Water Purification

[Raz]

What do you guys use?

I'm starting to get a little paranoid these days, the diabolical crap that runs into the rivers from farmer’s fields here is simply petrifying.

I'm trying to find a pump of some-sort that can cater for small group of people and kills everything; chemicals, bacteria, viruses, the lot!
I'll use a millbank if the waters muddy.
So doe's such a thing exist (cheaply?)

[Viking]

I use a chemical called aquacare just a few drops in the water and wait 10 minutes and then the water is ready to drink =)

[PC2K]

the only pump i know of that purifies water and is portable is the First Need (Deluxe) Water.


never had to purify water my self....

[tenbears10]

As far as I know things do exist but they are not cheap. Katadyn make a ceramic filter that kills everything nasty you can think of. They are standard issue to the red cross but last time I saw one it was £200. Oh and being ceramic if you drop it you break the filter.

First Need ones are much less money, more like £50 and again they can even filter nuclear contamination but I wouldn't want to try it.

I don't know who stocks them but a google search should bring some joy.

Bill

[tenbears10]

just found this

http://www.katadyn.net/katadyn_pocket.html

But as I thought $200 and extras if you want carbon filters as well

Bill

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Pop over to our review of water purification @ www.equipped.org. I know there is a large group unit over there called the Berkshire. It is extremely expensive. Briefly, you have these options and considerations; boiling, mechanical filtering and chemical treatment ( sometimes the last two combined.) There are many field expedient methods also. Filtering through clean sand will remove particulates and charcoal many nasties.

[Raz]

That Katadyn Pocket Filter looks just the ticket! Especially with the naglene charcoal adaptor!
Only problem, it doesn’t filter viruses. So I'll have to look into what secondary treatment I'll need to kill them. But I don't think there’s much worry for that in the UK.
But at that price it'll sit on my wish-list! :shock:

[clcuckow]

There is the Pre-Mac http://www.pre-mac.com range which range from £20 for the pocket travel well. I have one in my shell pocket but have not had a need for it yet so I cannot comment on the taste.

These are some of the civilian ones.

pocket travel well



trekker travel well



travel well ranger



They also do much bigger electric and hand pump models

[Dave]

[Grumbling, and wondering why there isnt an emoticon for this]
so does that mean the iodine tincture kit i recently bought is sub standard and not worth the dosh?

[Martyn]

The Pre-Mac treker pumps are much cheaper at around £65, but they only filter 200 litres. After that you need to stick a new filter in them at £25 each. The ceramic Katadyn filters, filter up to 13,000 US gallons (and also at 4x the flow rate of the Pre-Mac) but cost around £130. If you're gonna use the thing a lot, the katadyn filter could work out much cheaper in the longrun.

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Your iodine is an excellent chemical approach. We have iodine,clorine and pottassium permanganate as options. With proper dosage and elapsed treatment time ( varies with temperature) These will zap most of the critters. Cryptosporidium has a very tough skin and only responds to boiling or mechanical filtration. Also be aware that some people cannot handle iodine. Our forum is crashed and I cannot recall the particulars at this time, but it is a concern. For survival needs, proper hydration takes precedence over critters. No sense dying of thirst to avoid even the nastiest of gastro intestinal illnesses. For Bushcraft though you have a more liesurely pace to prepare water. A quality filter will produce goodly amounts very rapidly. So, if you've gotten lost and crawl to a puddle suffering severe dehydration a filter is the way to go. No reason to wait around for a iodine tablet to work.Of course, if your lying in some alley behind a pub it's time for some compass work :roll: . Chemical purification is a good compromise when your carrying capacity is limited. A pilot punching out of a tornado carries purification tablets. You lads are boiling up some nettle and mushroom soup with miniature nessies porpoising about anyway :shock:

[bigjackbrass]

[quote="Raz"]I'm starting to get a little paranoid these days, the diabolical crap that runs into the rivers from farmer’s fields here is simply petrifying.[quote]

Just one thing to remember: very few methods of water purification will eliminate toxic chemicals. A few even intensify the concentration without affecting the toxicity. If you are concerned about something like farm runoff and agricultural chemicals then check with the manufacturer of a filter or purifier to see what they say their system can handle.

Generally speaking it pays not to treat a filter like a a cure-all. Select the best water source you can regardless of how you will be treating it. This also makes sense for mechanical filters because they are notorious for clogging if you try to filter muddy water with them. Stretch a sock or bandanna over the hose intake to keep much of the crud out.

Prolonged use of iodine is linked with thyroid problems. Some people need to avoid iodine for this reason.

[Gary]

Millbank bags are good to filter out suspended matter - remember to boil your water before using it - either that or treat it.

Chemical - errr - I dont recommend em - Iodine can effect pregenant women or people with throyide - Chlorine can cause cancer - both need a contact time and this is temperature dependant.

Pumps and filter - read the labels boys some dont measure up if you read the small print and some are just plain expensive.

The PRE-MAC ONES ARE WITHOUT THE BEST - top tip to pre-long your filters life is to tie a small square of fine material (from a pair of tights) over the filter. That will help stop it sucking up larger bits of crap.

Also remember to flood the thread on your water bottles cap after the water is treated so you know the bit you put to your lips is clean as well as the water inside it.

[Raz]

Good Stuff Chaps!

So far the MSR miniworks EX is the winner,
Becuase:

It's used by the U.S marines.
Connects directly to naglene, dromedary bags, and hydromedary packs
Long filter life (2000 Litres)
Charcol core for pesticides (unlike Katadyn pocket filter)
1 handed operation
Fast Flow rate (1L per min)

[tedw]

THe BMC Summit article on water purification, at http://www.thebmc.co.uk/safety/advic...ue28_water.pdf is worth a read as background information and includes a link to the US NSF which tests some products.

[Stuart]

RAZ

the MSR miniworks EX does not get rid of Viruses :shock: it is a filter not a Purifier it will only remove Bacteria and other things large enough to be caught by the filter

to be totally safe (especially when in countrys like africa) you would still need to chemically treat the water

Purifiers chemically treat the water before filtering it

look for purifiers and ignore anyhting that says filter otherwise its only doing half the job

The MSR MIOX® is the only Purifier MSR currently make

i have not used this one though does anyone have any experiance with it?
it looks very intresting

I agree with Gary the simplest purifiers i have used are the PRE-MAC

[tedw]

Anybody got any knowledge of or opinions on these purifier water-bottles being sold ob E-bay?:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...category=14423

Sounds good - but so did the poll tax!

[johnboy]

mmmmmm.

Check out the sellers feedback. :shock:

would you buy your water purification system from someone who sells flashing dog collars?? :-?

The item is long on info and has a catalogue picture always a sign to be wary of especially when you see a feedback profile north of 500.
Catalogue pic + high feedback = ebay trader. Which is not a bad thing if they only tend to trade in 1 thing (outdoor kit for example). When it's all sorts then I'd be wary.

I cannot comment if the filter works or not. But I personally wouldn't feel comfortable buying a pretty essential bit of kit from such a source.

cheers

John

[Raz]

That .PDF was excellent thankyou.
I'm sold on a purifier as opposed to a filter.

Checked out most of the online outdoors magazines, and this tops the bill:
General Ecology First Need Deluxe Water Purifier
http://www.backcountry-equipment.com...firstneed.html

Very similar to the Miniworks, but a purifier, and chemical free!
Also works as a gravity filter, which is VERY usefull.

[Ed]

tedw: If the filter/purifier does work it should be a good little bit of kit. The add states.... and I quote

The most thoroughly tested portable water filter and purification bottle in the world. As tested by London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine .

You could always contact them yourself and see what they say... maybe even ask for a copy of the test results ;-)

Ed

[tedw]

Good idea :-) . I've e-mailed them and will pass on any reply. The E-bay sale will be over by then, but its worth storing away for the future.

Ted W

[alick]

Hi Raz,
I think that the approach to water depends a lot on where you are.
In my old home ground - the lakes - I drink water straight from the stream and always have done with no ill effects. But it's pretty clean up there except for maybe the nuclear fallout. :twisted:

In more cultivated and developed areas, I'm not so confident and actually I've just managed to pick up an MSR miniworks off ebay. Reasons for this choice - I don't care for chemical purification if I can avoid it.

There's so much chemical crap in our food and air these days that my standards for what I consider safe for my kids is a lot more rigorous than my standards for myself.

Seems to me a good filter will deal with everything except viruses. Viruses aren't a problem in every water source - they're much more of an issue in inhabited areas. When I need to, I can pre treat the water with a chemical disinfectant to zap the viruses (and I have the choice of using chlorine, iodine, oxygen etc treatments, I don't have to drink Iodine every time I use it). Then I can filter it, and the charcoal stage of the MSR will help get rid of the disinfectant taste.

And we still have to be careful, since there are plenty of chemical pollutants that will go right through any filter.

So much for the theory - I should get the MSR later in the week. Cheers

[Raz]

Hey Alick,

Excellent, let us know how you get on with it.
I don't think it's ever really worth taking the chance personaly. Yah just don't know!

[alick]

Raz, will do :-)

By the way, lots of user reviews of Katadyn and MSR filters here :
http://www.outdoorreview.com/Backpac...S_2960crx.aspx

Cheers, Alick

[tedw]

Old news now, probably, but just to confirm that the British military issue the Pre-Mac SWP water purifier for survival purposes.

As to the Seychelles Pres2Pure water bottles - suspicion of the marketing blurb was justified. I spoke to a chap at the RN Sea Survival School at HMS Sultan and they have NOT tested these things. They issue the Pre-Mac SWP to all their students.

[Ed]

Cheers for the getting that info tedw. It looked too good to be true... what a shame :-(

Ed

[Mikey P]

Have used the Katadyn Trek Ranger Well and that seemed to work OK. I'm still here, anyway.

Mind you, can be a bit expensive to replace the filters. Suggest you filter through Millbank bag or - euurrgghhh - sock before you pump.

[Fallow Way]

I have a Pre-Mac, and with anything I buy to use, I`ve tested it, and it copes. I used it to supply drinking water in a few areas, I cant recommend it enough.

[Mikey P]

"Errrr...hang on a minute" (in a Blackadder style)

I've just had a look at the Pre-Mac and, blow me if it doesn't look exactly the same as the Katadyn Trek Well Ranger! Is this the case or have I just made a complete ar*e of myself?

[Hoodoo]

Good thread guys!

My first water filter was a First Need. Didn't take long for that one to plug up. Ya definitely want to carry a spare filter if you choose that one but if you are worried about organics, that's prolly an excellent choice. I carred a Katadyn Pocket Filter for over twenty years but it seemed to get heavier and heavier as the years went by. Takes a grown man and a boy to pump it too. I now carry a Pur Hiker (now owned by Katadyn as well) and love it. Light and easy to pump. Extra filters are light too. This is an ultrareliable filter that you can backflush if hardpressed. Not much good for organics but where I hike and canoe, this is usually not a serious problem. I've also heard great things about MSR as well. Most filters that take out organics aren't all that effective anyway imo, especially after prolonged use.