Old Jimbo's Axe??

**Shinken** · 10-12-2006, 06:50

I have seen the pictures of your mini Axe Old Jimbo (the little one that you split the big log with)

Is this the one? http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...sfile=1&jump=0

**OldJimbo** · 10-12-2006, 07:08

Yep - that's the one, but they're $20 US over here.
Firstly the bad news is that Vaughan decided to start grinding them thin. That would seem great, but Mike Stewart had LOTS of problems, finding very uneven tempering. So forget the new thin ones, but old ones are a good basis for a cheap and super tiny axe.
The old ones have a thick blade and a silly steep ground on bevel. It takes lots of work to put one into shape. I got some pics while I was grinding one to send to Bogdan a while back. Hours of work with grinders and there was still LOTS of handwork left for him to do.
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/vaughangrind.html

**OldJimbo** · 10-12-2006, 07:34

Three tiny hatchets - old trapper's hatchet, Vaughan, GB mini:

Detail of Vaughan splitting wood that everyting else had failed on:

Same wood from further back:

But remember that it splits well because of lots of work on bevels and gentle ramp. And you can only have a gentle ramp with a tiny hatchet, if you have a small eye, so head/handle connection is fragile.

The Fiskars worked on this:

but not on this:

which you'll recognize as chunk being split by Vaughan. The more obtuse bevel of Fiskars simply couldn't be pounded in with anything. The Vaughan went in easily. The shocker was that my favorite Norlund didn't do any better. So I began to grind that and polish it up properly...

**Shinken** · 10-12-2006, 09:43

Thats a bummer then, i will have to continue my search!

I think i may look into a Wetterlings!

Thanks for that OldJimbo

**British Red** · 10-12-2006, 10:15

Do you have a view on this one Jimbo?

http://www.knivesofalaska.com/catalo...ws&cat=Hatchet

Someone sent me a link to it after I ordered the wetterlings - looked interesting though. Perhaps it might do for Shinken?

Red

**Shinken** · 10-12-2006, 10:56

Looks like it has an ingenious way of lightening it up!

**Shinken** · 10-12-2006, 10:59

Its a bit more expensive than i am looking for BR.

Mid you i will probably end up with a GB mini.

I have tried other Axes and i always seem to end up using my GB axes for some reason

**jojo** · 10-12-2006, 16:59

http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/2/p...Axe-480147.htm
Has anyone got experience of using this type of japanese axe? I have used japanese tools and found them really good, especially the hand saws, in fact, I don't use anything else nowadays, except the band saw

, but I am thinking of getting one of these.

**OldJimbo** · 10-12-2006, 18:30

I've wondered about the Knives of Alaska axe - but so far I haven't been able to find any reviews of it. I'd like to see an end on view before risking the money because that Kelly perfect axe head design usually has fairly obtuse bevels. Heavy grinding means you have to grind out the side concaves, too - lots of work. But it could be great as lots of their designs are. With 12oz head, that hatchet will come out to the same weight in total as GB Wildlife, and that with longer handle will obviously do more work more easily. Longer handles win, simple as that.

The Japanese bearded axe will have obtuse bevels - all bearded axes have to, because otherwise acute bevels would follow grain of wood and drag your fingers down to the splinters. It's a specialized wood shaping axe as opposed to general purpose, so it wouldn't work well in chopping and splitting. That being said, shaping wood with an axe is mega-whittling and a heck of a lot of fun! I mostly use old broad hatchet or hewing heads off ebay, but I have a GB carver's axe. I also have more driftwood for whittling than a person would know what to do with... Fun!

As much as I like tiny hatchets having lots more than I've shown, including Craftsman, Walters, etc - those all took lots of work to set up. The GB and Wetterlings can be fixed up with hand tools. I wasn't joking about the hours of grinding, because despite stuff like angle grinders a person has to work slowly to keep the temper.

**British Red** · 10-12-2006, 18:44

Originally Posted by OldJimbo

I've wondered about the Knives of Alaska axe - but so far I haven't been able to find any reviews of it. I'd like to see an end on view before risking the money because that Kelly perfect axe head design usually has fairly obtuse bevels. Heavy grinding means you have to grind out the side concaves, too - lots of work. But it could be great as lots of their designs are. With 12oz head, that hatchet will come out to the same weight in total as GB Wildlife, and that with longer handle will obviously do more work more easily. Longer handles win, simple as that.

The Japanese bearded axe will have obtuse bevels - all bearded axes have to, because otherwise acute bevels would follow grain of wood and drag your fingers down to the splinters. It's a specialized wood shaping axe as opposed to general purpose, so it wouldn't work well in chopping and splitting. That being said, shaping wood with an axe is mega-whittling and a heck of a lot of fun! I mostly use old broad hatchet or hewing heads off ebay, but I have a GB carver's axe. I also have more driftwood for whittling than a person would know what to do with... Fun!

As much as I like tiny hatchets having lots more than I've shown, including Craftsman, Walters, etc - those all took lots of work to set up. The GB and Wetterlings can be fixed up with hand tools. I wasn't joking about the hours of grinding, because despite stuff like angle grinders a person has to work slowly to keep the temper.

Jimbo,

The Wetterlings is fixed up just fine and will become part of a project Singteck and I are working on (a full sized possibles bag in leather). Its also coming to the "shiver camp" in February (where, strangely, much wood gets chopped

). Although a larger axe is also coming and, given the storm damage and a few downed trees to deal with the "woddcutters pal" (aka the big Husqy

)

Red

**OldJimbo** · 11-12-2006, 06:07

I thought you were testing those bowsaws, not relaxing behind a chainsaw!

**Shinken** · 11-12-2006, 06:07

I have now set my heart on a GB mini.

I have a GB sfa a Wetterlings hunter and a GB wildlife hatchet (plus another 3 various axes) So i think the GB mini will go with my other GB's!

I have yet to find axes of the same quality and balence as my GB's so maybe the extra $ will be worth it. Well thats what i am sticking with because i want one............ no NEED one

**OldJimbo** · 11-12-2006, 15:02

The GB axes are good value when you consider the premium wood handles and handwork involved. While a regular wood handle goes for $15-20 here, premium wood goes for several times that. And you can hone one by hand and go out and use it. No hours of grinding involved!

**Shinken** · 11-12-2006, 15:27

I think you have finally convinced me there Jimbo!

**OldJimbo** · 11-12-2006, 15:44

While I often use something other than GB's, I sure have a lot of time and effort invested into actually making those other axes work. When Mike Stewart ground up a bunch of Vaughans, lots of people complained about the price - but I figured he was undercharging.

**oetzi** · 11-12-2006, 16:05

I am not that sure any more about the quality of GB´s handles. The three I own since a couple of years are more or less good, which means:
the grain deviates a maximum of 45 degree from vertical,
the edge rests somewhere on its middle third when laid on a table lenghtwise with the butt rest on the table, too,
the edge is within +/- 5mm of the knob when loking straight along the handle.
But now I will not do mailorder with any GB!
Because this year we stocked GB in the outdoor shop where I work.
Of the ca. fifteen axes we got and sold, myself I would have bought less than five. The reason was the orientation of the grain and the amount of heartwood in the handle. The former was sometimes worse than stated above and with the latter, well, three out of four of our splitting axes had a handle with 50-100% heartwood.
A hunters axe was ordered by me with the shipment of our axes and I was lucky with it. Apart from a quite big gap between poll and handle its ok. For the difference in price between wholesale and retail I will happily fill the gap with the glue I use when making stick-tang knives.
Recently I started using Fiskars axes. Their prices are really good and the handles dont transmitt more shock than a GB. And with heavy re-working of the blade, making them much slimmer, they chop good, too. I dont know why Fiskars decided to fabricate normal axes with the head of a splitting axe, it doesnt make any sense.
I have only one Wetterlings, a LHA, the handle´s wood had a better orientation than the above mentioned GB´s, but was hung even worse. Still ok for the lower price.
Next week I visit a large outdoor shop in the next city, who usually stocks 10-20 GB´s. I will have a close look at all of them.

**mrostov** · 12-12-2006, 14:21

Myself, I'm still weighing the merits of my two favorite hatchets.

One is an old Craftsman 3" one piece with a rubber handle and a nail pulling notch that I think was made in the 1960's by Estwing. That thing is the epitome of indestructable.

The other is an old Norlund 3" Hudson bay style made who knows when. I reconditioned the head and reprofiled the bit, but I probably should rehandle it. I like how it's a tad easier to hold like an ulu knife and it keeps an edge extremely well. Just to prove a point to some people, I prepared dinner just using it as the knife, even peeling and slicing the potatoes.

One of my projects is a severely mistreated axe I acquired and I'm going to refurbish. The poll is peened over, the edge is severely dulled and blunted, the handle is trashed from being left set outside for years. It's an old 4" bit Hudson bay style Norlund. I'm having some trouble finding a new handle that will fit it. It originally had a handle that was about 18" or 19". All in all, the length with the width of the bit it looks to be a promising package. If my 3" Norland is any indicator as to what this thing has the potential of being, it should be an extremely neat axe.

Interesting note on those Vaughan hatchets. I've looked everywhere and those particular hatchets seem to be scarce here in the States. Bark River, IIRC, is selling them after they've worked them over a bit. But you can find all sorts of Vaughan hammers and roofing hatchets at Home Depot.

**OldJimbo** · 12-12-2006, 14:45

I've done well with GB's but I either had a well trained friend pick them out or I spent a long time on the phone with the special orders dept at Lee Valley...

It's past time for me to stop promoting the Vaughans because the thin blade versions now have heat treat issues. Mike ended up throwing a lot away and so lost out bigtime in his grinding them for people. Unless a person is sure of getting a thick bladed one, it's best to stay away.

**mmc1** · 12-12-2006, 16:47

Originally Posted by OldJimbo

It's past time for me to stop promoting the Vaughans because the thin blade versions now have heat treat issues. Mike ended up throwing a lot away and so lost out bigtime in his grinding them for people. Unless a person is sure of getting a thick bladed one, it's best to stay away.

The difference in Quailty of the old Vaughans and the new ones are like daylight and dark. The new ones not only are ground thinner but have large dips ground in them that are extremely thin. After I saw the new style I remembered that I had seen a Vaughan in a junk store a year before ,went back and he still had it !

Here is a link to side by side picture (new style on right) http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/...aughan_403.jpg

**OldJimbo** · 13-12-2006, 04:37

Teh thin one doesn't look so bad until a person remembers that such grinding has to be done slowly or temper will be removed. It also has to be done carefully or cutting bevels won't be correct. Not a great likelyhood of either with factory grinding on a low cost item.

**OldJimbo** · 13-12-2006, 04:42

It's having uniform polished cutting bevels at the same angle as ramp which allows hatchet to be easily batoned in and suddenly popping open a big split. On wood like this with less cross grain and knots, a wooden wedge would work fine too:

**British Red** · 13-12-2006, 06:36

Thanks for spending so much time here on these threads Jimbo. Your photos and explanations are always so interesting (well to me at least) - I always jump straight to your posts if I see you have made one - thanks again

**OldJimbo** · 13-12-2006, 14:49

I find the capabilities of the little hatchets surprising even now after using them so much. I'd ground a lot of hatchets before getting the first properly reground one, and quickly saw that my efforts weren't good enough. I hadn't taken enough time to make sure that both bevels and ramps were finished properly and polished enough. Mike Stewart sent me some more to test and the differences became even clearer. So with the long split piece above, you don't see all the other trials where I tried all sorts of stuff. I'd figured that if the tiny hatchet tapped easily into the log and the split just popped open, then my norlund would do exactly the same. It didn't. It tapped in slowly due to friction, and the wood had time to adjust and didn't split. It took a while to sink in, but of course I realized that with my little grinder and level of experience, I'd have to do a lot of hand sanding and polishing with the big drywall sanding pad.
The tiny hatchet is still a tool for casual fires for a brew up and a tool of last resort - nothing changes that. A tiny axe for many in the northern woods is going to be something like an SFA because that's the tool the owner has confidence in and expertise with. That's fair enough! The thing is that axes can be improved beyond what a person would expect, if they'll put in the hours with the hand tools.

**David Morgan** · 21-03-2007, 23:05

Since it's been a few months since this thread was active I thought I'd ask if anyone knows of any change in the quality of the heat treatment of the Vaughans hatchet. Maybe if they were having teething problems with the new design that have now been sorted... probably wishful thinking, it seems like a nice axe at a nice price.
Alternatively, can anyone tell me what specification steel they use? If its plain carbon and I can get the details I can probably re-harden one for myself. I've e-mailed Vaughans but no reply, probably a trade secret

**sargey** · 21-03-2007, 23:36

i can't help with that sadly.

but i do know that this outfit has the KoA axe and you can sort of see the profile here.

nothing to do with me commercially, but i have bought stuff from them in the past and the service has always been top notch.

cheers, and.

**David Morgan** · 22-03-2007, 09:27

Sorry, which outfit? Should there be a link?

I Checked It out on KoA's own site and it looks good, but a little pricey, even with the strong pound after p&p and import duties it would probably end up much the same as a GB mini or wildlife hatchet, but thanks for pointing it out.

**Zammo** · 22-03-2007, 09:35

Theres a picture under his post, you may have to wait for it to load in if you have a slow internet connection.

**David Morgan** · 22-03-2007, 09:50

I got the picture, the way Sargey phrased it (this outfit has the KoA axe) made me think he was talking about another supplier other than Knives of Alaska themselves?

**David Morgan** · 22-03-2007, 09:55

Just noticed the 'MichiganKnives' tag... have to wait until Sargey logs in again to find out if it is them to whom he refers.

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