Bushcraft Etiquette (resurrected)

[BOD]

I dispute the claim that the walkers who walk ahead and faster leaving the others behind are the more experienced walkers.

All it shows is that they are any or all of these:

1. inexperienced leaders
2. use walks as speed challenges or exercise
3. self -centred
4. inconsiderate
5. see the destination as a goal and not the enjoyment of the walk
6. have yet to learn how to observe what goes on around them
7. think "distance or speed matters" not quality
8. have not learnt to pace themselves
9 are probably not woodsmen / woodswomen just "hikers"
10 call walks "hikes" or "treks"
11 often are restless during overnight camping


My preference when taking a group out is to be the tail end Charlie and let the trail pounders go ahead with a colleague to lead, if necessary. The noise made by the group will scare game off anyway and I have time to stop and look which is difficult if people are walking behind you.

If needed, I close up with the stragglers who often, wahtever the reason for being slow, are more open to the enjoyment of the walk and interesting people. The braggers are often at the front of the group.

[Wayland]

And thats the reason why I don't go to meets and campsites!

I've never been disturbed at BCUK meets by music (mechanical or live) and it's certainly not a good excuse for not turning out to a meet Red.

You'll have to do better than that..

[ganstey]

I dispute the claim that the walkers who walk ahead and faster leaving the others behind are the more experienced walkers.

Not sure if that refers to my post or not (no offence taken either way). In the example I described, those that pushed on were experienced walkers (I knew them). For them walking is a form of exercise, not an opportunity to observe and take in their surroundings. Each to their own I suppose.

I'm guessing that folk on here are more likely to see a forest walk as an opportunity to observe and explore, rather than just burn off a few calories. But not everyone thinks the way we do.

When I was young I always ended up being tail-end-charlie and at one point got very demoralised by it. Then I realised that I was seeing loads of stuff everyone else was missing, and so for years now I've been tail-end-charlie out of choice not happenstance.

G

[Bogman10]

And thats the reason why I don't go to meets and campsites!

There are a couple of provincal parks, and national parks, that are very stricked. Also very touristy. ( ok, but I like it Wild! )
But , I can't get my wife to Pooh In the woods!
So I guess the odd Fly fishing trip, or Hunting ( when in season ) on my own or with friends, or just hide on the lake with the fishing boat.
Will be my fate for now.

Still better then work!

[andy_e]

But , I can't get my wife to Pooh In the woods!

LOL! At the risk of ruining your marriage, can I suggest "seasoning" her food with Senna (it's an ingredient in some Thai food - honest!), necessity being a great breaker of inhibition

[big_swede]

I've never been disturbed at BCUK meets by music (mechanical or live) and it's certainly not a good excuse for not turning out to a meet Red.

You'll have to do better than that..

mechanical music? You mean like a self-playing piano?

[Wayland]

mechanical music? You mean like a self-playing piano?

I was thinking of music from a mechanical box of electrickery.....

[gregorach]

I'll stick with my penny whistle thanks - much easier to get in the rucksack!

[British Red]

I've never been disturbed at BCUK meets by music (mechanical or live) and it's certainly not a good excuse for not turning out to a meet Red.

You'll have to do better than that..

Actually the reason for me is pretty much the wider interpretation of that emotion. In the woods I like peace, the crackle of the fire, the call of an owl or the bark of a deer. Music, drunken laughter, lots of people, even nosiy conversation are just not what its about for me. I guess I go there for peace and solitude - lots of company and laughter is why I go to a pub, not the wilds.

It wasn't a reference to a BCUK meet by the way - I've never been to one. Managed two hours mid-day at the Wilderness Gathering this year (then left). Large meets - indeed more than a friend or two are just not for me I think. I have tried it a couple of times but it didn't take. Nearly talked myself into it a couple more times but came to my senses

Always happy to meet up with some of the local guys in the pub and chew the fat though - thats what pubs are for! I'll keep the woods for a little solitude though I think. All power to those who enjoy meet ups in the woods though - it would be a dull world if we all liked the same things

Red

[In Wood]

BR, I have to agree with you on that. I much prefer my own company in the woods.

A camp with maybe 1 or 2 other friends but not a crowd. SHMBO says I am anti-social. I like to begger off on my own for a weekend in the woods or the Lakes (Lakes in winter) not as many people about.

Dont get me wrong I have been on SOME large camps and enjoyed it, but far better to hear only the sounds of the woods than a group of loud snoring, windbreaking, belching bushmen.

Any way, I have been told my snoring would wake the dead, so perhaps I am better on my own so I do not inflict my noise polution on anyone of a similar vein to myself.

[andy_e]

Any way, I have been told my snoring would wake the dead, so perhaps I am better on my own so I do not inflict my noise polution on anyone of a similar vein to myself.

LOL! I'm banned from sleeping near graveyards for that very same reason, the insulation on my hammock is for soundproofing not heat retention.

[spamel]

I disagree with a few points, especially the twanging of branches. If somebody in front holds the branch for you to pass, then OK, but if they are twanging them and not worrying about you, then you are simply too close to them. back off and leave some space. It's not that much fun to have a bergen in your face anyway!

As for power walkers in a group, I find it inconsiderate too. Unless something is decided from the start as to a fast, slow and intermediate group, then everybody should go at the slowest persons pace. Also, experienced people at map reading should be helping others and not just blazing a trail for everybody to follow. Pass the map around, point out where you are and where you want to go for the next 500 metres or kilometre and get the person to navigate to that point. Stick near them so that if they have any doubts you can give them a pointer.

I went up Wharncliff Crags with the Ratbag last weekend and a simple walk proved that my skills have faded a bit. I wasn't as quick with the map as I used to be. I suppose my last few years in the forces were in a vehicle, so map reading is a whole different skill on an armoured vehicle. You've all heard of the three norths; True, map and magnetic, well we had a fourth, tank north! This is where the compass points wherever it wants due to the mass of metal you are sat in!

[StJon]

I have an other one to add to the list. If you are there with a partner and things get all romantic and you get into the throws of passion, please do it QUIETLY. I remember years ago at a site with my daughter when a couple in a tent near us started to do it ; ) Nikki asking what that noise was ... made up some story about animals in the trees. Next morn I was really tempted to get Nikki to ask the young woman if she had, "heard the animals last night."
Also at a camp craft course at Woodlore had to put on my best Glaswiegen and ask a couple of guys sharing a bivie to keep it down, next morn got quiet pats on the back from other campers wishing they could have done the same.

[Robby]

I'm pretty laid back and don't really mind music, or most thing to be honest but if I have one big pet hate it would be Drunks. If you plan on drinking stay sober enough to walk in a straight line and know where your sleeping. Please don't get me wrong, I don't mind someone drinking, and I'm not averse to a drink or two myself, but I loathe drunks staggering about. I once had someone fall on top of me while I was sleeping. there's just no excuse for that....

[spamel]

I'm pretty laid back and don't really mind music, or most thing to be honest but if I have one big pet hate it would be Drunks. If you plan on drinking stay sober enough to walk in a straight line and know where your sleeping. Please don't get me wrong, I don't mind someone drinking, and I'm not averse to a drink or two myself, but I loathe drunks staggering about. I once had someone fall on top of me while I was sleeping. there's just no excuse for that....

Yeah, sorry about that!

[Robby]

Yeah, sorry about that!

I don't think it would have been you Spamel. It would be easy to tell by the foot print

[spamel]

Well, I'm sure I've probably done it one time or another, though god knows who it was! Aaah, those were the days! A few bottle so f white lightning and spend the rest of the night shouting at the porcelain telephone!

[malente]

I think this is a great thread and shoud be made a sticky!

I also agree with BR that the woods are for peace and solitude. I love going alone, with one friend or or at best, shared with max a handful of good mates.

Mike

[maddave]

No 28 !!

Coke all over the keyboard and computer desk...Cheers lads !!

[rivermom]

This thread is very worthwhile, and very entertaining to read. But it seems sad to me that such simple things need to be spelled out so clearly. We humans have forgotten the most important thing; the world out there is full of living critters, plants and animals and people. And Bushcraft is all about going out there to meet them.

[BOD]

well said rivermom

[Wayland]

I have just read this thread again looking for some info for one of my web pages.

Thought it was worth a bump for some of the newer faces.

[BorisTheBlade]

Being a musician myself I can safely say that I agree that I HATE it when people play music live or otherwise into the wee hours unless you are the only people there and the reason you are there is for a special occasion... Other than that, keep it down! I liked how comprehensive the advice was however it would seem that (being fairly new to camping) many of you would have compiled this etiquette through years of experience and though it is mostly common sense it also seems a little British nanny state in some areas. I am a person who tries to enjoy myself in all areas of life without impacting on others around me. If I do something, I will make sure that others do not suffer as a result of my actions whether it be noise at night or otherwise. I do however wear ear plugs when camping as there will be inherently some noises in the night. I wouldn't hold it against someone too greatly and in fact feel that camping in the UK is so sterile that I am only keen on the idea of camping if it is not on a campsite.

For example, some people at campsites have a major problem with you getting up to go for a pee at night, "how dare you wake us up" and yet the next morning at the crack of dawn you are awoken by their obnoxious children who spend their day in close quarters to the tents rather than being taken to enjoy the countryside by their parents. I frequently would come back to find these children using the guy ropes on my new, expensive (large) tent as a swing! In my opinion this is not camping and is in fact a cheap, cold, damp version of a hotel. I am a teacher in profession so am fine with children, just don't like the hypocrisy of camping sometimes. Maybe there could be a few more items on that list in regards to children:

- Children should play well away from the camping area
- Children should make a racket well away from the tents first thing in the morning

And such, whether it be in a campsite or in the bush.

Rant over

[Tadpole]

Can I add a simple caveat or rather a qualification that I feel needs to be attached to most of the aforementioned list.
In all thing moderation and above all, it's up to you to exercise tolerance.
There should be a tad more understanding and forgiveness for initial transgressions of your unspoken unwritten rules. Just because they are your unwritten un poken rules does not mean that everyone who is about, knows, understands or believes in them.
To some 4 am is a reasonable time to go to bed, to others it is 9pm, for others “dawn’s a wasting if breakfast you’re not tasting” for yet more ‘dawn’ is mostly a ‘mythical time’ suffered through the haze of something strong and yeasty.
Cut all of your fellow humans some slack, forgive them, as you would like forgiveness for yourself, lf like most of us , you accidently tread on toes unwittingly.

[Wayland]

I think Item 25, which came from Mors Kochanski if I recall covers that one quite well.

[Tadpole]

I think Item 25, which came from Mors Kochanski if I recall covers that one quite well.

You are right, but I think it is worth saying again.

[drewdunnrespect]

i agree with all of this and but inrgards music i do like it and am quite happy to let other enjoy it but i agree there is a time and a place

[Fletching]

Hi all,

I am a newbie on this forum (quite an old ex-SA forces dog, mind) and I'd just like to add my tuppence worth on camp etiquette...

The reason most of us head out into the open is to experience nature close-up. Don't forget that our behaviour will also impact on the natural surroundings (as pointed out) but, especially, wildlife.

It's OK to talk about respecting other campers' rights to quiet and space etc., but loud noises may interrupt natural behaviour such as mating rituals, predation and so on.

It's for reasons like this that I'm usually solo outdoors. I can get a better idea of what's going on around me if I'm quiet. There's usually a whole lot of exciting stuff going on if you 'blend-in' to the surroundings and don't impose your human will and presence.

Try a little challenge the next time you go out in a small group to be very quiet. you'll be surprised at all the things that you notice that you would have missed if you'd carried on as normal, chatting away and giving a running commentary of the obvious. Don't forget, man gave-up living wild long ago, so we should feel privileged to be guests in the natural environment.

As for your normal campsites, you can expect irresponsible behaviour from inexperienced campers.

Steve

[DMBackpacker]

" . . . When passing an open or exposed cutting tool to another person, hold it by the back of the blade with the cutting edge away from your hand. Place the handle of the tool in the other person’s hand. Make sure they have a firm hold before you release your grip. . . "

My Scoutmaster taught us that the person passing the tool was not to let go of it until the person receiving the tool said "Thank you", which meant "I have a good grip and control of the tool."

And woe betide the careless Scout who failed to observe this rule!

[tobes01]

It's OK to talk about respecting other campers' rights to quiet and space etc., but loud noises may interrupt natural behaviour such as mating rituals, predation and so on.

Don't worry, mating rituals and predation are largely confined to the Naughty Corner.