Landrover or Landcruiser?

[swagman]

Ok without stiring up a kettle of fish why would people chose a landrover over a landcruiser?
Landrovers have a bad rep for build quality they are unreliable and last i hered had
bad gear boxes.

So as an experdition veicle why do so many people go for landrover over landcruiser.?

[Nat]

Hi Lux, sorry but the Hi Lux is absolutely top. And not just because Mr Clarkson and co ragged one silly then blew it up

Land cruisers are good, but Landys are indestructible, especially the 110

So with that in mind, a hybrid of a Hi Lux and 110 Defender

[firebreather]

The answer to that is several fold. Basically it is reputation, land rovers, work if maintained. Its normally a case of point and drive and it will take it. Also in days of old LR spares used to be easliy availiable around the globe more so than other vehicles. Nowadays that is dependant on where in the world you are, toyota parts are more availiable in some parts of the world and considerably cheaper.
Having driven both i would opt for a landy everytime but that is just personal preference. As I feel that they are better suited to a variety of terrains especially mud , land cruisers are better in sand so its horses for courses as my gran used to say. Also to be added into the mix is driver competence and confidence in his/her vehicle and thats where LR's win hands down as they just feel bomb proof where as the land cruiser feels all nice.
Before the additition of new fangled electrical bits LR's was mostly mechanical so if it broke it could be fixed/ bodged by a competent mechanic anywhere in the world. I await to see if travellers across the globe have to start taking laptops with engine management systems to fix their ails.
So the old iconic image of transglobe travellers in landys waking to the sunrise on the plains may be changing.
S.orry there is not more specifics just my ramblings.
Greg

[Martyn]

So as an experdition veicle why do so many people go for landrover over landcruiser.?

Because if they took landcruisers, they'd be worried about scratching the paint.

[EdS]

LR are easy to fix (upto TD5) and parts are chap. LC are reliable but require a full workshop and part are cheap - unless its an old FJ40 then it easy to fix but parts are rare.

In part it depends on where in the world you are, LC hit Afric big style in the 1970s while LR sat on its backside.However, parts of Africa Nissan Patrols out number LR and LC. Local dealer network has a lot to do with it.

If you are going to use the car in remote hostile locations a LR (upto 300TDi) will be easier to fix or bodge than a LC with out workshop/dealer access.In these environments any car will eventually break.

i'm selling my 90 and Disco to by an newer Disco but when I ca nafford another play car its a toss up between a Seris LR or a LC FJ40 (if I can find a decent one in the UK - might have to have a holiday to Portugal)

[Tourist]

I am considering an expedition vehicle for 2010 and I would not use a Land Cruiser or anything else with electronics. There are not too many service centres in the North African Sahara so opting for simplicity I shall probably buy a Bedford MK.

[Aaron]

As a workhorse I have generally found landrovers to be over-rated - go to an agricultural show or cattle auction and you will see that most farmers these days turn up in Japanese/Korean make 4x4's such as Daihatsu's, Toyota's and Subarus, as they are generally cheaper to buy and run. I have found that Toyota 4x4's such as the Land Cruiser and Hilux are also more reliable than a second hand L/R, although this reliability declines (as with any vehicle) as they get older. If you are looking for a second hand Land Cruiser (cant remember weather you are buying or not) check for serious corrosion on the chasis underneath, as they were designed for the Australian market and rust in the British climate, and make sure that the 4x4 drive engages and disengages easily (you will be surprise at the amount of them that have never been taken off road ). Dont let me put you off though as they are cracking motors and good workhorses, and IMO much better value for money than something from Solihull. Cheers Aaron

[BOD]

Hi Lux, but the Hi Lux is absolutely top. And not just because Mr Clarkson and co ragged one silly then blew it up

Land cruisers are good, but Landys are indestructible, especially the 110

So with that in mind, a hybrid of a Hi Lux and 110 Defender

In the Cameron Highlands in the main mountain range of Malaysia, LRs especially older models are very common. These are very heavily used and abused. True workhorses.

The men driving them have no patriotic "Buy British" feelings or otherwise to cloud judgement. They think the world of the LR chassis and body.

However, most of the LRs have Japanese engines which they install and prefer over the LR ones once those have died.

[Karl5]

...most farmers these days turn up in Japanese/Korean make 4x4's such as Daihatsu's, Toyota's and Subarus, as they are generally cheaper to buy and run...

Do you think that's the main reason why farmers today don't buy LR or LC?
Rather than driving aspects or sturdyness or longeivity or ability to find spare parts or such, I mean.

/ Karl

[Chopper]

LR everytime.
I had an Isuzu Trooper petrol, the headgasket blew and it ciost me £2500 to repair, that with me doing the work.
I could put a recon engine in my 110 Turbo Deisel for £700.
Nuf said!!

[TobyH]

If you're in Oz, or anywere in the oceanic area, definately a toyota (of any kind) they are one of the most reliable vehicles on the planet! Ask any Oz outbacker what car he/she'd prefer and it will be a Toyota. Plus LR's a re a rarity compared to Toyota's.

If you're in africa then it would have to be a Landy, mainly because they are far more common and parts are more readily available. Which is just as well as they are pants for reliability. I've worked in warranty with LR as a customer so have some experience!!

For expedition's I personally would use a Landcruiser. They are incredibly reliable, loads of space, and far more comfy on long journey's than a Landy. I would go for a slightly older model though, and take some essential spares, just in case you hit an elephant or something!!

[British Red]

I have had both side by side on the drive.

Landrovers (pre-TD types) are more capable off road (but you have have to be D*** good to need it). They are also mechanical as opposed to electronic so simpler to fix with rudimatary tools. They also have all sorts of reliability and build quality issues.

Toyotas are the best build quality of any off road vehicle bar none. They are much less likely to break down on you and much more civilised on road (and safer on road as well since Landy brakes are rubbish). They are more costly to fix and less user serviceable than a Landy.

For an offroader you want to take on road and for when it matters if it breaks down several times a year - get a Landcruiser.

For a vehicle to be self maintained with minimal equipment in a hostile environment - LandRover.

I have friends who have Landys on which they have personally touched every nut bolt and linkage. My days of wanting to do that are over.

When I took my BORDA qualifications, my LC was parked next to BBs 110 and the examiners Shogun. I asked "which is best?". The examiner said - "any one of those cars can do things you wouldn't attempt - and neither would I - spend the money on training and practice offroad not on fancy lift kits and lamps".

Wise words

Red

[firebreather]

- spend the money on training and practice offroad not on fancy lift kits and lamps".

Wise words

Red

Very true but lift kits and lamps are the off roaders equivalent of knives and axes.......oooohhhhh sharp and pointy....oooooohhhh high and bright

I have a bog standard suzuki vit that can scare the wits out of me with its capabilities, so i dread to think what a landy could do to me if i pushed it to the edge

[EdS]

The examiner said - "any one of those cars can do things you wouldn't attempt - and neither would I - spend the money on training and practice offroad not on fancy lift kits and lamps".

Red

Depends on what you are doing off road - i've driven vehicles places where the is not a cat in hells chance of a standard vehicle getting through. i've had a few iffy moments in my mates unimog. But that was where I was "off roading" rather than just green laning.

decent lamps are required for a LR - otherwise you are stuck with candles.

As fot lifts etc depends what you are doing off road. i've not lifted mine but with heavy duty springs and good shocks it equal to a 1" lift. As it is a LR I can fit 235/85R16 tyre without a lift. That way I get ground clearance I required. With a LC or other make (inc Disco) I would require a lift to fit big tyres to get ground clearance.

[JonnyP]

Lol....I love reading threads like this...

[Martyn]

I have had both side by side on the drive.

Landrovers (pre-TD types) are more capable off road...

Perhaps you should have a look at what the Devon 4x4 lads are choosing for challenge trucks...

http://www.devon4x4.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2403

It's worth a read Red. These lads are building some pretty serious offroad trucks.

[EdS]

TD5 are good, plenty of power but not some easy to fix in the bush or at home (several tour companies refuse to take TD5). They are also harder to waterproof due the the electronics.

Most of the challege truck that run TD5 has experienced mechanics with workshops & computer behind them.

Plus you can pick a TD5 vehicle or engine out of a rear end write off for less than a good 300TDi. TD5 Discoverys (150k plus - bit like like the average TDi now) have been known to go for less less than £1000 around here.

[British Red]

Perhaps you should have a look at what the Devon 4x4 lads are choosing for challenge trucks...

http://www.devon4x4.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2403

It's worth a read Red. These lads are building some pretty serious offroad trucks.

Don't deny they can be used that way Martyn - in the context of "expedition vehicle" though, I personally think they combine the worst parts of a Toyota (lack of simplicity) with the worst parts of Landrover (godawful build quality). I've had both as you know - they both have their advantages and faults.

The TD5 is certainly capable offroad. My theory goes like this

For extended use I either want it simple to fix or ultra reliable.

Our 200Tdi was hugely capable offroad but did need regular attention. My LC is not quite as good offroad (although still hugely capable) but, in the time I've owned it, has suffered two faults - two worn out bulbs and rust to the rear bumper light units where I'd left mud caked on for months. Other than that in 6 years and 70,000 miles - nada.

What I should have said is for an expedition vehicle, pre TD LRs will break down but are easy to fix. An LC is hugely reliable but may need a trained mechanic to fix. Personally I would pick one of those for extended use away from garages (based on the mechanical ability of the person) over a more modern LR which may well need a mechanic with a laptop. In the UK where you can get at a mechanic easily - whatever floats your boat.

Red

[Martyn]

TD5 are good, plenty of power but not some easy to fix in the bush or at home (several tour companies refuse to take TD5). They are also harder to waterproof due the the electronics.

Most of the challege truck that run TD5 has experienced mechanics with workshops & computer behind them.

Plus you can pick a TD5 vehicle or engine out of a rear end write off for less than a good 300TDi. TD5 Discoverys (150k plus - bit like like the average TDi now) have been known to go for less less than £1000 around here.

I think all the serious challenge trucks have workshops and good mechanics behind them, whatever engine they are running. The ECU doesnt present any particularly difficult problems - it's just another bit of the engine. Protecting it is certainly less hassle than waterproofing a V8. Should the ECU die completely, swapping it is a doddle. Would you rather change an ECU or a broken half shaft?

Simon, the fella who owns Devon 4x4, took first place in the 2007 outback challenge in Morocco a few weeks back and he swears by em (although that particular truck was running a V8). Granted he has the support of his garage, but the point is, TD5's certainly are good offroad - in fact they are first choice for many.

[Martyn]

Don't deny they can be used that way Martyn - in the context of "expedition vehicle" though, I personally think they combine the worst parts of a Toyota (lack of simplicity) with the worst parts of Landrover (godawful build quality). I've had both as you know - they both have their advantages and faults.

The TD5 is certainly capable offroad. My theory goes like this

For extended use I either want it simple to fix or ultra reliable.

Our 200Tdi was hugely capable offroad but did need regular attention. My LC is not quite as good offroad (although still hugely capable) but, in the time I've owned it, has suffered two faults - two worn out bulbs and rust to the rear bumper light units where I'd left mud caked on for months. Other than that in 6 years and 70,000 miles - nada.

What I should have said is for an expedition vehicle, pre TD LRs will break down but are easy to fix. An LC is hugely reliable but may need a trained mechanic to fix. Personally I would pick one of those for extended use away from garages (based on the mechanical ability of the person) over a more modern LR which may well need a mechanic with a laptop. In the UK where you can get at a mechanic easily - whatever floats your boat.

Red

The British army found the TD5's to be extremely reliable, main reason they dont use em is because they are not guaranteed to function after an EMP.

Anything can break down, fuel pump or whatever. An ECU can be replaced in a cintch - it's a simple job done in a few seconds. The whole ECU reliability thing is grossly overstated. I remember when ECU's first started to appear in fuel injected cars generally and everyone was paranoid about the electronics going wrong. Decades on, those fears were completely unfounded and now you struggle to find a car that hasn't got one. The only thing to really worry about is water ingress. Take some simple measures to protect against that and job done. The rest of the engine is just a deisel engine. To be honest, on an exped I'd be more worried about my timing belt breaking.

[swagman]

Perhaps you should have a look at what the Devon 4x4 lads are choosing for challenge trucks...

http://www.devon4x4.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2403

It's worth a read Red. These lads are building some pretty serious offroad trucks.

It must be cos Devon is such an extreme place.

[Martyn]

It must be cos Devon is such an extreme place.

Yah, just like Solihull.

[Martyn]

Check this out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFkxuG9Blxs

Outback Challenge - Morocco 2007

Last year it was won by a US team in a LandCruiser, this year it was won by Simon from Devon 4x4 in a Land Rover. Second place was taken by a Land Rover as well.

Here's the winning truck...

[rik_uk3]

A mate of mine works at Landrover, the company bring in 4x4's from other company's and basicly, drive them unitl they break, LR are a bit pissed with the Toyoto's,,,,,,, they don't break

[British Red]

Landrover toolkit - shovel and a brrom to collect the parts that fell off

Its a fair point - as is Martyns. If you want to "extreme off road" with a team of mechanics and make a car go places no car wants to go - do it with a Land Rover. I guess its the 4x4 equivalent of F1.

For solid day to day use though where the object of the exercise is not to offroad for its own sake but to arrive at a destination that happens to be offroad - get a 'Yota.

The gamekeeper here who does more really hard offroad driving than most (20,000 miles a year offroad plus normal day to day driving) wouldn't swap his Jap truck - he truly hates LRs now - he laughed at ours and described them as "noisy, cold and bleedin unreliable". All true I have to say - still like em though.

The one that really made me laugh was the LR mechanic we used when we really did nasty things to "lumpy". He drove an Amazon

Red

[seamonkey]

The idea of a landie does appeal and i came very close to buying an old long wheel base, but in reality it has to be Toyota every time, hilux or land cruiser the old tojo style landcruisers are just as cool as a defender i reckon.
In NZ / Aus i reckon hiluxes outnumber landies 100 to 1

[hanzo]

I am considering getting a Toyota FJ Cruiser. All my mechanic friends rave about Toyota's reliability. They are abundant here but just don't seem to go into the shop very often.

[swyn]

I purchased a new Land Rover 110 Hi cap TD5 four years ago and I am sorry to say that next time I will be looking at Land Cruisers. I still have other older model LR's and the difference is considerable.

I think that LR have lost the plot with quality control and direction and although still good vehicles in principal their new design with all it's bells and whistles leaves me very puzzled. No, I don't want leather seats, aircon or a six speaker sound system, I want simplicity and longevity along with reliability.

Just to say with 32000 miles on the clock ALL the brake calipers need renewing. It's not like I have driven it into the sea. The finish just is not there. So they have rusted solid!

I can't comment on Discoverys or Range Rovers as I have no need for one of those. I just wish for a simple useful vehicle.

Swyn.

[swagman]

I think landrovers are overated yes they may win organised cross country races
with mecanics in toe but were your life depends on you veicle like here in oz you
just have to ask yourself why dose every one go for toyota?.
And its not because LR parts are more expensive at one time all you could buy here were Landrovers but the aussies have chosen reliability over somthing running on an
old reputation.

[EdS]

most of the farmers up this way are still running LR. One problem with LC, Patrols etc is that they are too wide for many of the farm track / greenlane gates in the Dales. These gates have big stone gate post not wooden ones. I've been out with my mate in a Surf and the only way he can ge through is if he runs the wheel so hard on the stones that the car starts to lift of the ground. Others gates not a chance.

Series LR where designed to run on the 4'8" (I think or there abouts anyway) carriage ways used in England since the Roman built roads here.