Whats the best grind for your ideal bushcraft knife?

[British Red]

As the question says really - just trying to gauge opinion on the best grind for the ideal all round bushcraft knife!

[leon-1]

I voted scandi, but I actually prefer the grind to be deeper like the Grohmann.

[Hoodoo]

I'm perfectly happy with a scandi, flat or convex grind, assuming the blade is relatively thin enough to do more than carve wood. A flat grind with a Moran edge is just dandy as far as I'm concerned. In a scandi, I generally like a high grind on the bevel for 5/32" or thicker stock, and I can live with a smaller bevel on 1/8" stock or less. Also, I generally prefer 1/8" stock or less for the full convex. The hollow grind I pick as my favorite for a hunting knife, especially when it's ground on a large wheel.

So...I have no grind preferences, just geometry preferences.

[Snufkin]

I'm perfectly happy with a scandi, flat or convex grind, assuming the blade is relatively thin enough to do more than carve wood. A flat grind with a Moran edge is just dandy as far as I'm concerned. In a scandi, I generally like a high grind on the bevel for 5/32" or thicker stock, and I can live with a smaller bevel on 1/8" stock or less. Also, I generally prefer 1/8" stock or less for the full convex. The hollow grind I pick as my favorite for a hunting knife, especially when it's ground on a large wheel.

So...I have no grind preferences, just geometry preferences.

I voted convex, as if I were only allowed one knife that would be it. But I like a scandi grind too. And I'm ordering a flat ground Otter with a secondary bevel from Shing to see how I fare with that. So to be fair my answer would really be whatever takes my fancy at the time (I'm so fickle ).

[happy camper]

I voted scandi.
Good for woodwork and so good for many bushcraft tasks, strong and easy to sharpen.
I really like convex aswell but fallkniven already do that very well with the f1.
I reckon there's a lack of anything with a scandi grind that i would consider on par with the f1 for quality and cost, something that falls somewhere between the mora (which many learn to sharpen on) and the custom bushcraft knives (which are many peoples ideal, and often seem to have the scandi grind)

[tarmix101]

I voted flat. As w/ Hoodoo I would be happy w/ a flat grind and a Moran edge on it.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be apposed to any of the three. I own and use a Eriksson Mora, Fallkniven F1, and a Grohmann #1 flat grind. I am happy w/ all three (grinds) and I just slightly prefer the flat grind to the others, but not for all tasks I dunno.... this is confusing

[Andy]

I voted scandy as my fixed blade knife is used for wood mostly. I tend to have a thinner pocket knife that can handle the slicing of stuff.
I don't see an advantage of a flat grind knife over a convex one other then possible cost of making it in the first place. I'm quite happy convexing the edge of a full flat though so it doesn't bother me

[Ogri the trog]

I voted Scandi,
Though the reasons why might be a little confusing.
In the main, it is the grind with which I can get the smallest curls on a featherstick. The convex sometimes strikes me as a poorly controlled scandi, and a flat can seem a little too agressive. Now there are definate plus points for convex and flat grinds and I'm certainly amongst those that use them frequently. Same with the hollow grind, though personally I'd rather have the strength of any other blade shape if I had to rely on it long term.

Thats the trouble with a poll that allows one choice only and not the option of "A with a bit of B but none of C"

ATB

Ogri the trog

[British Red]

I'm interested in the fact that a lot of people like a variety of grinds. Actually the poll system does allow people to vote for more than one choice (if I set it up that way). However given sal will ahve to make the "Bushblade" in one grind per iteration (i.e. a flat grind in Kydex sheath with micarta handle and a convex in leather sheath with wood handle etc.) I thought this was the fairest way! I guess we could follow up with opinions on depth of grind etc. if Scandy was selected!

Red

BTW I'm one of those odd "flat grind" merchants - but then I tend to have an axe so I don't baton much etc. so fine cutting is the order of the day for me

[Rhodri]

Although I'm happy using any I also voted for Scandi/sabre... With one proviso - that's the grind isn't too high to make it weak for general work.

Red, I take it we're talking about Sal's Spydie here? In that case, with the 3mm stock a 6-7mm grind height would be good (25 to 30 degree edge angle). If Sal went with the 3.5mm stock he mentioned earlier, then 7-8mm gives roughly the same angles.

If I had a slight preference it would be for the 3mm with a 6mm high grind...

Cheers,
Rod

[Hoodoo]

This is an interesting review and it pretty much dovetails with what I've experienced. Adding a tiny secondary bevel or slight convex bevel to a high scandi grind can make a signifcant difference in how well the blade holds up in the field, but does not have a significant impact on woodcarving in the field.

[British Red]

Rod,

We are indeed mate. I think sal is going to do two models - a trad and a hi-tec. The hi-tec will be flat full but the traditional is "available to be influence" .

I think clever people like you and Hoodoo inputting onto stuff like grind height will make all the difference to be honest. The combined knife using experience you guys bring to bear has to be a pretty powerful R&D function!

Red

[Rhodri]

This is an interesting review and it pretty much dovetails with what I've experienced. Adding a tiny secondary bevel or slight convex bevel to a high scandi grind can make a signifcant difference in how well the blade holds up in the field, but does not have a significant impact on woodcarving in the field.

Agreed

In fact all my scandi ground knives (except a couple of tiny woodcarving tools) have been convexed very slightly - makes a big difference in durability.

However... not everybody likes doing it and a stronger initial grind on a production knife might avoid a few rolled edges for people who prefer to keep their flat highly polished bevels looking ship-shape.

[addyb]

I just had a look at that thread Hoodoo posted and I guess that I did put a small convex bevel on my Frosts Clipper. Seeing as my Clipper is my first fixed blade and depending on how much I use it or how dull it gets I generally take it to a wetstone first, if it's really torn up and then repeat the whole sharpening process with wet dry on a mousepad. I start with a very rough grit, and finish with a very fine grit, and then move onto a leather belt with buffing compound courtesy of Old Jimbo.

I can't say I've noticed a huge difference in durability, but I imagine that for fine slicing work having a small convexed secondary bevel probably helps me do what I do with it. The trouble is, I was batoning with it last week and I took a very minute chip out of the blade, about an inch from the hilt. Oh well, back to the Arkansas stone.

Take it easy guys!

Adam the Reformed Climber and now Bushcraft Nut in training.

[Ted Voorde]

Hi, I'm new here, but am a frequent poster on the Spyderco.com forum where the discussion was started on a Spyderco bush-craft knives.

About grinds, I used my Fallkniven F1 for some really hard batonning through pretty hard wood (2.5") to split it up to make fire on my last trip to Scotland. The edge is still pretty OK to my amazement. I wonder if that's due to the convex grind, where in batonning the edge is only shortly in touch with the wood (only when you start).
With a flat-ground or single-scandi grind, I guess the edge would be under more pressure? And, I wonder when splitting wood, if the single-bevel-scandi grind would push the blade in one direction and make it difficult to split it in half? ( I don't have a single-bevel-scandi grind knife).
I tried to illustrate it with the following picture. Any comments on that?
Thanks,
Ted



The actual fire:

[Stuart]

Hello Ted

I think you may have misunderstood the type of grid we are refering to when we say "single-bevel-scandi grind"

the image below (copied from martyns post) should help make things clearer, the grind on the far right is a "single-bevel-scandi grind":



a quote from Martyn explained his illustration:

A = Concave or hollow grind. Created by grinding on a wheel, different diameter wheels produce differend severities of grind. The smaller the wheel, the deeper the hollow grind. A really big wheel, produces a hollow grind that is *almost* flat. Usually has a small secondary edge bevel, but not always.

B = Full Flat grind. Created by grinding off a flat steel or ceramic platen. The grind goes fully from the spine of the knife, almost to the edge, where it it almost always has a secondary edge bevel (no edge bevel would require sharpeing the entire flat surface of the knife - I've never seen a full flat grind without a secondary edge bevel).

C = Convex grind. Usually created by grinding the steel on a "slack belt". This means no platen, so to some extent the grinding belt deforms to the steel, producing a convex edge (*the same principle as a hoodoo hone). The true full convex grind, doesnt usually have a secondary edge bevel - a grannyB for example.

D = Scandi Grind. Many methods to create this style, but typically, the edge bevels only go 1/3 way up the side of the knife. This creates a very acute or "fat" bevel, which usually does not have a secondary edge bevel. Note the difference in "angle of attack" between this and the full flat grind.
All of these different blade geometries (or combinations of them) produce knives with different charicteristics.

[Ted Voorde]

Hello Ted

I think you may have misunderstood the type of grid we are refering to when we say "single-bevel-scandi grind"

the image below (copied from martyns post) should help make things clearer, the grind on the far right is a "single-bevel-scandi grind":

<snip>

a quote from Martyn explained his illustration:

Hi Stuart. OK - I've seen that picture before but that clears things up if that is what is beinig referred to here as a scandi grind. I thought a lot of Puuko's were only ground on one side (the right side) like Japanese kitchen knives. My EKA camp-knife is ground on only one side (but has a secondary bevel).

So, say a blade is 24mm high, 4mm wide and a 1/3 bevel would result in a +/- 30 degree inclusive edge?

[Martyn]

Hi Stuart. OK - I've seen that picture before but that clears things up if that is what is beinig referred to here as a scandi grind. I thought a lot of Puuko's were only ground on one side (the right side) like Japanese kitchen knives. My EKA camp-knife is ground on only one side (but has a secondary bevel).

I'd call that a chisel grind. I think some Scandinavian knives are ground this way, but most I've seen are symmetrical with a bevel on each side. By "single bevel" we we dont mean it only has a bevel on one side of the knife, but that it doesnt have a tiny secondary edge bevel.

So, say a blade is 24mm high, 4mm wide and a 1/3 bevel would result in a +/- 30 degree inclusive edge?

I'll let someone else check your maths, it's not my strong point.

[Rhodri]

So, say a blade is 24mm high, 4mm wide and a 1/3 bevel would result in a +/- 30 degree inclusive edge?

Hi Ted, it would be 28.95502 degrees. To be precise...

[addyb]

heheheh thank you, Spock!

[RovingArcher]

I prefer a scandi with secondary bevel. But really like a full convex as well.

[C_Claycomb]

I have stuck this thread since it is something that keeps coming up...and, well, someone in Leeds was asking about what the most popular bushcraft grind was. We have a lot of members, and only 81 have voted. Come on everyone, lets get a bigger sample.

[Simon E]

I voted Convex for its ease of sharpening, strength and splitting ability. I also like a full flat with a convexed edge and usually perform this on all my folders.

Sciurus vulgaris is a real fan of the Scandi, but there is so much history with the other blades we can't dismiss them.

[British Red]

Its really hard to find a scandy folder too. I have one now with a beautifully narrow blade and almost surgical point. In use its a real dream, but I'd love someone to remove the scales and replace them with wood for me. I love the knife but it looks unpleasantly "tactical".

Red

[bushwacker bob]

I'll do that for you Red.
You have PM

[falling rain]

I've voted for the convex. If you'd asked me a year ago I would have told you where to stick convex blades. I bought a Fallkniven nl5 Idun from outdoorcode around a year and a bit ago and I absolutely love the knife but had a hell of a job getting used to sharpening it after being so used to a scandi grind. I'm happy to say I've now got the hang of it and it's as sharp as my scandi's ever were. It stays sharp longer, is great for feathering sticks and splitting, is robust and feels indestructable. It's my fav tool in the world ever

[Simon E]

I've voted for the convex. If you'd asked me a year ago I would have told you where to stick convex blades. I bought a Fallkniven nl5 Idun from outdoorcode around a year and a bit ago and I absolutely love the knife but had a hell of a job getting used to sharpening it after being so used to a scandi grind. I'm happy to say I've now got the hang of it and it's as sharp as my scandi's ever were. It stays sharp longer, is great for feathering sticks and splitting, is robust and feels indestructable. It's my fav tool in the world ever

Me too

Put some Kiwi neutral on the handle mate and give it a good rub with mutton cloth, it fairly glows, and it doesnt make it slippery

[OzaawaaMigiziNini]

I voted for Convex, but I have blades with each of the four types of grind. And the shocking thing? I take them all into the bush Surprising I know!

-I have a cutthroat razor with a hollow ground blade. I love it, prefer it more than the Gillettes I have in my bathroom cupboard.

-My Moras seem to have the Scandi grind. I like them for basic bushwork

-My Opinel and my Green River Sheath Knife -the newest addition to my knife collection- both have flat grinds, I love them for shaving the wood, and skinning game.

-Finally, my bowies, kukri machete and other large knives all have convex edges. The edge holds up better for the heavy duty work that I usually need a cutting tool for, felling and limbing trees for shelter, splitting kindling and larger hunks of wood, even butcher deer (three whacks from a good convex edge and you can halve a deer!).

Since I'm usually doing the heavy work at the camp (I'm the only guy big enough they claim), I like a blade that can keep up with the amount of work I have to do. Hollow grind won't do that job, a scandi and flat grind are either quick dulling, or will chip from a hardwood knot. So the Convex edge won my vote. I rarely have to sharpen my heavy hitters (the nick name I have for my big knives), and they always are willing to slice down a maple sapling, or section a cedar for me.

[falling rain]

Me too

Put some Kiwi neutral on the handle mate and give it a good rub with mutton cloth, it fairly glows, and it doesnt make it slippery

Thanks for the tip Simon. My lads got some kiwi neutral he uses for his ATC shoes, so I'll be nicking that off him. Theyr'e good knives arn't they? I'm chuffed to bits with mine, especially now I've got the hang of sharpening the convex blade.

[Simon E]

I absolutely love mine, I have a fair few (all ) of the Northern Light, but the Idun is by far my favourite. When people talk about how thick the spine is, they never mention how thin the cross section is from the edge to 10mm above it. I think my Frej is .4mm about 1mm or so up from the cutting edge, that is hardly a splitting maul.

If you look at Red's 5 pound sharpening thread I posted a pic of what I use on my convex blades and non-convex that I reprofile. I can get a Fallkniven back up to shaving sharp (when steeling just doesnt do it anymore) in about 1-2 mins. Surely in a conversation about the best of something, the maintenance of its cutting performance should have equal weight?