looks like hard work!

[jon r]

take a look at this pic!

http://www.vannattabros.com/adospics/22fir.jpg

[sharp88]

a great redwood i presume?

[torjusg]

Horrible to chop such trees down.

[JonnyP]

Horrible to chop such trees down.

My thought as well....

[bilko]

Don't know what they are so smug about, a coast redwood can live to 2500 years old so they just hacked their way through a millenium of growth for what?

[John Fenna]

Very Sad to see such destruction - but what axes eh!

[British Red]

To be fair to the site in question it is a historical site listing the history of forestry. It is also necessary to fell even the great giants once in a while (where thay have died or are becoming unsafe and may fall and take many other trees with them). In these days where we burn too much fossil fuel, I look forward to the return of sympathetic woodland managament and, I hope, re-planting broadleaf woods. Even these though need to be managed. This can be done without the horrors of "clear felling" - as guys like redflex can attest

Red

[jojo]

How on earth did nature manage before we humans turned up on the scene? Can you imagine that, having no one to manage and still doing well, thank you very much. Those giants lived for 2500 years and nobody to manage them.....
Sorry, I have a bee in my bonnet about this human attitude that we MUST manage nature. We need to learn to manage ourselves, our greed, and our numbers first before its too late for us and what is left of nature

[BOD]

Values were different then and one can hardly blame the axe men as they were simply instruments of a society's perceived needs at the time.

Lets not judge the past with today's values until we are certain that the present (and ourselves) can pass scrutiny by the values we claim to uphold.

[Dougster]

I agree that it is a shame, but I don't agree that we should judge retrospectively by our modern standards.

These guys had a hard life, and some Christians believed God gave them the world to use. They were surrounded - particularly in the new world - with an abundance of nature. It is a little odd that they decided to chop down something so difficult, but I'm glad they are now protected.

[Spikey DaPikey]

Values were different then and one can hardly blame the axe men as they were simply instruments of a society's perceived needs at the time.

Lets not judge the past with today's values until we are certain that the present (and ourselves) can pass scrutiny by the values we claim to uphold.

Very well said.

[BorderReiver]

Just wondering what would have happened if the tree decided to fall the "wrong" way.

[falling rain]

Values were different then and one can hardly blame the axe men as they were simply instruments of a society's perceived needs at the time.

Lets not judge the past with today's values until we are certain that the present (and ourselves) can pass scrutiny by the values we claim to uphold.

Well said Bod I agree entirely.
Look at those horrible photos of the big white game hunters posing on top of their tigers, elephants and buffalos etc. It's almost perverse but that's what they did in those days. Grey Owl was such a leading light in conservation and has helped to protect animals that need protection as we do nowadays thankfully.

[Dougster]

Looking at that picture reminded me of the large stone in the centre of the circle at Avebury. When Mortimer Wheeler lifted it back in place there was a flat medieval man underneath.

It doesn't look like this has been cut deep enough to have a similar outcome though!

[pothunter]

OK, I can accept the different values etc. but what to do with when its been felled? its got to be cut into managable pieces and taken to the mill, how long did it take to proccess one of these monsters, the felling must have taken days!

[British Red]

How on earth did nature manage before we humans turned up on the scene? Can you imagine that, having no one to manage and still doing well, thank you very much. Those giants lived for 2500 years and nobody to manage them.....
Sorry, I have a bee in my bonnet about this human attitude that we MUST manage nature. We need to learn to manage ourselves, our greed, and our numbers first before its too late for us and what is left of nature

Jojo,

Sadly, in the UK and many other countries, there is no truly wild space left. The pressures on the land have been, for millenia, too great to permit it. Equally sadly, but hopefully more reversibly, in the 20th century, the trend was towards the industrialisation of woodland management (single species plantation, clear felling, pesticide use etc.). These woodland "deserts" did not have sufficient biodiversity to support birds or animals in the way that mixed woodland did. Happily now, people are realising that it is quite possible to co-exist with woodland and such skills as coppicing, local charcoal burning, craft furniture etc. are resurgent.

I don't believe the "Wild Wood" will return to the UK shores, but well managed woodland can (and happily now does in some areas) support far more interests and wildlife than the horrible connifer plantations of 40 years ago. We musn't forget however that the owners must still be allowed to harvest that wood. They own the land and that is their right.

The alternative of course is to purchase ones own woodland and do with it as one chooses. However as someone wisely stated once, evening burning dead wood destroys the natural habitat of the insect life that are a vital part of woodland ecosystems. Unless any of us are willing to stay out of the woods altogether (which is probably the best thing we can do for them), then as in so much in life, its a question of balance

Red

[PhilParry]

Call my dark humour sick but I can just imagine a news story about a tree falling the wrong way on two "woodchippers" and squidging them like a pancake...


Sorry! Just made me chuckle thinking that the tree might just bite back! *snigger*





Phil

[gregorach]

OK, I can accept the different values etc. but what to do with when its been felled? its got to be cut into managable pieces and taken to the mill, how long did it take to proccess one of these monsters, the felling must have taken days!

Well, I believe the old-fashioned approach to felling really big trees was to go through a slope weakening all the trees, then fell one carefully-chosen one at the top of the slope - the domino effect then takes care of the rest. Then you get a whole bunch of guys limbing them, a bunch of horse teams dragging them, and float them off downriver the sawmill.

There were many things that needed really big trees. Before the advent of the steel-frame building, the size you could build to was pretty much limited by the size of timber you could get. Also, all those tall ships needed big trees to provide tall masts.

Sure, it looks nasty from a modern perspective. But there's plenty of even nastier stuff that we're still doing - mountaintop removal mining, large scale open-cast mining, clearing of the rainforests to grow soya or palm oil... At least back then they had to put so much effort into taking the trees that they made sure to use 'em - these days we just burn 'em where they stand. Ever seen the result of a clear-cut operation, even here in the UK? What a mess!

And no matter what you think of it, I think you have to respect anyone who made a living felling really big trees without any power tools...

[gregorach]

Call my dark humour sick but I can just imagine a news story about a tree falling the wrong way on two "woodchippers" and squidging them like a pancake...


Sorry! Just made me chuckle thinking that the tree might just bite back! *snigger*





Phil

Yeah, I'd have to call that sick. Being a lumberjack back was (and probably still is) a pretty dangerous job - plenty of guys did get squashed, or killed by kick-backs. It's no more funny than all the navvies who got killed by rockfall and blasting accidents. Working their short, miserable lives away for "a dollar a day and a place for my head" while the big name engineers, timber barons, and mill owners made a fortune without ever getting their hands dirty. And it's still happening.

Sorry, that'll be my politics starting to show through...

[bilko]

Values were different then and one can hardly blame the axe men as they were simply instruments of a society's perceived needs at the time.

Lets not judge the past with today's values until we are certain that the present (and ourselves) can pass scrutiny by the values we claim to uphold.

That took me clean by suprise.
How very true.

[jojo]

British Red. Yes, I know, you are quite right of course. What gets me is that we humans always can justify, find an excuse to, everything that we do and find a good reason to take whatever we want. there is no other species to keep our greed under check, is there I think there are huge differences between what is needed and what is wanted. Most people it seems, dont know or don't want to know, which is worse, the difference between the two. I just worry, I suppose as to what the world will be like in the near future for my children.
I dislike more and more what urban life is like and likely to become and find it hard to look on at all the destruction all around us, more houses, more roads, more cars...Where is it going to end