Bush Hygiene

[JakeR]

I came back from a weekend away on monday and wanted to know once and for all a few things about food hygiene.
If i am handling beef and lamb (uncooked) is it nessasarry to wash my hands afterwards. I got very frustrated this weekend with having to wash my hands all the time in our invaluable water.

What about pork...i know chicken is bad when uncooked, but pork?

When you catch and prepare and animal, what hygiene procedures do you go through?

Cheers,

Jake

[Lithril]

Not sure about the hygiene issue and how to get around it but pork is actually worse than chicken for getting food poisoning from. Top on the list is actually rice with pork a close competitor.

[JakeR]

Rice?? I didnt want to sound like a hygiene nut, but i can get paranoid!

[Ed]

In a word ...YES!!! You should always wash you hands after handling uncooked meat, that is part of the basic food hygine certificate.
Pork can be far worse than chicken as it goes off alot quicker and can contain nasty little things like hook worm ;-) which are easily transferable to hunams. Pork is even worse in the heat.... so bad infact that a ban on eating it even entered the religions of some desert peoples over two and a half thousand years ago and continues to this day.

:-)
Ed

[Stuart]

Rice? you can at rice raw, how would you get food poisioning from it?

[boaty]

Rice?? I didnt want to sound like a hygiene nut, but i can get paranoid!

It's only paranoia if they're not out to get you

Rice that has been cooked and left to go cold can cause food poisoning if eaten without re-heating properly, e.g. this news report and here's the science

[Ed]

Rice?? I didnt want to sound like a hygiene nut, but i can get paranoid!

When rice is cooked and left, it goes off, turns yellow and contains some very lethal toxins ;-) Rice should be eaten when cooked and not re-heated the day after!!! If you do re-heat rice, make sure you have re-cooked it right through.... and I mean cooked, not re-heated!!!

:-)
Ed

[Stuart]

Oh i see!!!!

after being cooked, should have thought of that ops:

[Lithril]

Rice acts like a sponge for bacteria, I've even had food poisoning from it from a bachelors packet, definately not something to take on an expedition if you can help it, if you want emergancy rations for a bean feast or something.

Bout the only pork thats actually worth taking with you is the shrink wrapped bacon rashers (not the hard gas filled packs). The vacuum wrapped backs have been preserved before filling and if you really want to make sure, freeze them first .. makes ideal cool blocks!!

[JakeR]

i've eaten day-old partly re-heated rice countless time and venver heard of a problem. But can you get food poisoning in the field from raw meat? (lamb beef etc) i mean by handling it?

Cheers,

Jake

[Stuart]

now that i think of it when i was living in mauritius i ate rice everyday that had been cooked then reheated and reheated each day untill the bowl was finnished

but in that case i suppose we were reheating it enough to kill the bacteria each time

prep the meat then whilst its cooking wash your hands then eat

anthing that you contaminated the meat with before cooking will be killed during the cooking process (as long as you cook it correctly)

you just need to make sure that you dont contaminate it after its been cooked

[Adi007]

i've eaten day-old partly re-heated rice countless time and venver heard of a problem. But can you get food poisoning in the field from raw meat? (lamb beef etc) i mean by handling it?

Cheers,

Jake

Yes, there is a risk from things such as parasites in the meat and offal, bacterial growth and so on ... it's a pain having to wash hands but tha alternative is a lot, LOT worse!

[JakeR]

I suppose so! Are those anti-biotic hand wash without watre jobs good?

Cheers,

Jake

[Adi007]

I suppose so! Are those anti-biotic hand wash without watre jobs good?

Cheers,

Jake

Yeah, I use them a lot - it's small and no hassle to use and seems effective.

[tree_hugger]

poultry is one of the most poisinous uncooked meats around defienatly wash your hands after handling that.

[JakeR]

I dont use poultry when camping, just because it can make you ill and can also cross-contaminate easily.

[PC2K]

looking at the amount of reheated rice i ate, i must be lucky ( or alian )...
why not use foil packed cooked meat ? much easier....

[JakeR]

I seem to eat a lot of cold rice as well the day after. Never had problems.

I prefer a steak that i have cooked myself!

[stuart f]

I think its a common sense approach when handling meat in the field or the kitchen, just make sure your hands are clean after touching any raw meat. Personally as a qualified chef i think theres been to much scare tactics given out by the powers that be in recent years about food poisoning. Its got to the stage where people are afraid to handle meats of any sorts in a raw state,i sometimes wonder if this is a contributor to so many people buying pre-packed meals as they think they,re safer in some way.

When surely its only a matter of common sense when it comes to hygiene.
CHEERS
STUART F.

[mojofilter]

QUOTE i've eaten day-old partly re-heated rice countless time and venver heard of a problem

I regularly eat the remains of fridays carry out on a sunday and ive never had a problem either.

[stuart f]

The rice situ is this,when you,ve cooked the rice and don,t intend to eat it right away, don,t just leave it to one side to cool down by its self. What to do is drain the rice in a colander then run it under the cold tap until the rice cold,let it drain then put it in the fridge so it remains cold,then just reheat it when you need it.

the problem of food poisoning comes about when the rice has been allowed to stand at room tempreture and not cooled down properly after cooking this allows bacteria to grow.

i read a story once about a woman who gave some of her friends food poisoning because she cooked the rice the night before their intended meal,what she did was cooked the rice then drained it and left it to cool at room temp but did,t make sure it was cold all the way through. The rice on the top felt cold but if she had put her hand through the rice she would have felt it still warm at the centre, thus leaving it overnight still warm allowed bacteria to grow,result some very sick friends.

Hope this helps clear the situ.
CHEERS
STUART F.

[Doc]

Stuart is right - it is the slow cooling of rice at room temperature that is the problem:

Bacillus cereus intoxication is typically associated with the consumption of fried rice the 'Chinese Restaurant Syndrome'. Spores survive the initial boiling of rice that is then allowed to cool in bulk. During the slow cooling, spores germinate and vegetative bacteria multiply, then sporulate again. Sporulation is also associated with toxin production. Any uncooked boiled rice used to be kept for production of fried rice on the second day. If the batch was contaminated with Bacillus cereus, overnight storage in a refrigerator is sufficient to allow toxin production. The toxin is heat-stable, and can easily withstand the brief high temperatures used to cook fried rice. Within 16 hours of eating contaminated fried rice, patients suffer a bout of vomiting that generally lasts for less than a day.

Just speaking generally, any raw meat can be contaminated with bowel type bacteria such as salmonella. The risk is higher with poulty- lots of people eat rare sirloin (sometimes so rare a good vet could resuscitate it....) but you wouldn't eat rare chicken breast, would you?

Alcohol gels are very useful to decontaminate hands which have been rinsed of visible contamination. We have dispensers full of them around the hospital.

[Adi007]

(sometimes so rare a good vet could resuscitate it....)

:rolmao:

Alcohol gels are very useful to decontaminate hands which have been rinsed of visible contamination. We have dispensers full of them around the hospital.

Any sugestions for a good one? I look at the little bottles I see in outdoor shops and think that it's probably watered down (and dearer) version of something better.

Thanks for the great post again Doc!

[Gary]

Careex hand wash is anti bactiral and can be used as a standard soap too.

Personaly I carry anti bac pump spray as sold in the supermarket - you can clean all your gear with this even your hands.

If a smaller pump spray is wanted for short trips I pour said spray into an old (washed out) mosi repellent spray bottle which works well.

Another point to remember is never return a contaminated knife back to its sheath - clean it first. And if your knife has a leather handle make sure you clean that thoroughly too.

[JakeR]

Personaly I carry anti bac pump spray as sold in the supermarket - you can clean all your gear with this even your hands.

Ironically, its that kind of spray that can make you ill...indirectly.
If you live in a sterile invironment and are then exposed to bacteria, your immune system is unable to act upon it, thus making you ill. It is also afefecting the community as bacteria can become resistant.

:shock:

Thats is also why the problem of GPs over-prescribing anti-biotics is also allowing the bacteria to become resistant.


Cheers,

Jake

[C_Claycomb]

Please quit this discussion!! You are all making me quite scared! I have been cooking rice, eating half and leaving the rest in the saucepan to cool over night, then sticking it in the fridge next morning. Re-warm in the microwave for dinner the next day :shock: Sometimes the rice even lasts for three meals like this!

I didn't know I was dicing with toxic bacteria every time!!!! I mean, I must have gotten away with this 2-4 times a month for the last 5 years, at least!!!! All my Chinese friends do something similar, or have done in the past. No one has ever had a problem. Just proves what dumb luck can achieve.

As an aside, with respect to exposure vs being clean. An old family friend of my mum lives in a cottage in the Welsh mountains. She raised her son in what many would think of as semi-derelict buildings that border on third world conditions. Her son went bare foot most of the time, right up into his teens. Years ago we were out on a walk on the tow path when he cut his toe on a flint. His mum promptly cleaned the wound by the expedient method of sloshing it in the canal. We carried on with the walk, the dust of the path forming a scab with the blood and canal water. Don't think that guy ever had any bad effects from the treatment. Talk about tough immune systems!! :shock:

[JakeR]

Ive been doing the same as you, never has a problem, perhaps i'll be more careful from now on.
I used to be quite paranoid about food poisoning when i was younger, used to stop me from eating out for a year.

How dangerous is it really, because i have eaten "dodgy" rice countless times and never had a problem.

[Kath]

Surely the effect of the bacteria will be worse if you've never been exposed to it before. So perhaps you've built up some kind of immunity over the years...

(This all fits in nicely with my housekeeping policy - don't keep it too clean and sterile or you won't build up any natural resistance! Probably total tosh, but it works for me! :twisted

[JakeR]

(This all fits in nicely with my housekeeping policy - don't keep it too clean and sterile or you won't build up any natural resistance! Probably total tosh, but it works for me! )

Your actually not far off the mark there Kath...my dad and a gp where once going to write a book on the correlation between sterile environments and sickness. Dettol is actually having a profound negetive effect on public health. Its different in hospitals, everything needs to be sterile there!

Cheers,

Jake

[EdS]

as the odd saying goes:

"you eat a peck of dirt between the cradle and the grave"