stainless or carbon?

**dorkingbushcraft** · 19-02-2010, 19:21

i would like to know the dis/advantages of stainless & carbon steel blades

thanks
joshua

**Siberianfury** · 19-02-2010, 19:27

depends on the type of steel, there are many different types of each, they all have different qualitys, thenit comes hown to the HT and edge profile.

**JonathanD** · 19-02-2010, 19:28

With the super steels like RWL-34 the differences in terms of use are getting narrower. But in short 01 tool steel holds a great edge and is easy to sharpen, while stainless can be a tad tougher depending on which stainless you go for. 01 needs care and attention as it can rust if damp and acquires a patina with age. Stainless steel, again depending on quality, can stain and rust, but is more resistant to it.

Many bushcrafters prefer 01 and love the characteristics of it gaining a patina with use. If you canoe or are near salt water alot, stainless is the choice.

**HillBill** · 19-02-2010, 19:35

In short,

One rusts, one doesn't

Both take a good edge

Stainless is a little more difficult to sharpen, but not by much, the steel is just a little bit more wear resistant, which is good when using it.

Edit, what Jonathan said

**Diamond Dave** · 19-02-2010, 20:32

Originally Posted by JonathanD

With the super steels like RWL-34 the differences in terms of use are getting narrower. But in short 01 tool steel holds a great edge and is easy to sharpen, while stainless can be a tad tougher depending on which stainless you go for. 01 needs care and attention as it can rust if damp and acquires a patina with age. Stainless steel, again depending on quality, can stain and rust, but is more resistant to it.

Many bushcrafters prefer 01 and love the characteristics of it gaining a patina with use. If you canoe or are near salt water alot, stainless is the choice.

Got it in one...................

**Survivalmike** · 19-02-2010, 20:51

Between Carbon and stainless there is also a personal thing to check out.
Some like carbon some doesn´t.

Carbon steel has a finer carbide and molekular structure than stainless, so you can sharpen a finer edge which is better for carving knives or kitchen knifes.
You´ll never can sharpen a stainless steel blade as fine as a carbon one.
But don´t misunderstand me - you can get a razor edge on both steels.

There are a lot of good steels out there to get - and everything is a little bit different.
Stainless steels are a preference in wet conditions - Carbon steel is better for finer edges and is easier to sharpen.

Which steel how ever you choose it´s very important that the heat treatment is correctly done and the right choice between hardeness and flexibility and also the knife specifications are important (blade hight, blade thickness, the grinding and so on)
Each use needs a different knife optic, a different steel, a different hardeness and so on.

The "perfect" knife is not on the market and so is the "perfect" steel not out there.
But in bushcraft the carbon steel is a little bit better (in my opinion).

You can easily sharpen it in the bush, the fine edge is perfect for carving and the little bit of work you have to do (dry it after use and put some oil on it) is not the big problem to deal with.

Stainless steel would be my choice in wet or salty conditions - but in every other situation I´d take a carbon one with me.

Some words to think of:
"Take care of your knife as you would do with a good friend and you already have a good friend on your side for a long long time.
It´s a little bit of respect you gave to your knife by cleaning and oiling it and your knife will gave this respect back to you, when you working with it."

Hope this helps
greetings from Austria
Mike

**HillBill** · 19-02-2010, 21:30

With stainless being reccomended for wet environments maybe all of us in the uk should be toting stainless blades

**JonathanD** · 19-02-2010, 21:33

Originally Posted by HillBill

With stainless being reccomended for wet environments maybe all of us in the uk should be toting stainless blades

One of each and your well covered

Of course then you have to worry about leather sheaths vs kydex ones... hmmmmm.

**HillBill** · 19-02-2010, 21:38

Originally Posted by JonathanD

One of each and your well covered

Of course then you have to worry about leather sheaths vs kydex ones... hmmmmm.

Tis why i own a fallkniven in kydex and a knife i made in oiled leather

So i will take both sides of both cases ,

**JonathanD** · 19-02-2010, 21:47

Originally Posted by HillBill

Tis why i own a fallkniven in kydex and a knife i made in oiled leather

So i will take both sides of both cases ,

You 'n me both. Well except the bit about a knife you made and an F1

**HillBill** · 19-02-2010, 21:53

Originally Posted by JonathanD

You 'n me both. Well except the bit about a knife you made and an F1

Nice one.

What steel is the full flat? Rwl -34? ( i presume thats the stainless one)

Its an S1 i have. I've had a couple of F1's though

**JonathanD** · 19-02-2010, 22:00

Yeah, full flat is the RWL-34 w/carbon fibre. I was thinking of getting an S1 recently.

Sorry for the hijack dorkingbushcraft

**Shinken** · 20-02-2010, 09:27

As already said, depends completly on the steel, heat treat and grind.

For example, D2 is a carbon steel and 12c27 is a stainless steel.

And if they are Heat treated the way they are most commonly heat treated, D2 is harder to sharpen.

maybe even 01 is harder than 12c27 (depending again on Ht)

01 has roughly 1% carbon and 12c27 has about 0.4%.

But 12c27 has alot more chromium which adds a bit to the difficulty to sharpen. but so does the little wolfrum (or tungsten) in 01.

Wheras D2's combination of 1.5% ish of carbon and its high chromium content combined make it a little harder than both to sharpen.

But i dont think there is a huge difference.

As you can see it is not a simple answer to the question. A bit like asking who is better french or english, and of course the intelligent answer is that it depends on the individual.

It was a good question! sorry i went on a bit

**JonathanD** · 20-02-2010, 12:18

And to top off what Shinken said, the hardness can also affect resilience when it comes to corrosion/stain resistance. The harder treated RWL-34 is, the better it resists the elements, but then it gets harder to sharpen..... all so confusing.

**redneck** · 20-02-2010, 19:41

Originally Posted by HillBill

With stainless being reccomended for wet environments maybe all of us in the uk should be toting stainless blades

Not too bad an idea..I'm sure most of you already know that Alan Wood prefers Stainless over carbon, even O1!!

**HillBill** · 20-02-2010, 20:38

With all the modern stainless steels about these days, theres not much, if anything between them performance wise. I know fallknivens VG10 is easy to sharpen and takes an edge as good as any 01 or other high carbon blade.

If i had the kit to HT stainless then i would definately use it in equal measure to 01.

Like i said before, i have both VG10 and 01 knives and really like the VG10 performance wise i'd rate them equally. With the VG10 taking it one step further by being weatherproof.

**JonathanD** · 20-02-2010, 22:19

In all honesty I think that RWL-34 has the best attributes of 01 and the top performances of SS, it is the steel all to end all

I do however love the patina you get with good old Sheffield 01 steel. It's the steel that Britons stood behind for millennia and it serves us well even today. It's the same reasoning behind us choosing wood and natural materials for our handle slabs over the much better performances of micarta, carbon fibre and others... It's the romance of the ancient.

**Shinken** · 21-02-2010, 19:38

In all honesty I think that RWL-34 has the best attributes of 01 and the top performances of SS, it is the steel all to end all

It is one of the best, but i personally think 3v is the best. it's availability however is pants

**JonathanD** · 21-02-2010, 20:09

Originally Posted by Shinken

It is one of the best, but i personally think 3v is the best. it's availability however is pants

I've never played with a 3v knife. Would certainly like to check it out though.

**Survivalmike** · 21-02-2010, 20:10

Originally Posted by JonathanD

It's the same reasoning behind us choosing wood and natural materials for our handle slabs over the much better performances of micarta, carbon fibre and others... It's the romance of the ancient.

perfect words.....appreciate it.

Mike

**R3XXY** · 21-02-2010, 20:35

When you lot say "harder" to sharpen, do you mean trickier and requiring more experience and feel, or just needs more elbow grease ?

**HillBill** · 21-02-2010, 20:46

Stainless is just a little more wear resistant. The techniques are the same, as the techniques are for sharpening different grinds, not steels. It will just take a little longer with some stainless steels.

Nothing major.

**JonathanD** · 21-02-2010, 21:08

Originally Posted by R3XXY

When you lot say "harder" to sharpen, do you mean trickier and requiring more experience and feel, or just needs more elbow grease ?

To be honest, I can't tell a great deal of difference, but I get into a zen like trance when sharpening so don't pay much attention

**R3XXY** · 22-02-2010, 01:38

i always thought stainless was the way to go until i got my Gerber which is made of
12C27, it's an absolute bitch to sharpen and no matter how hard i try I can't get it as sharp as my mate's carbon Mora or my Fiskars hatchet. Nowhere near as sharp.

**Survivalmike** · 22-02-2010, 07:22

For me the 12C27 is also the "trickiest" one to sharpen. I have sharpen a lot of knives and the all of them get a rezor edge.
On the 12C27 I also get a razor edge but it takes very long.

The keything is, that the 12C27 holds an edge like "tin-can steel" (sorry for the compare but this are my experiences). Thats why I don´t like it.
Hard to sharpen and in comparison with other steels (particulary carbon steel) it´s holding the edge not very well.

greetings
Mike

**Miyagi** · 22-02-2010, 07:47

I've carbon steel chef knives which take a great edge and are great for very thin slicing etc.

In the industry they're not allowed these days, because they pit, rust etc., if not looked after. Young Chefs were told to clean their new knives with lemon juice - nasty trick to play, certainly took the new look off them though!

The stainless ones I have are sharpened before each use (habit) and do a good job, but I prefer the older ones.

Global knives are good (SS I think) but if you have allowed your knife skills to get sloppy (by using SS blades that you've not kept sharp) you'll learn the hard way.

My Sashimi etc., knives are extremely sharp and not to be used with even a hint of a hangover.

Carbon steel for me.

**Paul_B** · 23-02-2010, 18:50

Interesting thread. I have a newbie type of question for you guys. Which mora is best for a novice knife user to own in terms of sharpening and maintaining in good nick? I'll not use it for heavy work more of a light working blade. I'm new to the bushcraft side of things being more of a backpacker type so I'm following advice and getting a mora just confused as to what is what among all the variants I've found.

**Asa Samuel** · 23-02-2010, 19:56

I have a stainless steel clipper and a DC4, so on a slightly off topic note how long would I have to spend on each side to get a razor sharp edge?

**JonathanD** · 23-02-2010, 20:01

Originally Posted by Asa Samuel

I have a stainless steel clipper and a DC4, so on a slightly off topic note how long would I have to spend on each side to get a razor sharp edge?

Depends on how blunt it is

It's something you can't really answer till you do it.

**JonathanD** · 23-02-2010, 20:02

Originally Posted by Paul_B

Interesting thread. I have a newbie type of question for you guys. Which mora is best for a novice knife user to own in terms of sharpening and maintaining in good nick? I'll not use it for heavy work more of a light working blade. I'm new to the bushcraft side of things being more of a backpacker type so I'm following advice and getting a mora just confused as to what is what among all the variants I've found.

Here you go..... top one, in stainless steel if you don't want the hassle of drying it and looking after it, 01 if you don't mind that.

http://www.lakelandbushcraft.co.uk/a...ra_Knives.html

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