Paper books, E-books and Big Brother.

**sandbender** · 18-07-2009, 10:32

I have many paper books and I also have a quite a few electronic books. I don't think that the E-book will replace the paper book anytime soon and hope that Amazon's concept for providing E-book's dies a quick death.

For those who are not familiar with Amazon's 'Kindle' it is an electronic E-book reader that can wirelessly connect to the Amazon store allowing you to download and read many book titles.

Unlike many other E-book readers the 'Kindle' E-books use a form of DRM to prevent you from reading those titles on another reader and selling on or giving away your second hand E-books.

More worryingly it is possible for Amazon to remotely 'erase' books that you have already purchased!

Recently two books which had been available for download from the Amazon store for three months were erased in just this manner, the customers had their credit cards refunded however obviously may people weren't too happy to find that items which they presumed they owned could be snatched back in this fashion.

Ironically the two titles in question were George Orwell's '1984' and 'Animal Farm'.

An Amazon spokesman reportedly commented "The war has always been with Eastasia".

More here and here.

**MartinK9** · 18-07-2009, 10:35

I go for audiobooks myself; I like the ability to listen to a book around the fire or in my hammock at night.

**korvin karbon** · 18-07-2009, 10:42

Originally Posted by MartinK9

I go for audiobooks myself; I like the ability to listen to a book arounfd the fire or in my hammock at night.

i have the complete lord of the rings, nowhere near finished LOL.

Until there is a decent ebook reader that can display diagrams, i wont be buying one soon.

**Humpback** · 18-07-2009, 11:16

Another audiobook fan.

I have a monthly subscription to Audible which makes a saving on one off purchases. Books can be put on several devices including my hammock reader.

Just finished Sharpe's Revenge (different ending to the TV show by the way).

Alan

PS I store images from bushcraft books, such as track ids, as jpegs on the same device including OS map sections which I can zoom into if needed.

**malente** · 18-07-2009, 11:34

Originally Posted by sandbender

More worryingly it is possible for Amazon to remotely 'erase' books that you have already purchased!

Recently two books which had been available for download from the Amazon store for three months were erased in just this manner, the customers had their credit cards refunded however obviously may people weren't too happy to find that items which they presumed they owned could be snatched back in this fashion.

This is scary

**Kerne** · 18-07-2009, 11:52

Can't see the point of an eBook if you can't lend it, write notes in the margin, pass in on to a jumble sale/charity shop/mate. Also, books don't need batteries, can be taken into the wilds without worrying about them being damaged and can serve as toilet paper if all else fails.

**korvin karbon** · 18-07-2009, 11:58

Originally Posted by Kerne

Can't see the point of an eBook if you can't lend it, write notes in the margin, pass in on to a jumble sale/charity shop/mate. Also, books don't need batteries, can be taken into the wilds without worrying about them being damaged and can serve as toilet paper if all else fails.

you can however carry an entire library with you. Some of the new ones only use power to change the page, the text displayed does not use power as magnetism is used ( i think LOL )

**Nagual** · 18-07-2009, 12:17

There have been some wonderful E-Book devices invented or developed over the years. One of the best I know of was one that made the page look like printed text, virtually identical, even the letters weren't unique. There was no refreshing of the page needed, so was just as easy on the eye to read.( which is my main complaint when reading large volumes of text online. However it was only a prototype, and hasn't gone into production.

**Mirius** · 18-07-2009, 13:06

Has the Kindle been launched in the UK? I thought it was only in the US?

Big brother antics aside, its had some extremely good write ups, though of course the blocking of anything non Amazon is almost inevitable.

**demographic** · 18-07-2009, 18:56

Originally Posted by sandbender

Ironically the two titles in question were George Orwell's '1984' and 'Animal Farm'.

An Amazon spokesman reportedly commented "The war has always been with Eastasia".

I don't see why you're so bothered, at least the chocolate rations have gone up again. I think its doubleplusgood

**sandbender** · 18-07-2009, 19:49

Originally Posted by demographic

I don't see why you're so bothered, at least the chocolate rations have gone up again. I think its doubleplusgood

Indeed, no oldthinking here, doubleplusgood comrade.

**Neanderthal** · 18-07-2009, 21:06

I'm 'reviewing'

a Sony eBook Reader (prs-505) for a customer at the moment and am quite impressed with this piece of kit.

A charge is good for about 7000 page turns and with 3 zoom levels the text is easy to read even in bright sunlight.

It takes memory sticks and SD cards so can hold as many ebooks as you care to carry.

As well as displaying jpegs in grey scale it can support PDFs, however you generally need to zoom in to read the text which can upset the formatting. It can also play MP3s but with a hit on the battery life.

I'm just trying to work out if a freeloader solar charger will work with it.

I've decided to buy one as for reading Novels it is great. FYI. They are £150 at play.com

Can't decide if to take it on the John Muir Trail in September, not so much for on the trail but it is 2 days to get there and nearly 4 days to get home.

Stu

**Tengu** · 20-07-2009, 11:30

Ive just got a Folio Society edition of Robert Graves Greek Myths.

**sandbender** · 20-07-2009, 12:09

Originally Posted by Mirius

"... the blocking of anything non Amazon is almost inevitable..."

I think most folks would accept that (I wouldn't), however to actually remotely remove a book from your machine that was bought several months previously seems a bit off. If a bloke from Amazon was to turn up on your doorstep with a refund cheque demanding that you hand over a book that they'd delivered some weeks earlier you probably wouldn't be best pleased.

The next stage will be educational publishers selling E-books books on the precondition that when they bring out a new edition they can remotely erase all the previous ones, no more end of term book sales!

**wanderingblade** · 20-07-2009, 12:56

Originally Posted by Neanderthal

I'm 'reviewing'

a Sony eBook Reader (prs-505) for a customer at the moment and am quite impressed with this piece of kit.

I had one of those last year. Very nice - great display and lots of great free books available here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page

Had to flog it unfortunately - but will get another when times are better.

**demographic** · 20-07-2009, 21:13

Originally Posted by sandbender

I think most folks would accept that (I wouldn't), however to actually remotely remove a book from your machine that was bought several months previously seems a bit off. If a bloke from Amazon was to turn up on your doorstep with a refund cheque demanding that you hand over a book that they'd delivered some weeks earlier you probably wouldn't be best pleased.

The next stage will be educational publishers selling E-books books on the precondition that when they bring out a new edition they can remotely erase all the previous ones, no more end of term book sales!

I wouldn't buy a book that someone could erase at a whim or I missed out on if I didn't get round to reading it soon enough.
Reminds me of the scene in Rollerball where Jonathan E goes to the library and the records he wants to read have been classified, transcribed, and deleted.

Plus I like the smell of the paper, one of my favorite shops is a massive secondhand bookshop, its like a Tardis and only looks fairly small from the outside but when you get in its a Labyrinth, stacked to the gunwales with every type of book you could think of.
I bet the floors are under a hell of a load, one of these days the top floor will crash through all the others and end up on the bottom floor

Electronic books are ok in one way cos they are easy to store but they are a pain to read and when I end up with electronic manuals I just print them out. which kind of defeats the object of it all.

**sandbender** · 20-07-2009, 21:23

Originally Posted by demographic

"...my favorite shops is a massive secondhand bookshop, its like a Tardis and only looks fairly small from the outside but when you get in its a Labyrinth, stacked to the gunwales with every type of book you could think of. I bet the floors are under a hell of a load, one of these days the top floor will crash through all the others and end up on the bottom floor

..."

Too many books! a very dangerous place that, according to Terry Pratchet anyway...

L-space, short for library-space, is the ultimate portrayal of Pratchett's concept that the written word has powerful magical properties on the Discworld, and that in large quantities all books warp space and time around them. The principle of L-space revolves around a seemingly logical equation; it is an extension of the aphorism 'Knowledge is Power':

More here.

**Tengu** · 21-07-2009, 08:18

I find that if you put enough books in one place, they start reproducing.

**firecrest** · 21-07-2009, 10:12

just derailing a bit here (hijacking really) can anyone recommend me a good old book about living/travelling in the woods. like a personal experience one that I can read whilst in the woods?

**sandbender** · 21-07-2009, 10:19

Originally Posted by firecrest

just derailing a bit here (hijacking really) can anyone recommend me a good old book about living/travelling in the woods. like a personal experience one that I can read whilst in the woods?

I'd recommend these...

Thoreau's Walden , Nessmuk's Woodcraft and Kephart's's Camping and Woodcraft.

**gregorach** · 21-07-2009, 10:22

The real reason to buy a Kindle.

**8thsinner** · 21-07-2009, 10:40

I didn't realise the kindle could have it's books pulled so easily. I would never buy one for this reason alone.

I have my archos 504, several years old now, and it reads PDF's without difficulty including diagrams, infact a lot of the survival books available world wide are on there, the majority of them are scanned images.

Now things like fox fire? series of 12 where first six are available all over, take ages to load up but they still work.

It's major down fall is battery power by comparison, the kindle will last much longer, I can read only 250 pages or so on a full charge of the archos. But in the case of the last 40 books I have been reading since june, that means a book a charge/day if you read like I do.

I know people frown on the torrent system cause of legality, but the fact is for the conspirsist in you it's a perfect compromise.

Demographic, I know what you mean about it defeating the purpose, but I also disagree at the same time. If you take the time to prepare your prints, bind them and pattern them, they do a well job of creating both visually appealing and fully functional. for example, printing out lord of the rings in A5 with small but olde english style fonts looks great bound in leather, or the book of five rings in a japanese calligraphy influenced font.
Another advantage to the E books are that you can store a very large amount of very usefull information in a small area.

Don't get me wrong I love books, and would happily spend thousands on them but fact is, I can travel with an entire series of books to read like say on holiday without worrying about weight issues.

I think I have shared more than enough of my opinion on this now.

**Bravo4** · 21-07-2009, 10:58

Originally Posted by firecrest

like a personal experience one that I can read whilst in the woods?

Perhaps you might like Annie Dillard's "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek" or Lucy Irvine's "Castaway". Ooops, not really oldies, or about traveling in the woods, but good books for sure.

http://books.google.com/books?id=9HC...esult&resnum=4
http://www.lucyirvine.com/faq.htm

**firecrest** · 21-07-2009, 13:43

ive read castaway. good book

**lamper** · 21-07-2009, 14:44

Said this in another thread, but I'll say it again...

To save on weight, the iTouch/Iphone app Stanza is great for hundreds of free books.

**sandbender** · 22-07-2009, 00:23

Originally Posted by lamper

Said this in another thread, but I'll say it again...

To save on weight, the iTouch/Iphone app Stanza is great for hundreds of free books.

I'd avoid owning an iPhone for much the same reasons as I wouldn't have a Kindle, it is a very nice bit of gear though.

**sandbender** · 23-07-2009, 08:21

This article in the Guardian will be of interest to those following this story.

Link here.

**Neanderthal** · 25-07-2009, 22:30

Just bought myself a Sony Reader PRS-505 from Play.com.

It can struggle with displaying complex PDFs but for reading novels it is great.

Just loading it up with books now.

If you have one of these type devices then check out Calibre, an Open Source application for managing and converting your ebooks.

Stu

**rik_uk3** · 26-07-2009, 09:44

Here is a good site for free downloads

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/ebooks/

**Mr Adoby** · 26-07-2009, 10:41

Originally Posted by MartinK9

I go for audiobooks myself; I like the ability to listen to a book around the fire or in my hammock at night.

I'm unable to use audiobooks. I almost instantly fall asleep.

A.

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