I was nearly there...

[TheViking]

:cry: I was nearly there! :shock: :roll: I tried fire by friction today indoors because it was raining outside. Smoke came but then the string broke and I have had 2 pauses now. :roll:

Give me some advice please you who have tried it. I've been going on for about an hour now and am pretty exhausted. I used charcloth to catch the ember. Shall i use another tinder? What? :roll:

[TheViking]

I'll try with some other tinder tomorrow. I think charcloth needs a fairly high temperature to ignite. But I had smoke for around 1 minute, but the string broke. :roll:

The ambition is to do it before I turn 16. :biggthump

[tomtom]

your really looking for the ember rather then getting the charcloth to ignite straight from the bow drill

[Ed]

Yep.... you should get a fine black powder collecting in the notch of your hearth... this forms the coal when it is hot enough.
Make sure there is good friction between your spindle and hearth... if it is smooth then rough it up a bit. You don't need to drill very fast as long as you are bearing down and are using long strokes on the bow.
You should get light whispy smoke at first.... then thicker heavier smoke.... when this happens you can either speed up the bowing or push down more on the block... or both... you will need to drill quite hard in this final phase but after about 20-50 stokes you should be smoking like mad..... now stop and see if smoke is still rising from the hearth.... if it is, you have a coal ....just fan it gently to life and transfer it to your tinder:-)
On tip is to warm your set up first..... before trying to make the coal, just give the set 20-30 hard strokes to get everything warmed up....

Hope this is of some help :biggthump

Ed

[Tony]

To add to tomtom and Ed’s points. The Ember and the tinder bundle are separate things. You need to establish your ember and then after it’s all nice and glowing put that ember in the tinder bundle, then you need to introduce lots of oxygen to it which is usually by blowing and waving it about (waving it about helps to keep down the moisture in it)

For your ember place something under your hearth or board to allow the ember to pile up, as this gets hotter it will coagulate into a lump. This needs to be on something stiff so that you do not break the structure of the ember when you move it. Remember, there is no rush, you can take a rest in between creating your ember and putting it in the tinder bundle.

A few of pics for you.
This one shows you the hearth or board, the ember that has been collected on the thin bit of wood under the board (directly under the notch) the bow and the spindle. There is no hurry to get the ember into the tinder bundle. Sometimes it is best though to lift the ember, on whatever it has collected, above the ground as it can get damp.



The ember is now in the tinder bundle (which should be as dry as possible) and it is being blown to life. Remember that you transfer moisture to the tinder bundle from your breath so wave it in the air quite frequently to help keep it dry.



This one shows body position, the arm locked against the leg for stability; excellent downward pressure can be attained this way, although not too hard! The foot is holding everything in place. The whole thing at this stage is getting the stability, correct pressure and your technique to come together so you can produce the ember, once you can do it you can start experimenting with other woods etc.


Friction firelighting is one of the skills that are much easier to be shown how to master than try to pick up by yourself, but, with perseverance you will be able to do it. Just keep at it!

[TheViking]

Many thanks guys! :biggthump ack:

I will keep at it and not give up.

[TheViking]

OK. I tried it right before i posted this. All i get is some dark brown wood dust. Is that the ember? :roll: I get quite a lot and it's really smoking a lot... :?:

[tomtom]

the dust you are looking for will be jet black like coal.. and you have an ember when it glows like an.. um.. ember..does it still smoke when you have stoped drilling? if it does give it a gentle blow (being carful not to blow the dust around the place) and if you see that orange glow then you have an ember.

[DUCky]

If you are just getting dust but no ember, probably you are not getting the temperature up high enough. Nice long strokes and final 20/30 strokes at full speed to get the temp up. If the going is too heavy check the top end of your spindle. Any extra friction there will make your life much harder. Reshape the top and give it another go. I don't know what your spindle looks like, but if you can't get it to work, you may try reducing the width of your spindle.

Keep at it and you will get it, but it is definately hard work the first few times.

Lennart

[ScottC]

Also I don't know if using a cup as the bit is the best idea, might not reduce friction enough?

[TheViking]

Also I don't know if using a cup as the bit is the best idea, might not reduce friction enough?

No, the cup is fine. There's a good grip and it's not very big. :wink:
But I will take a break now and come back to the drill in a day or so. But change the hearth board to another wood. Perhaps to pine or sycamore.

[brian6244]

You do have a notch cut in the hearth board right? That is extremely important with almost all woods.

BTW: A 1oz shot glass is a nice replacement for a palm rock while youre learning. Just be careful not to break it and cut yourself.

[TheViking]

You do have a notch cut in the hearth board right? That is extremely important with almost all woods.

BTW: A 1oz shot glass is a nice replacement for a palm rock while youre learning. Just be careful not to break it and cut yourself.

Yes! I have a notch. :roll:

[Gary]

Was that list any use little viking?

[TheViking]

Yes, Gary it's a good list. I think my problem is the hearth board. I will make one in sycamore or pine. And I need to produce even more smoke than already and more heat by pressing down more. :shock: :wink:

[Gary]

whats your spindle made of?

[TheViking]

whats your spindle made of?

Hazel. The heart board is of a wood I don't know the name of. The bow is also hazel.

[Gary]

ok Hazel is ok - have you tried the same wood for both the hearth and spindle - you will find this helps a lot.

If not try a harder wood spindle into a softer wood hearth - such as my favourite beech into alder.

[Stew]

The bow:

How springy should it be?

How tight should the string be?

Obviously the string needs to be tight enough to grip the spindle but is it just tight enough to twist the spindle in or should it be bending the bow once the spindle is in?

[Gary]

Bow shouldnt be springy and the string tight enough that when you put the spindle in it wants to soin out on its own.

Unfortunately bow drill is one of those visual things and you'd be hard pressed to get it working from a book or via this meduim

[Stew]

Bow shouldnt be springy and the string tight enough that when you put the spindle in it wants to soin out on its own.

Ta.

Unfortunately bow drill is one of those visual things and you'd be hard pressed to get it working from a book or via this meduim

That just makes it more of a challenge...or one of many reasons to make it to a meet up!
:-)

[TheViking]

Unfortunately bow drill is one of those visual things and you'd be hard pressed to get it working from a book or via this meduim

But it would be a great feeling to do it at 15 with no visual instructions. :shock: :biggthump ack: I'm definately gonna keep trying and use another hearth. If i'm right, Sycamore is almost the same as maple right? What's best to use? Sycamore or Pine? :?: :wink:

[Gary]

KEEP trying - if you made smoke your nearly there - trick is to kep going and watch the smoke you want it to start spinning up the spindle - once that happens give it about 20 good strokes and the smoke will grow more and more.

Best wood is Ivy or Alder - sycamor is what I learnt with and needs a lot more pressure then speed - ivy is the opposite and needs speed over pressure.

[jakunen]

KEEP trying - if you made smoke your nearly there - trick is to kep going and watch the smoke you want it to start spinning up the spindle - once that happens give it about 20 good strokes and the smoke will grow more and more.

Absolutely!!!

I'm at a similar point. If I can just keep going that little bit longer without trying to fire the spindle at Gary):, with luck, and a bit more practice, I too will be able to show off a fire made from this method.

But I'm not gonna throw away my trusty flint and steel and char cloth...:wink:

[Moonraker]

When you want to look at various combinations of spindle and hearth wood there is a great article which compares nearly 2000 different combinations :shock: Not all the tree and shrub woods are available in the UK but it covers a lot of them. It is here:

A Friction Fire Inquiry By Storm

There is a large table which makes reading the results easy and grades the ease/ difficulty of making an ember from 1-5. It includes same wood combinations i.e. (Willow on Willow).

I think everyone has different feelings on this but it is a very well produced report.

Simon

[TheViking]

Mmm... nice table there, although the type is a little too small. :wink:

[Stew]

Mmm... nice table there, although the type is a little too small. :wink:

Just copy it into Excel and increase the font.

[Moonraker]

Mmm... nice table there, although the type is a little too small. :wink:

Then up the font size in your browser prefs :wink: I can read it fine here point size 14 on 1600 x 1200 screen :-P

The also lists the species into Great, Good, Difficult, Extremely Difficult at the end (Table 2). I was interested to see he had English Ivy (Hedera helix) in the V. Difficult section after reading what Gary said. Just goes to show how these things are personal and how many variables there must be.

These are his 'Great' selection:

I have added info on availability in Britain

[NATIV]=Native to Britain and can be found growing wild

[NATUR]=Naturalised in Britain from abroad (introduced by accident or deliberately planted) and can be found growing wild

[ORNAM]= Ornamental garden introductions. Only likely to be found in gardens, parks ( especially in arboretums) or possibly as garden escapes. A few, especially the annuals, biennials may never have been introduced as garden plants.

The * notes are mine. I have not double checked this info!

Great

Achillea millefolium - Yarrow [NATIV]

Conyza canadensis - Horseweed [NATUR]

Acer negundo - Box Elder [ORNAM]

Aesculus californica - CA Buckeye [ORNAM]

Baccharis salicifolia - Mule Fat [ORNAM]

Sambucus mexicana - Blue Elderberry [ORNAM]

Sequoia sempervirens - Coast Redwood [ORNAM]

Typha latifolia - Cattail [NATIV]

Acer macrophyllum - Big-leaf Maple [ORNAM]

Artemisia douglasiana - Mugwort [NATIV]*1

Cirsium vulgare - Bull Thistle [NATIV] *2

Cytisus scoparius - Scotch Broom [NATIV]*3

Pseudotsuga menziesii - Douglas Fir [NATUR]*4

Scrophularia californica - CA Figwort

Sonchus oleraceus - Sow Thistle

*1 correctly in Britain Artemisia vulgaris
*2 Common Thistle in Britain
*3 also called Broom, Common Broom
*4 Forestry species. occasionally self seeds in Britain

You can find out more info on any of these plants at the great US Dept. of Agriculture, Natural Resources Conservation Service Plants Database

Simon