City living challenge

[tytek]

I have posted this question on the 'Trueways' forum with some good results.

Now it's your turn.

Here's the challenge...

How would you manage or more to the point sustain yourself in the big bad city using only survival skills???

No money, no fixed abode, no phone (tough one), no friends......

Your thoughts?

[Toddy]

I have friends who lived (sometimes still do)this way. It's not easy, it's not clean, it's not fun.
They became very lean, very aggressive, very, very quick at spotting an opportunity, a free thing, in some ways an entire moral shift. What wasn't tied down (or unprisable ) was their's if they wanted it. Always on the look out for the next chance, meal, warmth, drink. Like living in a parallel universe one said. Other people's opinion of them, social opprobium, social rules, quickly became unimportant, didn't impinge on their lives.
Still recognisably themselves though, and still friends, just they went kind of feral.
The Scots on the forum who've met some of them will understand exactly what I mean.
Bushcraft played no part. Urban foraging aka midgie raking, did. Parkland is generally devoid of much that is of any use beyond an occasional overnighter unless a society is created there. i.e the Pollok Free State or the Peace Camps.

cheers,
Toddy

[Cap'n Badger]

Now here's a thing.....good question matey.
When I first moved from the wilds into the big bad city, all I had was a guitar an' a sleepin' bag.....(plus the clothes I was wearin').
I slept rough fer a few weeks in Bute park an' busked durin' the day t' get gold fer eats, smokes an' beer.....(couldn't get dole or jsa at the time cos I had no address).
Skip raidin' was the 'norm'....usually tescos or asda stores......they threw away loads o' stuff that was only 'just' out o' date. So a veritable bonanza till they introduced the polocy o' cuttin' the packagein' an' pourin' bleach on the stuff!...grrr.
Squatted a couple o' houses wi' a few drugies fer a few weeks....or until they sussed we were there, an' turfed us out.
I think the only time I ever used 'bushcraft' skills was t' shelter from the wind an' rain in the park under a canvas tarp I nicked from a buildin' site...lol
Tryin' t' do it now would be hard.....but not impossible......I think ifin it all went bottom up in this country...I'd agree wi' Toddy...most would go 'feral'....but then there are some who would try t' organise an' re-establish society......btw....the new seires o' survivors is back on a week tuesday. loved the original runnin' as a kid.

[tjwuk]

Humans are wasteful, and the bins are always overflowing. Charity shops have bags left outside sometimes! Need I say more. Just walking around there are loads of opportunities, if you don't stay alert you don't last.

I have known a few people get arrested to get a meal and a bed for the night. The list is endless, but interesting, its only the rest of us that stay within the law that don't always see what goes on.

[Spikey DaPikey]

I agree with Toddy, in that i think most people would go Feral, unless like Cap't you have a skill you can use to make money in a legal manner.

[John Fenna]

The only way I can see me thriving if left penniless and friendless in a city is to walk out into the countryside where I am more in my comfort zone.
I hate cities at the best of times and can never see any good reason to stay in one, especially if I was penniless and friendless with nothing to hold me there!

[swyn]

Very interesting thread. I honestly think I would not last long as I've never lived in a city. I hitch-hiked in Europe many years ago and that was an interesting experience. Very tiring but creeping around un noticed and washing in fountains was good, the majority was not. The hitching was an experience in its own right. Of course the weather was beautiful. So was the countryside.
I agree with John in that I would end up in the countryside by default as that is what I understand.
Toddy and Cap'n Badger you both paint an interesting picture. I suppose you really do adapt but as I have never had to, the thought process is not one I can follow easily.

Swyn.

[Paul3103]

The only way I can see me thriving if left penniless and friendless in a city is to walk out into the countryside where I am more in my comfort zone.
I hate cities at the best of times and can never see any good reason to stay in one, especially if I was penniless and friendless with nothing to hold me there!

I totally agree, and I couldn't have put it better.

What makes someone who's homeless want to sleep rough in Peckham? A few coupons from the daily star, and they can be in the south of France in a few days?

It amuses me that winos choice or beer is Tennants - anyone see the irony?

Go in the city/town, get what you need and get back out into the woods.

[Nigel]

I think there is plenty of homeless people up and down the country who could tell you how to survive on the streets and how difficult the reality is.

[Kerne]

I think there is plenty of homeless people up and down the country who could tell you how to survive on the streets and how difficult the reality is.

Interesting thread!

Considering the homeless on the streets of London and other large cities - begging is often a large part of their survival method. Otherwise, wouldn't it be "easier" to be homeless in the countryside? Foraging/trapping etc. - of course, you'd have to have the skills. If one were "voluntarily" homeless then move to the country BUT, many homeless people have associated drug/alcohol/mental health issues and, for others, there is probably more possibility of getting off the streets in a city with charities/Salvation Army/hostels etc.

[Oblio13]

As an airline pilot, I lay over in cities all over the world, and I frequently wander around looking for what I call "urban wilderness" - little overgrown pockets where nobody goes. I have frequently stumbled into whole "villages" of homeless people along river banks, in highway medians, etc. I often smell them before I see them.

Foraging in a city would be much easier than in the country. Thrift shops, dumpsters, construction sites, outright theft, etc. Anything unsecured, as Toddy mentioned.

I think the biggest problem would be security - finding a place where you could rest easy and not worry about your things being stolen. Most homeless people have either drug addictions or mental illnesses, and they prey on each other like animals. They undoubtedly spread diseases and parasites to each other as well.

The mobility and load-carrying ability of a bicycle would be useful. Make the rounds, then skeddadle to a hidden, private camp. A bicycle would make you look at least marginally more "respectable", too - good "urban camouflage".

There's plenty of healthy wild meat in cities that's much easier to approach than it would be in other settings. Squirrels, pigeons, ducks, rats, etc. The problem is figuring out a discrete way of harvesting it. You could keep yourself well-fed with a suppressed .22 pistol, some rat traps and a few snares, at least until you got caught.

[tytek]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Running to the hills is not an option - the city limits are as far as you are allowed.

Having lived in a city all my life I should be able to survive a week, a month, indefinately - that could be tricky.

It's not just food, water and warmth that are factors here.
Personal safety and appearance are big issues to me.
People act very differently to you as to how you appear.

Keep the suggestions coming

[Toddy]

Hmmmm, methinks your scenario is unrepresentative of real life.
We can go where we choose. There are no 'city limits', no borders to the countryside. The society we live in may have many flaws but those freedoms have been established since England got rid of it's serf laws.

Maybe it's a different world view from bushcraft to survival

I know how my friends survived living indigent and homeless in cities. Would I do it ? Not a chance, I'd take the walk.

cheers,
Toddy

[tytek]

I agree with you Toddy - you do have the choice to leave.
I'm trying to get ideas for those who choose not to.

[Toddy]

Then find friends and social agencies. Do not cheese off the police; a police record is a real issue in the way to employment.
Suss out the hostels and the soup kitchens.
They'll see you have a chance at a decent nights sleep, something in your belly and a chance to get clean and organise clothing. They also have contacts that might get you hourly work.

Better chance of moving on healthily that way.

Or are you asking so that someone can be totally Lone Wolf ?

cheers,
M

[locum76]

from what I've heard living in such a way in the city is extremely difficult and dangerous (severe risk of being bullied and mugged) but its easier to eat. Living in the country in this way severely reduces your opportunites to gather food. You don't find many early morning bread deliveries in the sticks.

With your scenario the hardest part would be finding a secure place to stay. I always look for camping/ hummocking spots in the city but you can guarantee that if its secluded enough, the local youth will have colonized it too. Sadly, this may often make it a bit dangerous especially for any marginalised/ different people.

I've thought about being in the position in your scenario many times. If I found myself there (unlikely as I have an exceptional group of friends and family) I would definitely head for somewhere like tinkers bubble or similar. (the names of the well established Scottish tinkers sites evade me right now).

[locum76]

Suss out the hostels and the soup kitchens.
They'll see you have a chance at a decent nights sleep, something in your belly and a chance to get clean and organise clothing. They also have contacts that might get you hourly work.

The queues are getting bigger.

[Davey569]

The mobility and load-carrying ability of a bicycle would be useful. Make the rounds, then skeddadle to a hidden, private camp. A bicycle would make you look at least marginally more "respectable", too - good "urban camouflage".

I saw someone not so long back who pitched a tent right on the edge of a shopping centre There was a bike chained to a tree and nobody seemed to approach it, less than an hour later it was gone. And I saw the footprints and biketracks in the frost. Nobody had approached.

There's plenty of healthy wild meat in cities that's much easier to approach than it would be in other settings. Squirrels, pigeons, ducks, rats, etc. The problem is figuring out a discrete way of harvesting it. You could keep yourself well-fed with a suppressed .22 pistol, some rat traps and a few snares, at least until you got caught.

Yup this is pretty much what Id do.

[locum76]

you wouldn't need a .22.

you'd just need some stale bread. if you sat at parkbench scattered the bread around you and waited - you 'd be able to catch pigeons in your hands while sitting down.

city vermin for dinner though, blech.

[hog]

I would rather be on my own and lost in a large forrest than a large city.

[durulz]

I kind of did something like this for 6 months.
After I graduated (a scary number of years ago now) I felt rather lost and aimless (like most arts graduates) and didn't really know what I wanted to do or where I wanted to go.
So I voluntarily chose to be homeless and wander. I didn't see it like that at the time though (that would have been a bit crass). I can't remember what my real motivation was at the time, it'd be too easy to say something like 'find myself', because that'd be both right and wrong.
Anyway.
I spent my time going from town to town along the south coast. Sometimes I'd only spend a night in a town, sometimes a week or two. It would all depend on what opportunities and situations offered themselves. It's fair to say that I existed solely by taking part in illegal activities. Mostly just petty acts of theft. But seriously crossed the line a couple of times. Learnt a few tricks of urban survival (man), but I won't mention them since they are illegal and there's no need to give details.
Urban areas offer good opportunities for all manner of down-at-heels gain. Mostly because of the increased number of people (and, therefore, waste) in towns and cities. I never slept rough in towns though. If I couldn't find somewhere to squat then I headed out of town into the countryside for the night - easier to hide and disappear and not be woken by someone beating the living daylights out of you for things you don't have.
I found smaller cities/towns better than large cities - it's not easy to walk out of London for the night, but you can wander in and out of Portsmouth pretty easily.
I managed quite well. Never really went hungry (well, not THAT hungry). But that may because I knew I could end it at anytime (a quick phone call home would have got me away) and, therefore, my motivation was high at all times. And I've never really had too many problems breaking some laws, to be honest.
Others have mentioned how 'going feral' and being a moral chameleon are important factors. And that's absolutely right. Was in my case. With all the laws and restrictions in place, it's hard to see how you couldn't be in that situation.

[Chris the Cat]

I was homeless in Leeds in the 1980's for a while.
The two things I remember the most are the cold and the way time drags!
C da C.

[Oblio13]

I would rather be on my own and lost in a large forrest than a large city.

Surviving on our own in a forest is a romantic notion that probably everyone on this forum shares. But the reality is that it's extremely difficult. In the military I went to survival schools for a number of different environments, and lost a lot of weight at every one of them. The best thing I ever caught to eat was a small raccoon, and that was pure luck - it was up in a tree as I was wading through a swamp, and I was able to knock it down with a frog gig and hold it under water. It was a feast. Most wild foods are bland, and it's almost impossible to gather enough calories unless you're extremely well-equipped and in a game-rich environment. Even indigenous peoples, who were true experts with a tremendous amount of knowledge that's since been lost, starved to death on a regular basis.

[tytek]

I was homeless in Leeds in the 1980's for a while.

Where about's in Leeds did you stay?
Leeds is a very different place to how it was in the 80's - especially the centre.

[Tengu]

Im ok for inning and outing. I have a bus pass.

Ive even got a companion on it. Anyone want to come with me?

[Klenchblaize]

This reminds me of a chapter in Archie Hill's book "A Cage Full of Shadows" when whilst in prison, for stealing to survive, he asks himself why he did not simply retire to the woods as would John Fenna and deploy the skills learnt from "Old Conk" his childhood mentor and poacher.

Notwithstanding there was alcohol problem involved; not much of that to be had on-tap from a hedgerow, I can't recall what he put his oversight down to unless it was the realisation that poaching and trespass had got him into similar trouble with the law.

Cheers

[Joonsy]

This reminds me of a chapter in Archie Hill's book "A Cage Full of Shadows" when whilst in prison, for stealing to survive, he asks himself why he did not simply retire to the woods as would John Fenner and deploy the skills learnt from "Old Conk" his childhood mentor and poacher.

he did later in life in an experimental three month period told in his book ''The Second Meadow'' when he lived in a wood at Kinver, Archie Hill's books are good reads especially for anyone with a black country connection, however he lived his later years in a caravan in Hampshire where he commited suicide by hanging himself i believe.

[m.durston]

this is an interesting thread to say the least.
in my current job as a pay n display machine engineer naturally my job revolves in travelling around the town centre checking my machines in the various car parks. in the 5 years of doing this job i've met most of the 'down n outs' as they have camped out under concrete bivis and witnessed the squalor that they live in.

i know with my company and the council there has been a real purge in getting the homeless to vacate the various dark corners that they inhabit and 'clean' the area up. methods include painting the concrete interior of the car parks white and installing better lighting, adding the odd security dog patrol and instigating a bylaw stating it is illegal to use the premises to eat,drink, or cook food and camp overnight!
admittedly this has been in response to junkies and alcoholics leaving their paraphenalia scattered around ie used needles, empty cans/bottles, and my personal favourite the dominoes pizza box filled with turds lol

at lot of the homeless used to raid the bins round the back of retailers and used to get some tasty treats from marks n spencers, until the store introduced a policy of emptying everything from the packaging and spoiling it with bleach (exactly how cap'n badger describes)

these measures have forced a few away from the area but everyone else heads towards the homeless shelters but these are overwhelmed some nights and cannot provide the bedspaces needed. they also do a policy of something like 14 overnight stays followed by the individual barred for a month, then they are allowed back again for another 14 nights etc.

bearing all this in mind when i type my response on how i would survive in a city, i would steal everything i needed to survive in the countryside ie nick a tarpaulin from a building site etc with a view of going back into town to either forage in private individuals bins or shoplift from supermarkets if all else fails.

[Klenchblaize]

he did later in life in an experimental three month period told in his book ''The Second Meadow'' when he lived in a wood at Kinver, Archie Hill's books are good reads especially for anyone with a black country connection, however he lived his later years in a caravan in Hampshire where he commited suicide by hanging himself i believe.

Yes, I have that book too and as serialised by Radio 4.

Very sad as it sounds like he never did find that "3rd Meadow" of self expression.

The point I was trying to make though is his 3 month "experiment" was with landowner permission. Try doing what he did without consent and you'll be enjoying 3 meals a day courtesy of HMPS along with the unfortunate city feral types!

Cheers

[Glen]

A few years ago while in Paris I noticed that an artist had donated a number of 1-2 person pop up tents to the local homeless.

They may be somewhat ( a kilo or 2 ? ) heavier than an equivalent sized non pop up tent but the advantage is they can be pitched easily on hard surfaces. A couple of layers of scavenged cardboard would do as a sleepmat as inside it shouldn't get wet and soggy in the rain.