and found the wonderful contradiction below. It shows you why personal testing is so important in bushcraft...

Speaking of plantains, Bradford Angier, in Field Guide to Edible Wild Plants, (ISBN 0-8117-2018-7), says:

“The narrow-leaved varieties are tenderest.”

Russ Mohney in Why Wild Edibles? (ISBN 0-914718-07-X) says:

“The broad-leaved species are far superior in taste and edibility. The narrow-leaved plants tend to be somewhat bitter and tough.”

Has anyone on the board tried eating narrow-leaved plantain, as well as broad-leaved plantain (Plantago major), and got an opinion that might help clarify those of Russ Mohney and Bradford Angier?

Both authors point out that growing conditions affect plantain but Angier talks about minimally cooking narrow-leaved plantain to render it fit for the palate (I'm in an eloquent mood today ), whereas Mohney says narrow-leaved plantain is best cooked in slightly sweetened water to counter its bitterness.

This implies that both chaps were speaking of what they knew rather than merely speculating. Both, of course, are talking about the leaves rather than roots or seeds, which I understand are only edible from broad-leaved plantain.

[R-Bowskill]

Different people like different tastes and flavours, you can see this in any pub in the world, that's why the supermarkets have 300 types of toothpaste or whatever on their shelves. I think the different statements in these books are just down to people having different tastes, perhaps they first tried the variety they say ios best and so think that is what plantain should taste like. I've tried both types but I usually gather the broad leaf variety because the leaves are bigger so I get more for the same effort. Maybe someone needs to do a blind tasting test so they can say "9 out of 10 bushcrafters preferred it"

[match]

I find the broad leaves tend to taste more like spinach, but can often be quite bland - the smaller ones have a sharper more acidic taste, but can be stringy and tough if old or dry...

Personally, I tend to just use plantain as a blister guard in shoes - if your feet are starting to blister pick lots of the broad-leaves and line your shoes with them - seems to fix blisters up a treat!

[Moonraker]

Nice observation Ginger. Often there are contradictions in comments relating to edibility and taste of wild foods. For example Roger Phillips says in his well known book 'Wild Food':

Plantain. Plantago major L. This is listed as a salad herb or a vegetable in many books. I have tried it a few times both cooked and raw but I find it horrible to eat because it is tough and bitter.

We used to eat part of the plantain leaf when I was at school. Greater Plantain from memory but probably the same for both. Basically you find a younger leaf and grasp it right as the base, then pull gently until it comes away from the plant base. Then you eat it raw by using your front teeth the pull the softer pale colour flesh away from the tough central fibres. This flesh then is not tough (you have left the fibres behind) nor bitter (which is in the green part of the leaf). It was a quite pleasant snack food.

More details of what is actually in them and especially their medical uses which make them useful for bushcraft:

Plantago lanceolata L. Plantaginaceae - Ribwort (May- Sept.) A perennial herb with 20-47cm tall flower-scape and a short, silkly hairy stem. The leaves areall basal, 3-30cm 10ng,Ianceolate to ovate-Ianceolate, usually entire, rarely toothed, distinctly 3 to 5-nerved, tapering into a usually long petiole at the base. The flowers are very small, regular, arranged in a dense 1-5cm long, cylindrical spike; the scape is always longer than the leaves, deeply grooved. The corolla is 4-lobed, 3.5-4mm in diameter, brownish; the lobes are acute, with a brown midrib. The 4 white stamens are inserted in the corolla-tube. The fruit is a 4-5mm wide 2-seeded capsule.

Habitat: grassland, roadsides, riverbanks, hedges, etc. Distribution: throughout the region. Active ingredients: mucilage, silicic acid, aucubine, ursolic acid, tannins, vitamin C. Effect: mildly expectorant, mildly purgative and (perhaps) diuretic. Parts used: the dried leaves; dry as quickly as possible in the sun or shade (leaves which are black should be discarded); store in sacks suspended in well-ventilated rooms. Application Medical: the drug is contained in some cough mixtures. In the home an infusion (2 teaspoons per cup water, allow to stand for 12-15 minutes) is taken 2-3 times a day for bronchitis and coughs; it is also taken as a spring tonic (to purify the blood). for disorders of the liver and diarrhoea. The freshly pressed juice can also be taken for coughs. Edibility: The young leaves are occasionally eaten. They are, however, rather bitter and tedious to prepare since their fibrous strands have to be removed before use.

Plantago major L. Plantaginaceae - Great Plantain (June- Oct.) This perennial is closely related to the above but can be distinguished from it as follows. The leaves are ovate or elliptic from a broadly rounded base. The scape is not grooved. The corolla lobes are without a prominent brown midrib. The anthers are lilac to yellowish. Otherwise as for the preceding species. The dried, mature inflorescences can be used as food for cage birds.

source (scanned/ocr &checked): the hamlyn guide to edible & medicinal plants of britain and northern europe. dr edmund launert. hamlyn publishing. 1989. isbn: 0600563952

More details can be found on the excellent PFAF (Plants For A Future) Database here

happy foraging

[Moine]

Hey Simon,

I didn't know that trick with plantain I'll try that Thanks !

I always chose the newest, thinnest, freshest leaves and diced them very small. I then mixed it with other goodies (typically dandelions leaves since those two often grow side by side).

One of my favourite uses for plantain (apart from plantain balm) is to rub a crushed leaf on bee/yellowjackets stings. It really works well. Removes pain and reduces swelling by a LOT. Some say it even works for viper bites but I never tested it and have no serious info about it.

Cheers

David

[Moonraker]

One of my favourite uses for plantain (apart from plantain balm) is to rub a crushed leaf on bee/yellowjackets stings. It really works well. Removes pain and reduces swelling by a LOT. Some say it even works for viper bites but I never tested it and have no serious info about it.

Apparently plantain has many uses and may well provide some use for snake bites from what I have read in researching it:

the chemical analysis of Plantgo Major reveals the remarkable glycoside Aucubin. Acubin has been reported in the Journal Of Toxicology as a powerful anti-toxin.

I am going to have a go at harvesting it and eating it in various ways soon and will post results with a few photos.

We are off to the UK next week but I will call you when I am back to work out some time so we can go wild with a wok on 'les plantes sauvage' around your place sometime David

[Fenlander]

An infusion of plantain used to be swilled in the mouth to relieve tooth ache.

The leaves crushed and then applied to bites and stings, are incredibly effective, giving almost instant relief in my experience

Native American indians called it "White mans footprint", because it was introduced by Europeon settlers and spread across the states with them (probably via seeds stuck to their shoes).

[Ibbo]

Just for any who are interested, Plantain can be used for many medicinial purposes-

The leaves can be pounded into a poultice and applied over bleading wounds...
An infusion of the stem and leaves can aid sore throats, and also help with diarrhoea...
And, apparently, the expressed juice can help with haemorrhoids...

[KIMBOKO]

Ginger
Rather than reading in a book about the plants you can always go outside identify and compare the plants yourself. Make your own mind up.
I think Bushcraft should be about positive action and finding out for ourselves rather than academic pondering its not an armchair activity.

[Moonraker]

Ginger
Rather than reading in a book about the plants you can always go outside identify and compare the plants yourself. Make your own mind up.
I think Bushcraft should be about positive action and finding out for ourselves rather than academic pondering its not an armchair activity.

I agree with you Kimboko that trying things yourself is the only way to experience the tastes and really see how useful a plant it. But, I also think that you need to be as aware as possible of the potential dangers as well as the potential benefits of a plant and therefore reading or tuition are important parts of the learning process. This is especially important when we consider all plants, fungi etc as potentially harmful until we are certain of the identification and confident with our level of knowledge.

Also, as we can see different people make different value judgements and until we try it ourselves we can not fully appreciate those comments. But also if I read something tastes or acts a certain way and it differs from my experience, then it usually leads me to retry that plant because it may be a certain part I ate, or the maturity of the plant, or the soil conditions or a subtle difference in species etc. So for me, reading about it helps me better understand the plant and is a useful aid, alongside the excitement of trying new experiences.

[KIMBOKO]

I agree with you Mooraker but the writer of the original thread obviously knew what the plants were, had read several books, was aware of different authors view, but instead of making the leap of trying out the plants refered to this forum for an academic discussion of comparison between two authors.

Bushcraft is about doing not talking about doing or discussing about doing.

Surely its better to try them out, make up your own mind before you seek the opinion of others. This is a lot of experience on this forum but there is also a lot of inexperienced people with opinions purporting to be fact.

Make up your own mind.

[Ginger]

Ginger
Rather than reading in a book about the plants you can always go outside identify and compare the plants yourself. Make your own mind up.
I think Bushcraft should be about positive action and finding out for ourselves rather than academic pondering its not an armchair activity.

Cheeky blighter! :-)

In the interests of sharing information, let's keep this thread on topic: what differences folks notice between the two plants, etc.

[Moonraker]

I agree with you Mooraker but the writer of the original thread obviously knew what the plants were, had read several books, was aware of different authors view, but instead of making the leap of trying out the plants refered to this forum for an academic discussion of comparison between two authors.

Bushcraft is about doing not talking about doing or discussing about doing.

Surely its better to try them out, make up your own mind before you seek the opinion of others. This is a lot of experience on this forum but there is also a lot of inexperienced people with opinions purporting to be fact.

Make up your own mind.

What you say is true about 'doing' as central to bushcraft, but I also believe there is a place for talking too, or else there would be little use for this forum for instance

In the ideal situation we would all learn these skills from someone with years of practical experience and 'lore' (who themselves learnt it in the same manner), as it would have been for our ancestors, before the internet, books, TV etc. However life has changed and unless we are lucky enough to know someone with this knowledge then we must seek out what we can from these other sources. This is especially true for those just beginning.

Yes, people do sometimes write things which have no bearing on actual 'hands on' experience and often it is obvious,and I am as guilty of that, but it is more a sign of enthusiasm about the subject and desire to share information which is part the learning process.

Once you have the confidence then yes, get out there and make your mind up. It would also be great if more people did 'do' and post their thoughts, ideas, photos also and in that way help share the lore

[Ginger]

I agree with you Mooraker but the writer of the original thread obviously knew what the plants were, had read several books, was aware of different authors view, but instead of making the leap of trying out the plants refered to this forum for an academic discussion of comparison between two authors.

Bushcraft is about doing not talking about doing or discussing about doing.

Surely its better to try them out, make up your own mind before you seek the opinion of others. This is a lot of experience on this forum but there is also a lot of inexperienced people with opinions purporting to be fact.

Make up your own mind.

OK, having slept on this, I want to flesh out my perspective on this. I hope it will bring a different approach to what we assume about posters and how we respond to them in the light of our assumptions.

Kimboko there are two areas where your thinking is different to mine. Not wrong, but different.

One is the claim that Bushcraft is about doing, not talking about doing or discussing about doing. For me it is about both. Simple as that. Several people on this discussion board also like discussing aspects of bushcraft - that, of course, is one of the reasons they come to the board.

The second is that your comments about my post makes the assumptions that:

a) I can try both plants and quickly learn for myself which of the two authors was closer to the truth
b) that I haven't tried both plants because I'd rather discuss bushcraft than do it
c) that the irony in the two author's opposing views wasn't worth sharing with the board

With regard to a), there are many reasons why a person may choose to post to a board instead of, or before, they try a comparison of both plants. Such as:

1. It may be the wrong time of year to find both plants in a tender condition
2. They may be in an area where for one reason or another, both plants are growing in places that don't leave them in a fit state to be eaten (for example, London pavements, where they are likely to be within 50ft or so of exhausts)
3. The person may be on a lattitude that has both plants too mature and tough to enjoy, let alone to provide a successful texture comparison of younger leaves
4. Broad-leaved plantain may not grow in my area (narrow-leaved clearly does)
5. I may have too many other commitments right now to collect both plants and do comparisons.
6. I may think that other people on the board might enjoy the contradiction in the two books and might enjoy discussing various aspects of the plants concerned (along with that contradiction)
6. It may be more efficient for me to ask other people what they think on this issue so that I can use the time saved to get on with tanning a buckskin or earning my living.
7. In my area, broadleaved plantain may only grow in a well-trodden pavement and have virtually no collectable leaves (I have a great photo of one like this - it's a testament to the plant's ability to survive)
8. I may be too old to go out.
9. I may be too young to drive to a place where I can gather broad-leaved plantain
10. I may be disabled and not able to easily gather either of these plants
11. It may have been late at night when I posted and my goal may have been to pool together what people on the board know about the plants (for the benefit of all who are interested) while I planned to go out next day to try them for myself then come back and throw my experiences into the pool.

When you consider the above list, one of the themes that comes out is that people's environments for practicing bushcraft differ. Part of learning bushcraft is being aware that people's environments differ, right?

Several of the above list do apply to my circumstances.

With regard to c), your comments imply that the only reason I don't try the plants is because I'd rather discuss bushcraft than do bushcraft. Well, I think that this was jumping to a conclusion. It is true that I don't have anything like as much time to practice bushcraft as I would like. But I don't see why I should be implicitly assumed to be more interested in "discussing bushcraft, not doing bushcraft" as a result of that.

With regard to d), I think the content of the two author's views was worth sharing with the board. I was surprised - and pleased - when I saw someone had given my original post five stars. I take that to mean that several other members of the board enjoy discussing elements of bushcraft and that my original post was among the more stimulating for those that discuss. I'll hazard a guess that several of the people discussing plantain on this thread enjoying doing bushcraft as well as discussing it.

While we all make assumptions about other people, I don't want to head off those assumptions by setting out the reasons I do or don't do something when I post a "discussion" rather than "doing" it myself. Nor do I want to have to publish my experience level to provide context for why I am posting. Instead, I want to feel that I and other people can come here to discuss elements of bushcraft without judgement. I think being able to do so is a good thing for us and for bushcraft as a whole.

Er.... yeah, that's it really!