walkways

[Dingo]

there is an initiative to create walkways and cycle ways throughout the country, with the help of 50 million from the lottery fund, there is four different projects competing for the money, we want the sustrans bid to win.

follow the link and vote for sustrans, its a bit of form filling and replying after you receive an email, but its got to be worth it if we all get better access to the country side and the outdoors in general, take a look, what have you to lose maybe a few footpaths!

http://www.sustrans.org.uk/

thanks for taking the time.

Adam.

[PeterC]

Why on earth would anyone encourage more cyclists in the countryside?

[Dingo]

visit the site and check out what they want to do, better to have them on cycleways than off road so to speak, and lets not forget the countryside is for everyone, not just an elite few who think they own it all, as long as its respected by all who use it, there shouldnt be a problem, you only have to search this forum to see bad use of the countryside by so called bushcrafters.

a lot of the cycleways and footpaths are going to be around already established country parks, take the time to look and learn before judging, there is to much of the its got to be olive green elitists on here already, like i said before the countryside is for everyone not just the elite few.

sorry for ranting, but this is a good cause for everyone, the other projects are the Eden project, Sherwood forest visitor center, and the Black country park, Sustrans is throughout the country and is for the good of the people everywhere.

take a look, like i say, what have you to lose apart from a footpath!

obviously purist olive greeners like PeterC has already voted with his ignorance.

[Mirius]

There are a number of bushcrafters who cycle. Personally I'd rather see more cyclists than landrover drivers, and yes, I have done both and enjoyed both in my time.

[Dingo]

thankyou Mirius, i appreciate the support.

[irishlostboy]

cyclist here too (although not off-road) i love it and cant see any harm done by cyclists, apart from messing up the paintwork of peoples cars when they run them over. (cars running cyclists over....not the other way around. lol) although i am sure too many of any type of activity in an area is likely to cause trouble, cycling included.
nice one, putting this up dingo.

[John Fenna]

I wrote a book "Discovering Pembrokeshire by Bicycle" to enthuse people into the countryside on 2 wheels.
My sales figures tell me it was a waste of time.
Can I have some of the dosh on offer or is this to be wasted on "official" projects and not get stuck to my hands?

[h2o]

brian blessed wants to plant trees ,and ray mears wants the money to go to the eden project.personally i think the cyclists paths would be the most used as its a country wide project unlike the eden thing aimed at the southerners and someone planting a few trees ,i cant remember what the other causes where but its on tv soon i think .doubt ill watch it sounds like load o rubbish to me the money has probably been earmarked already they just want a phone in vote to take more money off the great british public.BEST TO SAVE YOUR MONEY!!! telephone votes via the tv are a rip off even blue peter has been ripping the kids off .if u guys wanna do something constructive buy a tree and plant it!! as for not wanting more cyclist in the countryside all the crap i find is from bushcraft wannabees who leave cans and rubbish all over and fishermen, ive never seen a cyclist throw a mcdonalds off his bike but i have seen 4x4s do it plenty,and they spew out c02 .

[Tengu]

Theres so many footpaths about these days, no one seem to use them.

I dont know much about cycleways.

I dont think everyone should have access to the countryside, it would be too crowded; the countrside is a place to livce and work in, its `not` a playground for those who insist on living in Megatokyo.

[DoctorSpoon]

I feel that any initiative that encourages people to use their bikes instead of their cars is a good thing and anything that encourages people to put their bikes in their cars and drive them into the countryside to ride them is a bad thing.

The majority of mountain bikers are ignorant idiots who shout at you and make you scuttle for the ditch when you're walking on a footpath but won't get to the edge of the road so you can come past in your car. That opinion comes from 10 years of living up a narrow lane / on a footpath with a regular mountain bike track past my front door!

It is a difficult issue though. I live in the heart of an area that derives a large portion of its wealth from tourists who are on the brink of wrecking what they have come to see.

[Dingo]

John, if i had anything to do with dishing out the doh, i would make sure you got a little bit!

as for the other projects, i think they are either for just their own area or for the tourist, the fact is at least one of them is going to get this money, so why not vote and get it shared out by the project that will benefit us all, instead of the few who are either visiting the other area's or are lucky enough to live near by.

Adam.

[dave k]

I love cycling, and I never run red lights, cycle on footpaths etc.. I give way to people, even when their dog is uncontrollable and tries to bite my tires off while I hold open the gate for them..

Then again I don't have a problem with people taking their bikes out into the countryside to enjoy it. I used to live up a small track in the middle of nowhere. I enjoyed the quiet, and I didn't mind people cycling, horseriding or foxhunting down the path outside my house.

I think the countryside is for everyone. Saying it doesn't belong to people who don't live there is a bit NIMBY IMHO. No one ever wants to share anything nowdays and this comes across every day, I am very surprised that a lot of people here share those feelings..

I thought it was about getting outside into the wilderness by any means and just enjoying it. I missed the bit where I wasn't welcome because I didn't live there..

[Jim_aramis]

Sustrans is not just a countryside project. They also try and link up towpaths, cycle lanes and bridleways in towns and cities to make cycling to work etc. much safer and easier.

The particular project for my local area is for a foot/cyclebridge over the river Goyt that would make it easier to access the middlewood way disused railway track with seperate bridleway and path for walkers

[Eric_Methven]

Right, I've signed up and voted. Thanks for posting this Dingo. Cycleways are the way to go for me. I've lived in Germany and Holland with their dedicated cycle paths and felt perfectly safe doing so. Not so here. Any opportunity to develop safer cycling has to be a good thing for both me and my grandkids. Also, if the price of fuel keeps rising I think we'll see lots more people cycling to work and for short journeys generally.

Eric

[Jodie]

I've also voted for Sustrans - we were encouraged to do so by work.
You can vote online - doesn't cost a penny:
http://www.thepeoples50million.org.uk/vote

I did watch the profile of the Eden Project's Edge thingy - I thought Tim Smit was very
interesting. He's definitely a man after my own heart "“People need to be educated,
informed, inspired and above all excited by what is happening to plants and conservation.
The trouble is so many people in the field are inarticulate; they can’t communicate. Take
scientists. They may be brilliant at what they do, but they just can’t put it across to
people. Science really should be ‘sex on a stick’. But if you go to most scientific
conferences, you really feel you could be on an Esperanto course”.
Note: many scientists can talk perfectly well to non-scientists. When at a conference
they are talking amongst themselves and language use reflects that - otherwise they'd
be there all day. But he's got a point

Here's audio of a talk he gave at the Royal Society:
http://royalsociety.org/page.asp?id=3099

The venture (People's 50 million) has had quite a lot of word-of-mouth publicity and it's
even possible to 'post' details of a project to one's Facebook profile!

Ever since I moved to Camberwell 15 years ago (and moved out five years ago) I've
yearned for a better walkway around the miserable and truly hideous Elephant & Castle
shopping centre / hub.

There are two roundabouts and a concrete underpass of cavernous proportions, with
about 15 exits.

After 8 years living there I did eventually find the magic route of getting across it without
going underground (not a nice place to be) but for most of my journeys through it I'd
find myself "meerkat-ing" at one exit realising that the one I wanted to was a little bit
further on and having to go back in to the tunnelling and try again. Misery.

Things might be looking up though: http://www.elephantandcastle.org.uk/
(apparently the shopping centre is scheduled for demolition in 2010).

Mind you, I also have to admit I have no sense of direction - but that doesn't take away
the fact that I would happily have walked from Trafalgar Square to Camberwell a lot more
often if I hadn't just lost enthusiasm for the walk by having my path made so difficult.

There are similar pedestrian horrors getting on to Greenwich peninsula from Blackheath.

I'm very lucky now where I am that I have easy access to green spaces and small
woodlands on foot.

If Sustrans can make it easier to get around places on foot for anyone then I'm keen for
them to get the money. Also I believe their remit covers the whole of the UK and not
just England which the others do (I may be wrong of course).

John F. - might the local council be interested in republishing your book as part of their
'local walks and outdoors sorts of things' guides which lots of places seem to do. We
have the Green Chain walk where I live and the library is full of leaflets and pamphlets.
Admittedly not 'books' though...
Or how about doing a video diary on Countryfile and flogging a few that way

[Dingo]

Awesome people, keep it going.

[British Red]

Sorry, another "anti" here. Sad to post it (particularly since Eric and John are two of the people I respect most on this forum). The cyclists I encounter in the country are, in the majority, the rudest and least caring of all access rights users. They tear past walkers, dog walkers and horse riders splattering them with mud, tearing up the ground and use permissives and footpaths where they have no right to be. On roads they go straight through red lights and "undertake" on narrow lanes where there is only one lane rather than queueing with other road users. I have offered first aid on three RTAs now - where a cyclist was involved (on each occasion the cyclists fault - as verified by an independent witness).

Frankly I am anti cyclist until cyclists learn to respect other users of the countryside and would oppose any initiative to extend footpath use to cyclists - indded I would seek to get them to be confined to roads at present. Horse riders, dog walkers, shooters, walkers and even hawkers on this farm respect one another. Cyclists (who have no right of access at all given all access is permissive) cause more problems than all the others combined and appear to care not one jot for other access users. I appreciate this may be localised and entirely non representative, however all access rights to cyclists are about to be withdrawn around here as a result of the total disregard for other users of the paths and access rights. This includes a number of cyclists who have sworn at the person walking and running in the middle of the footpath. This person (not me) is the landowner who offered access rights in the first place. I have agreed with his "no cyclists" policy - why should he be abused for allowing them to cycle on his land?

Sorry, but cyclists need to learn that, as much as they want respect, they need to learn to respect others. If that means dismount and wheel your bike past a nervous horse - so be it. Pedal slowly past walkers so as not to spray them with mud and give way to farm vehicles on farms!

Red

[Tengu]

Yes, AND GET A HI VIZ JACKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jodie]

I think the Sustrans programme is for walkers too Red... I nearly got mown down
in central London by a cyclist upon whom I heaped many evil thoughts, but my lovely
ex-flatmate cycles all over the place and he's very tame

[British Red]

And hence my thoughts Jodie " as ye sow, shall ye reap". The pillock in stupid dayglo lycra who cursed the walker he nearly mowed down (who just happened to own several square miles of Hampshire) will, I hope, recognise that one, solitary, act of rude, ill considered, ill temper cost cylclists access to about a third of the Meon Valley for at least a decade.

Those who live round here, please note, whoever it is riding in red, yellow and gren skin tight lycra with an all black helmet on some form of mountain bike who has cut up me and the landowner on what are legally, footpaths has caused all rights for cyclists to be revoked on some of the most beautiful parts of the South Downs.

Again - be careful - the guy who you abuse may own the land you are riding on and make it (as it should be) a footpath.

Red

[jojo]

Anything that might move cars off the roads gets my vote. I used to be more of a cyclist but too many close shaves with unthinking and even downright vindictive dangerous car and lorry drivers has rather put me off.
There are plenty of rude and unthinking cyclists too, unfortunately, who don't respect other users but remembering a lorry driver that overtook me and then nearly crushed me between his back wheels and a steel fence at a traffic light still makes me shudder.

[Jodie]

I suppose it is a bit like rock, paper, scissors with pedestrians, cyclists and motorists
all loathing each other...

In an ideal world all moving objects (people on foot, on bikes or in cars) would have
their own areas based on the speeds that they can go at (not sure where to put
skaters!) but I can't expect the land to support that many roads and lanes hehe.

I hate to see fellow pedestrians dash across the road at a 'red man' sign - it must
be a bit disconcerting for the people driving their cars.

[Mirius]

There will always be idiots. Cyclists making life worse for other cyclists by thoughtless and reckless actions. Bushcrafters getting access to woods and campsites blocked by their thoughtless and reckless actions. The same could be said of all forms of activities - swimming pools come to mind for example.

The majority who quietly enjoy their activities and leave so little trace that their presence isn't even noticed of course, don't get noticed, which is rather the point. But of course we are judged by the actions of the noticeable minority, not the sensible majority

[British Red]

Your probably right Mirius - sadly with "offroad" cyclists, I can honestly say the majority I have encountered around here have been of the rude and inconsiderate mould (not all I agree but more than half). Personally I would back a move to go to proper cycleways to keep bikes off the roads and footpaths to the benefit of all

Red

[irishlostboy]

...The majority of mountain bikers are ignorant idiots who shout at you and make you scuttle for the ditch when you're walking on a footpath.....

this is a side of cycling i was unaware of, and it is totally out of order. i am a generally well behaved cyclist. personally i think there should be a bike license, the same as a car license, to provide education to cyclists. my cyclist-hate is the urban cyclists who like wearing black spandex while whizzing around on their racers, with no lights, no helmet and no vizi-vest, and treat the rules of the road as something which applies to other people. i

[John Fenna]

I have to agree with Britih Red - there are an awful lot of cyclists who are no better than scum and can spoil it for all the decent cyclists out there.
However, if you read recent threads it would seem that there are an awful lot of fishermen/walkers/BUSHCRAFTERS doing the same!
I think the problem is endemic and it is down to the malaise gripping Britain these days - the "I have my rights" culture!
I think that anyone abusing these "rights" without even concidering the responsibilities that go with rights should have these "rights" revoked and suffer as total outcasts from society. Preferably a small off shore island should be found, one that has been totally degraded by mans thoughtless exploitation and is of no interest to a reasonable person, and these scum dropped on it equipped with a basic survival kit, a basic tent, stale rat packs, instant coffee and a full set of "rights" to bl**dy well get on with it
Once they have seen the error of their ways they would be permitted to try and swim back to rejoin decent humans again.
On second thoughts it would have to be a big island... or group of islands....is Bikini Atoll still being used for atom bomb tests?
I think that I will go with the planting of trees bit - that may give Bushcrafters of the future another set of woods to play in....

[dave k]

I agree there should be more cyclist training. There used to be training in school's where the plod came in and taught you how to cycle properly.

I've seen bad (afraid it's not the miniority) cycling every day as I used to cycle to work. The amount of people who run red lights is astounding - it's so dangerous and people keep doing it.. I've also been on the receiving end of abuse however - from mums in people carriers bumbling their way to work not realizing that they were trying to occupy the same space/time as me on a small bike "I didn't see you so it's not my fault"!.. to people trying to beat me up with handbags as I cycled along a cycle path (amazing that one - getting abuse at random for obeying the law!).

I was wondering if there are many more activities that I can actually do that people hate. I cycle, have a 4X4, enjoy shooting, eating what I shoot. I got abuse the other day just driving along the road - some bloke said I `should take my car where it belongs not on my road`.. considering I was driving to the beach in portland along country roads..

It doesn't take much effort to show a bit of courteous behavour what every you're doing. And please, if you're walking a dog and a cyclist has stopped to let you past, don't let the dog ravage the guy standing still on the bike please - it's happened to me twice. Not one of the people said sorry, one even laughed as I held the gate open for him.

The only thing I've been really surprised at is some people's attitude here that we should not be allowed access to the countryside. I thought of all places where people would want to share the outdoors people here would show some interest in getting everyone outside..

[Tadpole]

This is turning out to be a them and us hate fest, I was a cyclist until a car drove over me. I had not jumped any lights or rode over the pavement. I was wearing my high visibility jacket and three ‘cat eye’ halogen lights on the front and two flashing lights on the back. In my day-glow tights and bright yellow rucksack cover, I would be impossible to miss, if you were bothering to look for something other than a lorry or bus. The woman who drove over me claimed that she “didn’t see me” until she was parked on top of me. Until that point, I did something like 80 miles a week on my bike, and have lost count of the number of times that the car drivers have cut me up, knocked into me or generally treated me (as a cyclist) as unworthy of sharing the roads.
Some if not most car drivers reap what they sow, they cause the hatred on the roads by thinking themselves more worthy, they make it a dog eat dog fight to the lights, by driving in cycle lanes, by pushing cyclist on to the pavement, by blocking cycle spaces at the lights, by being idiots who think that the phrase “tear down the dotted line” on their licence gives them the right to force anything smaller than themselves off the road. Buses pick on vans, vans pick on 4x4, who in turn pick on everyone who is not a 4x4, big cars pick on little cars and they all pick on cyclists.

The only way I can see this changing is if everyone who wants to drive a car has to spend two years as a motorcyclist or a year on a bicycle.
If after the relevant number of years, you are still alive, you get to drive a car.
The most considerate drivers on the road today are the ones who either cycle or have ridden a two-wheeled vehicle at some time.

As for the walkers v cyclists, again I have to politely disagree, I still cycle off track, and walkers are almost as arrogant as car users, they hog the paths and clog up the tracks, walking in large groups blocking the whole of the path/track. They stick out their stick forcing cyclists in to ditches, or they deliberately spread out, making it impossible to pass. If as most of my friends do, you ring your bell merely to warn others of you approach, you get a mouthful of foul abuse or a sudden change of direction forcing you off your track in into the hedge. I’ve had little old lady ramblers trying to stick me (walking stick through the front wheel) and swearing at me as I avoid them.

[robin wood]

Gosh what an emotive subject. I would like to vote seperate ways I am with Red when it comes to off road mountain biking and with Tadpole and Eric on road cycling.

Bring on European style urban and rural tarmac cycleways to encourage people to cycle short distances to work and let our kids safely cycle to school.

Mountain biking in this area has become a rich kids playtime thing this is not a NIMBY attitude I am all for walkers past the door and very happy with bikes that slow to say twice walking pace as they pass walkers but the the track past my workshop is at the bottom of the MTB equivalent of the Cresta run. They come yelping and squeeling with delight and if I don't keep the gate shut accross the track pass through the farmyard well in excess of 30mph on gravel downhill. When my kids were toddling about I was genuinly woried for their safety. Over 10 years in my workshop I watch folk go by and chat with plenty, to begin with I thought it must be a thoughtless minority but as Red says it is not, we are certainly talking about more than 50% that are there primarily for the speed kicks and adreneline rush and that simply does not work when sharing a path with pedestrians.

Its a difficult one though I am into people getting out and would rather they were doing this than some of the more harmfull damaging activities they could get their kicks on.

[irishlostboy]

Preferably a small off shore island should be found, one that has been totally degraded by mans thoughtless exploitation and is of no interest to a reasonable person,

well, funny you should mention it, but there is this place just west of england..... but i think the polish beat you to it this time. LMAO