Fun with atl-atl's

[Nyayo]

Dear all,

This w/e Curly (age 6 and 11/12) and I had a ridiculous amount of fun with atl-atls's. I'd made one previously, and a simple dart (bamboo with the plastic from a milk carton as the fletchings) and we took the dog for a walk and threw as we went. Even with very basic kit, Curly managed accurate shots of ~30 metres, and I managed several accurate (within 0.5m of a target spot) of ~50 metres. Today (Sunday) we each made our own (2nd gen) atl-atl's. Curly managed very well with a small plane, hand drill and crook knife to make his very own weapon. Having just got 'Primitive skills 1 & 2' books through the post yesterday, we made the new models a lot more technical, with hand straps etc. and multi-part darts. Hope to get some suitable stones off the beach this Easter to act as bannerstones. Will try to get some pictures of the 'Palaeo Boys' in action.

N

[rich59]

Sounds great fun. I will remember to keep off the path when you are coming the other way!

Did your dog do the fetching?

Gonna come on any altatl events this year?

Got more detail on those books?

[jerv]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Primitive-Te...4925671&sr=8-1

http://amazon.co.uk/o/ASIN/158685098...pf_rd_i=468294



so worth the money it's ridiculous

[Snufkin]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Primitive-Te...4925671&sr=8-1

http://amazon.co.uk/o/ASIN/158685098...pf_rd_i=468294



so worth the money it's ridiculous

Both brilliant books (actually compilations of articles from the SPT magazine).

[jerv]

we are looking for people to host atlatl events around the country there are quite a few guys throwing in the east midlands and I'm sure there are plenty up north. You just need access to some land and some targets (we can provide these) a basic accuracy competition can be done on 1 acre with ease.
There WILL be an atlatl comp in norfolk in september.


http://www.spearthroweruk.net/

[Nyayo]

I'll be visiting Norfolk this 1/2 term! look for me in the woods near Thetford(and duck if you hear a whoosing sound...!) I will now try to post a photo of the latest project under construction.


The top one (mine) is inspired by some of the atl-atls in the aforementioned books - will try it out asp and report back on thye sort of ranges achieved. The bottom one is Curly's (and is his first ever 'proper' wood project).

N

[jerv]

both atlatls look great. I am itching with unsolicited advice but will keep it to myself if you want to have fun experimenting.

[Nyayo]

Oh go on then..solicit away..

N

[bent-stick]

Your atl-atls are looking good...the nice thing is that they are not too demanding on time and materials so you can do a lot of experimenting.

The nearest planned event to you will be the Flag Fen archery and atl-atl competition near Peterborough on 2nd September.

We're doing a primitive crafts day the day before. There will be atl-atl and bow building. Other stuff is in the pipeline.

Unashamed advert over...

[jerv]

pics and other stuff can be found at
http://www.spearthroweruk.net/

there is an atlatl swap being organised by me more info can be found at:
http://p081.ezboard.com/fpaleoplanet...icID=461.topic

some of the people involved in it are quite big names (very big in the tiny, tiny world of atlatl) but it's all being done for fun so shouldn;t put you off joining in.

I'm only going to give one piece of advice and then several ideas.
the lower of your throwers looks like the handle curves downwards. Handles that curve towards the ground buck in the hand. Handles that are totally straight can be quite uncomfortable. I carve my handles so they gently curve upwards. Just rounding them off should work though.
[IMG][/IMG]
awful photo!
if you carve your handles like that they will do well with a grip of somesorts (Jute and leather in pics) as they can fly out of your hand.
I'm not such a fan of the split loop atlatls but I have heard that used with a split finger grip they can help prevent "atlatl elbow"
here's another thing I find awkward but lots' say is great the atlat rest
[IMG][/IMG]
finally an inspirational photo of some ice age replicas.[IMG][IMG][/IMG] [/IMG]

[Nyayo]

Nice Pics, jerv - I love those Ice Age jobs! Point taken on the handles, although bear in mind that the lower one was made by six-year old (and the making was more important than the final weapon)! We tried wrapped jute handles, but ended up holding little tubes of jute having lost dart and atlatl together, hence the split finger straps!

I notice that these are all fairly thick (and presumable inflexible?). My next version was going to be thinner (~7mm), longer (~60cm) and tapering towards the spur (sort of Basketmaker stylee). What's your take on flexible vs stiff? Some of the books mention tillering and other construction methods from bowying, but this seems confined to the American style of throwers.

I tried the upper one in the picture and got a 60m plus throw, with a crosswind, using the split finger hold, and a bamboo/birch dart. I'm working on getting the dog to fetch the darts without crunching them or getting shot, but since he's a springer this should be no problem........(!)

N

[Biddlesby]

Hey would love to try to make one of these. What design do you reckon is the most effective and easy to start off with? Any tips?

I'm off to search the forums!

Found out this:
[QUOTE]
Interestingly, the number pi is found for optimum performance in the Relationship between Atlatl length and dart length.
[\QUOTE]

As a mathematician this sounds interesting! If anybody knows any good sites about the physics of an atlatl I'd be interested to read it .

[jerv]

easiest atlatl : stick
next easiest branch with carved spur.
the atlatl is easy it's the dart thats tricky

http://www.thudscave.com/npaa/index.htm
great site
http://www.worldatlatl.org/Index.html
excellent
if you want physics and maths the atlatl is the weapon for you. Look at all the phds and proffesors in the WAA. Rich 59 is a good atlatler and knows far more about the science of the weapon than I do, he also has a good aiming method.
I taper all my atlatls to make the tip as fast as possible like a bow limb.
I have a few flexible throwers and like using them but I must confess to not being able to discern any noticable difference in performance. I think the handle and material of the thrower are the most important points. A friend of mione made a poplar atlatl not much thicker than 12mm and darts zip off it. It's just a simple design but very effective.
I got my highest ever ISAC (55 ) with a flexy thrower however. I'm atlatling quite a bit at the moment as we are having a few events soon and I am off to france to join in a big european atlatl event. going to events is a great way to increase your knowledge (if not your skill).
Niall
P.S. why are there so many atlatl people in norfolk?

[Nyayo]

We found the quickest design was a peeled and planed birch wand, about 2cm thick and 40cm long, with a hole drilled in one end with a small, carved peg inserted and fixed with wood glue. The dart was a bamboo garden cane with gaffer tape fletchings. Total construction time was under 30 mins, and we managed throws of over 30m.

Any stick chuckers up North, or is it just me, the boy and a dog?
N

[rich59]

Hey would love to try to make one of these. What design do you reckon is the most effective and easy to start off with? Any tips?

I'm off to search the forums!

Found out this:
Interestingly, the number pi is found for optimum performance in the Relationship between Atlatl length and dart length.

As a mathematician this sounds interesting! If anybody knows any good sites about the physics of an atlatl I'd be interested to read it .

Ooooh, it was the maths that got me into atlatling. I don't believe all the maths stuff on the net and have come up with some of my own analysis about the release of the dart that I could bore you with some time. The pi thing is interesting but I suspect cant be taken to any decimal places. Why pi do you think?

[jerv]

Rich, what did you come up with for the atlatl release (it's safe to ask you here as certain Americans won't start crying if you argue with them). I've got lot's of photos and videos of darts being released and I can't find one that shows the dart dipping first.

[rich59]

Well, I am now thinking that short, stiff darts behave differently from long flexible ones. The short ones may behave as the conventional idea of a single bend.



But the longer ones may get a double bend



This is seen in some pictures.

The double bend causes the dart to very rapidly straighten and kick off the atlatl.

[Biddlesby]

Ooooh, it was the maths that got me into atlatling. I don't believe all the maths stuff on the net and have come up with some of my own analysis about the release of the dart that I could bore you with some time. The pi thing is interesting but I suspect cant be taken to any decimal places. Why pi do you think?

Don't worry about boring me - it'd take a few hours.

Pi is the ratio of a circle's circumference to diameter, and the atlatl seems to be like a chord with the dart curved, I'm guessing that's something to do with it. I have not come across forces being applied to the end of flexible rods in my academic career, and how those rods will bend, but I'm sure by looking at the dart as a uniform flexible rod, there will be an equation to describe the curve of the shaft. Perhaps then it may become more obvious why pi.

So, with that easiest 'wand' design, the peg is to hold the end of the dart? I am kind of clueless as to how to build these things. Are the loops there to put your fingers in.

[Exbomz]

[IMG][/IMG]
finally an inspirational photo of some ice age replicas.[IMG][IMG][/IMG] [/IMG]

I love the carved hooks. I had been planning on making one of the ibex 'having a poo' but have been struggling to find a good enough image to copy. Can you point me towards a good one?

Cheers

[jerv]

exbomz do you know there is an atlatl event going on up in buxted in may?
I've seen a cast of one of the ibex throwers it was really thin it would be tricky making one from anything other than reindeer antler.
[IMG][/IMG]

not the best of the ibex throwers. If you can turn out good ones I may be interested in commissioning one from you.
I like this one it's mad!
[IMG][/IMG]

I will post a "tutorial" on how to make a good thrower tommorrow

read this
http://users.skynet.be/fa057790/pictures/index_7.htm

[Exbomz]

Thanks for the tremendous images. I have 2 reindeer antler crowns ready (one as a backup!) but before putting tool to antler, wanted to ensure that I had sufficient detail. It was one of those things where I could not re-find the orignal images I saw which inspired me to start with. Now I have them a-plenty.

As to the event, no. Have you got a link?

When I get it finished, I will post a piccy.

Cheers

[Biddlesby]

Made my first atlatl. Willow wands with gaffa tape fletchings (cheers Nyayo). I wrapped wire around the ends to provide the mass. Construction time say 20 mins - even with my shoddy efforts they go a great distance! I am amazed at how accurate it is, and how much range it has. I'm looking forward to making a more refined version.



Incidently, if anybody has any ideas for better fletchings or masses then I'd be glad to give them a go.

[jerv]

here's the ;link for the event

http://www.spearthroweruk.net/events.aspx

PM me for further info or if you'd like to come and practice a few ISACs(it's muich harder than it seems) one weekend.
fletching ideas I posted something about making darts which had two whole length feathers as fletchings. I've also used 1 feather and squirrel tails. Rich 59 used pieces of cloth tied to the ends of the darts.
mass at the end. You could try an archery point. Antler and wood are what I use but they take a while to make. If the dart is natural you could just use the natural taper of the shaft to weight the end, point and fire harden . I throw 7' pine dowels with no points at all and they work absolutely fine (they are well fletched with 3 full length helicals however.)

[rich59]

Fletchings are too technical for me at the moment. Gaffer tape is too modern. I tried with leaves and bark tied or glued on a couple of times. It is the wrong time of year to collect some feathers from the local butcher.

But I rapidly found that just tying a bit of cloth to the back end with a little string was all I needed to slow the back end down a bit and steady the flight.

Also I practice a lot without any fletchings or cloth at all. It helps the technique to be able to throw it true without any.
I am also getting OK at straightening cane with a little heat.

[bent-stick]

This is a single duck feather tied in with linen,,,the sinew came undone in the rain.

[Nyayo]

I'm still tweaking the atlatl in the picture - have thinned it down so the hook end is smaller (and thus faster) and made the shaft thinner (and slightly flexible). Heavy darts now going 60m plus, and lighter darts further. Someone was asking what the thongs are for. Here's a picture (and a handy shot of the plastic fletchings - I would prefer feather, put can't get hold of any at the mo.)

This is the so-called 'split finger grip' and shows how you use the leather things to hold the thrower steady, and prevent it from flying out of your hand at the same time as the dart! I hope for more testing this week (Easter holz).

N

[jerv]

it's great fun throwing the darts as far as possible just don;t forget to practice throwing the thing accurately. I like the look of the atlatl grip your dart looks really thick you must have strong arms to get it out 60m.