Small 4x4 recommendations...

[Geoffrey_Bubbles]

Hi all,

I'm interested in purchasing a small compact(ish) 4x4 and wondered what any of you might suggest or have experience with?

Basically its got to be cheap to buy, reliable by reputation, reasonably economical (as I do a lot of miles!), be reasonably good to drive on the road and be fairly cheap to run/service/maintain.....I know I know,.....not asking a lot

I don't want anyhting too big either, hence why I was thinking more of the compact 4x4 market.

My budget is about £3000. I do anyhitng up to about 20,000 miles a year, so it would have to be a diesel, unless it was an economical petrol unit. Not too fussed about peformance, as long as its safe to drive on the motorway, but most of my driving is A roads anyway.

Vehicles I have in mind at the moment are :-

Mitsubishi Shogun Pinin
Suzuki Vitara
Old shape Toyota Rav 4

But would be open to any suggestions, advice, help, etc.

I have previously owned a 1.8 petrol Freelander Anniversary edition on a W plate, but it was harsh on the motorway, heavy on petrol and a bit too big and unweildy for my driving area. So anything noticeably smaller and more economical than that basically!

Cheers in advance
Geoff

[Toddy]

I've been looking at a five door Suzuki Ignis.
Quite fancy it, smallish but then I don't need massive.

cheers,
Toddy

[fred gordon]

Look at the new(ish) Fiat Panda 4X4. A friend of ours has one, we have the non 4x4 version. Often good deals available on them as well.

[Geoffrey_Bubbles]

Ignis, never heard of it, will have to look it up!

Geoff

[Toddy]

Like this one...http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUZUKI-IGNIS-G...QQcmdZViewItem

cheers,
Toddy

[Graham_S]

I've just bought (a couple of months ago) a shogun pinin.
great car, comfy, reliable, and nippy enough that I don't miss my old sports car.
plenty of room for stuff too.

[Tourist]

Landrover, Series 3 Lightweight, diesel - yes they did make them, saw one for 2K recently

And a transesterferication (have I spelt that correctly) set up.

Or, a suzuki jeep thingy and a bucket of waxoyl.

[Doc]

If you can manage with 4 seats and a tiny boot, the Suzuki Jimny is a great car. Had mine maybe 5 years, costs peanuts to maintain. Does abour 40mpg - petrol but 1.3l engine. They are dirt cheap 2nd hand, mine is now 8 years old and never gone wrong. Handling is far, far better than the old SJ series Suzukis.

More capable off road than the others you mention (if that matters). But it is small and noisy, and a diesel may give you lower fuel costs. The diesel Mitsubishi Pinin has the GDi diesel which is very economical.

Definitely buy Japanese, IMHO.

[gorilla]

landy disco 1 - it's not the smallest, it's not the quickest, but i got mine 4 years ago, it was 11 years old then, cost me £750, i've thrown the kitchen sink at it, on and off road, it would tow a loaded bus if i needed it to, and it still drives as well as the day i got it. it's done 210000 miles on the original engine, 55000 of those since i've had it. no comparison to the freelander, which is rubbish. you can pick up a great condition model for £2000ish, and couldn't do better, and if you look after it, a LR is as reliable as any other car out there.
one thing - it's not clear to me why you need a 4x4 from your post - if you want something small that's good on motorways and not too heavy on juice, why not buy a car?!!
landy all the way - they are bombproof

[EdS]

of the ones listed. Vitara - diesel by choise. They are capable off road, easily modified and easy to work on and long wheel base available. Parts are cheap and easy to come by. Alot LR off roader are start to swap to vits.

Rava4 - no low ratio box. Might as well buy a normal car.

Pinin - not sure.

Other Disco or even Range Rover (P38 are stupidly cheap for the car you get). A 200TDi or 300TDi with the EGR blanket off will get around 40mpg on a motorway run - even loaded and canoe on the roof (as a comparison my 1.7TD Astra estate used t oget round 30mpg it the same load). £3000 will get a old but mint Disco.

Other thing t oconsider with any of these is insurance. a LR insured through NFU is relatively cheap.

[Templar]

Hey mate, I'd go with the Toyota Rav 4 myself (& I have...).
I got the old shape 5 door back in 2000 (99 model) and have done over 120,000 km's in mine all over OZ from city driving to light - moderate 4 wheeling, I can get mine where some of the bigger ones like the land cruisers and such cant go if I'm careful, you just need to be able to judge the ground you take. very economical too only addition I have on mine is a good set of driving lights, but she gets me where I want to go and as yet (touch wood...) have had no problems with it.
So I highly recommend the RAV.

Cheers,

Karl.

[twisted firestarter]

Possibly just beyond your budget but what about a Renault Kangoo 4X4

Moonraker used to have one and they are like a tardis inside, very economical too

take a look at this French site (for the pictures)... http://www.kangoo4x4.com/

[swagman]

Suzuki jimnys are ace i have one and it is the best small 4x4 i also have a 1999 rav 4 and its a agreat reliable all rounder.

If you get a landrover join the AA.

[Geoffrey_Bubbles]

Blimey, lots of responses!

I'll try to address them all by suggestion/poster...

Fred, the 4x4 Panda is too new and too expensive, but I do quite like them!

Toddy, the Ignis looks like really good value for money, but I don’t think it is actually 4wd is it and if its only available with a 1.3 it might be a bit of a chore on my longer journeys.

Graham_S, am I right in saying that the Pinin has a low ration box and a locking diff as standard? The GDI is definately a diesel unit?

Tourist/Alex, I knew somebody was going to suggest a Landy eventually, but with the kind of mileage I do it needs to be reasonably refined/comfortable and not require all my spare time in maintenance…..waiting for the flames from Landy owners……
Its also a bit too big and cumbersome for me. Most of my use will be on country lanes, A/B roads and a few rough tracks with just the occasional foray off road across fields and the like. I am expecting to have to compromise on all out off road ability to gain some composure during regular mile munching!

Doc, I looked at the Jimny and space isn’t a major problem for me, hence looking at the more compact end of the 4x4 market, but as with the Ignis, being only a 1.3 I’m not sure what it will be like on longer trips and how well it will cope with the kind of mileage I do. I could be wrong though, but I’ve always had this stigma with small engines and big mileages.

Gorrila, the Disco is heavy on juice isn’t it? Also, I’ve heard of a lot of problems with their reliability on early models (only what I’ve heard!), and that they can be quite expensive to fix if anything goes wrong. Plus its just a bit too big again. Though I suppose having something a bit bigger wouldn’t be a problem, just the compact 4x4s seem good value for money. As I said above, I don’t need a hardcore 4x4 machine, just something that can get me out of a muddy field, up rough tracks and give me some reassurance when the weather turns bad and I’m miles away from home. I’ve always liked 4x4’s and the feeling of adventure they give, and though it was a bit of a softroader, I really liked my old Freelander.

EdS, I’m leaning toward the Vitara simply because there are plenty around that fall within my budget, but I’m trying to keep my options open. The Range Ro is too big for me and my wife wouldn’t drive it! (but that might be a good thing!)

Templar/Karl, the Rav 4 seems to make sense with the Toyota reliability and its probably the most car like to drive as a daily drive and seem to be plenty around within my budget, but I’ve never been sure about the looks, but its probably capable for what it would get used for with a decent set of off road tyres on.

TwistedFireStarter, Yeah, they look pretty good don’t they, but I reckon outside of my budget and probably hard to find. I’ll look them up though.

Swagman, another for the Jimny! Well, that might be TOO small, but again, I’ll add it to my list for further investigation.

What about the Honda CR-V?

Is it true that all 4x4’s now have to pay £400 road tax? Cos that would be a real downer!

I’ll have a look at the sort of Disco I can get in my budget out of interest later as they have been brought up a lot, but thinking its going to be too big and too off road orientated for my kind of use.

Still got to sell my existing car, just doing some groundwork now. Anybody want to buy a well maintained W reg 106 GTI?

Thanks for all your replies, keep em coming 

Geoff

[EdS]

£400 - not all 4x4 only those in group G and above. And this group did not come in until 2001 (or so)

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic....&highlight=tax

[eraaij]

I drive a '92 Daihatsu Feroza. 1.6i Engine and a real 4x4 so built like a tank. So far, no problems with it.
I have one without the back bench and I can easy throw in all the stuff I need for a trip + the Labrador.

A real 4x4 with all the gears and automatic lock. And still 135 km/h if needed.

Otherwise a Suzuki Samurai in good condition would be nice and cheap too. It comes with a somewhat lighter 1.3 engine tough.

-Emile

[lou1661]

Most of my use will be on country lanes, A/B roads and a few rough tracks with just the occasional foray off road across fields and the like. I am expecting to have to compromise on all out off road ability to gain some composure during regular mile munching!


Still got to sell my existing car, just doing some groundwork now. Anybody want to buy a well maintained W reg 106 GTI?


Geoff

Hi Geoff,
I might get shot for saying this but for the type of driving you are looking at doing do you need a 4x4? There are plenty of farmers about that seem to have a battered Pugeuot that has gone on for years doing the sort of driving you describe!.
If you want a 4x4 for what it is then just pick one you like the look of im sure they could all cope with what you need it to do.

Lou
(110 Defender)

[EdS]

as Lou says you could well be better off without a 4x4. Unless it has a low ratio box or lots of fancy electrics it'll be more of a problem in fields - 4 wheels to dig in.

I had a 17td Corsa that never got stuck in fields, did around 60mpg, would use veg oil and was light enough to push on my own. Small car with a decent older style diesel (ie torque rather than new petrol like ones) and decent set of M&S tyres (or even ralley tyres) might be a better option.

[rik_uk3]

If you don't really need 4x4, look at the Fiat Doblo, 1.9 diesel, 40+ to the gallon in town, 60 on a run.

http://www.fiat.co.uk/Showroom/#showroom/doblo

You can pick them up within your budget range. When my knee is fixed, I aim to get one without a doubt.

[Martyn]

Suzuki jimnys are ace i have one and it is the best small 4x4 i also have a 1999 rav 4 and its a agreat reliable all rounder.

If you get a landrover join the AA.

That's a misnomer. The problem is, £3000 will buy you either a 5 year old Suzuki Jimny with 30k on it, or a 25 year old Land Rover with 250k on it.

I think you could expect any vehicle that is a quarter of a century old, with a quarter of a million miles on the clock to have some reliability issues.

Land Rovers are generally very reliable, but they do need regular maintainance, regular oil changes, nuts tightened, regularly greased nipples etc. It's the nature of the beast. Ignore them and they will break down, maintain them and they will run forever ...or at least long after all the jimny's and rav4's have been reduced to shrapnel.

But I agree, the said required, regular maintainance of Landy's is an issue. If you dont like the taste of waxoyl under your fingernails and you just want to buy a 4x4 and run it without liftng the bonnet - get a toyota.

[EdS]

or Nissan.

Older Patrol are good motor

[Moff8]

I had a Jeep Cherokee sport for 4/5 years. Lovely car to drive, comfortable seating postition, no reliabiity issues, no longer than an estate car for parking etc. Not bad MPG on the motorway but around 20ish in town. I had the petrol version, the diesel is better on MPG.

My wife would love to have another. We only gave it up because we were worried about the £400 tax and we had just bought a new house.

[Martyn]

My wife would love to have another. We only gave it up because we were worried about the £400 tax and we had just bought a new house.

Unless you are buying brand new (2007 onwards), the tax is not an issue.

My 2004 registered Landy....



Costs £175 a year to Tax.

[Tourist]

EdS, whats an EGR blanket?

[Martyn]

EdS, whats an EGR blanket?

It's a little valve on the exhaust manifoild that recycles some of the exhaust gasses back into the air intake. It's purpose is to put some of the exhaust through a second burn to reduce some toxic emissions (not CO2 though). If you blank off the valve, you get a better running, cleaner burning engine.

[pothunter]

My brother has an old X-Trail that he used during the floods, he was going to sell it but it proved so reliable that he is now keeping it.He tells me that it was cheap to buy, relatively inexpensive to maintain when compared with proper 4x4's and gives a good return on fuel.

I also rate the Renault Kangoo 4X4 Ive seen them abused by the post in France and Switzerland very tenacious little beast. Carrying capacity well in excess of most small to medium 4x4's.

I had a Dihatsu 4 track about a million years ago very good workhorse bit tippy in the forest didn't like hidden logs and harsh on the motorway.

As for land rovers you either love or hate them, I'll say no more.

Pothunter.

[moocher]

just skimming this post and sounds like you dont even need a 4x4.if a freelander was too big then how about one of those citroen thingys like the street wardens/dog groomers seem to have plenty of room for kit,basically anything with fair amount of ground clearance to go over a field/up a farm track .when i was 17 i did more driving over arable land ,tracks in a marina van than i ever did in the landys i used to own.

[fred gordon]

If you don't really need 4x4, look at the Fiat Doblo, 1.9 diesel, 40+ to the gallon in town, 60 on a run.

http://www.fiat.co.uk/Showroom/#showroom/doblo

You can pick them up within your budget range. When my knee is fixed, I aim to get one without a doubt.

I TOTALLY agree with this! I have had one for the last 2 years and consistantly get 63mpg. I live 2 miles up a single track road which gets a considerable amount of snow in winter. The Dublo may not be a 4x4 but it handles snow very well. It has bags of room, you can sleep in it easily, and the slightly higher than a car driving position gives a great view of the road. You can get second hand for a good price. I have roof bars on mine for the canoe but I have had all sorts of things up there. A superb all round vehicle. Go have a look!

[swagman]

That's a misnomer. The problem is, £3000 will buy you either a 5 year old Suzuki Jimny with 30k on it, or a 25 year old Land Rover with 250k on it.

I think you could expect any vehicle that is a quarter of a century old, with a quarter of a million miles on the clock to have some reliability issues.

Land Rovers are generally very reliable, but they do need regular maintainance, regular oil changes, nuts tightened, regularly greased nipples etc. It's the nature of the beast. Ignore them and they will break down, maintain them and they will run forever ...or at least long after all the jimny's and rav4's have been reduced to shrapnel.

But I agree, the said required, regular maintainance of Landy's is an issue. If you dont like the taste of waxoyl under your fingernails and you just want to buy a 4x4 and run it without liftng the bonnet - get a toyota.

Landrovers have allways had poor reliability the only reason there are so many old ones on the road is because people who love them keep them going or restore them.
And the build quality of the new ones is terrible.

The reason most people in the outback drive toyota is they are reliable even Rm drives
a landcruiser in oz. (this is just my own opinion and experience no offence ment)

[Geoffrey_Bubbles]

Martyn, love your landy, I'll buy it off you for £3k

Yes I know, I can see your point/s, I may not necessarily NEED a 4x4, but millions of people don't need them and still buy them. I like the slightly higher driving position and I like the sense of adventure or the knowing that if you needed to you could do a little off roading. I'd say 95% of my driving is on roads that any car could happily cope with and for most of the year a car makes sense, especially with what little snow we have these days in the winter, but what if...its that whole deal in my head.

Like I said with the Freelander, I liked it, but didn't like that engine and it was very juicy. If I could afford it I'd happily have a TD4 one though, but then I though as our other car is a Citreon Picasso we don't really need another big family holiday type car, I just want to have a bit of fun.

I've got quite a few models to check out now and will be looking through some of the clubs/forums to see what the score is with most of them.

Cheers
Geoff