Hunting with Catapults

[Sniper]

I was just reading an article written in america talking about hunting with a catapult or as they refer to it a slingshot. Can anyone tell me the law in the UK regarding hunting with one. I've looked up all the sites I could think of but nothing on catapults. Plenty on airguns though.
Thinking it would be a useful tool to pack in the woods cos I don't like snare when not an emergency ...just looking for fresh dinner whilst out.
I had thought of maybe a black widow and using ball bearings as ammo.
If legal does anyone else use one for hunting?

[Bernie Garland]

I was just reading an article written in america talking about hunting with a catapult or as they refer to it a slingshot. Can anyone tell me the law in the UK regarding hunting with one. I've looked up all the sites I could think of but nothing on catapults. Plenty on airguns though.
Thinking it would be a useful tool to pack in the woods cos I don't like snare when not an emergency ...just looking for fresh dinner whilst out.
I had thought of maybe a black widow and using ball bearings as ammo.
If legal does anyone else use one for hunting?

Dont know what the law is,but used to use a black widow and marbles to great effect on roosting pheasants on a windy night when they were down low,in my younger days

Bernie

[Toddy]

Illegal, iirc, unless for taking out grey squirrels to feed birds of prey iirc.
Otherwise, like the blowpipe, it's an offensive weapon.

Maybe that's just England and Wales though Strikes me the Procurator Fiscal or the Sheriff Court would demand proof that you actually had a B of Prey

cheers,
Toddy

[Sniper]

That's a pity would have been ideal for fresh tucker, ah well it was just a thought cheers for that Toddy.

[Toddy]

It's a lot harder to be as accurate with as an airgun, but with practice amazing accuracy is possible.......the rubber tubing is a constant adjustment though, the temperature alters the 'pull'. I found it was better with the 5mm square rubber that's used to power the enormous band powered model aircraft. Sweeties make good practice ammo Cinnamon or aniseed balls splatter and drive dogs nuts A while ago someone on the forum said he found mint imperials good since they powdered on impact and you can see where you've hit.

cheers,
Toddy

[Sniper]

I suppose if you hit the target, a nice little bunny...... from the right angle.......... and with the right amount of force with an aniseed ball........ it would adding celeriac to the stuffing Lol

[spamel]

Now, I don't want to send this thread down to Argument Land like so many have in recent days () but Peter Galetta (Birchtree pProductions Bushcraft blokey, sorry if I've spelt your name wrong) uses a catty to take down a pigeon in one of his DVDs. Now, I'm not sure if he'd be stupid enough to incriminate himself by recording it and then releasing it on DVD for sale to the public! I'd be very interested to know if it really is indeed illegal in England.

[Toddy]

You know how you need a Game Licence to take rabbits and the like ? Does any of the paperwork state exactly what can and cannot be taken and by what method ? I think last time I just paid a few quid at the P.O. counter but that wasn't yesterday.....

I have no issues with good hunting; alive one minute and dinner the next, even if it's not something I will eat, is fine.

However, the forum cannot be seen to condone or encourage an illegal act.
Can I ask that any information posted, that states categorically that a particular hunting method is legal and appropriate, is referenced. Remember that the laws are different in Scotland.

I'm hoping that one of the Mods who are particularly interested in Fair Game comes and reads the thread. Tbh meat is just something dead I prep to feed to other folks as far as I'm concerned.

cheers,
Toddy

[FGYT]

un fortunatly laws normally state what is Illegal so it can be difficult to find what is legal
Took me ages looking for speargun on SCUBA as illegal (As quoted by many many people ) its not so i never found it

So you need quote where its illegal not the other way round

in England you dont need a game licence for rabbits its covered by the general licence for vermin issued by DEFRA to the country as a whole ( i thnk even Game licences have been removed now in England as well)

ATB

Duncan

[spamel]

We don't need a Game Licence Mary, I think Scottish and English Law is differing again to confuse us all! Not sure if it is relevant to Scotland, but the DEFRA list on pest animals pretty much tells me what I can and can't shoot, although a game keeper type I was talking to today was under the impression that if it is on the land you have permission to shoot on and the owner of the land wants that animal off, then as long as it isn't protected then you can shoot it. This goes for pheasants, partridge, hare, rabbit, etc. I don't know if that is correct though, so I'll stick to what I currently do!

With regards to Game Licences, I think they have been abolished. It seems they cost more in paperwork than the cost of the licence itself.

Of course, I agree that if it isn't legal then it shouldn't be condoned by BcUK. I'm just after clarity.

Edit: FGYT, lightning fingers!

[British Red]

You know how you need a Game Licence to take rabbits and the like ? Does any of the paperwork state exactly what can and cannot be taken and by what method ? I think last time I just paid a few quid at the P.O. counter but that wasn't yesterday.....cheers,
Toddy

Actually, no license to take game is required in England and Wales

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-cou...e-licences.htm

Regards - Red

Far too slow

Its worth remembering that there is though the "general licence" which grants exemption from the blanket injuction against shooting wild birds (Wildife and Countryside Act 1981)for certain "pest" species for a given set of reasons. I've covered that before in other threads

[Toddy]

I've just checked, it was fifteen years ago I last had one

So, no game licences South of the Border, but what is a considered a legal method among the smaller (sorry, it's late, I mean not rifles or shot or air guns ) projectile methods ?

Catapault ?
Blowpipe ?
Spear ?
Atlatl ?
Dart ?
Sling ?
Boomerang ?
Bolas ?
Longbow ?
Crossbow ?

Tbh, I'd like this neat and tidy, on one thread. With clarity of detail.


cheers,
Toddy

[spamel]

Well, bow hunting of any sort is way out in England definitely, can't say for sure for Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland. Blow pipe is the same, and I would imagine Atlatls and darts would also come under the same exclusion. Dutch arrows used to be used to great effect, they are now a sporting event if I remember correctly.

It really is a big subject, if you think about all the different types of weapons that could be used, and then differrences in Law throughout UK. Some sort of table and a graph are probably required!

[Toddy]

But think of all the arguments it would solve

cheers,
Toddy

[spamel]

I like to think of it as friendly banter, with the odd rib tickling now and then!

[Toddy]

that'll be with tackety boots on then

I knew I'd read somewhere about the birds of prey excuse.....
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/sho...8&postcount=17

[Toddy]

Game licences are still required in Scotland

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/basc_...nd_launches_ga

and a short interesting overview
http://www.woodlands.co.uk/buying-a-...ing-rights.php

cheers,
Toddy

[clcuckow]

Blowpipes are just plain illegal full stop in the UK under Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offensive weapons).

But since they done define what is or is not a blowpipe (e.g. minimum length) a 'pea shooter' in illegal and in theory could get you a custodial sentence.

[Sniper]

According to your BASC link Toddy game licences in Scotland were being phased out following the 2007 shooting season therefore I assume it is now gone.

I have however just emailed BASC to see if they can clarify the position, I'll post a reply when it comes in.

Thanks it was helpful.

[-Switch-]

Apparantly it is not illegal to hunt with a Black Widow style catapult in England provided you are on private land with permission to hunt and it isn't your first means of vermin control.

Basically, if your snares aren't working and your powder has gone damp then fire away. But you can't just walk across the Downs with a Diablo taking shots at bunnies for the pot.




This is the information given to me by AQA - I don't know where they get their info from.

[bushwacker bob]

Well, bow hunting of any sort is way out in England definitely,

IIRC Its still legal to shoot a Welshman in the grounds of Ludlow castle with a longbow.

[Toddy]

According to your BASC link Toddy game licences in Scotland were being phased out following the 2007 shooting season therefore I assume it is now gone.

I have however just emailed BASC to see if they can clarify the position, I'll post a reply when it comes in.

Thanks it was helpful.

Read on.......
"Although game licences have been abolished in England and Wales, the Scottish Executive’s plans to scrap game licences will not happen before this coming game shooting season which is why all who shoot game in Scotland will still require a game licence.

Dr Colin Shedden, BASC’s Scottish director, said: “We are still working to get rid of the game licence in Scotland. We sought assurances from the Crown Office that no prosecutions would be taken forward given the cross-border situation, but this guarantee was not forthcoming. What we have now is a mechanism to allow all who shoot in Scotland to comply with the law”.


until they post that the requirement has actually been removed by the Scottish Executive then one must assume otherwise. The Scottish Executive moves at it's own determined pace, a few loudly hopeful enthusiasts ain't gonna shift them,
And one would reasonably expect to see it shouted about on the net, yet I can find nothing, can you?
Certainly, as of December 2007 the licence was still required for Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The link has a phone number for BASC, if anyone is in urgent need of information.

cheers,
Toddy

[Tadpole]

IIRC Its still legal to shoot a Welshman in the grounds of Ludlow castle with a longbow.

that would be Welshmen in the outer city and castle of Chester after dark, and only in 1403

" Henry IV took severe precautions to ensure that there would be no repetition. On 4th September 1403, he wrote to the Mayor, Sheriffs and Aldermen of the City of Chester, commanding that "all manner of Welsh persons or Welsh sympathies should be expelled from the City; that no Welshman should enter the City before sunrise or tarry in it after sunset, under pain of decapitation".

Not shoot, not Ludlow, no longer legal.

[Toddy]

Confirmed with BASC, a Game Licence is still required to hunt in Scotland and that includes folks from South of the border coming North to so so.
Available from Main post offices or by mail from the post office at Dunkeld.

cheers,
Toddy

[Sniper]

Should have asked about using a catapult while you were at it Toddy!

No point in getting a licence if I can't hunt..... and gave up all my shotguns and rifles many years ago.

[Sniper]

Just off the phone with BASC in Scotland and the official position is....

It is NOT illegal to hunt and shoot rabbits with a catapult providing you have permission from the landowner to do so.

However the Wild Mammals Protection Act 1996 is worth a look at....... as this act refers to the willful injury, maiming etc of wild mammals by stoning, burning, beating with sticks.

It's all down to.... if your intention is to kill. Therefore you would need to be proficient and accurate with a catapult, and be using ammunition which would result in a kill and not be deemed as only capable of injury. So that would count out using aniseed balls........... Any passerby seeing someone firing several shots at a wild mammal and hitting but neither killing nor stunning could be of the opinion that your intention was not to kill.

Basc advice is ........as you would expect......to carry an air rifle for the purpose of hunting rabbits for the pot!

In summary you can shoot rabbits with a catapult providing you
A. Have permission from the landowner to do so.
B. Are proficient and accurate enough to reasonably expect to kill.
C. Your intention is to kill and not injure or maime or otherwise cause suffering.
D. Are using ammunition which would be sufficient to kill.

There we are all sorted now we know where we stand, ....also bow, crossbow, spear, dart, are all illegal and are deemed offensive weapons.

[Toddy]

The idea of aniseed balls was for practice ammo not a live scenario, and I did ask the BASC this morning and the response was that they have no list of legal or illegal weapons or appropriate target species.

I know Joe Connolly, the co-ordinator at Pitt Street for the Wildlife Crimes Police Officers, I know that he did have a list of illegal traps, I wonder if he has more information, in one readable document, that we could access on the legality of various hunting methods.

cheers,
Toddy

[pothunter]

Wabbits is vermin so you wont be needin a game license me dear.

Game licenses are for tweed clad wonabe victorian gentlemen.

Pothunter.

[Toddy]

Not up here they're not.........even the poachers have them. I've just asked two of my locals to clarify the licence thing for me........the only tweed that pair wear is bunnnets

cheers,
Toddy

[British Red]

For those who are interested in such things, there is a downloadable version of the WCA 1981 at the JNCC website (its big though)

http://www.jncc.gov.uk/page-3614

To be clear the laws on Birds and Animals are different. There are provisions for

Specifically banned weapons for hunting purposes (notably bows and crossbows)
Specifically banned techniques & traps for hunting purposes (e.g. self locking snares)
Specifically protected animals (e.g. Red squirrels )
Animals where certain techniques may not be used (you may not use a lamp to hunt badgers)

For hunting animals You need to refer to Section 9 of Part 1 of the Act and Schedules 5 & 6 for listed animals.

Additionally

(1)There is the Offensive Weapons Act to take into account that ban the ownership of certain weapons (notably blow guns as noted above) - the WCA only bans use in hunting

(2) Specific laws relate to the use of firearms and target species (notably the use of calibres on deer, Section 1 firearms on birds etc.)

(3) Above all else all laws relating to animal cruelty still apply (including as suggested above the WMPA)


Hope that helps a little - it means that such things as catapults aren't banned as "offensive weapons" in that they are legal to own although of course they could be used as such an result in prosecution - the same as any other item could be. Equally they aren't forbidden under the WCA as a specifically banned hunting tool.

Red