Tarp slagging off on outdoors forums

[Paul_B]

Been on another forum related more to walking hiking and backpacking. There was a thread where there were a lot of, in my eyes, unfounded negative comments about the use of tarps.

Granted midges are a problem but you can get very light bug nets these days that go over the opening of your bivvy bag. Can't use it at all in SCotland in midge season, ways round it like with midge netting and camping high in a breeze.

Loads of comments saying driving rain gets in, balderdash if you use it right. One posted a 1m x 2m tapr pitched high in an a frame. WTF! Would anyone go out in such a tiny tarp in a hoolie and pitch it in a high up a frame. I use a 2.5m square in a cave type pitch. Works in all weathers. I'm talking ground dwelling here.

Does anyone else think that tent users need some education in tapr use?

I pointed out what a friend who has replaced her mountain hardwear tent because the high flysheet sides and the inner mesh mean in the uk rain gets inside the tent. I also know that the American made Scarp tent has had a UK spec with the option of solid fabric walls on the inner and lower fitting fly sheets (they go to the ground in UK spec). SO if tents are all that good then by choosing these unsuitable tents you wouldn't get wet neither. I just think there re right products and wrong products and right use and wrong use for everything. Just like these two tents were unsuitable for most of our upland wildcamping use so are some tarps unsuitable. Also pitch a tarp the right way you have a good shelter pitch it the wrong way for the conditions and site you also get a bad night. Midges don't fly too well with 4mph plus winds. It could be less than that in a tarp so they could shelter and bite you there. More likely a high level pitch will have winds that keep them down and they are unlikely to come out just to find your tarp so you often can find pitches that are midge free even in Scotlandshire at this time of year.

What are your opinions? Can a tarp be used in Scotland at this time of year or are the tent lobbyists right?

PS I went tarp when I got sick of condensation in my single skin tent which was the lightest option I could afford in tent form for backpacking before I got my tarp.

[Bigfoot]

I think you could easily use a tarp in Scotland provided you take sensible precautions and use appropriate midge protection. A lot of folks find slinging a pop up tent far easier though, I suppose it comes down to education and what folks are prepared to do to kip out in the great outdoors.

I used my tarp at the weekend but it was as a cooking shelter - I slept in the tent as it has really good insect screens, I don't have a separate bug net (yet).

[John Fenna]

My solo tent is lighter than my tarp/bivi combo - and it is double skinned - BUT it has a lot less room for storage etc.
I love tarp/bivi combos for most of my outdoor sleeping but in real bad/midgy weather I would take my tent
Horses for courses and whatever suits you best!

[Peter_t]

tents are boring, heavy and take too long to set up.
the last thing i want to do in the morning when its raining is to muck about folding it in a certain way so it fits in its bag, tarps you can tear down and stuff it into a bag in a minute or so.

does anybody else think that tents kinda spoil the outdoor experience a bit? i think being zipped up in a tent excludes you from the outdoors, its a bit like trying to bring home with you if you get what i meen.



pete

[drewdunnrespect]

does anybody else think that tents kinda spoil the outdoor experience a bit? i think being zipped up in a tent excludes you from the outdoors, its a bit like trying to bring home with you if you get what i meen.

i fully agree peter mate

[John Fenna]

tents are boring, heavy and take too long to set up.
the last thing i want to do in the morning when its raining is to muck about folding it in a certain way so it fits in its bag, tarps you can tear down and stuff it into a bag in a minute or so.

does anybody else think that tents kinda spoil the outdoor experience a bit? i think being zipped up in a tent excludes you from the outdoors, its a bit like trying to bring home with you if you get what i meen.



pete

I agree with you on that - under most circumstances - except that my tent weighs 1kg and pitches with less fuss than my tarp and at times I want more "total protection" than a tarp can give me.
I have used the tent about twice inthe past 2 years and my tarp rig about once a month!
I will be taking a tent to the Moot - a big slow boring one...2 man! - but only as a store tent - I will be kipping in my hammock under my tarp!

[forestwalker]

tents are boring, heavy and take too long to set up.

I've spent this summer pretty much living out in the woods. Or rather sleeping most nights out in the woods, and working by day. The alternatives have been a 3x3 m tarp and a lightweight Tentipi tent (the old Tåpp jakt 5, so the smallest size).

Booring; yes, you can't see the woods around you.

Heavy: a bit more, but also takes much more room in the pack. But a minimalist solo tent (e.g.
Hillebergs Akto) would not be as bad compared to the tarp

Time: It takes me less than 15 minutes from arriving at a campsite until I'm inside the tent, with all my gear sorted and doing whatever I want to be doing (cooking, inside the sleepingbag, whatever).

the last thing i want to do in the morning when its raining is to muck about folding it in a certain way so it fits in its bag, tarps you can tear down and stuff it into a bag in a minute or so.

It is about equal in my mind. Once you know a tent it is fairly quick, and if the stuff-sack is an undersized evil thing make a new one, larger but with compression straps.

does anybody else think that tents kinda spoil the outdoor experience a bit? i think being zipped up in a tent excludes you from the outdoors, its a bit like trying to bring home with you if you get what i meen.

In my mind there is one big advantage to a tent; the mozzies mostly stay on the outside. This gives you a better nights sleep with no chemicals, which is nice. And even with a separate net you then have to share your breakfast with the mozzies (you eat the food, they drink your blood).

On the other hand you can see what is around you with a tarp, see sunrise and sunset, look at the birds, pick some bilberries while still in your sleeping bag.

It all boils down to; what is the most important aspect; a predictable good nights sleep in dense clouds of mosquitos, or the nature experience. In the latter case I'd pick the tarp almost every time, in the former the tent does have some advantages. I think the campfire style tents (be they synthetic and lightweight or (poly)cotton and fire-resistant) is the ideal compromise, and after this summer I intend to make one llight weight version and one cotton version.

On the topic of synthetic ones; a friend had a look at the Finnish shelters that PKRL (?) has mentioned here. His review was; needs some more reinforcements to last, and has an Al-coated inside (a bit of a "return to the 80's", as some kinds of kit looked here then). He also suggested that if I wanted something like that I should make it myself, unless I wanted it ready out of the box right now.

[Paul_B]

I'm still saving for a midge net thingy I heard about from USA (I know midges are smaller than mossies so have to get small mesh size). I've not got a really light set up but even if I get this net it would work out at about 700g or so. Not much lighter than a laser come and the new laser that is only 560g is lighter. However this set-up would be more durable, roomier and well at 6'5" I don't fit in those light weight tents so that leaves those single skins at about 1.5kg or a hilleberg atko at 1.5kg and way above my budget. So I've kind of been firced into this sort of option. Having said that I love it. Horses for courses but of course there are solutions to most problems and midges / inclement weather do have solutions involving tarps. Light and roomy ones at that. So why the aggressive anti-tarp pitch in other forums by those who have no idea?

[mikewilkinson]

Gotta say, as much as tents are good, comfy and make a great base camp, I don't find them pratical for being on the move in varying terrain. With the Tarp I can pretty much camp anywhere, combo'd with a hammock it can be setup in woodland on slopes and inclines, used with walking poles/sticks and a bivvy bag can be used up above the treeline no problems. I use a 3mx3m tarp and can rig it as a quick brew shelter or mini teepee, can rig it as a pyramid tarp, wedge shelter, low storm shelter, the configurations are endless and "tarpology" can be a fun exercise to do just to see what can be done.

Love your sentiments Wayland, and many thanks for your Ravenlore site, very inspiring and informative.

For me Bushcraft is getting outdoors and enjoying what nature has to offer. Don't care much how you go about that, just as long as you enjoy it with destroying it. It is not about what you carry or what knowledge you have but how you apply yourself to get the most out of the experiance. My three year old daughter loves to play name the trees and will run around for ages touching trees and shouting out their names (right or wrong) but the fun she gets out of that makes her infinitely more 'crafty' than me as she can make a lot out of a little knowledge.

[David.s]

I have only used the tarp setup once over a weekend, there was quite a few midges about and i have a headnet for sleeping with and had absolutely no problems whatsoever.

[Grooveski]

Aye, you're right enough. A tarp and net does fine and if you get above them or have the right breeze you don't need the net. If it's a nice night you don't need the tarp either.

Tents have their uses though. My favorite lately is a hooped bivy. You're head's sticking out so on a nice night you can stargaze but the net and full cover are only a quick zip away. Pack down to nothing...........
Great wee things - wish I'd tried one years ago.

[andy_e]

I've slept out in all-seasons and weather (blizzards, floods and gales) in Scotland under a tarp. Even in Glencoe and Glen Etive in July - the height of the midgie season and the consistently highest densities in Scotland (according to the midge forecast website) - though frankly the act of being there was more fool-hardy than my sleeping arrangements

I've used netted DD hammocks, hooped bivi with built-in net and used a separate net on both the ground and with un-netted hammocks.

Using a tarp in Scotland in summer is fantastic - with the right precautions you avoid the bugs, you get a fresh breeze to avoid the stuffiness of tents. and you also wake up with an unrivalled view every morning.

Nothing against tents. I've got three myself including a lovely go-lite shangri-la 3 that I bought for going to St Kilda, but I'll choose a tarp 9 times out of 10.

[Wayland]

I'm using my pyramid tarp for storage too.

It's tarp for me unless there is no option.

[Paul_B]

Good! I'm not alone then in liking tarps.

My other tents are a vango two man hooped tent for car camping (actually a very stable tent for 2kg) a single skin for when I don't feel confident in a tarp (read v windy weather before I developed confidence in mytarp pitching skills). I use all of them. Usually the single skin early season and the tarp mid to late spring through to autumn. The large tent (small vango spectre 200 Dof E style 3 hooped tunnel tent) is a car camping tent for especially camping by the roads whenb travellingin Scotland or with friends up there plus campsites anywehere .

However the tarp is my preferred hill shelter when I'll be carrying it.

So as a tarpist I'm normal, thats good to know.

[Doc]

A lot of outdoors forums are focussed on hillwalking. In mountain country I would usually take a tent. Having said that I've also had good results with a tarp strung between two walking poles when up in the Cairngorms.

[Radix lecti]

Tarp for me or even a poncho

[rik_uk3]

Well, lets look at the pro's and con's

Tarp:


Pro’s

Tarps can be fun to use

Fit the bushy image more than a tent


Con’s

Draughty, wind can blow through

Wet, rain easily driven in

Needs a bug nest

NOT faster to setup than tents necessarily

Can be heavier than a tent when you add up all the components, tarp, midge net, maybe ground sheet

Colder than a tent

More expensive than a simple tent

Not as good in winter for a social chit chat with your mate than a tent.

Not as good at keeping you dry

Not as good at keeping you warm


Tent:

Come with poles, don’t need a wall/sticks/trees to pitch so not limited to areas you can use

Wind proof

Waterproof

Warm

Social, when sharing you can chat with chum or chums

Comfortable out of the elements

Con’s

Some don’t like the colour of material

Poor bushy image

Are you sure the tent users need to be educated

I like tarps, great day shelters/beer shelters/kitchen areas but I sleep in tents. Just my opinion.l

[andy_e]

I'm sure it's a discussion that's been had many times and personally I feel it really boils down to personal preference, and perhaps in extreme cases, environment

Well, lets look at the pro's and con's

Tarp:


Pro’s

Tarps can be fun to use

Fit the bushy image more than a tent


Con’s

Draughty, wind can blow through

Wet, rain easily driven in

To be fair that depends how you set it up, a tarp makes an excellent wind- and rain-proof shelter if set appropriately.

Needs a bug nest

So does my go-lite during summer up here and the nest more than doubles the weight.

NOT faster to setup than tents necessarily

Tarps like tents require practice to get quick set-up times, tents are often easierto learn - no odd knots needed - but a tarp is more flexible.

Can be heavier than a tent when you add up all the components, tarp, midge net, maybe ground sheet

True, it can be but to match the weight and fuctionality you can easily spend a lot more money on a tent. My £30 tarp, £20 net, £7 mat weighs less than a kilo, and has kept me warm and dry in all weather - with an appropriate configuration.

Colder than a tent

Sometimes, but then they're not as stuffy as most tents.

More expensive than a simple tent.

Sometimes, but the tarp I've used most in the last 2 - 3 years cost me £30.

Not as good in winter for a social chit chat with your mate than a tent.

Ah but a nice windbreak configuration with an open fire is even more fun ;-)

Not as good at keeping you dry

Not as good at keeping you warm

There's no reason why it shouldn't, if you use a configuration that suits the situation.

Tent:

Come with poles, don’t need a wall/sticks/trees to pitch so not limited to areas you can use

Walking sticks are dual-purpose and do the job just as well. With tents you do need a nice flat area to pitch.

Wind proof

Waterproof

On a recent trip to Harris (not many trees), I was only one using a tarp and was the only one that stayed dry.

Warm

Social, when sharing you can chat with chum or chums

Comfortable out of the elements

Con’s

Some don’t like the colour of material

Whaddya mean? Vango do a lovely Olive green ;-)

Poor bushy image

Are you sure the tent users need to be educated

Not in the least - live and let lie in is what I say, but newcomers and the curious deserve to know there are perfectly viable alternatives.

I like tarps, great day shelters/beer shelters/kitchen areas but I sleep in tents. Just my opinion.l

I should also add I bought the go-lite after seeing your many Hex3 pics.

Vive la difference

[rik_uk3]

I'm sure it's a discussion that's been had many times and personally I feel it really boils down to personal preference, and perhaps in extreme cases, environment



To be fair that depends how you set it up, a tarp makes an excellent wind- and rain-proof shelter if set appropriately.



So does my go-lite during summer up here and the nest more than doubles the weight.



Tarps like tents require practice to get quick set-up times, tents are often easierto learn - no odd knots needed - but a tarp is more flexible.


True, it can be but to match the weight and fuctionality you can easily spend a lot more money on a tent. My £30 tarp, £20 net, £7 mat weighs less than a kilo, and has kept me warm and dry in all weather - with an appropriate configuration.


Sometimes, but then they're not as stuffy as most tents.



Sometimes, but the tarp I've used most in the last 2 - 3 years cost me £30.


Ah but a nice windbreak configuration with an open fire is even more fun ;-)


There's no reason why it shouldn't, if you use a configuration that suits the situation.


Walking sticks are dual-purpose and do the job just as well. With tents you do need a nice flat area to pitch.


On a recent trip to Harris (not many trees), I was only one using a tarp and was the only one that stayed dry.


Whaddya mean? Vango do a lovely Olive green ;-)


Not in the least - live and let lie in is what I say, but newcomers and the curious deserve to know there are perfectly viable alternatives.



I should also add I bought the go-lite after seeing your many Hex3 pics.

Vive la difference

Andy, I'm playing devils advocate here really, tarps are fine but my reply was not the best, and reading it again its not as tongue in cheek as was meant. The bottom line is use what you like but overall tarps are just not as strong as a tent, if they were that good they would be using them on Everest, they do limit you really to woodland camping even with walking poles they are a low structure, they are open more to the elements and not as warm, dry and cozy as a tent. I love my Golite but sad to say my back and knee problems mean I can't really get in and out of it these days and so stick to the Juno 800 and look forward to trying the Green tee (or is it Tee green) 500 I just got.

One major issue I have with the whole camping style of bushcraft is so many people limit themselves to camping in the woods (not all but certainly the majority) and miss out of some stunning countryside. Go winter camping up in the Glyder's of Snowdonia, sit in the porch of your tent (you don't want to be in a tarp there really in winter) and let the view flood over you, get out of the woodland camping only mind set and enjoy life that bit more.

[andy_e]

Andy, I'm playing devils advocate here really, tarps are fine but my reply was not the best, and reading it again its not as tongue in cheek as was meant.

It was taken in that spirit Rik.

[bilmo-p5]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/sho...808#post724808

Bit of a one-sided comparison, Richard! :?

[rik_uk3]

You really do post the most unbridled cr*p sometimes, Richard! :?

Meant every word Ian

I'm bored, bored, bored, bored, bored, bloody bored, fed up, peed off, I'm off to play backgammon on line and giving some foreign Jonny a dam good thrashing to break the monotony. Good job the cats dead or it would get a kicking just now

I'm going to flog all my stoves, all my camping gear and take up another hobby, bored with it all, I've hit the boredom threshold so to speak today, 28th July 2010 at 9:20; had a breast full, need to move on.

[bilmo-p5]

Switch off your pc for a day or three and do something else. Its all too easy for your pc to become a sort of interactive idiots' lantern - the whole world wide web out there and nothing worth looking at...
Put on your coat a go for a stroll.

[johnboy]

Meant every word Ian

I'm bored, bored, bored, bored, bored, bloody bored, fed up, peed off, I'm off to play backgammon on line and giving some foreign Jonny a dam good thrashing to break the monotony. Good job the cats dead or it would get a kicking just now

I'm going to flog all my stoves, all my camping gear and take up another hobby, bored with it all, I've hit the boredom threshold so to speak today, 28th July 2010 at 9:20; had a breast full, need to move on.

Take a look at these...









That's what it's all about...

Not this...



or this....




Cheer up

[bilmo-p5]

Take a look at these...

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/sho...075#post725075

Nicely put, John.
Can't see the wood for the trees sometimes.

[LennyMac]

It was the day that Usain Bolt won the Olympic 100m- I was just outside of Abbotsham in North Devon, hiking toward Clovelly; it was around 4:00pm I think, and suddenly, the heavens opened and as I was close to stopping for the night anyway, I jumped a farm gate and threw up my poncho in an empty field. After about an hour of rain, the first slugs appeared- just one or two, but as the sun went down, they began to be more numerous, seemingly advancing toward me from all directions. Over the course of the night, I was awoken several times by slugs on my face and each time I would remove one, I could feel 10 or more all over the hood of my sleeping bag. I woke in the morning to find absolutely everything covered in slime (it is hard to be sufficiently expressive here) and above my head, on the underside of the poncho, there would have been about 40 slugs in a circle about the circumference of my face. There would have been another hundred throughout my shelter.

It's the only time I have experienced and my theory is that they were attracted to either the heat or to carbon dioxide (which would explain why there was such a concentration above my face).

[andy_e]

It was the day that Usain Bolt won the Olympic 100m- I was just outside of Abbotsham in North Devon, hiking toward Clovelly; it was around 4:00pm I think, and suddenly, the heavens opened and as I was close to stopping for the night anyway, I jumped a farm gate and threw up my poncho in an empty field. After about an hour of rain, the first slugs appeared- just one or two, but as the sun went down, they began to be more numerous, seemingly advancing toward me from all directions. Over the course of the night, I was awoken several times by slugs on my face and each time I would remove one, I could feel 10 or more all over the hood of my sleeping bag. I woke in the morning to find absolutely everything covered in slime (it is hard to be sufficiently expressive here) and above my head, on the underside of the poncho, there would have been about 40 slugs in a circle about the circumference of my face. There would have been another hundred throughout my shelter.

It's the only time I have experienced and my theory is that they were attracted to either the heat or to carbon dioxide (which would explain why there was such a concentration above my face).

hehehe - have only had the slug thing once or twice while bivi-ing and never as bad as that. I reckon they're actually carnivorous but lack teeth so they gang up and try to gum you to death.

[Barn Owl]

I agree Andy,

I prefer a tarp set up anyday.

I would say i've ended up more wet in a tent than a hammock/bivi and tarp set up when you count them up.

It's much better to be able to see around you and converse with your neighbour after you've retired to bed whilst swinging in the hammock.

I've always had a midge head net and have just recently got one of the midge jackets,better out in the air than cooped in a tent.

Of course I do use a tent or the like at times but first preference is a tarp.

[drewdunnrespect]

tarp for me all the way cos its easier than a tent i think

[British Red]

More and more I just wonder "who cares?"

Someone else has a different opinion. Isn't that a surprise.

I used to care. Increasingly - I don't.

Red