Wild camping in Scotland and fires.

[BigShot]

On reflection, "Wild camping and fires in Scotland" would probably have been a better title - I'm not going camping in a fire! Haha.

How do folks?

I've done a quick search for info on this so have a bit of info - but being from south of the border were you get shot on sight* if making camp on private land without permission - the Scottish way of doing things isn't entirely clear to me (except to know it's entirely more sensible).
* an ever so slight exaggeration.


I'm half planning a trip up to one of the islands on Loch Lomond - or possibly somewhere else in those fine celtic lands to the north - and wondering where I'd stand with a couple of things.


Provided I'm away from houses (I'd be in woods most likely) I take it I'm perfectly entitled to make camp. Obviously - not damaging the trees, taking all litter out with me - the usual responsible outdoors behaviour.
Am I right on that point?


Assuming I'm in a place I'm entitled to camp, am I allowed to make a camp fire?
If so, is it generally ok to take a small amount of wood from the area, or is that a definite no? I could carry firewood in, but would rather not need to if possible.

Finally, I saw a comment from Toddy suggesting a fire might be allowed if lit "responsibly" - but what counts as responsible in that respect?


It (hopefully) goes without saying that the "leave no trace" principle would be followed as far as possible.

Thanks in advance folks.

[Toddy]

Yes to all points.

There are four main exceptions ;
**the curtilege.......basically think of a garden ground, and give folks peace and privacy.
**SSSI's ........don't use any of the natural resources and don't disturb habitats.
**Plantations.........many would really, really prefer no open fires on them, but handled with care, usually okay. Beware roots can smoulder unseen and break out in flame later.
**Peat bogs and moorlands.........open fires can catch and smoulder away unseen and break out further along. These really need care and attention and generally not advisable.

That's it really...........contact SNH and ask for the free handbook, they are very helpful and would rather people asked than caused problems.

I'll find a link.

atb,
Toddy

http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/default.asp

http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/access/ap...code050604.pdf

there's also an excellent summing up on the go4walk site
http://www.go4awalk.com/ask/wildcampinginscotland.php

[riggers]

mate your not a ranger are you

[BigShot]

Riggers...
...is who a ranger? Me?

If so, no. I'm not. At least I don't think so.
What makes you ask that?

[BigShot]

Toddy - thanks for that.
After the comment I saw from you (it was on the thread where someone was woken up to the sound of police questioning his mate about the car or something) I figured you might have some input on this


So, assuming it's not curtilege, SSSI, Peat or Plantation... I can make camp, gather firewood, burn it, eat, sleep, brew up and generally pretend I'm Ray Meerz to my heart's content? Sweet.

How about standing wood whether dead or alive? Obviously I won't be in a hurry to cut down a living tree, but if I got somewhere and everything was healthy, could I cut a small amount if I wanted/needed to?
I have a suspicion that wouldn't be ok, but again, your ways are strange to me.


Thanks for the links. I'm ploughing on through the access code now and will get onto SNH before heading up too.
I'd half forgotten about the go4awalk website - that's a very handy site indeed.


Oh - and is there a list of SSSIs somewhere? I'm not clued up on that and wouldn't want to do something stupid without realising it (I prefer to do stupid things in full knowledge y'see ).

[Shewie]

If you`re camping a short distance from the car it`s a good idea to take some firewood with you if possible.

48 hours and then move on is a good rule of thumb, act responsibly and leave no trace and you`ll be okay. I`ve been approached by rangers and if you show them your good intentions they`ll usually leave you be. After a brew of course

[Toddy]

It's this *responsible* bit again
Ash grows prolifically as does birch, but if you cut it down, it's dead.
Is there a dead one standing ? Can you use bits of it instead ? Is it of a size that something might be making it's home in it ? If not, and it's not going to be a problem, I would use it.

My Granny said, "Things don't grow just for you !", it's kind of a good way to look at resources.

Generally there's enough wood around, whether dead or overcrowded to not be an issue, but some sites, like Loch Lomond's shores nearer the Glasgow end, are well and truly trashed just from sheer volume of numbers Folks will learn but it takes some longer than others.

I don't know if there's a definitive list of SSSI's, you might ask SNH, and if they point to one, could you post the details here, please ?

No, I'm not a Ranger, riggers. I'm a housewife

cheers,
Toddy

[Shambling Shaman]

If you wild camp near a Loch edge then theres normally lost of drift wood, well there lost on are Loch

[Angus Og]

Loch Lomond is a Environmentally Sensitive Area but some parts are SSSI.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publicati.../07/15133/9011

[Shewie]

I don't know if there's a definitive list of SSSI's, you might ask SNH, and if they point to one, could you post the details here, please ?

Toddy

There`s a searchable list here

[Nagual]

Can't really add too much to this as Toddy has said and given links that pretty much cover it. The only thing you should be aware of is that by cutting down trees you are committing an act of vandalism. All land is owned by someone whether or not it's private or public, in theory you could be arrested etc for it, the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 does not make any allowances for such things. Of course the realities are usually very different from theories. I've cut branches off trees many times since I was a young lad, as have many of us here. Common sense must prevail, a little wood from several different trees / bushes etc is the best way to avoid making the area looking as if it's been visited by a load of beavers.. Treat the area with respect and common sense, take only what you need, not what you want.

[Toddy]

Well said

atb,
Toddy

[Shambling Shaman]

Can't really add too much to this as Toddy has said and given links that pretty much cover it. The only thing you should be aware of is that by cutting down trees you are committing an act of vandalism. All land is owned by someone whether or not it's private or public, in theory you could be arrested etc for it, the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 does not make any allowances for such things. Of course the realities are usually very different from theories. I've cut branches off trees many times since I was a young lad, as have many of us here. Common sense must prevail, a little wood from several different trees / bushes etc is the best way to avoid making the area looking as if it's been visited by a load of beavers.. Treat the area with respect and common sense, take only what you need, not what you want.

succinct, concise and above all - to the point
nicely put.

[riggers]

ha ha ha ha good head on you then my grandad once told me leave only foot prints take only pitures and leave every thing as you found it if not better

[Doc]

Have a look at the Scottish access code at:
http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.co...ess%20Code.pdf

Fires are illegal on or near a plantation, enclosed or cultivated land or near a public road, or anywhere if your fire gives 'reasonable cause for alarm or annoyance'.

I prefer to limit fires to gravelly ground by lochs or burns, and elsewhere a firebox is a good idea.

I have never yet had to cut green wood for the fire, anywhere, though I think that in some pressurised bits of Loch Lomond there is little dead wood because of weekend campfires.

[h2o]

dont cut living trees down anywhere on this planet!!! why not just find stuff on the floor.

[Draven]

I prefer to limit fires to gravelly ground by lochs or burns, and elsewhere a firebox is a good idea.

That's a mighty fine piece of advice. At least that way, you're about 100% sure you won't leave anything smouldering underground, and if the landowner does come along and see you with a wee campfire on the riverbank, they'll likely not be bothered. Also much easier to leave no trace.

Atb
Pete

[Toddy]

dont cut living trees down anywhere on this planet!!! why not just find stuff on the floor.

Nice sentiment, but if I don't I wouldn't get out my door within a year.....the damned things seed in every crevise in my garden........I routinely pull up hundreds of seedlings a year........I also plant hundreds elsewhere too though.
Sycamore, birch, beech, willow, ash, holly, oak, elder............you're welcome to seedlings anytime, right now there are three ash, four sycamores, an oak, two holly and I've lost count of the silver birches that either get new homes, or become compost.

I help pull out birch that is trying to colonise peat bogs, I help thin out ash that is smothering small oak trees, sycamore is just too vigorous for most of the places it grows around here and willow is running rampant on three sites I know of. They all need to be removed or pruned.

I like trees, I love woodlands, but they're only part of the world around me.

The key is 'responsible' use of natural resources.

cheers,
Toddy

[Toddy]

That's a mighty fine piece of advice. At least that way, you're about 100% sure you won't leave anything smouldering underground, and if the landowner does come along and see you with a wee campfire on the riverbank, they'll likely not be bothered. Also much easier to leave no trace.

Atb
Pete

My hobo stove gets a fair amount of use for just that very thing Keeps things simple, no fuss or bother and it's very economical in fuel.........unless all I'm using is hawthorn

cheers,
Toddy

[lostagain]

Hi, just a personal experience from Loch Lomond last year. If it's Loch Lomond you're set on, as far to its North end as possible, even better an island. If it were me returning, I'd stop at Lomond to take a picture then keep going North and leave that one behind.

I arrived late one night last year whilst on my way back home from farther up North and decided to throw the tent up on the shore (about half way up the Loch). At 2am I packed up and left. I hadn't realised how close to Glasgow it was and within easy reach of the boy racers, druggies etc. I didn't fancy waking up to find my tent alight with me in it so i packed up and left.

I don't like to put down an area or put people off visiting i may have just caught a bad day at Loch Lomond!!
On a positive note, i did have a long chat with a bloke who lived 500 yards away, i explained my good intentions, we had a good natter and he left asking me to knock on his door if i couldn't get a fire going for a brew. Good bloke although he could have told me about the hoodies from Glasgow !!!

[Shewie]

Hi, just a personal experience from Loch Lomond last year. If it's Loch Lomond you're set on, as far to its North end as possible, even better an island. If it were me returning, I'd stop at Lomond to take a picture then keep going North and leave that one behind.

I arrived late one night last year whilst on my way back home from farther up North and decided to throw the tent up on the shore (about half way up the Loch). At 2am I packed up and left. I hadn't realised how close to Glasgow it was and within easy reach of the boy racers, druggies etc. I didn't fancy waking up to find my tent alight with me in it so i packed up and left.

I don't like to put down an area or put people off visiting i may have just caught a bad day at Loch Lomond!!
On a positive note, i did have a long chat with a bloke who lived 500 yards away, i explained my good intentions, we had a good natter and he left asking me to knock on his door if i couldn't get a fire going for a brew. Good bloke although he could have told me about the hoodies from Glasgow !!!

You could always have a look at Inchconnachan Just be ready for the unexpected

[BigShot]

Some brilliant posts in here - thanks folks!

The trip to Loch Lomond would actully include canoeing and I'd fully intend to make camp on an island rather than the shore. That would probably limit the amount (firewood wise) I could carry in.


Nagual - thanks for the tip about vandalism. I do understand the difference between law and real life, especially when "responsiblity" is a key word in your approach to things, but it's always good to know where you stand legally just in case.
As things stand I'll be looking for driftwood, standing deadwood and probbly carrying in a few logs to get things going too. I wouldn't want to cut green wood unless I had no alternatives.


Doc and Draven - if there's a suitable campsite close to the water's edge I'll be stopping there, I expect that'd meet the gravelly ground thing. I'd quite like to have a view out over the lake from camp, and having the fire right by the lock would be pretty handy for avoiding ground/root damage too.


Lostagin and Shewie - As above, I do plan on heading to an island, whether that'll be Inchconnachan or one of the uninhabited ones I don't know. The main reason for Inchconnachan would be exactly for the unexpected though. It's a shame I know what's there already as that would be a truly wonderful surprise to have.
Thanks for the heads up on what the southern end of the loch can be like. I'll definitely think about avoiding that.
The further I can get from people the better for camping. Half the point of going out is to get away from it all - I don't need neds in their cars and drinking stella around greenwood fires lit with petrol.


Shewie and Angus - thanks for those links. I'll have a proper read of Angus' link later, that searchable list should come in very handy too Shewie.


Thanks again folks!
All very much appreciated.

[h2o]

Nice sentiment, but if I don't I wouldn't get out my door within a year.....the damned things seed in every crevise in my garden........I routinely pull up hundreds of seedlings a year........I also plant hundreds elsewhere too though.
Sycamore, birch, beech, willow, ash, holly, oak, elder............you're welcome to seedlings anytime, right now there are three ash, four sycamores, an oak, two holly and I've lost count of the silver birches that either get new homes, or become compost.

I help pull out birch that is trying to colonise peat bogs, I help thin out ash that is smothering small oak trees, sycamore is just too vigorous for most of the places it grows around here and willow is running rampant on three sites I know of. They all need to be removed or pruned.

I like trees, I love woodlands, but they're only part of the world around me.

The key is 'responsible' use of natural resources.

cheers,
Toddy

trees in your garden are yours, i should have said trees that dont belong to you.The original question wasnt on his front garden but on woodland around loch lomond.I cut low limbs off trees myself as i work for the council but i wouldnt in a wood.And the occasional bit of basil growth.

[wistuart]

I would also recommend trying somewhere other than Loch Lomond as it's by far the busiest loch in Scotland. If you're looking for a large freshwater loch with plenty of islands to explore I would suggest Loch Awe. It's not that much further away from you than Lomond but is a lot quieter and cleaner. Loch Tay is also very nice but a bit further for you to travel.

[BigShot]

Wistuart - noted.
I'd planned on Loch Lomond as I've heard many complimentary words about it. "Stunning", "Beautiful" and so on. I'm aware that most of Scotland can be described that way though.

I'll have a look into Loch Awe and Loch Tay too. I'm sure I'll get around all of them in the end though.

How does Loch Lomond tend to be around this time of year? I expect it will be heaving in the summer months, but I expect most of the crowds would be shut up at home in the dead of winter.
I get the feeling it could be a good idea to Lomond when it's likely to be quieter and then retreat to the quieter areas when the weather is more suited to the crowds.


Welcome to the forum too.
I mean, you've been a member for a while, but just 1 post. So yea. Welcome (ish).

[wistuart]

Thanks for the welcome. At this time of year Loch Lomond will be extremely quiet and with a touch of snow on the hills it's probably the best time to experience it. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole in the summer personally.

One word of caution, which you hopefully are already aware of. The wind can get up to quite a speed on many of our lochs as the surrounding hills often provide a funnel effect for it. If you're canoeing, make sure you check the weather forecasts regularly and plan accordingly, especially if you're likely to be camping out on islands. I do a fair bit of kayak touring and I've seen lochs turn from flat calm to equivelent of force 5/6 sea state in a matter of hours.

[Grooveski]

Hi Wistuart. Welcome to BcUK.

Agree with everything you've said, especially the weather warning.
Bigshot - you might be interested in reading this. A SotP meet from a few years back which seen just the sort of flat-calm to wild change that's being spoken of.

One trick I've found on Loch Lomond is using existing fire rings(there's one in just about every bay ) then breaking them up afterwards. It tidys up other folks shambles which is never a bad thing.

[lostagain]

You could always have a look at Inchconnachan Just be ready for the unexpected

Rich,

Wallabies? Really !!?
Now I might just have to go back - where'd that neighbour go with that canoe he said I could borrow!!

Now, off to work on some brownie points to justify a couple of days trip to Scotland !

[BigShot]

wistuart - thanks for the tip about the weather. Having spent a bit of time on water (not nearly enough) I've seen water change quickly, but not that drastically and hadn't thought much about it for the Lochs. I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

I'm not comitting to any particular days to paddle out, but even when I do pick days the weather will have the final say - I'm not daft enough to plough on despite questionable conditions.

Lomond does sound lovely with the touch of snow about - I'm all in favour of it being quiet too. I probably will head to some others during the nicer weather. I'm half planning to paddle the Great Glen with my brother this summer. Might take it nice and slowly over a couple of weeks. Other than that though - can you suggest any spots which are good to head to for bushie stuff and paddling that are away from the worst of the crowds?


Grooveski - thanks for the link. I'll read that on my lunch break tomorrow.
Nice tip about the fire rings. I hadn't considered building a fire on top of the remains of someone else's so can clear up both at once. A pretty good idea I think - though I'll be raking it over to start with just to make sure it's not got sharps like broken glass or used needles in it (I don't expect the average junkie would bother with a fire there, but I'd sooner be on the safe side),