making kit lighter and more compact.

[Lithril]

Totally agree with Gary, what you carry is purely down to state of mind and skill level.
In an ideal world and with sufficient skill you could actually go with absolutely nothing. Stuarts a good one for this as I've seen him get his gear into 20L. The majority of space in my bag is taken up with the sleeping bag but I can easily now fit enough gear into 35L, must admit I'm glad noone took a picture of the trip I did with Ed, Dean and Stuart, had a job to walk with my pack. Normally now I pack the following:-

Sleeping Bag
Tarp
Hammock
Knife
Billhook
First Aid Kit + a few extras like syndol, anti-histamines etc.
Survival Bag
Cotton Wool Balls/Vaseline (luxury)
Ferrous Rod
Leathermans (probably a luxury but handy)
DC4 sharpening Stone
Snares
Cooking Pot or Billy
Aussie Bush Hat (personally I think this important, especially in strong sun, also handy in rain)
Tikka Plus + Spare batteries (luxury)
Thermarest (luxury)
Loo Roll/Tissues
Hand Wipes/Antiseptic Hand Wipes
Multi-Purpose Soap (washing plates and me )
Antiseptic Foot Powder (my feet really aren't nice after a day in boots but this is probably a luxury)
Change of Underwear (luxury)
Small pair of binoculars (luxury)
Coffee Bags (luxury)
Spoon
Crook Knife (luxury)
Bannock Mix
Dried Fruit (luxury)
A few food additives (luxury)
Hip Flask with whisky/rum (essential ops: )
Copy of Food for Free (luxury if you know your plants well... I don't ops: )

I think thats about it, this lot easily fits into a 35L sack with room to spare, and I could cut a hell of a lot of this out, but personally I feel a lot it is well worth the extra weight. Some items I havent marked as luxuries as I don't think my skill is enough to warrent being without it yet, snares for instant can be made from cordage, spoons can be made, leather strops used to sharpen knives. I think kit weights/size is quite a personal thing, what I feel is important others wouldn't event think twice about leaving behind.

[Viking]

Knowledge and the feeling that the woods is your home the less kit will you need when out there. Remember that things like sleeping bags, tarps and big rucksacks are modern things. People have lived with very little before. Try spending a night without all your kit, only bring your knife, cooking pot and some food. It´s an experience and after you will know what to bring next time.

[Gary]

Very true Viking.

Anybody, eqiupped with nothing at all, can survive a night in the woods if they have the ability to light a fire.

Try this and you will see just how little you really need. :cold2:

Most of what a modern bushman (or women) carries would be considered as luxury items to our forebears. Today we are oftened tricked into carrying more than we need, for instance we carry a knife that is to big becuase its the one we see on the tv and yet it cannot be used for all our needs so we then carry a second smaller one. We carry a billy can, crusader cup, stove, fuel, plate and fork when something like a swedish mess set and a wooden sppon would simply do.

I often think that Carry less by knowing more should be interpreted as Carry more by LEARNING less!

R Mears once said, the students who learn the most are those who cant afford the latest, expensive gear - probably before he opened his shop, but the point is still pertinent.

[Stuart]

Where is stuart when you need him. A thread comes up about super light weight kit and he's away!!!

I have a 35l pack which keeps the amount down that I carry.... if it doesn't fit, it don't come along.

:-)
Ed

I'm in a log cabin in the woods in Finnland and it has internet so i can get BCUK!!!! and I have found a thread on light weight kit!!!!!! does life get any better :-D

in my twenty liter rocket paks I carry:

between the pack and the harness fits my water bag which carrys 3 liters (the minimum i am happy traveling with)

down sleeping bag (800 fill -13deg) 900g
Hennesy hammock ultralite A-sym
MSR titan (titanium cooking pot which has handles so it can be used as a mug I have also added a hanging loop)
spare socks and swimming trunks
warm top (a ranger shirt or if very cold a down jacket RAB 750 fill)
Premac water purifyer
full medical kit
Folding saw (this is one of mine)
toilet roll
petzel tikka plus
repair kit (super glue and speed tape)
wash kit (toothbrush, mirror, soap, mini towel,wet wipes)
Bannock mix
a couple of Savu bags and spice mix

in my ventile jacket:

titanium spoon
mozzi net
leather gloves
knife with fire steel
tinder pouch with fire steel and green heat gel sachets
Buff
20 snares and fishing kit
leatherman wave
compass
photon torch around my neck with whistle
DC4 sharpening stone



Thats all i can think of at the moment I'll go off and check my bag and see if i have forgotton anything

[Roving Rich]

Wise words Gary and Viking. Stuarts amazing kit is a bit expensive for my pocket, and some items are custom made or vertually imposible to come by.

I got stranded the other week and ended up sleeping rough in the woods with no kit. Not even a coat. Only a plastic water bottle that became my pillow. It was a warm dry night and i knew i would survive.
I had most of the night to think what kit i actually needed, as i got little sleep. (I am looking more at the ultra lightweight bug out bag approach here)
I had a fleece jumper on which kept me just warm enough. (It was dark and late so i didn't build a shelter, just wanted to get my head down.)
So top of the list was a hat. If nothing else i would have liked a warm hat
Next was sleeping bag of some sort or a blanket. I reckoned a blizzard bag is perfect. Its small, lightweight and waterproof, so no need for a sleeping bag and bivvy/hoochie or poncho. ( I phoned woodland organics and they promptly got one for me !)
Some means of making fire - a cigarette lighter + backup ? some light would have been nice
Cooking and eating i reckon those Aluminium foil containers that chinese takeaway arrives in. Very light weight and with a bit of care can be folded flat and reused.
A water bottle.
include the knife in my pocket, a brew kit including a cuppa soup and you are about there. (I also had an LED light on my keyring)

It was a very useful exercise, I recommend it. The clothes you stand up in, say after a saturday shopping trip or something. Then head to the woods as you are. Suprising what it revealed.

So I think that is the bare minimum for an overnight. Work up from there, everything else is a luxury or an indulgence, so make it count.

Having said this i still travel overloaded, but have a new perspective and i am stripping my kit down.

Cheers
Rich

[maddave]

As an ex squaddie we used to cut half the handle off yer spoon, yer toothbrush, have half a tube of toothpaste, half a towel etc etc...Soon cut yer weight down. Having said that I now tend to carry an 80ltr pack ops: with all me bushcraft toys in 8-) .

Noticed that www.allthingsmilitary.co.uk are doing a KFS set that's half size fer about £7. I've ordered one to check it out :-)

[RAPPLEBY2000]

i have to agree with you there,

i have already cut all the relevent easy bits ie smaller amounts of toiletries.

i have some tips myself passed onto me by an ultralight camper i used to know i don't use these myself but you may find them useful:

rather than para cord use kite fliying cord, as strong but much lighter/more compact.

rather than taking a sleeping mat (which is very light!) he made a ripstop nylon envelope to stuff with leaves for insulation, so all you carry is the very light envelope!

another guy told me of a method of going into a medatative state where your body produces huge amounts of heat so extra insulation is not needed (not sure about that one! :shock: ).

a good point from roving rich, is basically don't take what you don't use!

:-?
Im still trying to loose that extra lb! :wink:

[sargey]

whilst i agree wholeheartedly with the comments about surviving with next to nothing. it's all luxuries compared to our ancestors yes, but we need to keep it in context. we aren't all able to drop saplings to build thermally efficient shelters every night we go camping.

but all this does remind me of one thing, ditchfield, can i have my kit back now? :shock:

cheers, and.

[sargey]

stu, how much food can you get in your rocketpack rig?

this thread has drifted a bit.

how's about setting an arbitrary volume for the three days worth of food. 2 ltrs?

cheers, and.

[Wayne]

You have all seen my pic from the dartmoor meet. i am not the trimest amongst you. Short and fat so why do i spend a fortune on titanium mugs and pots etc to save a few grams.

My pack varies from 65l to 25l depending on the nature of the trip.
i generally have more fun on the more minimalist trips.

[leon-1]

in my twenty liter rocket paks I carry:

between the pack and the harness fits my water bag which carrys 3 liters (the minimum i am happy traveling with)

down sleeping bag (800 fill -13deg) 900g
Hennesy hammock ultralite A-sym
MSR titan (titanium cooking pot which has handles so it can be used as a mug I have also added a hanging loop)
spare socks and swimming trunks
warm top (a ranger shirt or if very cold a down jacket RAB 750 fill)
Premac water purifyer
full medical kit
Folding saw (this is one of mine)
toilet roll
petzel tikka plus
repair kit (super glue and speed tape)
wash kit (toothbrush, mirror, soap, mini towel,wet wipes)
Bannock mix
a couple of Savu bags and spice mix

in my ventile jacket:

titanium spoon
mozzi net
leather gloves
knife with fire steel
tinder pouch with fire steel and green heat gel sachets
Buff
20 snares and fishing kit
leatherman wave
compass
photon torch around my neck with whistle
DC4 sharpening stone



Thats all i can think of at the moment I'll go off and check my bag and see if i have forgotton anything

Stuart out of curiosity, if you take an unexpected spill into the drink or if it is really hammering down how do you keep the contents of your rocket packs dry?

You have mentioned at least two items above that do not work overly well when soaking and if it is not warm enough to dry them out what do you do?

Or have you forgotten to mention either an ortlieb bag or some kind of liner?

[Stuart]

AH! well done I forgot that bit

The sleeping bag (which takes up almost all of one pouch) is packed inside a very light weight bivi bag similar to the RAB survival zone but mine isnt as good (and i have no idea who made mine)

the top is then twisted and coiled, i also pack my down jacket when carried in with the sleping bag

most of the other stuf is packed into there own Aloksak bags (as light weight as ziplock bags but much tougher and water proof to 60m)

Down kit is usless when it gets wet so you have to be religious about keeping it dry

[leon-1]

Cheers Stuart, you didn't mention the Bivi Bag (obviously not like mine as this would take up the better part of a rocket pouch on its own) :biggthump

[ditchfield]

whilst i agree wholeheartedly with the comments about surviving with next to nothing. it's all luxuries compared to our ancestors yes, but we need to keep it in context. we aren't all able to drop saplings to build thermally efficient shelters every night we go camping.

but all this does remind me of one thing, ditchfield, can i have my kit back now? :shock:

cheers, and.

Of course! Sorry, I forgot about it too. Thanks so much for the loan (and the knife, are you sure you don't want it back? t'was so kind of you). I will send it out as soon as possible. Please can you PM me your address, i've lost it ops:.

[RovingArcher]

I've managed to get my gear down to a 9 liter waterproof ruck, a water resistent belt pouch and US issue canteen w/cup, pouch and chemical water treatment. Around 13# or just over 1 stone including water. Well, that plus my Victorinox SAK w/saw and firesteel, as well as my leatherman that I carry on my belt. My main ruck (avatar) is almost 3 times the volume of this ruck, but this is the one I'll have with me when and if I get stranded while out and about in the truck.

Gear in the ruck and pouch are as follows.

1x US issue poncho
1x Smartwool socks
1x Shorts
1x Thermal longsleeved shirt
1x Esbit stove w/6 fuel tabs
1x USAF survival knife w/minikit in Blackhawk sheath pouch and paracord wrapped handle.
1x Small food kit
2x Heavy Duty 55 gallon industrial drum liners.
1x Notepad and pencil
1x gloves
1x First Aid Kit
1x Fishing/sewing kit
1x Bug juice towelettes (12)
1x Emergency candle
4x Pitchwitch firestarter
1x space blanket
1x TP (toilet roll)
1x Small burlap bag with carry handles (water carry)
1x 1 gallon ziploc freezer bag (water carry)
1x Spark-lite aviators firestarting kit w/extra tinder
1x Minimag flashlight
1x Compass
1x 15 meters parachute cord

[ditchfield]

I read this useful tip in an 'Ultralight Backpacking' book:

Divide the gear that you are planning to take into 3 piles, Essentials, things you might need and luxuries. Get rid of the last 2 piles. Take whats left.

[Stuart]

always take one luxury, light weight camping should be comfortable nothing is more important than a good nights sleep

never ever leave your camera behind you will regret it

[bob_the_bomb]

This is a how long is a piece of string question. The answer will vary with the length of the trip, the climate, the season, the purpose of the trip (dont need 80 rounds of 7.62 on a weekend hike) and whether or not you are carrying it on your back or in your car boot. That being said, I am a lazy bugger with a kit fetish so this is a question I ask myself all the time. I try a combination of two things when packing my full bag:

1. before repacking I prioritise the kit and keep picking up the rucksack as I fill it up. Once it starts getting hard to swing onto my back I stop and re-check

2. I look very hard at duplications...be wary of carrying too many knives, for example, or too many changes of clothes

3. Watch out for the 'nice to have' stuff/

4. Another trick is to use 'small' things like bars of soap from hotels rather than the big wedge from boots, travel sized toothpaste (like the freebies on airplanes) and a cut down towel. At one stage I even used to cut the handle of my toothbrush!

5. When I come back from a trip I also review my gear to check whether I needed to carry each item...For example in my survival kit I still carry protection, firelighting and water purification gear but I have stopped carrying snares

[PJMCBear]

You want lightweight, I give you lightweight.

This is the dryweight with no food/fluids for a weekend out walking. Only 3 seasons though. Meets tend to be a very different setup.

Some of the gear is quite expensive, but you pay for comfort and being light.

Lightweight Gear list Weight (g)

Golite Jam 2 rucksack 600
Takonta Tarp 634
Cord bag 70
6 Pegs 142
Mozzie net 408
Sleeping bag liner 254
Snugpak Travel Paklite Sleeping bag 700
Bivi Bag 366
Marmot D-Lux Pump Sleeping mat 890
Beanie 40
Head Torch 76
Spork 18
MSR Kettle 118
Pocket Rocket stove 146
Gas Canister 210
Milk Flask 238
Water bottle 142
Water filter 70
Lighter 14
Matches 10
Brew Kit 108
FAK 48
Wet Wipes 52
Liquid Soap 66
Toothpaste 24
Toothbrush 16
Comb 10
.25 pan scrubber 4
Foot Powder 68
Waterproof Jkt 368
Tp Bag 16
Mozzie Repellent 48
Bandanna 40
Notebook & Pencil 58
Meds 10
Hipflask 210
Sp Socks 52
Fleece 380
Sp Bttys 18
Sp Specs 108
Gloves 40

Total weight 6890

[Landy_Dom]

I read this useful tip in an 'Ultralight Backpacking' book:

Divide the gear that you are planning to take into 3 piles, Essentials, things you might need and luxuries. Get rid of the last 2 piles. Take whats left.

I read a similar quote in a travel book:

Put all the kit you think you need all laid out on your bed, along with all the money you are thinking of taking. Then take half the kit and twice the money and it should be about right.


Last couple of camps I've done I've weighed in my kit on my return and made a list - what i used, what I didn't use, what alternatives I could have taken etc etc.... Still working on it but it's throwing up some useful ideas.

Really good thread by the way - enjoying it

Dom.

[IanM]

I have always wanted to tramp around. An old army greatcoat and a few essentials in the pockets.

They used to manage it on the road for weeks at a time but I have never discovered the details of their success.

[dwardo]

Depends if we are talking survive the night or very comfortable
Yes you can go with next to nothing but no matter how much i try i cant leave my lovely old military winter bag at home. This old sleeping bag takes up 3/4 of my bergen and weighs about the same as a baby elephant but its a guaranteed good warm nights sleep.
I also tend to take all sorts of craft stuff, knives, bow stuff, carving stuff so that starts to stack on the lbs. Its the same for food i suppose, do i want to eat ratpacks or will i lug the extra weight for a fresh slow cooked lamb stew ??

I guess its down to what you want to do out there.

[saddle_tramp]

check out this link, theres tons of fascinating stuff on there,

http://www.backpacking-lite.co.uk/index.htm

It totally depends what youre doing, but if your walking big milages, you can lose tens of pounds, and transform the experience from a head down trudge to something way different

[Chips]

Maybe if we were all forced to spend 3 days in the wilderness with...

1 x knife
1 x billy can
1 x crusader mug/cup
1 x spoon/spork
1 x tarp + paracord
1 x bivi bag
1 x sleeping bag
3 x one day rations (...of your own choice and composition)
1 x milbank bag
1 x litre water bottle
1 x ferro rod
1 x loo roll.

Plus 5 more items of your own choosing, weighing no more than 5 pounds total, or 5 litres capacity, whichever is the greater (consider a first aid kit as 1 item, clean underpants as 1 item, clean socks as 1 item, camp mat/thermarest as 1 item etc).

I guess everything else is a luxury.

It might be an interesting idea/game/challenge to work out a minimalist kit list for us all to try out for 1 or 2 nights and then report our experiences?

I think that list is very long for neccessary items.

I would take
A knife
An axe
A pan
2 tarps with string, one for the roof, one to lie on
Sleeping bag
Carry mat
Food
Water bottle
And something to light the fire with. Maybe matches in wax.


If I had to add to that, a gill net and another pan, and spare socks. And that's all I'd need.

[Lithril]

Ah but this thread isn't what we could do without but what we actually take, in the UK you would get arrested for the gill net. If you were in charge of a group with that kit you would most likely be classed as irresponsibe. Unless you were extremely good and the right scenario you may end up needing to be pulled out.

I'll get a current kit list up in the near future but my current dry kitlist for hill or group work is about 8kg dry weight, heavier than needed definately.

[Diligence]

This is a very interesting thread. As is always the case, the gear lists change with user's attitudes, skill levels and fitness level.

In early September, I went on a 3 day backpacking trip in the Rocky Mountains near Calgary. Each day consisted of: 10km hike with elevation gain of 650m, 12km with 650m gain/650m loss, 15km last day was descent. The elevation at the camps is about 2300m above sea level.

The weather was forecast to be cool, complete with sun, cloud, rain, sleet, snow, ice and more frozen sleet. Temperatures ranged from -5C to +12C. Tent was covered with ice in the mornings.

For gear, I carried the following:
fox 40 whistle (carried on person)
1/2 of a two man tent c/w with fly and ground sheet (shared the load with partner)
MSR Pocket Rocket and one cannister of fuel (partner carried a spare cannister)
1 liter pot with lid
600ml plastic mug
one plastic spoon
1 - 1 liter water bag (collapsible platypus style)
3 - lighters (mini style) - one on me, one in FAK, one in pack
1 - folding spyderco knife (delica)
Petzel Tikka headlamp
first aid kit (fits into a 10" x10" x 2" plastic sac) contains basic needs with some extras like salt packs for making saline irrigation fluid, steri-strips,lots of tape and a SAM splint (the best part of my FAK)
8'x6' homemade sil-tarp (didn't even take it out of my pack, but I brought it so that I could lounge under it if the rain was really bad)
hiking pole (it does save your knees on descent)
35' of 2.5mm perlon cord
20"x20"x1/2" ensolite pad (for lounging on - my luxury item)
3/4 length thermarest
Suunto Observer watch with barometer/altimeter and compass

Clothes:
polypropylene shirt
poly long johns (top & bottoms)
schoeller pants & jacket
down jacket
goretex jacket & pants
very robust gaiters
stout boots
one pair wool socks c/w liners ( I should have brought an extra pair - but it was the one thing I forgot)
fleece toque
baseball style sun cap (I was being optimistic...)
sun glasses
silk balaclava
-10C sleeping bag
goretex overmitts
2 pair fleece mitts (thick and thin)
small tube of SPF 45 sunblock (rays off the snow are intense and burn the insides of your nostrils and ears)
4 feet of toilet paper (if you need more than this in 3 days, you wouldn't be able to bring enough anyway)
polypropylene gloves (thin liner gloves)
------------and yes, I did wear ALL of this when sitting around in the evening. No fires permitted on this trip
----------- while hiking I layered on and off all day (including changing out gloves as my hands and head/neck are my way of regulating my heat)

food:
dehydrated meals (plus one full extra day of food)
energy snacks, tea bags and sugar (my luxury items)
assorted energy bars
on this trip, at the trailhead after the trip I only had a single energy bar remaining

Total weight of all gear (including a liter of water) - minus the food - was 26 pounds. I did not weigh my pack with food in it, but would estimate that I had about 6-7 pounds of food.

Seems like an awful lot of gear, but note that most of it is clothing. That's the biggest risk on this particular trip. It can go from fall conditions to full-on winter in 2 hours.

I did not double up on anything, except maybe bringing the tarp along. Everything got used with the exception of the FAK.

I used a 60 liter pack.

My partner carried an 80 liter pack, full to the brim. Total weight had to be around 50 pounds.....to each their own I guess.

Cheers,
D

[dommyracer]

The best thing I ever did was to get a down sleeping bag.

[Aaron]

When I first started sleeping out I was the worlds worst for bringing huge bergans full of tat that I had no prospect of using. Now I seem have whittled my kit down to the point where I can now get a weekends kit in a 35litre pack:

Main compartment (within the heavy duty polythene bag that my Sabre 35 came in)
- Down sleeping bag in compression sack (like Dommy says these save a lot of space)
- Swedish army billy can, contains bottle of meths, burner, washing up liquid and scourer
- Spare skids, socks, base layer and wooly hat in a polythene bag - bringing spare clothes are the one thing I have cut down on massively
- wash kit: liquid soap, toothbrush and past, foot powder, small bottle of shaving oil, disposable razor and mirror, all rolled up in a webtex collapseable bowl
-travel towel
-highlander bivi bag, rolls up small into the hood
- foil survival blanket - I currently use this instead of a sleeping mat, it does keep you warm but condensation seems to form between it and the bag, so may have to go back to a sleeping mat
- polythene tarp
- loo roll and folding trowel in bag
-waterproof trousers and poncho

Side pockets
-crusader mug with nato water bottle, personal first aid kit
-brew kit
- six boil in the bag rations

Top pocket
-head torch and spare batteries
- hand cleaning gel
-extra food; usually two bars chocolate, salami, fruit and nuts, cereal bars
-knife and DC4 sharpening stone
-waterproofed fire starting kit; matches and some tinder

Luxury: I bought a really nifty collapsable camp bed from the backpacking lite site mentioned above. This packs down really small and fits under the top flap of the sack. That way you stay out of the wet and dont have roots or stones poking in your back.

I have my silky arborists saw that I strap to the outside of the sack with a carabiner, and I also carry a US army canteen with a shoulder strap.

[Ogden]

Trying to reduce the weight of a 3 day trip can not be too difficult. What can happen in a weekend?
I find it difficult to reduce the weight of my winter-expedition-kit: Down (wet and cold after a week), Titanium-pot (needs more fuel), Fleece (smelly, clammy and not warm after a week) ...

[forrestdweller]

[You don´t need a loo roll, the woods are full of leafs and moss to use as loo paper.

ever tried to use gum tree leaves, pandanus or stinging nettle tree for this purpose???