S30V or D2

[leon-1]

Right guys I am currently ordering a Gene Ingram Knife. Gene has given me the choice of 4 steels, I have narrowed it down to a choice of D2 or S30V.

There is a thread on British Blades which I am also enquiring on, but I would like to hear from the bushcraft guys as well, what do you think would be better for a bushcraft knife.

I already know the quality of Gene's work owning one of his knives, but I know nothing of S30V.

Input from the chief metallurgist to the King of Spain (Hoodoo) would be appreciated :-D .

[Hoodoo]

I only have one knife in S30V but it's a dandy. So far, I really like the stuff. I have one coming from Gene in S30V. Everything I've ever heard about S30V has been positive. D2 is great stuff as well so I realize it's a tough choice. But I think if you want true stainless, S30V is the better route.

King of Spain? :shock: When do I get my royalties? :-D

[leon-1]

King of Spain? :shock: When do I get my royalties? :-D

Hopefully very soon :-D . Thanks for getting on so soon.

Have we got any other takers? Other users that use both D2 and S30V.

[sargey]

i've got one knife in each. the D2 tool doesn't get used a massive amount. but i really really like S30V, which is good, 'cause i have a custom woodlore clone (OSF) on order in S30V 8-)

but as to which is the better for a buscrafty knife, i couldn't honestly say.

cheers, and.

[Andy]

i've got one knife in each. the D2 tool doesn't get used a massive amount. but i really really like S30V, which is good, 'cause i have a custom woodlore clone (OSF) on order in S30V 8-)

but as to which is the better for a buscrafty knife, i couldn't honestly say.

cheers, and.

wont that be a pain to sharpen with the large bevel?

[tenbears10]

I only have experience of D2 but I am very pleased with it. It is relatively new so I haven't done much sharpening yet. That said it is holding a really goods edge even after a fair bit of work.

So D2 gets my vote but mainly through lack of experience of S30V.

Good luck choosing.

Bill

[Adi007]

i've got one knife in each. the D2 tool doesn't get used a massive amount. but i really really like S30V, which is good, 'cause i have a custom woodlore clone (OSF) on order in S30V 8-)

but as to which is the better for a buscrafty knife, i couldn't honestly say.

cheers, and.

wont that be a pain to sharpen with the large bevel?

A huge pain methinks!

[sargey]

wont that be a pain to sharpen with the large bevel?

A huge pain methinks!

nope, twill be but a doddle. :roll: 8-)

cheers, and.

[Andy]

from what I've heard you need as belt grinder to sharpen it

[Adi007]

wont that be a pain to sharpen with the large bevel?

A huge pain methinks!

nope, twill be but a doddle. :roll: 8-)

cheers, and.

Yeah, just sharpen it with your lightsaber!!!! :wink:

[Martyn]

wont that be a pain to sharpen with the large bevel?

A huge pain methinks!

nope, twill be but a doddle. :roll: 8-)

cheers, and.

I know what you mean, those 3 horse power belt-grinders make light work of it.

[Martyn]

Actually, it's not as "left field" as it sounds. If most of your trips are 3 days or less, then you could probably get away without sharpening it al all. The once home, break out your lansky sharpening system with DMT hones and no problem. If you do need to touch it up in the field though, a DC4 should work well.

I think you do need DMT hones though.

[leon-1]

cheers guys, from what I have been told so far both are equally difficult to sharpen, already having had/having and used knives in D2 I know what they are like to sharpen, but the fact that they hold an edge like Sargey's lightsaber makes the effort worth it.

Hoodoo and Martyn have belief in S30V and from what I have read Chris Reeve has started to make knives in it. What I need to know is (a) does it hold an edge to the same level as D2 and (b) are its stainless and rust resistant qualities better than that of D2 (not difficult).

I have every intention of looking after this knife, but you never know what may happen. The 2 major points above are very important for a bushcraft knife if you are not using it every day as I would like.

All points of veiw are appreciated, so keep them coming in

and thanks,

Leon. :-D

[Martyn]

D2 is a good tool steel, no doubt. It's pretty universal and bog standard in composition. It makes good knives, it's tough, hard as hell and semi-stainless, with fab edge retention.

CPM S30v is a crucible steel (CPM = Crucible Particle Metallurgy), and is a custon steel formulated specifically for the high end custom/specialist blade manufacture. Crucible steels have had a good reputation for a long time, but S30v recieved fabulous reviews since it's launch.

Read the data sheets...

http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS30Vv4b.pdf

http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/S30Vvs440C3.pdf

I have a chris Reeve Sebenza made from S30v and it's superb. I also have a fixed blade made from D2, of the two, I prefer S30v and yes, it's corrosion resistance is superior to D2 - though I'm not sure when that would be much of an issue.

I think much of it boils down to personal taste.

Though S30v is the darling steel of the knife world at the moment - resale *might* be easier/better with an S30v blade.

[The General]

If you look at the results that custom makers like Jerry Hossom are getting with S30V we are seeing a stainless steel that has the kind of toughness that has not been seen before in a stainless steel.

S30V has better wear resistance, better stain resistance and significantly better toughness than D2. On the plus side it is also more simple to sharpen.

http://www.knifeforums.com/ubbthread...31&fpart=1

http://www.knifeforums.com/ubbthread...o=&fpart=1


D2 is good, S30V is better.

[leon-1]

Cheers Martyn, that pretty much hits the nail on the head, this is exactly the feedback that I was after, not just statistics, but actual experience makes the moment. I need the data anyway, but two of the people that I really respect for thier knowledge have both said the same thing.

Although the poll is up for seven days, I will probably order at work tomorrow night/Tuesday morning.

What I wanted is the experienced view as well as the initial feel as much as the data.

Probably terrible English, but at the moment I am not overly worried about that.

Once I have the knife I will look at doing a review after a few months of using it, then follow up after about a year. This should give a better sort of idea for anyone that is thinking about buying from Gene as well as the materials involved.

Once I have got the order through I will put the spec for the knife up to view.

[The General]

To quote Jerry Hossom directly

"Do you really think that Crucible Steel created a high performance particle mettalurgy steel that was specifically designed to have the same toughness as A2 and settled for something that's no tougher than most stalnless knife steels on the market? Why would they bother? Why would ALL the testing by literally dozens of knifemakers prove that steel is the toughest stainless they've ever seen? Why would so many of the major knife companies adopt the steel for their highest performance knives? Why would many of the military special operations forces (including Marine Special Operations and Army Special Forces) specify S30V for their knives? All are using it despite the fact that it's the most difficult steel to work and finish that any of us have ever seen. We hate it, but it's the best stainless knife steel there is. Period.

This doesn't come from books, online charts or theory; it has been learned from exhaustive testing by knifemaking and knife using professionals.

Let me add one more thing, because this is beginning to [Colorful Enunciation] me off. I can work with any steel I want. If I had the slightest idea S30V wasn't a whole lot better than 154CM/ATS-34 I damned for wouldn't use it. It costs me money to use it, because it takes me a WHOLE lot longer to make a knife in it. If the customer doesn't need stainless I prefer to use CPM-3V which is a whole lot tougher than most anything. The only reason I have for using either steel is because I think they're the best of their kind. Am I selling steels? No, I'd sure as hell rather use something that's easier to work. The fact is, I'm not even trying to sell knives. I haven't taken orders in well over a year and won't again for at least another year, so what is my motivation for saying one steel or another it best? Because I and a lot of other knife professionals think it is"

This was as a result of another person trying to claim S30V was not all its cracked up to be...

[leon-1]

Thanks Also to the General, I enjoyed the read on steels that you did. Between Hoodoo, The General and Martyn I think that I have enough information on this, if anyone else has any comments they wish to add then please feel welcome.

On what I have recieved so far I will have to change my initial feeling on D2 and go for a knife made from S30V.

My thanks to everyone so far and subsequent. With any luck this will come in handy for others at a later date when trying to make up thier minds on steels.

[Martyn]

Thanks Also to the General, I enjoyed the read on steels that you did. Between Hoodoo, The General and Martyn I think that I have enough information on this, if anyone else has any comments they wish to add then please feel welcome.

On what I have recieved so far I will have to change my initial feeling on D2 and go for a knife made from S30V.

My thanks to everyone so far and subsequent. With any luck this will come in handy for others at a later date when trying to make up thier minds on steels.

I think it's important to remember that things can go a bit crazy when knife nuts start talking metalurgy on forums. It can get more than a little obsessive. All of the steels mentioned are high end, superbly performing steels. Go for the one you think will best suit your tates, but any one of them will make an outstanding knife and they will probably all suit your needs. Mostly down to individual taste at the end of the day I think. :wink:

[The General]

Thanks Also to the General, I enjoyed the read on steels that you did. Between Hoodoo, The General and Martyn I think that I have enough information on this, if anyone else has any comments they wish to add then please feel welcome.

On what I have recieved so far I will have to change my initial feeling on D2 and go for a knife made from S30V.

My thanks to everyone so far and subsequent. With any luck this will come in handy for others at a later date when trying to make up thier minds on steels.

I think it's important to remember that things can go a bit crazy when knife nuts start talking metalurgy on forums. It can get more than a little obsessive. All of the steels mentioned are high end, superbly performing steels. Go for the one you think will best suit your tates, but any one of them will make an outstanding knife and they will probably all suit your needs. Mostly down to individual taste at the end of the day I think. :wink:

Very true, but S30V is the better choice of course! :wink:

[ChrisKavanaugh]

One survival knife tenet used to be a relatively soft RC for easy field sharpening. I found in arctic survival school the exact opposite. When your cold and tired, trying to put a new edge with at best the miserable excuse for a honing stone of a Camillus/Ontario survival knife is a nightmare. Another feature from a strictly survival standpoint should be remembered. If you need to produce sparks and somehow have been reduced to only your knife ( that favourite daydream of would be Rambo's) then a high carbon, high RC knife is necessary. We are recreating the same system as a flintlock firearm. The flint is igniting minute particles of carbon FROM THE KNIFE. This is in reverse from the knife igniting particles of our metal matches. Personally, I'd love a S/S knife with a high carbon laminate spine inlay, much like the brass edge catcher on a Bowie fighting knife. Having said that, it will now be the unique brainchild of posters on every knife and outdoor forum and appear in 5 knife catalogs with the inevitable charge,countercharge of infringement.

[Martyn]

Very true, but S30V is the better choice of course! :wink:

LOL - of course Wayne. :-D

Kind of like asking which is the better F1 car, a mclaren or a ferrari.

The answer is ferrari of course, but I'd crap my pants driving either.

[leon-1]

My thanks, I must admit that I love D2, but with the current reviews of S30V I am more than a little curious.

All of the steels that Gene offers are high end and it does make you wonder why he offers this one in place of others when it is quite new.

I am willing to take a risk with this and the subsequent result of it, but to be honest I think that I will recieve a well crafted tool which will do the job required.

In the end it is my choice and if I am wrong it is my fault alone. The advice given is always appreciated and will not be taken lightly. :-D

[Martyn]

All of the steels that Gene offers are high end and it does make you wonder why he offers this one in place of others when it is quite new.

Been around for a few years mate. :wink:

[leon-1]

Yep, but I have been out of it for quite a few (13 at least, not prison, the army). Now I am trying to get back into things.

[The General]

To be honest both are great steels and either will be just fine. D2 is proven, but S30V is just better!

Either will prove great in use, though i find D2 to be a ruster living next to the sea. S30V does not seem as prone...

[The General]

Very true, but S30V is the better choice of course! :wink:

LOL - of course Wayne. :-D

Kind of like asking which is the better F1 car, a mclaren or a ferrari.

The answer is ferrari of course, but I'd crap my pants driving either.

Yeh! High end is high end for sure! :-)

[Martyn]

Yep, but I have been out of it for quite a few (13 at least, not prison, the army). Now I am trying to get back into things.

Cool.

Though in fairness, although S30v has been around a while, because of it's expense and difficulty in working, it's only just starting to find it's way into production knives. Prior to this, it has had a good history with high end custom knife makers. The (quality) production boys have started to use S30v - probably because of demand filtering through from the custom market. Chris Reeve dropped BG42 in favour of S30v a couple of years ago now. It's cropping up more and more in the production market, in spite of it's inherrant difficulties in the manufacturing process.

You wont be dissapointed.

[leon-1]

Wayne I can appreciate that, I live in Paignton, lovely, near the sea and I have seen things that are stainless rust down here.

Martyn, all points that you have raised are valid, but in the end there have been three people that know about this that have replied (Including yourself) and they all say the same thing.

I will go with S30V, I place the order tomorrow since I don't want to wait and don't want to keep Gene waiting too long. :-D

[Martyn]

Martyn, all points that you have raised are valid, but in the end there have been three people that know about this that have replied (Including yourself) and they all say the same thing.

LOL, just a keen amature here, but Hoodoo has an attic FULL of knives. I think you can at least take his comments to the bank.

Be sure and let us know your impressions when you get it.