Chasing the Ember

[jimford]

And mullen or elder spindels with clematus board on hand drills

I've heard that mullein stems are good, but I've looked at them and they don't seem very convincing. They're not very woody and have hollow stems. Am I talking about the same thing, here?

Jim

[Mountainwalker]

This is a great thread, I have really enjoyed reading about the frustrations of others as i am experiencing a similar scenario. I have only had a few goes this month at the bowdrill technique and you guessed it, no luck yet. From the mechanical perspective everything is working fine, I think my issue relates to the materials being used. Living in Australia I am struggling to find a suitable hearthboard. If I understand correctly the hearthboard should be a soft wood?

[troy ap De skog]

mullen has to be year old/last years plant... about 4ft tall plus, get quite woody so dose burdock, but not efficiant as mullen

[Mountainwalker]

Hi there Pace,

Here's a couple of really helpful video clips for both the bow drill and hand drill fire lighting method, which were alot of help to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeNbT...e=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3spos...e=channel_page

With regards to using the power tool to test materials, I find that it doesn't work as the spinning motion is only in one direction. At first glance you might think that this wouldn't be an issue, but the problem with this is that it tends to 'polish' all the tiny fibers it's being exerted against (on the board) in one direction - thus reducing friction. The board's fibers need to be pushed one way for a few seconds, and then back again in the opposite direction before they get a chance to become too smoth, ie 'polished' . This is acheived by the clockwise/anticlockwise motion of the fire by friction method, but not by the power tool. It's a bit like smoothing a carpet in one direction - all the fibres will face one way - which is nice for a carpet but no good for a hearth board!

I'd advise you to dicth the oak and try some lime on lime, sycamore on sycamore or ivy on ivy - for the bow drill, and for the hand drill try some elder on a clematis board or some budlia on a clematis board.

Best of luck!

Thanks for posting those vid links, a lot easier than looking at a few diagrams in a book.

[Nightwalker]

I have had good results with sycamore and I also like to use Ivy-wood now as the board, this is using the bow-drill, I haven't yet truly mastered the hand-drill. I've also made a couple of videos on the subject to try and help others, one is half way down on this page: http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/videos

[Le Loup]

[QUOTE=pace;202997]Evening all, I need a bit of help...

I have been trying for a few days now to make fire by friction, and failing. I've tried various woods including poplar, oak, hazel and some others i dont even recognise.

I have been using a drill (of the cordless persuasion) to test and see if anything is likely to come of it, rather than giving myself blisters without any promise of a result... and aside from a lot of smoke and black powder, have failed to produce anything with potential.

I plan to sort it with the drill first, get that bit figured, then move on to hand drilling.

I am using a piece about 1.5cm diameter fixed into the drill bit, and sharpened to a rounded point. I have been using a slot in the side of the dip in the hearth board to catch the ember, but there has so far only been black dust.

I have also been wondering about the method involving a groove and a scraping action... is that likely to prove any easier than the bow drill?[/QUOT

The action of first in one direction, and then the other is important for getting the charred tinder dust out of the slot. The softer the drill and fireboard the quicker this will work. If you are producing black dust, then you must be close,
I would suggest getting everything right first, the drill-bit, the fire-board, and the hearth/tinder board. Then keep at it until you get an ember. Do not stop too soon!
Le Loup. PS. See other posts on this subject.

[masongary44]

I first succeeded on a Woodsmoke course using Sycamore but later, due to availability (my then in-laws cut one down) I used Ash for all the components and had great sucess. I make my drill a little over thumb thickness, use the point of my knife to guage how big to cut the notch and make sure I find something waxy to put in the bearing block to help cut down on un-wanted friction.

I also find that longer, slower strokes seem to work better for me than shorter faster ones, but I get the feeling that it is all a matter of personal preferences and technique.

Like most things bushcraft practice, experience and experimentation are the keys. It took me hours of continuous attempts the first time. The forest was full of squeaking and swearing as students tried and failed... but the feeling of getting it right makes it all worth while. Stick with it, you will not regret it.

[VtBlackdog]

Pace-
-strip the bark off the drill
-carve the drill so it has flat sides, like an octagon shape; this gives the string more grip
-point the notch into the wind; if its not blowing, then point the notch away from yourself and blow on the dust pile while drilling to help fan up an ember
-try fluffed up jute for tinder to catch the dust
-poplar has worked good for me, it needs to be well seasoned.
-rub the upper tip of the drill in your ear, earwax for lubrication
-it works best for me to put the hearth on a chair, and drill in a standing postition with left foot up holding the hearth, with left hand locked into top of shoe for stability
-I make my drill the same diamiter as my index finger and use a glass candle holder for the bearing block

when you get it the first time, it will be worth the effort!
I got it to work on June 22nd, and have 25+ fires so far!

[Lake]

Hi ! I'm new here. My favourite combination (Bow drill) is Hazel (Corylus avellana) on Willow (Salix alba) -->on pics
Also Hazel (Corylus avellana) on Poplar (Populus nigra) works well. Allways use softwood as fireboard.

[TwoSticks]

Something I've noticed, and those more proficient than me can confirm or deny this, but it seems to me I have more success with a fresh hearth (by which I mean the circular bit you drill into not the whole bit of wood) than going back to a hearth that is already pretty well burnt out.

Yes - I'd agree with you about this. If the hearth has a deep socket (ie the hole has been used a couple of times before) then the drill sits lower within it. This creates greater friction because the drill is not only in contact with the hearth on the bottom of the drilling face, but also on the vertical side of the drill within the deeper socket.

Pace, if you haven't succeeded yet, keep going! There are many variables which all need to be balanced out with each other in the right proportions, and once you've learned how these interact by getting your first few embers you'll wonder how you ever couldn't manage to get it so easily!

[Nightwalker]

Yes - I'd agree with you about this. If the hearth has a deep socket (ie the hole has been used a couple of times before) then the drill sits lower within it. This creates greater friction because the drill is not only in contact with the hearth on the bottom of the drilling face, but also on the vertical side of the drill within the deeper socket.

Pace, if you haven't succeeded yet, keep going! There are many variables which all need to be balanced out with each other in the right proportions, and once you've learned how these interact by getting your first few embers you'll wonder how you ever couldn't manage to get it so easily!

Perhaps event more important to remember is that the socket becomes polished and smooth, two smooth surfaces rubbing against each other wont produce not nearly as much chared wood-dust. Between goes take the time to rough the socket up using the tip of your knife, or a bit of sand to rough the socket, also the bottom of the drill becomes polished so again going at it with the knife and squaring it off slightly will encourage it to work more wood away and create the dust you need.

You'll see examples of what im talking about in my videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAb-3...=18#t=4m50secs

[Stanleythecat]

Evening all, I need a bit of help...

I have been trying for a few days now to make fire by friction, and failing. I've tried various woods including poplar, oak, hazel and some others i dont even recognise.

I have been using a drill (of the cordless persuasion) to test and see if anything is likely to come of it, rather than giving myself blisters without any promise of a result... and aside from a lot of smoke and black powder, have failed to produce anything with potential.

I plan to sort it with the drill first, get that bit figured, then move on to hand drilling.

I am using a piece about 1.5cm diameter fixed into the drill bit, and sharpened to a rounded point. I have been using a slot in the side of the dip in the hearth board to catch the ember, but there has so far only been black dust.

I have also been wondering about the method involving a groove and a scraping action... is that likely to prove any easier than the bow drill?

Pace

I'm over the border in Wiltshire if you still haven't mastered it i'd be happy to have a look.

I agree about reading up as much as you can if you can't get to see someone do it for real. There's a vast amount of knowledge out there and some really good tips, my success so far has been standing dead sycamore (thanks to the grey squirrel!), a small pinch of sand to bed the drill in to the hearth, once this is done chalk up the drill and hearth with some charcoal (I read this gives a 30% greater chance of success!) and steady consitent strokes using the full bow. You should be able to maintain a conversation whilst you do it, this builds up a good pile of chared dust and then I have a small 10 second spirt at the end to ignite the ember. Once you have it it will stick for good.

Leo

[jean baptiste]

hi
i use western red cedar for fire friction ! i have ignition very quicly

[pace]

Looking back at this post I had no idea it had been so long since I first tried... There have been years of gaps between hours, days of frustration, but after a trip to the bushmoot, the input of several people, Mark's session and a fair bit of practice it is done. That is to say I have done it. Now to make it second nature...

Thanks to all who have helped in this thread and at the moot