Bears in the yard

[Oblio13]

There's been so much wildlife around lately that I feel like I'm living on the Serengeti. Yesterday a moose wandered through the yard, and last my wife woke me up because she heard the chickens squawking. I went outside with the dog, a flashlight and a shotgun, and a large blackbear sow and three cubs were sniffing around the coop. They weren't alarmed at all by either me yelling or the dog barking, but finally they wandered off. About an hour later, they came back. I had some birdshot shells with me this time because I wanted to pepper the sow and teach her to be afraid of humans, and she just stood and watched me as I unloaded the buckshot and reloaded with birdshot, with the dog barking like crazy behind me. I walked around her in a semi-circle to get a better angle, and shot her in the ass. There was surprisingly little reaction. I know their fur is very thick, and they probably haven't even shed out completely yet, but I thought even the noise and blast would scare her. She just lumbered off slowly, and the cubs went up a tree. I took this pic from the front deck of our house:

[BOD]

You're doing better than most of us Brad.

last time I had to get up it was to investigate noises it was a civet cat in the ceiling/roof. Sounded like we had an intruder.

Wish I could have peppered it.

[Toddy]

And I complain when the moggie gets me up in the middle of the night to go for a walk then finds a fox and bolts up a tree

Wildlife means something different in your bit of the world

cheers,
Toddy

[C_Claycomb]

I have heard that bean-bag loads work for educating bears. More thump, but without breaking the skin. Of course, that could just be TV bunk

[HillBill]

I have heard that bean-bag loads work for educating bears. More thump, but without breaking the skin. Of course, that could just be TV bunk

Oh they hurt like the devil, they take you down big time.

Oblio, thats quality mate, how long did the cubs pitch camp in your tree for?

[dwardo]

Great picture and i can just imagine the unimpressed look on the sow when you shot her with birdshot

[BorderReiver]

And I complain when the moggie gets me up in the middle of the night to go for a walk then finds a fox and bolts up a tree

Wildlife means something different in your bit of the world

cheers,
Toddy

We get some pretty vicious hedgehogs in our garden.

Great picture Oblio. Would the bear have raided the chicken coop?

[Shewie]

Great stuff Oblio

You're so lucky to have vistors like that even if they are unwelcome.

[Oblio13]

I have heard that bean-bag loads work for educating bears. More thump, but without breaking the skin. Of course, that could just be TV bunk

I ordered some rubber buckshot in case there's a next time. Might help for educating some neighborhood dogs, too - there's one that's gotten into our chickens three times.

... how long did the cubs pitch camp in your tree for?

They stayed up there for about three hours, woke us up again with a lot of squalling and scrambling when they came down.

... Would the bear have raided the chicken coop?

Yep. They're tremendously strong, and they'll eat anything.

You're so lucky to have vistors like that even if they are unwelcome.

I think so, too.

[Bravo4]

It may sound wierd but the safest thing for a bear these days is to be afraid of humans. They have been breaking into cars for years, a chicken coop does not stand a chance. Food and refuse storage is a serious concern for the camper's safety as much as for the bears.
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/bears.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnGe9HDGBI

great picture Oblio!

[tsitenha]

Use rock salt instead of lead/steel bird shot, less chance of over penetration, less chance of excessive travel into some one else property. rock salt will biodegrade in the body and burn like blazes.

[BOD]

Sounds like you'll be advised to buy a blunderbuss next!

[C_Claycomb]

Sounds like you'll be advised to buy a blunderbuss next!

Well, it worked quite well for Farmer Giles of Hamm

[Oblio13]

Use rock salt instead of lead/steel bird shot, less chance of over penetration, less chance of excessive travel into some one else property. rock salt will biodegrade in the body and burn like blazes.

Old wive's tale. It just turns to dust, besides ruining your shotgun.

[tsitenha]

My back side has been on the receiceving end of such a load.
You lessen the velocity by reducing the the powder load and cupping the salt. It was the old husband of one of those old wives
It is better than injuring the sow with bird shot, even though you don't immediately see blood or other damage (bear's fat layer and fur tend to hide/absorb blood and such, and close up around wound chanel)

[BOD]

My back side has been on the receiceving end of such a load.

Please tell us what happened. We only know of this through Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny.

I would love to say I know of someone who received such a load

[Oblio13]

My back side has been on the receiceving end of such a load.
You lessen the velocity by reducing the the powder load and cupping the salt. It was the old husband of one of those old wives...

I, too, would like to hear the details. Everyone seems to know someone who heard about such a thing, but you are the only first-person claimant I've heard.

I experimented with rock salt loads when I was a kid, and had the same experience as this fellow:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm


The bottom line is that rock salt won't penetrate skin covered with clothing, or even paper except at near-contact ranges, and then the wad behind the salt penetrates more.

Unless you were naked, and your assailant was inches away, and you required surgery to remove a plastic wad from your tushy, it's unlikely that rock salt was what penetrated you.

[tsitenha]

I grew up in quite a different locale and time
1: reduced loads with felt wad and paper capsule, dedicated shotgun
2: salt on backside while wearing short pants (naked back thighs)
3: raiding a farmers garden with others at night (rez life is boring)
4: rock salt much larger crystals than on the video
funny that injuring a bear with bird shot just falls by the way side when Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny enter the equations
everyone should know someone like me

[British Red]

<sigh>

I had a bet with myself how long it would take for someone to pop along and bemoan the fate of the pretty fluffy bear. Sub 24 hours I guessed. I win. Salt destroys the barrel of a shotgun and does not penetrate


Oblio 13 unloaded a potentially lethal round and loaded a deterrant round suitable for the task in hand. As a hunter, shotgun shooter, re-loader and keen student of ballistics, he did exactly the right thing.

In my mind when creatures threaten your food (wild or domestic) unless they are rare or protected, you are entitled to so what is necessary (including killing them). Round here if something was attacking the live stock, (other than the protected raptors), it dies. No discussion. Oblio13 showed more restraint than would be shown round here - an off lead dog attacking livestock - let alone wild life - gets a short course of injections (Pb)

Red

[tsitenha]

British Red, I also hunt, though not bears (for personal reasons). I hunt, kill my meat as part of a lifestyle but don't deliberately wound an animal. If he was in danger or protecting his livestock then kill it... call the authorities and be done with it....just don't shoot and possibly injure it and let it go off into the night and let some one else walk into a situation with an injured sow bear, that is totally without any measure of responsibility or crediblity.
Can't say about New Hampshire but here it is against the law and common sense to knowingly shoot a sow with cubs, period, call the State Agencies, Sheriff Dept, whatever or deal with it and take responsibility....
By this time the bear is no longer "fluffy" it is more "mangy" looking as great tufts of fur are falling.

As far as the rock salt, I was too busy running away with my carrots and green onions to chat and ask how exactly he charged his salt shotshell and did he understand that discharging those shells would ruin his barrel (this was way over 50 yrs ago)...much too much fun in the escape...

[British Red]

Well, I guess I'll call "BS" there. If you shoot a creature with salt its either competely ineffective (which you claim it isn't) or it creates a wound,

If you shoot something and break the skin - its a wound. neither tiny little grains of lead or salt are likely to kill a bear. If you prefer to kill everything - that's your call. A little non lethal persuasion is no bad thing in my book, be it bean bags, rubber shot or bird shot.

Oh - and as for the chance of bird shot risking "over penetration" on a bear - really - you mean a through and through? On a bear? With tiny little pin head sized shot? Hardly going to happen

Red

[tsitenha]

Well BR,
"If you prefer to kill everything - that's your call." Never said that, I kill my meat, I don't play with it

"A little non lethal persuasion is no bad thing in my book, be it bean bags, rubber shot or bird shot." My firearm is to provide food for the table not to punish, never point or pull the trigger on something you aren't going to eat.

"Oh - and as for the chance of bird shot risking "over penetration" on a bear - really - you mean a through and through?" Never said that either but deliberate wounding (backside full of metal shot is just that) is never right, you should know that.
He never said he used a bean bag shot but did say it was bird shot (never said either what size shot it was did he, so don't limit it to "tiny little pin head sized shot" he didn't say, and you being a reloader should know better on the diversity of shot size.
As far as "I'll call "BS" there" we could exchange that banality all night and still would not agree.
I notice that we are the only 2 still posting on this subject????

[Oblio13]

I grew up in quite a different locale and time
1: reduced loads with felt wad and paper capsule, dedicated shotgun
2: salt on backside while wearing short pants (naked back thighs)
3: raiding a farmers garden with others at night (rez life is boring)
4: rock salt much larger crystals than on the video
funny that injuring a bear with bird shot just falls by the way side when Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny enter the equations
everyone should know someone like me

How did you know that the fellow who shot you was using felt wads and larger than normal salt crystals? How did you know he had a shotgun dedicated to only using salt? How did you know he was using reduced power loads? Did you discuss these things with him before or after he shot you? And why would reduced-power loads penetrate when full-power ones won't?

I'll call BS, too.


And peppering a bear's ass with 7 1/2 shot from 25 yards or so away isn't going to do it a bit of permanent harm, as you'd know if you were what you're pretending to be on the internet.

[Toddy]

A bitty off the topic, but my bother shot me once with a .22 air rifle loaded with sugar in a twist of paper For some bizarre reason he reckoned he could blast all the caterpilars that were devouring the leaves of the gooseberry bush by shooting them with a load of sugar. It blasted the leaves and the caterpilars to mush, but he decided to have a go at me too.........result on my bare legs from about two yards was the worst cast of road rash ever seen, that stung like a, a, a very stingy bad thing for about ten days.........of course after Mum got hold of him he couldn't sit down for just as long either

No idea about salt in a shotgun, but sugar in an airgun was not funny

cheers,
Toddy

[tsitenha]

Oblio13,
Felt wads was the norm in those days, he didn't go hunting anymore so all he used the shotgun was for garden raids. We all knew who was there and what we could expect.
We have only 2 types of salt and no one would use expensive table salt for that purpose so road rock salt it was and you don't need to use a full powder load for a lighter shot weight
All I said he salted our back side with the loads.

Now as far as injuring the bear with 7 1/2 bird shot, until this last post you never specified it or the distance, which by the way is immaterial, deliberately shooting/wounding a sow with cubs is against the law and immoral here as most places (nice picture by the way) I expect New Hampshire is the same.

You are wrong and are trying to cover it up with a a Hail Mary whish about no permanent damage (I sincerely hope that is the case, for the bear)

The internet hides a lot, look in a mirror before casting accusation.

The BS here is more in the vain of Bear S

Now are you going after Toddy??? one mans salt is another womans sugar.

Every one deserves a friend like me

[traderran]

. 375 H&H or A good old .45/70 works great. And they wont come back.

[Oblio13]

... kill it...

So you recommend killing a bear with three cubs...

... immoral ...

But you think stinging it's ass with birdshot is immoral...

My back side has been on the receiceving end of such a load...

And your story about being shot with rocksalt is pure BS. You know it and I know it, and after your contradictory attempts at explaining it, I doubt anyone here thinks it passes the smell test. Quit while you're behind.

... I also hunt, though not bears (for personal reasons)...

Because there are no bears in your mother's basement?

[BOD]

. 375 H&H or A good old .45/70 works great. And they wont come back.

That's right. I reckon capital punishment for nuisance kids should be the norm!

[Oblio13]

Update: They got into the garbage and compost of two neighbors, but didn't come back here. Knock on wood.

[traderran]

That's right. I reckon capital punishment for nuisance kids should be the norm!

A lot of places over hear bears are pests. If you had them
getting in your trash and gardens you would feel like we do.
And if they don't take the hent the first time. They will the next time