TWO-WAY RADIOS? YES OR NO?

[Col.Parsons]

Hi All :-D

I just thought I'd see how you all feel about 2 way radios in the outdoors, specifically the little PMR446 public ones.

Do you think they are good, or bad?

Which ones do you think are the best?

I only ask as I have a set of Binatone and Cobra ones, and would like to know if they'll work with other makes such as Motorolla (they work with each other).

Also, do you find them useful?

Any thoughts or comments would be great :-D

Si

[Adi007]

Well, I've never found them that useful. They are "line-of-sight" radios and you can take the quoted 3 km with a large pinch of salt. We have managed to get them to work over about 1.5 miles but that was over water and the quality left something to be desired.

I would imagine that they are interchangeable with other sets ... but cannot confirm that.

Yes or no ... dunno really. They have a certain level of handiness but I'd think that two mobile phones whould in the long run be more use.

[Stew]

It depends really. What do you want them for?

We had 4 with us on a recent climbing trip between 16 of us. It meant that parts of the group could go wander off while still staying in contact with the rest of the group.

We were using Binatone MR300s so only the 8 channels - it was hard to find a free channel at times so we had to talk over people occasionally. Quality was good at times but also poor at others. As Adi says, a lot of it depends on line of sight.

For what we want, they're great. We're not after a great range - just stopping us having to shout at the crag when all you want is a chat. Plus at £50 for 4 radios, you can't go wrong!

As for compatability, any PMR446 radio will work with any other PMR446 radio. The only possible diference is that some only have 8 channels, wherea others have 16 sub-channels (I think) of the main 8 channels.
If you mean are they compatable with Motorolas such as the GP340, then no they're not as the frequencies they used are licensed.

[Adi007]

Are licensed freq systems (like the GP340) any better? Also, what legal hoops do you have to leap through to use them?

[Stew]

They are loads better but that comes at a price.
We use them at work around a University campus, so we can't always rely on being in line of site. We can be in a building or in the middle of a field. Some are getting a bit old and battered so don't give the best results but generally there's no problem. They're the proper professional bits of kit. You've probably seen people use them all sorts of places.



The problem is:
- they're heavier. Just quickly weighed one I have at home and it comes in at about 400g compared to the 100g of the binatone. My work belts all get stretched!

- the frequencies are fixed. It's not something I fully understand but I think that the University pays for 5 frequencies (the radio can cope with 16) that I guess no one else in the locality is alowed to use. We occasionally have to go off site and the radio will obviously go out of range of the campus eventually. We've never tried using them while someone else is off site at the same time so I don't know if the campus has some sort of base station.

Basically, it's illegal to use them without a licence.

Does that make sense?

[giancarlo]

got myself a "Motorola T5522 Twin Pack" while ago.
Basically same as all the others. Came with charger pack, batteries, belt clips etc.
I only really use them for when we've been snowboarding and climbing (like stew said, they're great for that), got about 1.5/2km out of them on the mountain snowboarding. Others were in the cafe at the bottom and we were half way up the mountain.. great for keeping in touch when you all ski at different levels.

Don't really see a use for them on a general day out. might be useful if you were out over a few days and had a fixed camp and there was a few of you off doing different things at the same time..

[Doc]

Well the distance record for unmodified PMR446 transceivers is 150 miles: see http://www.delboyenterprises.co.uk/pmr_446mhz.htm

but we are talking hilltop to hilltop with favourable conditions. The 3km range claimed on the packet is rather optimistic, and about a km or less in real life is more like it.

You need a license for any transmitter but PMR 466 is covered by a 'general license' granted to everybody so you can just use them freely in Europe. Power out is no more than half a watt and sets must have an integral (and usually inefficient) antenna.

There are only 8 channels. More expensive sets have a sub tone squelch system, so you won't hear other people who aren't using the same tone. You will still get interference if two people transmit simultaneously though.

You can apply for business radio licences - you get your own frequency so less interference, and more power (up to 5 watts from a handheld, 25 watts from a vehicle).

But best and cheapest option is get a foundation amateur radio licence - a weekend of study, a simple test, £15 (free if you're young enough) and you get to use up to ten watts on UHF, VHF and short wave amateur bands. You can do a lot with that.

The highest class of amateur licence gives you nearly half a kilowatt.... :-D

[Doc]

This is what I use:

http://www.blazer.com.sg/Products/Yaesu/ft104050r.htm

Once took it up Ben Vorlich in Perthshire - had a nice chat with a bloke in Wales, via the Isle of Man repeater station. Also receives the International Space Station quite well on the VHF amateur downlink, but I've yet to make a contact with them.

[Adi007]

Thanks for the info Doc! :biggthump

[Stew]

Also receives the International Space Station quite well on the VHF amateur downlink....

Cool!!
:-D

[Col.Parsons]

Great info guys :-D

It's just that we are looking into using them on the D of E Gold final, which will be on the Knoydart peninsula of Scotland.

I have two sets of the public radios - 4 Binatone and 2 Cobra, but I want to use them with our supervisors' Motorolla TalkAbout ones. Is there a way to lock the channels to the basic 8 instead of using the subcodes?

Because I think that's why I can hear them, but can't talk to them.

Thanks again,

Si

[alick]

As Doc says, there are only 8 frequencies whatever type of PMR446 radio you get. By selecting a supplementary digital channel (1-38 on any of the 8 frequencies) you make your radio transmit a short burst of audio tones each time you transmit. The receiving radio can be set to listen for a particular burst of audio tones, any transmission coming in with the wrong set of tones (i'e. wrong "channel") just gets ignored by the radio - it's there but you never hear it. If you have a radio without this feature, you hear everything on whichever of the 8 frequencies you're tuned to, including the bleeps added by other people's radios.

On the motorola T5512 talkabout that I use, if you select supplementary channel 0 with any frequency, it works like a basic set. It doesn't add any CTSS tones to your transmissions and it lets you hear everyone tranmitting on your frequency. I don't think you should have any problems talking to your instructor's set.

PS travelling in the icelandic interior (cold desert) there's no cellphone coverage and next to no people - people commonly have big 100watt+ HF radio sets fitted in their 4x4's. These have enough oomph to transmit from one side of the island to the other !

Cheers,

[Col.Parsons]

Cheers Alick :-D

The Motorolla radios you talked about ARE the ones my supervisor has! So, it looks like we'll have to have a play with the channels to find the right one to talk to each other!

I've actually thought about going to do the Radio License test in town, but it seems like an expensive way to get a few more frequencies and a lot more distance! Would you recommend I do this, or just stick with the basic PMR446 radios?

Thanks again,

Si

[the naughty boy]

TWO-WAY RADIOS? YES OR NO?
maybe...depends.

[mercury]

Weeeeeeeeell I went camping last weekend at Cropton Forest and took the yellow binatone ones the kids got for christmas , the range in woods was fine up to about a mile / two miles

[leon-1]

I have used a number of different radio's, one of the sets that I have used was a set of Motorola TA-200's. Considering thier size weight and battery life I found them to be very good. On one occassion I have used them in comparison to the Clansman PRC349 (standard personal radio in the army), they beat the clansman on both range and quality of signal. I have had said set of radio's for more than six years I would think and they have worked pretty much faultlessly for this time, however they have not had heavy usage, but if the ones that you are looking at are similiar in any way you should have no problems.

[Squidders]

I bought some little BT ones from Argos for a little under £50 and I have used them for climbing long routes when the wind is howling and I don't want to be shouting down for rope slack blah blah...

I haven't tested the range fully on them but they were good for just under a mile in not to dense woodland.

I think they're great, the batteries last ages and I recently found out they have a built in FM radio reciever which is fantastic for evening relaxing :super:

Hope this helps.

Joe
___________________
to err is human - to moo is bovine.

[BorderReiver]

A quick plug for Amature Radio.

http://www.rsgb.org/

A much more versatile and useful use of radio.There are many repeaters which cover most of the country which allow a much greater coverage than the 446 sets.

The use of APRS allows positioning signals to be transmitted.This lets people know exactly where you are(and how fast you are going if you're in a car).It can also let you know where your kids are.

The Foundation course is open to everybody.A family or scout group could do the course together.A pass not only allows local comms but opens up the world to a licensed operator.There is even an internet link which allows connection through the web.

[RovingArcher]

When the wife and I go hiking, camping, hunting, we each carry an FRS/GMRS radio (memorex) with us. It gets an honest 2+ miles in heavy woods and will bounce a signal 5 miles down the tree'd and not so straight valley we live in. When I head afield by myself, I carry one of them with me. It'll talk to kids walkie talkie's as well as FRS and GMRS radios. They have them that will cast a signal up to 10 miles now, but the set we have are good enough for our needs.

[Ed]

we each carry an FRS/GMRS

I've used these abroard and though they were much better than the pmr over here, better range.... its a shame you can't use them over here in the UK :-(

Ed

[wolf]

found these in tescos,15 0r 17 quid,range 5k.
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