kuksa making instructions

[mmcniven]

Hi

I have already carved a Kuksa ( Finnish carved cup) but was wondering if there are any web sites that explain how it is done properly. I know that traditionally it is finished with paraffin and salt but how is this done. Any sources of info on this topic would be appreciated.

Michael :shock:

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Pop off an email to ragnar@ragweedforge.com I believe he has a text on the subject and firsthand knowledge. Tell him I sent you.

[wolf]

can you buy these?

[redcollective]

Yes, have a look here: http://www.tregor.co.uk/nordic.html

[wolf]

thank you very useful

[Jared]

Some nice ones on Kellam Knives too.

Thought not quite sure why you'd want a knife in the handle of one.

[redcollective]

Also have a look at this post for more information and some good links - if you trawl Bushcraftuk enough you'll probably find what you are looking for.

You've got me interested now. I've just finished a spoon with a bowl so deep and useless for eating it may as well be a kuksa!

[match]

Just spent the weekend at the Scottish Meetup doing just this - from a piece of greenwood birch from the site.

Took a log, split off two edges with an axe to leave a central rectangular cuboid shape. Sawed this into two lengthways to make two square blocks of wood - enough for two kuksas.

Draw out a rough circle cup shape on top - make sure the grain runs in the same direction as the handle, not across it.

Carve out a cup shape hollow with a spoon gouge, chop out or saw out a thinner handle shape from the rest.

Keep carving into the cup until its deep enough, then turn over and shave off the outside to round it off underneath.

Drill or carve two holes for fingers into the handle piece, then carve these out.

I'll post some pics of my progress once I get them off my camera.

[match]

Finally got round to offloading my camera pictures - and found that only one of the kuksa-making ones is clear - still it shows enough to give the idea of how it is formed out of a split log:



The handle stem (eventually shortened a lot) was made with an axe, the bowl shape was worked with a rounded wood gouge and a spoon knife, the back of the bowl was worked at first with an axe, then with a small knife.

I'm now onto the coarse sanding stage (i.e its 'finished' but still has the odd nick or scratch here and there).

I'll post pictures of this and the fine sanding etc a bit later (hopefully less than two months time )

A few questions about the final finish. I've heard people recommend both the 'london finish' technique as well as boiling in salt water, followed by oiling.

Any advantages/disadvantages of london finish/salt boiling?

Which oil? Beeswax is presumably not heatproof, vegetable oil etc is probably not penetratinng enough, linseed might taint the flavour and take a long time to dry, and mineral oil probably isn't god for eating?

OK - http://www.yle.fi/matochfritid/hobby.php?id=121 suggests rough carving, then boiling in salt water (slows drying and prevents cracking) for 6-8 weeks, then sanding down, 'london finish' then fine sanding and oiling.

Jury is still out on the milk-boiling though...

[Hoodoo]

It's not a kuksa but I just finished carving this tankard. Pretty much the same process. Right now it has a couple coats of mineral oil on it. The wood is butternut. You can see how it darkened up from the before and after shots.

[BorderReiver]

Very nice Hoodoo.

[match]

Right, here is the finished article:



(Sorry for the soft glow - the camera I'm using didn't like me). It holds about 250ml of liquid - i.e one mugful

I'm now applying a London Finish (i.e dipping in water, leaving to dry and sanding of the 'fuzz' that raises 2 or 3 times).

After that a good application of oil (probably sunflower or similar) and that should be it finished. The wood is birch and so has a beautiful grain when wet which I'm hoping the oiling will show...

[Toddy]

Just seen the photo Match, now that is a lovely piece of work

Incidentally, historically boiling in milk was used to repair hairline fractures in porcelain cups. A croggie, a domestic hearth fired type of Scottish pottery that's been made for eons is sealed by pouring milk over it shortly after the pot is removed from the ashes and is still hot. The sealant works really well, hot or cold, and doesn't taint food.

Cheers,
Toddy

[pierre girard]

Hi

I have already carved a Kuksa ( Finnish carved cup) but was wondering if there are any web sites that explain how it is done properly. I know that traditionally it is finished with paraffin and salt but how is this done. Any sources of info on this topic would be appreciated.

Michael :shock:

We have something similar - canoe cup, or naagan. Here are a couple I did a number of years ago. The one on the left is birch burl. It is an 18th century French Canadian engage pattern. The one on the right is maple burl. I made the bottom flat so I could set it down. They were carved with a crooked knife. for the flat bottom one I had to fire up the forge and bend a crooked knife to an angle close to 90 degrees.





PG

[wolf]

We have something similar - canoe cup, or naagan. Here are a couple I did a number of years ago. The one on the left is birch burl. It is an 18th century French Canadian engage pattern. The one on the right is maple burl. I made the bottom flat so I could set it down. They were carved with a crooked knife. for the flat bottom one I had to fire up the forge and bend a crooked knife to an angle close to 90 degrees.





PG

nice work.. do you use them still?for coffee?

[martin]

Here's one I've been carving, as you can see I'm not finished yet. I'm going to leave the bit of bark on just to make it look different.

[Kiamyr]

What wood is that Martin?

[martin]

It's Silver Birch. It was a lump of fire wood I had with me the last time I went fishing. The pike didn't want to come out to play and I was getting a bit bored. I had my carving gear with me so I set to and made it while lent against my Landy watching my floats.
Great way to spend your 40th birthday

[match]

Finished!

Having completed the london finish (repeated 3 times until there was no 'fuzz' rising to sand off) I then boiled the kuksa in vegetable oil for about 45 minutes, til it stopped bubbling (water and air escaping from the grain). This has darkened the wood a lot, but really made the birch grain look beautiful. Its happily stood up to both hot and cold liquids with no staining, and will hopefully serve me well with no more than an occasional oiling every now and then.

So here it is:




My only advice to anyone repeating this process - if you boil it inside your house will smell like roasted peanuts for about a week afterwards

Now off to finish off my first attempt at making a whip...

[pierre girard]

nice work.. do you use them still?for coffee?

Every trip - for everything I drink. We hang them off the belt or sash. Each one is made to hold exactly one cup - liquid measure. I have a very nice round bottomed one - in the same shape as the one at the left in the previous photo. The bottom is carved to look like a turtle. Wife has it stuck away somewhere and we couldn't find it.

My first really good burl cup (much nicer than either of those shown) had very thin walls to the cup. You can guess the rest. Very cold weather - very hot coffee - split right in half. I've made the walls thicker since.

I make a lot of them in aspen or basswood (very easy to carve) for re-sale, and when I used to guide - I would make one for each client - out on the trail.

I really like the looks of the kuksa's you-all have made - kind of a different style. Have never seen one before. Odd - with the number of Suomi around here. The only thing they make like that are birch sauna ladles.

I was intrigued by the link which said they were boiled a long time in salt water - to cure them. I've never done anything with them except wash them with warm water, dry them, and swish a little bear oil or olive oil around inside - and wipe off the excess. The flat-bottomed cup has a little crack in the lip. It was in the original piece of burl and has not cracked any more in 15 years of use.

PG

[wolf]

Every trip - for everything I drink. We hang them off the belt or sash. Each one is made to hold exactly one cup - liquid measure. I have a very nice round bottomed one - in the same shape as the one at the left in the previous photo. The bottom is carved to look like a turtle. Wife has it stuck away somewhere and we couldn't find it.

My first really good burl cup (much nicer than either of those shown) had very thin walls to the cup. You can guess the rest. Very cold weather - very hot coffee - split right in half. I've made the walls thicker since.

I make a lot of them in aspen or basswood (very easy to carve) for re-sale, and when I used to guide - I would make one for each client - out on the trail.

I really like the looks of the kuksa's you-all have made - kind of a different style. Have never seen one before. Odd - with the number of Suomi around here. The only thing they make like that are birch sauna ladles.

I was intrigued by the link which said they were boiled a long time in salt water - to cure them. I've never done anything with them except wash them with warm water, dry them, and swish a little bear oil or olive oil around inside - and wipe off the excess. The flat-bottomed cup has a little crack in the lip. It was in the original piece of burl and has not cracked any more in 15 years of use.

PG

why do they hang of your sash?do you walk around say when you are hunting with them on,or only when in the canoe,what is the purpose ??? thanks..

[pierre girard]

why do they hang of your sash?do you walk around say when you are hunting with them on,or only when in the canoe,what is the purpose ??? thanks..

More likely walking around. It's a traditional thing. In the canoe, I stuff it in the top of my pack or, using the toggle, attach it to a thwart. In the canoe, if we are on a large lake, I drink from the lake. In streams or smaller lakes, I am more careful due to giardia.

Purpose is - find a spring - take a drink.

PG

[match]

I was intrigued by the link which said they were boiled a long time in salt water - to cure them. I've never done anything with them except wash them with warm water, dry them, and swish a little bear oil or olive oil around inside - and wipe off the excess. The flat-bottomed cup has a little crack in the lip. It was in the original piece of burl and has not cracked any more in 15 years of use.
PG

The salt-water boiling is done to slow the drying of the cup. The initial carving is done in green wood, and then this is boiled in salt water to drive salt into the grain. This causes the wood to dry out much more slowly, which reduces the risk of cracking as the wood dries, especially since the wood has been carved to a quite thin wall.

The two steps I added - the London Finish and boiling in oil are both optional, but the London Finish gives a much nicer (and smoother) surface, making it nicer to drink out of and less absorbent and the oiling drives the oil deep into the grain meaning that even hot liquids and things with strong flavours don't make their way deep into the grain.

[wolf]

The salt-water boiling is done to slow the drying of the cup. The initial carving is done in green wood, and then this is boiled in salt water to drive salt into the grain. This causes the wood to dry out much more slowly, which reduces the risk of cracking as the wood dries, especially since the wood has been carved to a quite thin wall.

The two steps I added - the London Finish and boiling in oil are both optional, but the London Finish gives a much nicer (and smoother) surface, making it nicer to drink out of and less absorbent and the oiling drives the oil deep into the grain meaning that even hot liquids and things with strong flavours don't make their way deep into the grain.

do you let the oil dry before actually using the cup?

[pierre girard]

The salt-water boiling is done to slow the drying of the cup. The initial carving is done in green wood, and then this is boiled in salt water to drive salt into the grain. This causes the wood to dry out much more slowly, which reduces the risk of cracking as the wood dries, especially since the wood has been carved to a quite thin wall.

The two steps I added - the London Finish and boiling in oil are both optional, but the London Finish gives a much nicer (and smoother) surface, making it nicer to drink out of and less absorbent and the oiling drives the oil deep into the grain meaning that even hot liquids and things with strong flavours don't make their way deep into the grain.

I've done all my burl carvings in dry wood. Very hard work, but guarantees my work has not gone for naught. The cups I've made in green aspen and basswood are quickly done, and it is no great loss if they split, though I do some cups in green straight grain birch and maple that might benefit from the salt treatment. Thank you. Always good to learn something new.

PG

[wolf]

More likely walking around. It's a traditional thing. In the canoe, I stuff it in the top of my pack or, using the toggle, attach it to a thwart. In the canoe, if we are on a large lake, I drink from the lake. In streams or smaller lakes, I am more careful due to giardia.

Purpose is - find a spring - take a drink.

PG

hi pierre i was inspired by your cups,and the use of the toggles,so i added my own antler toggle to my cup,now i just need to make the canoe...
[][
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cheers.....

[pierre girard]

hi pierre i was inspired by your cups,and the use of the toggles,so i added my own antler toggle to my cup,now i just need to make the canoe...

cheers.....

Toggle looks good! You want to have the thong long enough so it can go around your belt. The toggle needs to be long enough to go between the looped thong and hold it in place.

Making a canoe is a little beyond what I can convey on a website. If you can come up with 12 to 14 pieces of birchbark 3 feet X 4 feet, 1/8 inch thick, and pliable - flatten them between two pallets - the top one filled with rocks, in a dry place, for a couple months, and we'll talk.

Truth is - I sold my birchbark canoe. Just too much trouble. I have eight others and it was just too much upkeep.

My grandfather and his fathers family never really liked birchbark canoes. Lot of work, and they'd only last two years in the rocky rivers near where they lived. They also built dugout canoes - some of which are still around. They would name the dugouts. My grandfather's dugout canoe was named "The Lone Trapper." Get two people in it, and it would capsize. They were very beautiful canoes. Looked more like a piece of parlor furniture than a canoe.

Here is how they would build them:

They would start with a piece of clear virgin white pine log. White pine is a very special wood - in that you can drive a large nail within a short distance of the end of a board and it will not split.

They would square one side (which would end up being the "top") with a broad-axe, draw the outline of the canoe, and take after it with axes to get the exterior roughed out. Then they would go after the exterior with drawknives and crooked knives. They would finish it with flat smooth stones and sand. Once they had the exterior looking the way they wanted it, they would drill a series of small holes the exact depth they wanted the thickness to be.

They would take an adz after the interior, followed by chizels, crooked knives, stones and sand. They would take out wood until they hit the small holes they'd drilled. They would plug the holes with the proverbial square peg in a round hole. When they had the tool work done, they would fill the dugout with water, and heat stones, lifting the hot stones into the dugout with two antlers. They would wedge the belly of the canoe out until the canoe reached the correct form. They later used a Model T jack for this. The wedging often took three or four times to get the shape correct.

These were extremely beautiful canoes made by people learned in their craft. They were about 5/8 inch thick on the sides, though they were thicker at the bow and stern. The texture was smooth as a gunstock. They were very heavy to portage though, and that is why they also made birchbark canoes.

Care of the dugout canoe included sinking them in deep water every winter, and laying canvas over them, so they wouldn't crack, when they were out of the water. The virgin white pine was very rot resistent.

About 1918 my grandfather bought a stove-in Oldtown canoe from the US forest Service, repaired it, and they never made another birchbark or dugout canoe. By the time I wanted to make a birchbark canoe, he really couldn't remember much about making them and I had to go elsewhere to find out how.

PG

[match]

do you let the oil dry before actually using the cup?

Surprisingly with the boiling technique, very little drying is needed. As the wood is hot when you take it out the oil, you just need to hang it up, and as the wood cools it traps the oil in the wood pores. After hanging up overnight it was dry enough to use for hot and cold liquids. The first cup or two had a very slight film of vegetable oil on the surface, but this soon disappeared.

Interestingly, I thought I should re-oil after trying out various liquids, so I rubbed some cold oil into the kuksa and hung it up to dry. The oil didn't really absorb at all and just dripped off the cup onto the floor, making a mess but showing that the wood really has sealed well

[Mad Mike]

This boiling in oil - how similer is this to deep fat frying

I was wondering how high a temp you use
Krispy Kuksa is not something I would want to make by accident

[ravem]

Anyone who speak finnish can translate this ?

http://gamma.nic.fi/~esa2k/kuksa.htm