4X4 Advice

**delbach** · 07-01-2010, 22:26

My girlfriend has decided she would like a 4x4,which she is hoping to buy in july,she has it down to three .What i would like to know is,does anyone have any experience of the models in the short list. I know nothing about cars i don't even have a licence,so all your help is much appreciated.The models in the short list are
Freelander 2
Toyota Rav 4
Honda CRV ,i think that's what it's called.
Thanks in advance Andrew

**lewist1993** · 07-01-2010, 22:38

Is she actually going to use it off road? If she is then rav 4 is the best of the 3 but if it is going to be another chelsea tractor then I would say dont bother (not that I have anything against 4x4s, in-fact I own several) , it works out cheeper and more practical to go for a large car instead.

Freelander= unreliable
Rav 4= best choice of 3
honda crv= useless 4x4 system

Has she considered a nissan x-trail, reliable and remarkably good off road

Lewis

**windward** · 07-01-2010, 22:43

Rav 4...think a new one came out recently too. I've got the hilux...great toy in this weather!! Very reliable vehicles.

V.

**avalon** · 07-01-2010, 23:40

Hi Andrew. I have a Nissan X-trail which has performed very well for me so far, on and off road. The only downside to it, is it could do with a bit more ground clearance (but that would then affect its road handling). also it doesn't have a low range gear box, but you would only need this if you are crawling over big rocks or extremley rough ground. As an all round, reasonably economical car though it does the job.
Hope this is of some help,
Michael.

**Omegarod** · 08-01-2010, 02:58

When in Africa I often hire a RAV4
Its solid, reliable and will do most things.
(But it ain't a Land Rover Defender)

Rod

**scottishwolf** · 08-01-2010, 04:13

Disregard all three and buy a proper 4x4 if you want a 4x4. Defender all the way for tough stuff but not too comfy as a daily commuter vehicle. Trooper, the older one with the 2.8td it's a proper workhorse, I fitted the engine and the running gear to my old frontera with 240k on the clock and it was weet as a nut, disco 300tdi but not without it's problems and repair bills, older rangerover........depends on yer budget and expectations of the vehicle though. Remember the costs of running a 4x4 will be far greater than a car. Although, proper servicing and care of any motor will or should ensure a reliable vehicle.

**Chris G** · 08-01-2010, 07:01

I'm glad that the x-trail gets a few good votes; I'm thinking of buying one. I've had two discos in the past and I've ruled out defenders due to lack of creature comforts. As it'll be a family bus most of the time and an off road vehicle about 5% of the time the x-trail seems to be the best one to go for.

Thanks

**British Red** · 08-01-2010, 08:15

Rav 4 from that list of 3 although the Freelander 2 is a very capable car in the "mini 4x4" stakes. The Toyota will be far more reliable however. The CRV is a soft roader at best.

I recall a Borda instructor showing what small 4x4s (often with fixed distribution of power to fornt and rear wheels could do). His advice was "drive it like you stole it"

**Cogola** · 08-01-2010, 08:52

What about the new Subaru Forester. Good ground clearance and surprisingly good offroad.

**Rob** · 08-01-2010, 08:53

Originally Posted by British Red

I recall a Borda instructor showing what small 4x4s (often with fixed distribution of power to fornt and rear wheels could do). His advice was "drive it like you stole it"

Oh yes

It always used to amaze me just how many Suzuki's would swarm around all over the place on off road sites. Pedal to the metal and they just seem to skip across the mud. They do reach a point where they do sink in, but you have to be playing pretty hard to get there.

Nearly had one land on the roof of the defender once, it drove up a bench in a quarry and got airbourne at the top.

Red? Freelander 2? Small? lol they are nice but they are as wide as a bus

**Salix** · 08-01-2010, 09:11

Toyota Hi lux all the way !!!!!!!!!!!

**TallMikeM** · 08-01-2010, 09:29

Originally Posted by scottishwolf

Disregard all three and buy a proper 4x4 if you want a 4x4. Defender all the way for tough stuff but not too comfy as a daily commuter vehicle. Trooper, the older one with the 2.8td it's a proper workhorse, I fitted the engine and the running gear to my old frontera with 240k on the clock and it was weet as a nut, disco 300tdi but not without it's problems and repair bills, older rangerover........depends on yer budget and expectations of the vehicle though. Remember the costs of running a 4x4 will be far greater than a car. Although, proper servicing and care of any motor will or should ensure a reliable vehicle.

Proper 4x4's are good if you're going off road a lot, or towing heavy loads. But they don't offer the same comfort levels, at a budget, of some of the off roaders. They also have poor economy. If someone feels they want 4WD for on road driving, then a soft roader is the way to go.

I personally would add a hyundai santa fe to the list. Not the best off road (but if that's what the vehicle is for then she should get a proper off roader) but cavernous boot (why I bought ours) and it's been flawless in the snow and ice.

**Muddy Boots** · 08-01-2010, 09:40

Originally Posted by Salix

Toyota Hi lux all the way !!!!!!!!!!!

+1 for the Hilux

This one is mine and here is a forum to have a play with and get advice.

http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/

**Leonidas** · 08-01-2010, 09:43

Originally Posted by TallMikeM

Proper 4x4's are good if you're going off road a lot, or towing heavy loads. But they don't offer the same comfort levels.............
They also have poor economy.........

Proper 4x4 with comfort and reasonable mpg?

Range Rover P38 is my motorway armchair and offroad beastie..
Get up to 22mpg on a long run 18 > 20mpg average.....not bad for a stage 1 chipped V8

Put into perspective my 5 series BMW only gave me 25mpg.....
Anyone thinking 40+mpg is not really looking for a proper 4x4 vehicle....a dedicated 4x4 drive train will not provide such mpg...
In this weather, mpg is academic if your vehicle fails to do it's job....to get you to the shops / Doctors / Hospital etc.....it reverts to being a metal box effectively frozen to the drive....

Tom

**Andy2112** · 08-01-2010, 09:43

Have you considered the Suzuki Grand Vitara ?

**tjwuk** · 08-01-2010, 10:17

Definately Toyota, hilux, rav4, or landcruiser. After having owned, rebuilt, repaired and agonised of several different Land Rovers quite simply I wouldn't bother unless you like messing with vehicles and want greasy hands forever.

Even my last, Disco 300TDi, bulletproof engine! (basically the same as the 200 tdi) When I realised what they use for pushrod seals and nearly a blown engine, I simply gave up.

**DavidJT** · 08-01-2010, 10:17

Originally Posted by avalon

Hi Andrew. I have a Nissan X-trail which has performed very well for me so far, on and off road. The only downside to it, is it could do with a bit more ground clearance (but that would then affect its road handling). also it doesn't have a low range gear box, but you would only need this if you are crawling over big rocks or extremley rough ground. As an all round, reasonably economical car though it does the job.
Hope this is of some help,
Michael.

Another vote for the X-Trail, I've had two. Very reliable, great family car, not bad off road.

**TallMikeM** · 08-01-2010, 10:18

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Proper 4x4 with comfort and reasonable mpg?

Range Rover P38 is my motorway armchair and offroad beastie..
Get up to 22mpg on a long run 18 > 20mpg average.....not bad for a stage 1 chipped V8

Put into perspective my 5 series BMW only gave me 25mpg.....
Anyone thinking 40+mpg is not really looking for a proper 4x4 vehicle....a dedicated 4x4 drive train will not provide such mpg...
In this weather, mpg is academic if your vehicle fails to do it's job....to get you to the shops / Doctors / Hospital etc.....it reverts to being a metal box effectively frozen to the drive....

Tom

you've kinda proved my point.

My santa fe does return 40+ MPG, is comfortable and has performed in this weather. Most (diesel, for the economy) soft roaders will do that.

I did say that if the OP wants to go proper off roading then he is gonna need a proper offroad vehicle, as no soft roader will come close.
If, however, and I think we can assume this from his shortlist, he wants something that will handle poor road condidtions and still want a car like drive, within a reasonable (i.e. non range rover) budget, then a soft roader should be his choice.

**myotis** · 08-01-2010, 10:20

I have a Honda CRV, but its not really a 4x4. Only a small increase in ground clearance compared to a normal car, no low ratio gears and the 4wd only kicks in when Honda thinks its needed: no manual option.

I wouldn't take it anywhere that I wouldn't take a car, but it does make muddy camping grounds and snowy roads that bit less tricky. Having said that, last year when we had more snow here than this year, I was impressed at how it effortlessly ploughed through bumper height snow.

As its really a road car, it has road tyres on it so that makes a difference in its off-road capability.

The slightly higher driving position is good for looking over hedges when on the look out for wildlife in fields (geese, deer etc) but its noisier and bumpier to drive than a "normal" car, and in spite of appearances it probably has no more carrying space than the Honda accord it replaced. The boxy shape possibly makes it a more useful space than the accord however. Fuel on a long run is pretty good and we get over 50mpg on a long run, but local running is around 42-44 mpg (Diesel)

This is our 4th Honda (with breaks for a Toyota and a Citroen) and the selling point is the reliability. It seems that once you own a Honda its difficult not to buy another one. And to be fair it meets my requirements, of being reliable, of giving a little bit of extra confidence in mud and snow, a higher driving position for wildlife watching and reasonable fuel consumption.

Graham

**southey** · 08-01-2010, 10:33

Go Jeep Dude and she will love it! the new diesel model gives around 30 to 38 mpg, And they have four door models,

**EdS** · 08-01-2010, 10:34

fiat panda - if she wants a car with All Wheel Drive. If she want a 4x4 ie "off roader" none from the list. That said Freeelander 1 can be easily modded to make a half decent dirt track vehicle - better than the others by a long chalk. So advice here:

http://www.freelanderclub.org/

Excellent in this weather. but like with any car 2WD or 4WD the correct tyres make all the difference.

**Chris G** · 08-01-2010, 11:59

Interesting that the best options so far all come from Japan, and mostly have the Toyota badge on the front. Lets also not forget that in Oz the Toyota is the desert barge of choice, so it must to pretty well in the hot/sand as well.

To the Hi Lux owners out there; what sort of MPG do you get and how big is the boot?

Chris

**Bootstrap Bob** · 08-01-2010, 12:03

Originally Posted by lewist1993

Is she actually going to use it off road? If she is then rav 4 is the best of the 3 but if it is going to be another chelsea tractor then I would say dont bother (not that I have anything against 4x4s, in-fact I own servile) , it works out cheeper and more practical to go for a large car instead.

Freelander= unreliable
Rav 4= best choice of 3
honda crv= useless 4x4 system

I think your unreliabilty of the Freelander is based on Freelander 1 not 2. As far as off road performance is concerned yes the Rav 4 is pretty good (as are most Suzukis) but Freelander is definitely best in class. This is not just my opinion, it is based on actually trials - it's part of my job.

I personally drive a 2005 Subaru Forester, not a full blown SUV but has loads of ground clearance, levelling rear suspension, locking diffs, plenty of power and handles very well in the dry. It also came out well in trials off road when tested some years ago.

Like has already been mentioned though, Defender is the only way for severe off road. If you never go off the tarmac don't bother with a 4WD. If you just want a higher driving position consider a people carrier or soft roader or one of the pretend ones (front wheel drive).

Nissan X-trail was pretty good too in the comparison trials but I have no personnal experience of it.

One vehicle that seems to be making waves at the moment is the Skoda Yeti 4x4. I have not had the opportunity to try it yet but on paper it should be pretty good.

**TallMikeM** · 08-01-2010, 12:21

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bob

I think your unreliabilty of the Freelander is based on Freelander 1 not 2. As far as off road performance is concerned yes the Rav 4 is pretty good (as are most Suzukis) but Freelander is definitely best in class. This is not just my opinion, it is based on actually trials - it's part of my job.

I personally drive a 2005 Subaru Forester, not a full blown SUV but has loads of ground clearance, levelling rear suspension, locking diffs, plenty of power and handles very well in the dry. It also came out well in trials off road when tested some years ago.

Like has already been mentioned though, Defender is the only way for severe off road. If you never go off the tarmac don't bother with a 4WD. If you just want a higher driving position consider a people carrier or soft roader or one of the pretend ones (front wheel drive).

Nissan X-trail was pretty good too in the comparison trials but I have no personnal experience of it.

One vehicle that seems to be making waves at the moment is the Skoda Yeti 4x4. I have not had the opportunity to try it yet but on paper it should be pretty good.

do you have a link to those off road trials you mention? I reckon they'd make some interesting reading.

**Leonidas** · 08-01-2010, 12:39

Originally Posted by TallMikeM

you've kinda proved my point.

My santa fe does return 40+ MPG, is comfortable and has performed in this weather. Most (diesel, for the economy) soft roaders will do that.

I did say that if the OP wants to go proper off roading then he is gonna need a proper offroad vehicle, as no soft roader will come close.
If, however, and I think we can assume this from his shortlist, he wants something that will handle poor road condidtions and still want a car like drive, within a reasonable (i.e. non range rover) budget, then a soft roader should be his choice.

The mpg is an obvious one...
Was mainly in response to 'Proper 4x4's are good if you're going off road a lot, or towing heavy loads. But they don't offer the same comfort levels'

Just clarifying that a proper 4x4 can be comfy, that's all really

Tom

**EdS** · 08-01-2010, 12:46

Renault Kango 4x4 are pretty good to - if you can find one, especially with the old XUD 1.9Td

**TallMikeM** · 08-01-2010, 12:46

Originally Posted by Leonidas

The mpg is an obvious one...
Was mainly in response to 'Proper 4x4's are good if you're going off road a lot, or towing heavy loads. But they don't offer the same comfort levels'

Just clarifying that a proper 4x4 can be comfy, that's all really

Tom

yes they can, but they also tend to be above the budget of most soft roaders. From the shortlist presented by the OP, which are all of a similar price, we can deduce his budget. So I'll see your

and raise you a :wink

**Martyn** · 08-01-2010, 12:47

From that list, the Freelander is the most capable offroad vehicle, but if dependability is an issue for your lady and she is not going to take it off road seriously, then I would go for the Toyota. Like Ed says, for offroad, tyres make all the difference no matter what you are driving.

**Matt Weir** · 08-01-2010, 12:53

Originally Posted by Salix

Toyota Hi lux all the way !!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed, I miss mine but have a L200 Warrior now so it's all good

**EdS** · 08-01-2010, 12:54

make a differnce on road as well.

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