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Thread: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

  1. #1

    Default Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Mr Mears talks about using waterstones in his books but sells diamond/ceramic on t'website.
    What are the relative pros and cons?

    I currently use a Lansky system but whilst I get em sharp I can never get razor, any (non techie!) tips welcome.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Both have many pros and cons. In the end it comes down to personal preference...

    I use a DC4 (ceramic) personally and then strop on the case, which seems to work for me.

    When you sharpen it leaves a wire on the edge which can blunt the edge and ruin all your hard work, stropping removes the wire.
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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    The nice thing about the ceramic/diamond hones is that the nickle plate holding the diamond dust makes the stone very stong and hard to break. Unless you smash it or lose it, a ceramic or diamond hone will last a lifetime with little to no care. I know of one carpenter who keeps his ceramic hones on the shed windowsill outside and the carbon steel (he doesn't use stainless blades) just rusts off the surface!

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Plus the DC3 and DC4 are pretty light weight and nice and small. My DC4 lives in my pocket whenever I take my puuku anywhere...
    Modern 'Civilisation'? Pah!

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    I have always taught that a diamond stone takes off more metal and as such effects the longevity of a blade while waterstones are a little more forgiving. Att he end of the day as the guys say there are pros and cons to each system you just need to find what suits you best and what suits your knife!

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary
    I have always taught that a diamond stone takes off more metal and as such effects the longevity of a blade while waterstones are a little more forgiving. Att he end of the day as the guys say there are pros and cons to each system you just need to find what suits you best and what suits your knife!
    Yes, using diamond regularly will wear out the blade sooner ... but that's what I love about the DC04 package because I get a medium/fine ceramic and a medium/coarse diamond.

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    I like diamond hones for sharpening really dull knives that have a high Rockwell hardness. They are also great if you want to "rough sharpen" a knife. They leave nice microserrations that are good for sliceing things like tomatoes and meat. They are also good for reprofiling blades but I have worn out several lansky diamond hones (adapted to my GATCO sharpener) by reprofiling high Rockwell knives. One other thing I like about diamond hones is that they often come in small packages which makes them great for field carry.
    Hoodoo

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Water stones are only really practical for bench sharpening. The idea of cutting one in half and carting it around for field sharpening is utter rubbish, even if it is taught on certain courses. It can be done, but WHY would you want to?!? Diamond and ceramic stones are so much more convenient in the field.

    In the capacity of bench sharpening, water stones are great. They are relatively cheap, and come in a wide range of grits, not just "Coarse, Medium and Fine".

    If all you sharpen is bushcraft knives then something like the DC4 could be all you need, but if you also have chisels, planes, axes, etc, then a set of water stones will be very worth while. You can buy several grits for the cost of a ceramic bench stone too. The main down side is that they are a bit messy and don't stay flat, they need to be dressed every so often. That said, many ceramic stones aren't really flat. The bench stones are, but many pocket hones are not. I wouldn't touch one of my fine chisels with a DC4!!

    Lurch, sorry I can't give any good tips for the Lansky system. I have never even handled one :roll:. I can only think that you could need to strop the edge, that there is a wire that needs removing. I haven often had a knife that seems a bit dull after sharpening suddenly become razor like after a quick strop.
    Chris

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    I agree Chris ... the idea of cutting a waterstone seems a little odd to me.

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    i must be odd then

  11. #11

    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    and me.

    Who has a gransfors round 'puck' like stone? Well I made one for a fraction of the cost by cutting the end off an axminster combination stone and the rest of the stone is still good for home sharpening.

    Bill

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    I use diamond for stock removal and emergency edges. I use ceramic for just about all else. Even a fine diamond is like a course ceramic in my opinion. The DMT range is great. I use a fine/course duo folder for field work and a pocket ultra fine to give the edge a polish. The results are just about acceptable to me. I need to accept that the badgers are not in the slightest bit interested in how well my knife shaves arm hair!
    Wayne
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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Quote Originally Posted by tenbears10
    and me.

    Who has a gransfors round 'puck' like stone? Well I made one for a fraction of the cost by cutting the end off an axminster combination stone and the rest of the stone is still good for home sharpening.

    Bill
    Me! And I really like it! The rubber shells protect it and keep your leg dry when you use it and I didn't have to knacker me saw to make it!
    Modern 'Civilisation'? Pah!

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Quote Originally Posted by C_Claycomb
    If all you sharpen is bushcraft knives then something like the DC4 could be all you need, but if you also have chisels, planes, axes, etc, then a set of water stones will be very worth while.
    Nah if you're sharpening, Chisels, Planes, Axes, etc you want Tormek Sharpening System :P

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    They do make small pocket waterstones that are fairly light. I have a couple, a 4000 and a 1000. Much better than cutting up a big one which never made sense to me. Good for quick touch up of a scandi blade.
    Hoodoo

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Hoodoo as the new God of all thing Convex - what do you use in the field for them? I have a leather pad made of sole leather and this works well but I would appreciate your wisdom there.

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    I carry a Spyderco 303MF with me everywhere, it's thin, tough and does all you need in a portable sharpener for keeping a blade with a good edge, unless you've completely knackered your blade ... and then you ought to start considering that you've got the wrong knife ... waterstones generally need to be kept in a waterbath and are fragile ... not good for carrying around in your pocket

    “What the subject dissimulates, and by means of which they dissimulate, is also the very form of its disclosure.”

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary
    Hoodoo as the new God of all thing Convex - what do you use in the field for them? I have a leather pad made of sole leather and this works well but I would appreciate your wisdom there.
    What size and how thick is the leather Gary? ... you could try getting some diamond paste to go with that leather and/or spray mount some Wet'n'dry to one side of it
    “What the subject dissimulates, and by means of which they dissimulate, is also the very form of its disclosure.”

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    The leather I use is about 11/2 wide and about 12 inches long (like a ruler) - its 5 mil thick but its proper sole leather so its incredably tough stuff.

    Thus far I has worked fine as a strop for re-edging the convex in the field but I was just wondering what others use.

    For base camp ect I now have a hoodoo hone so thats taken care of.

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Gary, I carry those little wooden hones. They weigh almost nothing and you can easily carry a few slips of sandpaper to keep your knives sharp for weeks. The main reason I made them was for field carry although at home, I clamp them in the vise and use them routinely. Often I clamp the knife in the vise and hold the hone in my hand to sharpen.
    Hoodoo

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Have you guys seen those erasers that you can use to clean ceramic rods and stones. Very cool! No more scouring cleaner!
    Hoodoo

    . . . deliverance will not come from the rushing, noisy centres of civilization. It will come from the lonely places. - Fridtjof Nansen

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    What size are those blocks then? My base camp set is about the size of a paper back.

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    I use a diamond stone, never had any problems with it (that'l change now i've said that), I hone with a ceramic honer. But as the guys have said, it's all down to personal preference. ack:
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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Ok, got the ruler out. Lesseee, which side is metric...? :?:

    Right. There it is in m&m's. :wink:

    I got about 11.5 cm long, 3.7 cm wide, and around 2 cm tall (not including the pad). You can make them any size you want, eh? :uu:
    Hoodoo

    . . . deliverance will not come from the rushing, noisy centres of civilization. It will come from the lonely places. - Fridtjof Nansen

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Cheers Hoodoo, I am sure they can be made any size but I would wonder if a too smaller size would encumber rather than enhance performance. Mine ar roughly the same size as yours btw - so I guess I wil have to go smaller just to see.

    Anyway cheers.

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Right , I don't use my knife very often and its as blunt as owt ( shock horror )

    When I was a lad my Dad had loads of whetstones and oilstones for his chisels , flat they were and about the size of a bar of chocolate

    I've scoured the B&Q's and what have you but can't find one anywhere

    Surely there's a high street diy store that sells them ?

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    The problem is that the high street stores tend to only sell carborundum stones.

    Best bet would be to mail order from Tilgear in Cufley, Axminster, or someone similar.

    Tabwell tools in Bakewell had good stones, but they are hardly a common highstreet store :roll:
    Chris

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    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Take a look at www.axminster.co.uk ... fantastic stuff there at a good price.

    For a DC04, this place ahas good prices: http://www.tregor.co.uk/dc4.html

  29. #29

    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    All good stuff.
    Even though I have just shaved the back of my hand following post Lansky stropping, I have ordered a DC04 and waterstone starter kit to have a go at the different methods.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Waterstone vs diamond/ceramic

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary
    I have always taught that a diamond stone takes off more metal and as such effects the longevity of a blade while waterstones are a little more forgiving. Att he end of the day as the guys say there are pros and cons to each system you just need to find what suits you best and what suits your knife!
    Gary knows that I am a fan of waterstones, but they have a place, have one or two at home, but for field maintenance use a ceramic. :-)

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