Originally Posted by Tadpole
I totally agree. He carried a lock knife with no reason.
Banned
Settler
I totally agree. He carried a lock knife with no reason.
Settler
Settler
No, the "carrying a blade into a court building" covers that nicely.
I'd ask the same question though... does the fact he's in his 60s absolve him of responsibility for his actions?
Native
Native
The report says he handed it in. If he was searched and it was found, then fair enough. If it happened as per the report, then the security guard definately needs to get a life, as does the copper that locked him up.
Banned
Native
No but he's set in his ways,and common sense surely should prevail.No, the "carrying a blade into a court building" covers that nicely.
I'd ask the same question though... does the fact he's in his 60s absolve him of responsibility for his actions?
Bernie
Forager
Forager
will are children never wittle
Hello everyone,
will are children never wittle? with fingers?
when i was a child i had a knife from 7 years old and every day afterwards. never have i stabbed/slashed, threatened or started a fight(unthinkable).
Ok prevention is death- antly better than the cure! Hence the ban on fixed blades & locks without cause. Fine but have these people ever tryed to live and eat in this world with a s.k. (slip knot)
apart from it folding on your fingers when working with a s.k.(slashed knuckles). Theres the hygenic problems of a slip knot.
Wet greasy foods in the gaps carry germs, I hate running to the loo for any end in this case!
I have no teeth and need a knife much more than when i had teeth.
Eatting with a sak is messy and working with one is scary I.M.H.O.
why he was going into the court and was he searched I do wonder.Even if he did have work after, which seems like a need to carry it.
yet "I'd ask the same question though... does the fact he's in his 60s absolve him of responsibility for his actions?"
i think the laws the laws, maybe medical grounds would absolve him?
Its a strange world, i once got took to the station for having a palour palm!
Last edited by VIRULENT SALAMANDER; 25-07-2008 at 00:22. Reason: type err
(•???•?) “The wise train the mind, like a mother trains a child.” ? ~ anomminus
Member
Active Member
sorry but this is my first post on here apart from my introduction so please no shooting me down in flames over this.
surely you could argue that having a knife with a locking option built into it is merely there for health and safety reasons.
i am sure that most people with a knife that folds without locking have at one stage been using their knife for what ever and have either misused it intentionally or otherwise and the thing has tried to fold up upon their fingers.
Full Member
Native
You're right. And locking folders and fixed blades are things that you're allowed to have - providing you've got a good reason. Going to court sin't really a good reason. But he may have just forgotten it was in his pocket and, when he realised, handed it in to be sensible. I think he should have been commended for being sensible and not arrested. Like others have said he wasn't a victim of knife law but a victim of jobsworths.
See what I'm up to in bushcraft ... http://bushcraftlife.info
Member
Member
I am sure we will be seeing similar stories to this one in the press over time, as a professional gardener myself I’m going to be a lot more aware about carrying my pocket knife with me most of the time that’s for sure.
All I can say about the story is that there has been a lack of commonsense missing in all parties concerned.
Native
Native
Seems as though there are a whole gaggle of idiots involved in this story.
Firstly, the man for carrying a KNIFE (locking or otherwise) into a COURT. Whether he was a builder or not, needing it for legitimate use later on, he should have left it in his car, or at his place of work or at home. What a cock.
Secondly, the security guard. Should keep in mind that security guards do not have the power of descretion, that lies with the police. Same with traffic wardens. So, if a rule/law is broken they are obliged to report it. So he can probably be absolved some of the blame. Still, keep in mind the man submitted the knife, the security man could have told him to take it away or something.
Thirdly, the police officer. Who DOES have the power of descretion and could have just conviscated it and told the man not to be such a dick head in the future.
Fourthly, the media. For jumping with frenzy on such a pathetic and titilating case all because it fulfils some kind of moral zeit geist.
Fifthly, ourselves. For panicking each other and getting so indignant about an extreme case that is so blatantly cut and dried there is no real issue.
Still, we would be wise to start chaging habits (if you do still carry a knife, however small, in public out of habit. Not sure how the habit started, mind you. Can't think of a single sitaution in my everyday life where I've thought, 'oh damn, if only I had a knife with me...'), and also ensure that if you do have a knife with you that you have it for a good reason, and can prove so, and it's no bigger than it really needs to be.
It's that simple.
Tenderfoot
Tenderfoot
Seems like this knife law is hitting everybody but the punks it was intended to hit. Can you blame Mr. Read for not realising he was carrying an illegal knife? Maybe. But surely in this case he should have been let off with a warning. Please collect your knife when exiting the building, I'll keep it safe in my drawer for now. Have a good one Mr. Read.
Surely if Mr. Read was up to no good he would not be carrying a knife into the building, instead he would have chosen a perfectly legal pair of scissors or a big screwdriver.
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Native
Doesn't seem like a particularly unreasonable outcome to me...Mr Read has now been released with a caution
Dunc
Never assume that somebody else has got the map.
Full Member
Native
This has made me re think my EDC, which is a Gerber multi tool that I've had for about 14 years. It is carried in a belt pouch, alongside a minimal FAK and mobile phone. All very discreet under my suit jacket, out of sight.
It gets used for all sorts of tasks, but sadly both blades lock ...
If I had to defend carrying it legally, would I have a chance...
... I think not in light of this story
Simon
Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri
(Ever noticed how wherever you stand, the smoke goes right into your face?)
Nomad
Nomad
No Excuses, He took it into a court room building.
I carry a knife (at least 1) every day.
My always on me knife is only a very small SAK, razor sharp, but small and non locking, I also usually carry a tool logic slp2 that contains a whistle, fire steel and locking blade, when out walking the dog, in the woods, garden, office etc, etc.
Someone said they had never been in a situation where they have said “Oh I wish I had a knife”, I find that difficult to believe.
Along with the everyday uses of opening boxes, cutting tape, bailing twine, packaging bands etc the fact I have had a knife on me has even saved lives, and I am not talking mountain rescue here, just every day happenings that occur sometimes too often.
I have rescued birds tangled in fishing line, cut a lamb free from fishing net, on one occasion saved a human life too, when a boy was tangled in rope under water. Let alone the odd times a knife has come in handy or saved the day, rope wrapped round a prop shaft on a jet ski, taking plant cuttings the list goes on.
I feel very strongly about the “Knife Ban Panic Culture” going on at the moment, knives are not the problem, as said before you can do just as much damage with other tools, screwdriver, hammer, even a pencil, chopstick or steel rule, even a credit card slashed across the face will cut you. The problem is the scum that carry a weapon with intent to harm or defend. It is this we need to stop and banning the likes of us from carrying a tool of the trade with reasonable cause is not going to do jack to solve the problem.
As this shows there are “enforcement officers” out there that will stick to the letter of the law and not take into account what we feel is a justifiable reason and lead to us being slapped with a criminal record, so we must ultimately make the judgement ourselves if we are prepared to accept the actions of these over keen enforcers or not and carry or not carry what we feel we need.
If I knew I was going to a court building I would not take a locking knife with me. But I would still venture my small SAK on my keys.
Native
Native
Do you really need to carry them Simon or are you just used to carrying them?
Full Member
Native
FAK used almost daily up to last week - rubber gloves and wipes for self harmers. Now its summer hols (6 weeks), and my return to work in September will be in a mainstream school so probably not.
Gerber used once a week for odd jobs around the lab and prep room, but again new job, not teaching science, so probably not needed.
Mobile phone goes wherever I go.
So, I think the answer is, I used to need them, but probably don't in my new job.
Simon
Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri
(Ever noticed how wherever you stand, the smoke goes right into your face?)
Settler
Settler
Cant help thinking that someone is missing the point here, its easy to demonise an object that may be potentially dangerous it is much more difficult to prevent people using these objects to commit criminal acts. Surely society would be better served if efforts were focused on the perpetrators of crime.
The reality is most offenses are committed in the home using domestic kitchen knives between family members, but they are not news worthy.
Where does this leave the police many of whom carry multi-tools the majority of which will have locking blades. Their argument might be that they may be called to the scene of an accident where someone might be trapped by a seatbelt, although it is far more common for a member of the public to be first on the scene and would the potential victim be better served by the first person on the scene having a tool suitable to free them.
Tenderfoot
Tenderfoot
That's what everybody knows is true. But you can't ban "suspicious looking hooded characters between 12 and 18 years old walking about as if having a serious pelvis malfunction". You can however just ban knives and hope that solves the problem of youngsters killing each other. Excuse the politics.
Native
Native
I've never seen a dopey tit. Will it come to my bird table? Do I need to put out Horliks to tempt it? lol I had to go to Stormount (The Northern Ireland Parliment) on business and as I went through the metal detectors I buzzed. On emptying my pockets, I realisied that I had my Trever Ablett folding knife on me. It was a folder and under 3 inches. the security guard asked me to leave it behind in a named envelope, which I did and was able to collect it when leaving. There was no drama and no questions were asked.
Last edited by Celt_Ginger; 25-07-2008 at 12:37.
Settler
Settler
Hi David
I appreciate that by taking away a tool that may potentially be used in crime the crime can no longer take place. This has been implemented in prisons for decades but the sad truth is that criminals will find an alternative glass, rulers, pens, combs and almost anything else that can be fashioned into a cutting or stabbing implement.
Some of my best friends are hooded suspicious looking characters and carry knives as tools for opening boxes, letters, peeling apples, whittling and because it is their habit to so because history has told us that you never know when you may need to use one of the most basic tools in mans toolbox.
Where does this leave me with spare fuel and rope in the truck will I be labeled as a potential member of the KKK. Or a prepared motorist.
The only people to suffer in this narrow minded approach will be legitimate users and the freedom they are entitled to that is being eroded daily.
Pothunter.
Settler
Settler
Celt_Ginger, common sense what is the world coming to next you will be telling me handgun shooting is alive and well and flourishes in the Emerald Isle.
Pothunter.
Tenderfoot
Tenderfoot
@pothunter I couldn't agree more. It's all about the intention to which a knife is carried. And since laws as such are not intelligent enough to distinguish between good and bad intent it is up to the enforcers to apply laws intelligently.
Enough of this now (for me at least), the weather's nice and work is almost done. Time to go home and get the canoe out!
Nomad
Nomad
Sorry, but you could not claim`legitimate use` if you took it to court in a mess tin.
Settler
Settler
Tehere's a few things here-
1. he broke the law, it is illegal to carry a knife wiht a locking blade without good reason. I use a knife everyday and find a non locking one to be fine, the law is really quite adequate.
2. It is a bit silly to tak a knife into a courthouse anyway, not technically illegal i don't think but comes into the same sort of category as bars, clubs, schools etc, they're just not somewhere it is neccessary to have a knife.
3. His age, occupation and previous records are nothing to do with the matter, he wasn't being targeted and admitting to breaking the law doesn't mean you should get off of the charges. AS far as i'm concerned all people are equal under the law, so if i as a scruffy 18 year old took a knife to court, and would be arrested, charged and imprisoned, then so should he.
Banned
Native
Perhaps you can all see now why this countrys in such a state,with the various answers in this thread,where's the common sense gone.
Bernie
Settler
Settler
The real problem with the country is typified by senile old duffers in their 60s who are apparently unaware of the inadvisability of carrying blades into courtrooms.
It's the lack of common sense shown by Mr Read that started this thread.
Banned
Native
Different story though no doubt if said old duffer was your father or grandfather,what a lot of you seem to forget is these old duffers,are a totally different generation,and its very hard for them to change there habits,they come from an era when the local bobby used to give you a clip round the ear,when wrong doing,and common sense was the norm.The real problem with the country is typified by senile old duffers in their 60s who are apparently unaware of the inadvisability of carrying blades into courtrooms.
It's the lack of common sense shown by Mr Read that started this thread.
Bernie
Settler
Settler
How do you define a locking knife ??
I have a knife which I would call a locking knife, as it has a lever to release it when it is in the open position.
But the knife I usually carry is a Case Seahorse, which does not have a lever to lock it, but it does click into position solidly and stays there.
I would call them both locking knives but are they??
I find a lot of the comments on this subject less than constructive as I go everywhere with a knife in my pocket.
But then I rearly spend time in what I would call public places
Last edited by bothyman; 25-07-2008 at 15:57. Reason: trying to get in right.
Tradition means not picking up the ashes, but passing on the flame.
Tenderfoot
Tenderfoot
time to put this to rest, ban all knives ,anything made from plastic,glass,metal,resin or ceramic,give everyone a wooden spoon just like the one I purchased from rancid badger at the last forest festival,its pure bushcraft art and very practical too
Settler
Settler
Just because it used to be ok, doesn't mean that you can do it now, the law is the law, regardless of what recollections we may have of "the olden days"
a knife is a locking knife if you have to do something to it before you colse it- so if you have to depress a button, press a lever, move a liner, then it is a "locking knife" if you can "readily fold at all times" then it's not a locking knife
Tenderfoot
Tenderfoot
dear wallenstein,you too will be in your sixties one day!
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