bushcrafters or gear geeks?

[Peter_t]

im sorry but im going to have a bit of a rant

ok this is in reply to many tedious threads about kit, typically gortex V ventile

a while ago i was given a thin nylon waterproof. its made by peter storm and its coated on the inside with a thin layer of rubbery plastic stuff (no idea). i wear it at work as well as for bushcrafty activities and i have never got overly hot and sticky in it even while doing loads of firewood or dismantling trees - trust me that’s hot and sticky work

ok my jacket nothing fancy, it doesn't cost £200 but it does the job!


im a bit confused by some guys, what do you do to get so unbearably hot and sweaty? have you not heard of layers? you start to sweat, take a layer off, better still take off layers beforehand. in winter im often in little more than a t-shirt under my coat if working hard.

have some gone soft? you get slightly damp and uncomfortable, its not the end of the world. chances are your in the UK not the arctic so your not going to freeze to death if you sweat a little bit.


don't take this the wrong way but i think many people on here need to lighten up a bit about what kit they have and get down to what’s important in bushcraft - getting out there and doing it!

this applies to axes, tarps etc. not just waterproofs

rant over
pete

[locum76]

:...

bushcrafters AND gear geeks.

[helixpteron]

Funny how the OP derides the users and the use of Gear, whilst utilizing some of the most sophisticated Gear on Earth, and in orbit, to make his post!

[mart]

I think the importance or not, of what you wear is only relevant in extreme circumstances. I could, and have gone fell running in next to nothing, vest shorts trainers in the rain, off and on. Because i kept moving i was fine. However if I twisted my ankle, got benighted and it was pissing hypothermia would be right at the front of my list of worries. A bum bag with a packlight jacket in it would in that situation save a life.

Mart.

[Melonfish]

I think your missing the point tbh there Peter, its not about the latest gucci gear, well alright for some it is. but for most its about what works for them. Each of us are different and our comfort levels vary wildly, where one person will wander out with a duck cotton jacket in the p***ing rain another may need a shell layer that allows them to breathe a bit and not sweat to death and another may need some sort of bubble like barrier that stops rain even coming within feet of them!

personally i don't own much kit that costs a fortune, for the main reason i can't afford it. But for some items i like to spend that extra to make ME comfortable in the bush, you can't really put a price tag on that. so please don't say we're going soft its just that, well we grew up in different environments and what we find comfortable you may not.

[Jaysurfer]

I don't think it has anything to do with what people NEED...
The only thing any of us NEED is water, food and shelter.

The fact oif the matter is we live in a consumer society (unfortunately) some ppl will be happy with 'basics' some will always want more or want what is percieved to be the best.
Some want 'the best' but can't afford it, some want it and can afford it so buy it and whatever else they want and others can afford it but don't want it.

Everyone is different, the nice thing with bushcraft is that anyone can do it on any kind of budget.
The even nicer thing is that bushcrafters (most of the time) are always happy to offer advice, help and let novices borrow gear.
Everyone is different but that is what makes us individuals.
Does it really matter if someone wants the best gear or most expensive or even if someone is on a budget. I don't think there is any cause for snobbish behaviour in bushcraft or over kit, just because something is more expensive or deemed to be better, doesn't mean something cheaper or 'inferior' doesn't work.
I've seen some walk around in bin bags before now becaus ethey didn't 'need' waterproofs when they could make their own...

[Martyn]

don't take this the wrong way but i think many people on here need to lighten up a bit

...dont take this the wrong way, but maybe you should take a leaf out of your own book?

If people want to collect gear, why shouldn't they it's their money? They are not hurting you or anyone else.

Relax dude, it's just the internet.

[coln18]

I dont think Peter was trying to say that anyone who buys expensive kit is in the wrong, he maybe just cares deeply about his bushcraft and was trying to point out that some people maybe go on a bit about kit rather than being out there actually in the field bushcrafting.

I myself buy too much kit, but still, to me the most important thing is just being out there doing my thing.

It does amaze me how upset people can get when someone challenges their way of life and how they operate. Maybe the guy had a bad day and just wanted a rant, as he said, so why dont we all just chill out...

P.S Nobody had better rant at me for defending him - i might cry (im one of the softies hes talking about)

All the best and have a nice day

Colin

[jambowl]

There was a lot I wanted to say in response to this thread but decided against it.
For me bushcraft is about surviving and thriving in the natural environment, and the acquisition of ancient skills and knowledge to do so, not about what kit you have and how expensive it is.

[tobes01]

In my case - Bushcrafter AND gear geek. I love being out, I love having comfortable kit and quality tools. I fully recognise that most of my gear is far better than my skills to use it (hence the "big hat, no cattle") but what the hell - it gives me pleasure. Nothing wrong in that.

[hog]

Jeeez Guys who cares who is wearing what, just do it whatever, and for the record all my gear is cheap and probably nasty.

[Nagual]

I'm in an odd mood today, so I'll add my thoughts into this thread, when I'd normally avoid it like the plague. First of all these comments aren't meant to annoy or insult anyone, they are just my humble opinion, so please take them as such.

Who really cares what other people are talking about? Unless you're out with them it really doesn't effect you in any way. Everyone is built differently, fat thin small and tall, some people sweat more some less, some people are uber fit others can't walk more than a few yards. All these factors will affect their choice of kit, whether it's coats, boots or anything. Some people have a bit of cash to spare, others save up. Some people like having the latest gear, again whether or not it's clothes, ipod, phones, tvs, bikes or cars.

What people do for the love of their hobby shouldn't invite rants or ridicule. Live and let live. If what they like, makes them enjoy what they do, then all the better.


Cheers

[coln18]

peter, quick run, they know where you live and are coming to get you!!!!

In conclusion to sum the general opinion on this matter -

LIVE AND LET LIVE

Lets put this one to bed guys, there are to many threads about kit snobs and thrifty diy bushcrafters, each to their own i say, why have a go at someone else for the way they live their lives, there is always something you can learn and take from someone in bushcraft.

Now as for that BEAR GRYLLS - (Only kidding he he!!!!!)


Colin

[John Fenna]

I am a bushcrafter and professional gear geek!
I used to design for such folk as Craghoppers, have written books on DIY clothing and equipment, still write gear review columns for national magazines (and have done for years!) and the majority of my income comes from gear geekiness!

You should be paying me to contribute to such threads - but I do it for the love of being a gear geek!

[locum76]

...and another may need some sort of bubble like barrier that stops rain even coming within feet of them!

I need one of these.

[coln18]

very good locum

i have a feeling that Peter may be keeping his head down and that maybe next time he feels like a rant he hides his computer keyboard....

Colin

[Broch]

I need one of these.

I assume you're talking about the umbrella Thing not the girl? Otherwise, that's two of us!

I find that my fortunes come and go in cycles. When I have no money I can make do with very basic gear; when I have some I tend to buy the best quality I can justify knowing that it will outlast and out perform the cheap stuff and see me through the downturns. However, I must admit, I always stay clear of buying 'names' for names sake.

Broch

[RAPPLEBY2000]

I'm a Bushcrafter and a gear geek.

got a problem with it?

surely does it really matter, as long as it get's people out and about.

who cares....I don't I enjoy bushcraft and I enjoy finding and using new kit.
If i wasn't into bushcraft I'd be into survival, if not that, wilderness camping if not that backwoods camping...etc etc.

get a life

find something useful to moan about.

[Martyn]

My personal philosophy...

Carry more, know less.

I'm sure the bushcraft police will be along shortly to arrest me, but until they do, I shall continue to be a shameless gear geek.

[Nonsuch]

I'm a gear geek. Is that OK ?

NS

[Toddy]

My personal philosophy...

Carry more, know less.

I'm sure the bushcraft police will be along shortly to arrest me, but until they do, I shall continue to be a shameless gear geek.

I like the gear, I just hate carrying it



atb,
M

[Peter_t]

I dont think Peter was trying to say that anyone who buys expensive kit is in the wrong, he maybe just cares deeply about his bushcraft and was trying to point out that some people maybe go on a bit about kit rather than being out there actually in the field bushcrafting.

thank you colin you have summed up my thoughts

bushcrafter and gear geek? imo this is a bit of a contradiction. is one of the main points in bushcraft not to replace gear with knowledge? i know we can't afford to cut down half a dozen trees for the sake of not carrying a shelter but i think my point is still valid otherwise we would just be campers. for this reason i try to limit myself to just essential equipment so to come close to nature and its resources but not so much as to do lasting damage.

Bushcraft is becoming too commercialised, not in its teaching but in equipment. Things are becoming labelled as bushcraft. before this new image of bushcraft came along mora knives where known as knives not bushcraft knives. I think this commercialisation is against the spirit of bushcraft and often makes bushcraft look like an expensive hobby with its must have axes and hammocks. Bushcraft certainly does not have to be expensive but this new image makes it seem so.


i am sorry if i have caused offence, i am just expressing my opinion.
pete

[Melonfish]

I need one of these.

DUDE! EPIC!

[John Fenna]

thank you colin you have summed up my thoughts

bushcrafter and gear geek? imo this is a bit of a contradiction. is one of the main points in bushcraft not to replace gear with knowledge? i know we can't afford to cut down half a dozen trees for the sake of not carrying a shelter but i think my point is still valid otherwise we would just be campers. for this reason i try to limit myself to just essential equipment so to come close to nature and its resources but not so much as to do lasting damage.

Bushcraft is becoming too commercialised, not in its teaching but in equipment. Things are becoming labelled as bushcraft. before this new image of bushcraft came along mora knives where known as knives not bushcraft knives. I think this commercialisation is against the spirit of bushcraft and often makes bushcraft look like an expensive hobby with its must have axes and hammocks. Bushcraft certainly does not have to be expensive but this new image makes it seem so.


i am sorry if i have caused offence, i am just expressing my opinion.
pete

Before it was all labeled "Bushcraft" it was all labeled "Survival" - salesmen jump on the latest buzz word to make their sales...the hobby stays as expensive as you want!

[BorderReiver]

This is an internet forum, as in "forum", where people discuss things that interest them.

[andythecelt]

i know we can't afford to cut down half a dozen trees for the sake of not carrying a shelter but i think my point is still valid otherwise we would just be campers.

pete

Eh? I am a camper. Whether it's in a field with my whole family in a 5 room tent or solo in the woods without a tent in December it's all camping. Bushcraft is just a different kind of camping to those people crammed in side by side in dayglo nylon tents. Why is it whether it's a kind of music, religion or a lifestyle as soon as it becomes popularised people start bangin on about it becoming "Too commercial"? Nobody is making anybody buy kit they don't want! Personally I'm delighted to see more variety and better techical specification in available kit, it's a hell of a lot easier than trying to make a tarp from half a canvas tent or a flint striker from zippo flints. Both things I started out doing.

It's a pastime, not a religion. There is no dogma. It's about personal freedom.

[Wayland]

I read less than 10% of the threads on here, more often than not I make my mind up just reading the title.

If I find a thread that's not my cup of tea I don't stress about it.

I have my own opinions about commercial kit, I buy some and I avoid some. If I can't get stuff I like I make it instead.

The one thing I have learned in all this time is that one man's meat is another man's poison. No one solution is going to suit every person in every environment and every lifestyle.

Personally I dislike walking around feeling like I'm wrapped in a crisp packet but I'm prepared to put up with the reduced performance and extra weight that natural materials entail. My choice and I'm happy with it.

I scanned the post you are referring to and didn't add anything because I didn't have anything useful to add. I'm sure some people enjoyed putting their opinion forward and perhaps some people learned from it. Isn't that what a forum is all about?

I'm sure we all prefer to be out and about doing stuff. I've walked my dog in two different woods today and I've spent some time kolrosing a trencher in between reading a book and watching Ray's last program. A fairly typical day I guess.

Just because I also find some time to browse the internet doesn't mean I'm being geeky and personally I find the tired refrain about getting out there and doing "Bushcraft" rather ironic when it's transmitted to me via a computer terminal.

[John Fenna]

I read less than 10% of the threads on here, more often than not I make my mind up just reading the title.

If I find a thread that's not my cup of tea I don't stress about it.

I have my own opinions about commercial kit, I buy some and I avoid some. If I can't get stuff I like I make it instead.

The one thing I have learned in all this time is that one man's meat is another man's poison. No one solution is going to suit every person in every environment and every lifestyle.

Personally I dislike walking around feeling like I'm wrapped in a crisp packet but I'm prepared to put up with the reduced performance and extra weight that natural materials entail. My choice and I'm happy with it.

I scanned the post you are referring to and didn't add anything because I didn't have anything useful to add. I'm sure some people enjoyed putting their opinion forward and perhaps some people learned from it. Isn't that what a forum is all about?

I'm sure we all prefer to be out and about doing stuff. I've walked my dog in two different woods today and I've spent some time kolrosing a trencher in between reading a book and watching Ray's last program. A fairly typical day I guess.

Just because I also find some time to browse the internet doesn't mean I'm being geeky and personally I find the tired refrain about getting out there and doing "Bushcraft" rather ironic when it's transmitted to me via a computer terminal.

Well said!
I spent most of my day indoors wearing the most rediculous clothing and wishing I was outside - first full run through of the the Panto I am in this season!

[Doc]

Well, of course people should buy whatever they want. Free country, and all that.

Still it's worth considering that on a basic wage, a Mora knife can be bought with 2 hours labour, but a Woodlore knife would take perhaps two weeks of work to buy.

Given that our most precious - and limited - possession is time, it might be wiser to spend two weeks out in wild country for the delight of it, rather than spending that fortnight grafting as a wage-slave to buy another shiney. But it's a personal choice.

And I will not deny that good kit is worth having - someone once said that when you buy really good binos, the pain of shelling out the cash is soon forgotten, but the delight is freshly there every time you use them. I've found that to be true.

[johnboy]

Well said!
I spent most of my day indoors wearing the most rediculous clothing and wishing I was outside - first full run through of the the Panto I am in this season!

Which end of the Panto Horse are you John?