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Thread: How to open a new campsite???

  1. #1
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    Default How to open a new campsite???

    as i mentioned in the 'bushcraft insurance' thread, myself and a friend, both cheesed off with the grind of town life, have been seriously considering selling up and opening a campsite - not a 'square field, camp-round-the-edge-kids/dogs/fires/bbqs-prohibited' site, but a bushy-fires allowed-camp in the woods type of place. both of us have been googling like crazy trying to find a starting point for research, but with little success. i've found woodland for sale sites, but cannot find out what you are allowed to do once it's yours, and there doesn't seem to be any info anywhere on how to start a campsite of any description. things like business license/liability insurance aside, does anyone have any tips/knowledge/advice on where to find out anything? we are thinking of northern england/wales as an area, and we're both getting pretty frustrated at the difficulties in even finding out the smallest pieces of information
    any help would be greatly appreciated
    i'm a townie - GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!!!!

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    I don't know whether any of the bushcraft schools would be able to offer advice. I realise that they could conceivably see you as competition - or on the other side of the coin they could see you as another means of drawing people into bushcraft (and into their schools).

    You probably don't have anything to lose by asking.



    Geoff

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    Gorilla, check out http://www.woodlands.co.uk/ there is heaps of info on there including different contacts and ideas etc.

    BUT...A lot of places where you buy part of a wood will come with a covenant..just like if you buy an appartment, where all tenants are expected to behave and conduct themselves by a set list of rules. Unfortunately in the case of http://www.woodlands.co.uk/ that means not running any commercial activities from the woodland. So the woodland they are selling will not be suitable for you. The info on the site though should give you some starters though.

    Good luck with your quest.

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    thanks andyn, but you're right about the covenant - it includes the clause 'shall not be used for a commercial campsite' and this is the problem i have come across time and again.
    is there anywhere that advertises private land for sale that isn't governed by such stringent rules?

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    Do you know any farmers with woodland? You could approach them with a proposition. A couple of questions first.
    1. Do you envisage selling up and moving to the bushcraft woods permanently? (Lock stock and family in tow).

    2. Do you plan on just doing summer bushcraft, or will it be open all year round?

    3. Do you know how to write a business plan and cash flow forecast?

    If the answer to 1. is no, then you won't need to worry about building your family a house on the site, also planning permission won't be a major issue.

    An all year round campsite might have access problems due to muddy tracks in the winter, so a few tons of hardcore might have to come into the equation. First couple of years running a summer only bushcraft campsite might be wise to see how it goes.

    A business plan and cash flow forecast shows people you are serious. It will show a landowner that there may be profit in it for him/her.

    Realistically, it needn't cost much to start up. An agreement with a woodland owner, access for parking, minimal facilities (a tap plumbed in to the site and a couple of 'treebogs'). You can grow willow vigorously round a treebog and this can be harvested annually for anything you can use willow withes for (baskets, weaving, living willow structures, shelter building etc). Treebogs also mean that your campers won't need to dig little holes all over the place (which would mess up the site in no time at all).

    It certainly sounds feasable. Appropriate advertising would guarantee you a regular stream of visitors, and a regular income.

    Check to see if any of the environmental support organisations offer startup grants for small rural businesses, then check to see if your venture will qualify. You'll need the business plan for them too, so it's worth while writing one.

    Can't think of anything more at the minute, but I'd just like to say I think it's a great idea and I'd be happy to lend a hand (as a mate) at any stage of it's development if you think I could be of any use.

    Eric
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    sounds like a great idea mate good luck and i hope it works out for you
    leon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_Methven View Post
    Do you know any farmers with woodland? You could approach them with a proposition. A couple of questions first.
    1. Do you envisage selling up and moving to the bushcraft woods permanently? (Lock stock and family in tow).

    2. Do you plan on just doing summer bushcraft, or will it be open all year round?

    3. Do you know how to write a business plan and cash flow forecast?

    If the answer to 1. is no, then you won't need to worry about building your family a house on the site, also planning permission won't be a major issue.

    An all year round campsite might have access problems due to muddy tracks in the winter, so a few tons of hardcore might have to come into the equation. First couple of years running a summer only bushcraft campsite might be wise to see how it goes.

    A business plan and cash flow forecast shows people you are serious. It will show a landowner that there may be profit in it for him/her.

    Realistically, it needn't cost much to start up. An agreement with a woodland owner, access for parking, minimal facilities (a tap plumbed in to the site and a couple of 'treebogs'). You can grow willow vigorously round a treebog and this can be harvested annually for anything you can use willow withes for (baskets, weaving, living willow structures, shelter building etc). Treebogs also mean that your campers won't need to dig little holes all over the place (which would mess up the site in no time at all).

    It certainly sounds feasable. Appropriate advertising would guarantee you a regular stream of visitors, and a regular income.

    Check to see if any of the environmental support organisations offer startup grants for small rural businesses, then check to see if your venture will qualify. You'll need the business plan for them too, so it's worth while writing one.

    Can't think of anything more at the minute, but I'd just like to say I think it's a great idea and I'd be happy to lend a hand (as a mate) at any stage of it's development if you think I could be of any use.

    Eric
    thanks eric!
    in reply;
    1. yes, but renting off-site is not out of the question
    2. all year, but your point on starting summer only is a sensible one
    3. i have a little experience, but my friend has alot, plus my little brother has a business degree and is well versed in all that kind of thing

    i too was thinking that initial start-up would not be horribly expensive - we will have the cash from 2 house sales to invest, and like you say, beyond the purchase of the land and the installation of a few basic amenities, the costs should not be out of reach. from what i've read on bcuk in any mildly relevant thread, demand for the site should not be a problem, as the availability of bushy sites is pitifully thin on the ground.
    as an example of something i aspire to, Glyn Y Mul Farm would be a decent benchmark. i'm going there later in the year with the friends in question, and maybe can find out something from the owner there, as long as i assure him i will be far enough away so as not to impact on his business!!
    my friend is of the opinion that leasing unfarmable land from a farmer may be the best way to go (although ideally we would like to own it ourselves), but the biggest stumbling block is still finding the land in the first place!
    many thanks for the advice mate, and also for the generous offer of help. if i ever need it, i will call on you!
    it just seems to me that we all want good sites where we can do our own thing, and as considerate land users to a man/woman, it shouldn't be made to be this hard!!!

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    I reckon you would be best off with a farm. I was thinking this the other day when I watched Ray and Gordon (Wild Food) clambering along the Scottish coast line collecting sea food and saw an old farmstead or pig sty that looked like it could be converted to live in. The idea would be for people to come up and live in a stone building with none of todays conveniences such as refrigeration, electricity, water on tap, etc. Foraging from the coast and meat from sheep kept around the area would be a fantastic way to live for a week to get a taste of how it would have been, a big hot fire boiling a big pot constantly, and all sorts of wild foods being collected. Certainly something that could create a lot of interest as I believe people just want the escapism more and more these days.

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    Speak to your council and local government bodies. I know that one of the places I trained had been give a fairly hefty grant to help buy the land in the first place. From what I remember of grants though you will need the business plan that Eric mentioned.
    True happiness is waking up cuddled into a warm woman on a cold morning.

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    I've just had a look at the Glyn Y Mul Farm website and it looks great. Good idea to visit there and do a bit of research.

    Eric
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  11. #11

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    Hi, dont know if it will be helpful for you, but i was in Little Plumpton village the other day (kinda near to Wrea Green, near Kirkham), and i noticed some land for sale. I'd read your thread just the day before and immediately thought about the problems you've been having. The land was 17 acres currently used for agricultural purposes. It has 2 fresh water ponds and good access from Preston New road. It is being advertised on the UK land directory website (www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/land-for-sale) for 130,000. I think the UK land directory would probably know about the stuff you need (permissions, insurances, etc). Why not give them a bell and see what you can find out?
    Hope this helps, Nichola

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    Quote Originally Posted by gorilla View Post
    as i mentioned in the 'bushcraft insurance' thread, myself and a friend, both cheesed off with the grind of town life, have been seriously considering selling up and opening a campsite - not a 'square field, camp-round-the-edge-kids/dogs/fires/bbqs-prohibited' site, but a bushy-fires allowed-camp in the woods type of place. both of us have been googling like crazy trying to find a starting point for research, but with little success. i've found woodland for sale sites, but cannot find out what you are allowed to do once it's yours, and there doesn't seem to be any info anywhere on how to start a campsite of any description. things like business license/liability insurance aside, does anyone have any tips/knowledge/advice on where to find out anything? we are thinking of northern england/wales as an area, and we're both getting pretty frustrated at the difficulties in even finding out the smallest pieces of information
    any help would be greatly appreciated
    i'm a townie - GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!!!!
    Hello Gorilla,
    Why don't you try and speak to these guys, they seem friendly enough.
    http://www.bushcraftadventures.com/
    They run a site where you can specifically go an do the bushcraft thing.
    I hope this helps.
    ATB Greg
    "Everyone Who Has Not Already Done So Should Avail Themself Of The Magnificent Panorama Provided By Nature!"

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    just a thought about the covenant on woodlands.co.uk it says "No Commercial campsite" and "no business from the land apart from forestry" .

    would you be able to set up a bushcraft school?

    as you are not allowing people to camp there when they want and you are not refining the materials and resources of the land directly for commercial gain i.e keeping livestock in it,

    you are teaching people how to work with the forest, maybe you could put a conservation spin on it.
    Matt

    "Light a man a fire and he is warm for a few hours, Set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life" :-D

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    i am also stuck in a crappy town no where near any woods,although a wild camping/woods site would be great,recently i did this race called Tough Guy and the guy owned lots of land and there was a choice to camp on the grass - no fire, just tents etc, and there was also a forest camping, fires allowed, make your own shelter if you wanted! but that wasnt even used and it was alot cheaper! i dont know whats wrong with people haha:P, If you are on about starting a campsite what i did was walk to my "local" woods about 5 miles away made afew shelters, made like a base and me and my friends go now and then to just relax, its a public woods but untouched sadly

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    Hi yes I have thought about this to and may be on day it will be possible . But I would think you would have to be a bit realistic about it. For the most part camping has a very short season perhaps 8 weeks at most with a bit of grey area perhaps another two so in ten weeks you have to make enough to live on etc given the cost of the woodland rates etc it would be difficult to make it pay . the route I was thinking would be more self sufficiant still work and have one or two guests just for the crack and bit extra income
    We borrow the earth just leave it better than you found it !

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilan View Post
    Hi yes I have thought about this to and may be on day it will be possible . But I would think you would have to be a bit realistic about it. For the most part camping has a very short season perhaps 8 weeks at most with a bit of grey area perhaps another two so in ten weeks you have to make enough to live on etc given the cost of the woodland rates etc it would be difficult to make it pay . the route I was thinking would be more self sufficiant still work and have one or two guests just for the crack and bit extra income
    i disagree completely.
    i camp all year, and from what i read on this site, and many other campsite forums (becuase i have researched beyond this forum) the demand for an all year bushcraft friendly campsite is there with bells on. if you work on an 8 week season, i figure you as a fair weather camper - your grey area seems to be 'if it's raining i won't go'
    my sense of realism doesn't need to be called into question by you - i have invested alot of time into researching what is a very difficult hurdle to overcome - but don't worry - when the wintermoot is taking place at my site in 2 or 3 years, i won't assume you're coming

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilan View Post
    For the most part camping has a very short season perhaps 8 weeks at most with a bit of grey area perhaps another two
    You seem to be confusing namby pamby commercial sites that cater for families on the summer holidays with a rough and ready bushcraft camping site - made for people who drink Iron-bru (made in Scotland from girders).

    Of course it'll get used all year round. The only reason many of us don't winter camp is because most places close for winter. If they stayed open we'd use them. That's why Gorilla's idea has so much merit. Blimey, the people on here could probably keep the venture going even without outsiders.

    Eric
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    thanks for the backup eric - good to have the support
    i feel an advertising tag coming on - 'camp in the woods or in the methven field....'

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    Another thing to consider, is that if you have a lot of bushcrafters using a permanent site all year round. You WILL have to provide timber/firewood, if not your tree stock will dissapear like ice in the desert.
    I wish you luck and if you do get it going will be among your first customers.
    All the best.
    Ian.

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    If you could do a site where it was possible to catch fish (e.g. pond /lake stocked with trout) and maybe provide some game (even if the people who attended didn't actually catch the game) - i.e. you provide fresh bunnies or something similar for people to buy, that they could then prepare and cook, that would be really good.



    Geoff

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    i'd just like to thank everyone for their ongoing ideas and encouragement. i'm in derbyshire next week for a couple of days, so i'm going to have a look round the peak area, and see if there is anything available. i think renting farmland is the way to go, and wil be focusing my search there. looks like it's time to clock up a few miles in the landy!

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    The reasons are unfortunate, but you may well have picked a very good time to try renting farmland as I suspect that if I was a farmer, I would be looking for new sources of revenue at the moment.

    I like the sound of the Peak District - not too far for me to travel.



    Geoff

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    I too have looked into this with a friend and we produced a draft business plan. Our biggest stumbing block is where we live in the south east and a general lack of suitable land and the major problem that the dream campsite we had envisaged was extremely unlikely to get off the ground.

    We had a plan to buy some woodland (not quite as simple as that, we had something very specific in mind, but you get the gist!) and set up a bushcraft orientated campsite with a number of other attractions, BUT no matter what you buy unless it already IS a campsite, you will have to apply to the council for a 'change of use' for the land to turn it into a campsite and a comercial venture. Chances of getting such a change on a piece of actual woodland is extremely unlikely according to our local council.

    Farmland would be a better bet, but even then its location could be key. Many 'locals' may not want a campsite in their area and many people seem to have an image of it being misused by travellers and the like with or without your permission. Also, if its a farmers field and the next field alongis for his livestock he may not take too kindly to having a campsite next door with unruly kids and large numbers of people regularly tromping across it.

    There just seem to be so many posible problems, but that said, I'm sure if you keep at it, pick you site very carefully and pitch it to the council in a sound plan with good financial projections and the possibility that you are going to be attracting tourists to the area, who knows, anything IS possible.

    Also bear in mind that if you managed to set up a camp site anywhere that your not going to be able to pick and choose who stays there, you'll have all sorts turning up from your typical family, the lads out for a laugh, the late night music brigade, the bushy types that you actually want to attract and it may not all mix and could be a 'mare to manage!

    Sure got to beat a 9-5 desk job though!

    Good luck to you.

    Geoff
    Last edited by Geoffrey_Bubbles; 06-08-2007 at 20:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gorilla View Post
    but don't worry - when the wintermoot is taking place at my site in 2 or 3 years, i won't assume you're coming

    Well said Gorilla, I for one would definately use your site if that was OK with you when its up and running. Good luck to you is all I have to say...
    "Everyone Who Has Not Already Done So Should Avail Themself Of The Magnificent Panorama Provided By Nature!"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey_Bubbles View Post
    I too have looked into this with a friend and we produced a draft business plan. Our biggest stumbing block is where we live in the south east and a general lack of suitable land and the major problem that the dream campsite we had envisaged was extremely unlikely to get off the ground.

    We had a plan to buy some woodland (not quite as simple as that, we had something very specific in mind, but you get the gist!) and set up a bushcraft orientated campsite with a number of other attractions, BUT no matter what you buy unless it already IS a campsite, you will have to apply to the council for a 'change of use' for the land to turn it into a campsite and a comercial venture. Chances of getting such a change on a piece of actual woodland is extremely unlikely according to our local council.

    Farmland would be a better bet, but even then its location could be key. Many 'locals' may not want a campsite in their area and many people seem to have an image of it being misused by travellers and the like with or without your permission. Also, if its a farmers field and the next field alongis for his livestock he may not take too kindly to having a campsite next door with unruly kids and large numbers of people regularly tromping across it.

    There just seem to be so many posible problems, but that said, I'm sure if you keep at it, pick you site very carefully and pitch it to the council in a sound plan with good financial projections and the possibility that you are going to be attracting tourists to the area, who knows, anything IS possible.

    Also bear in mind that if you managed to set up a camp site anywhere that your not going to be able to pick and choose who stays there, you'll have all sorts turning up from your typical family, the lads out for a laugh, the late night music brigade, the bushy types that you actually want to attract and it may not all mix and could be a 'mare to manage!

    Sure got to beat a 9-5 desk job though!

    Good luck to you.

    Geoff
    thanks Geoff - your post pretty well sums up the problems i've had. i'm not worried about attracting the right type of people to the site - the right advertising would pretty much take care of that (see the Glyn Y Mul website)
    the eternal stumbling block is still finding the land - it is becoming like a Grail quest!!
    we are currently drawing up a business plan/cost projection with my brothers help, and over the next 2 or 3 months are planning on travelling to the 3 or 4 areas we're considering and doing some legwork driven research

  26. #26
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    Well good luck to you, hope it works out. Be sure to let us know how you get on.

    Have a think though about what else you can do with the land and what might attract people to the site, i.e. what is in the local area, is there good walking, foraging, wildlife in the area, etc.

    You might get a better response in your area, the south east is just too overcrowded now and I get the impression if there is a field somewhere thats suitable for people to camp on then they'd rather put houses on it!

    Cheers
    Geoff

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    i know what you mean Geoff - i grew up in Herts, and from what i saw on my last visit there, the term 'Green Belt' hardly applies anymore

  28. #28

    Default a thought

    If you purchased a combined site that is both woods and open land. The open area could be your registered campsite and the woods could be open for 'general access' etc.

    I would think the problem is that councils would see change of use as 'flatten the wood, build roads, concrete shower blocks, caravans etc, etc.

    If you produced artist sketches that detailed landscaping to hide things, wood chip roads, and no caravans, allowed bush screens for the site. No caravans means no hard standings and no standpipes, power links etc.

    If you made everything from the shower block to the office 'eco friendly' it is also another string to your bow as it will not place starin on sewage etc. They may be more inclined to accept your argument if they are made aware that it is low impact and that is the selling point.


    Sandsnakes
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  29. #29

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    Sounds like a nice idea, I hope you pull it off.

    Myself and a friend just spent a few days in the woodland at Glyn Y Mul Farm. We had bad luck as the camping trip we had planned for months turned out to be exactly when the servre weather/flooding happened, but we went anyway. The site was lovely, I wont go into detail because there's enough on the site, but I can tell you Ian (the owner) is a very nice/helpful and informative person, I should imagine he will be very helpful and will tell you a hell of a lot of the stuff you need to know. He told us a few things about how he ran his site. I can say he is a very busy man through the summer, well he was when we were there, so probably spending a few nights there would be a good way to sit down with beer with him when he's got the chance.

    They're very self-sufficient on the farm, they have their own water-source that they purify, they have a turbine for elecricity. I think its good that they have both fields for your normal campers/tents/caravans and woodland, I would recommend that. Ian was fine with campfires even on the field area's however it had to be in one of the half-keg things, so it didnt ruin the grass everywhere.

    When we went up the woodland got flooded and we had to abandon camp at 6am with streams starting to flow under our hammocks, lol, and retreated to a tent up on steep/well-drained field, it was the worst weather since records began, just our luck for our well planned trip! lol. There's a few shots at the site on my gallery:
    http://www.ashleycawley.co.uk/bushcraft-2007/index.html
    The second half of the shots are at the Summer Bushmoot. Good luck with your plans and let me know when you've got your site up

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwalker View Post
    Sounds like a nice idea, I hope you pull it off.

    Myself and a friend just spent a few days in the woodland at Glyn Y Mul Farm. We had bad luck as the camping trip we had planned for months turned out to be exactly when the servre weather/flooding happened, but we went anyway. The site was lovely, I wont go into detail because there's enough on the site, but I can tell you Ian (the owner) is a very nice/helpful and informative person, I should imagine he will be very helpful and will tell you a hell of a lot of the stuff you need to know. He told us a few things about how he ran his site. I can say he is a very busy man through the summer, well he was when we were there, so probably spending a few nights there would be a good way to sit down with beer with him when he's got the chance.

    They're very self-sufficient on the farm, they have their own water-source that they purify, they have a turbine for elecricity. I think its good that they have both fields for your normal campers/tents/caravans and woodland, I would recommend that. Ian was fine with campfires even on the field area's however it had to be in one of the half-keg things, so it didnt ruin the grass everywhere.

    When we went up the woodland got flooded and we had to abandon camp at 6am with streams starting to flow under our hammocks, lol, and retreated to a tent up on steep/well-drained field, it was the worst weather since records began, just our luck for our well planned trip! lol. There's a few shots at the site on my gallery:
    http://www.ashleycawley.co.uk/bushcraft-2007/index.html
    The second half of the shots are at the Summer Bushmoot. Good luck with your plans and let me know when you've got your site up
    great photos! - i love the look of the camp by the river in the woods - just the kind of thing i want to do!
    ps very impressed with the tarp set-up over the tent - will try that next time i take the 2-man out

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