Mullein seed as a paralytic fish poison

[HoosierJed]

Would you use mullein seeds as a paralytic fish poison in a survival situation? If so, how would you go about it?

HoosierJed

[HoosierJed]

Mullein seeds contain rotenone which is a fish poison that cause parlysis in fish and the fish will float to the surface of the water. Wherever there is calm water, such as lakes, ponds or backwash pools in streams or rivers just toss some mullein seeds in the water and whatever fish eats them they will become paralyzed. That's all I know about it so far. If anyone has more info please let me know.

HoosierJed

[wolf]

does this affect the flesh?is it just a case of cooking them to remove toxins???

[Topcat02]

Interesting posts there HoosierJed, you asked a question, and then answered it! You sound a bit like my wife, she asks me a question, and then gives me the answer.

What is a mullein, do the seeds float, are they safe for human consumption?

Cheers

TC

[Pappa]

does this affect the flesh?is it just a case of cooking them to remove toxins???

I think it's only toxic to fish in the ammounts that would be used.

[demographic]

Would you use mullein seeds as a paralytic fish poison in a survival situation? If so, how would you go about it?

HoosierJed

If I was genuinly in a survival situation I would use it but if I was not in any personal danger of starving then NO I would not use it.

[C_Claycomb]

I would have thought you would need to collect the seeds and grind them up before mixing them with the water. My memory of the seeds is that they are small, and I would think the odds of a fish eating enough, after you scatter some in the water, would be pretty remote. There aren't all that many seed eating fish.

I am also unsure of where you would use it. I understand that mullein is distributed across Asia, Europe, and the Eastern USA. Within Europe and the eastern USA I would think it quite hard to get into a situation where poisoning fish would be the most efficient way of getting yourself out of trouble. Given that you can fast for a month if needed, there aren't that many places that you couldn't get yourself out of. I know that most States would take a dim view of you poisoning fish rather than hiking to the nearest highway

Poisons, in water, work best in very sluggish water. I just have trouble seeing a confluence of needs and suitable conditions unless you are intending to live in an Asian Jungle.

[Joshua]

I think it's only toxic to fish in the ammounts that would be used.

rotenone is not very toxic to humans,

http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/rotenone.htm



Acute toxicity
Rotenone is classified by the World Health Organisation as a moderately hazardous, Class II(18). The LD50 for rats (the amount of the chemical lethal to one-half of experimental animals) is between 132 and 1,500 mg per kilogram(19). One factor in this wide variation may be the differences in the plant extracts used(20).
The acute oral toxicity of rotenone is moderate for mammals, but there is a wide variation between species(21). It is less toxic for the mouse and hamster than for the rat; the pig seems to be especially sensitive. Recent studies have shown that in rats, rotenone is more toxic for females than males. It is highly irritating to the skin in rabbits(22), and to the eyes. In rats and dogs exposed to rotenone in dust form, the inhalation fatal dose was uniformly smaller than the oral fatal dose(23).
Rotenone is believed to be moderately toxic to humans with an oral lethal dose estimated from 300 to 500 mg/kg(24). A lowest lethal dose of 143 mg/kg has been cited in a child(25). Clinical experience seems to indicate that children, in particular, are rather sensitive to the acute effects of rotenone(26).
Human fatalities are rare, perhaps because rotenone is usually sold in low concentrations (one to five per cent formulation), and because its irritating action causes prompt vomiting. If the dust particle size is very small, and can enter deep regions of the lungs, rotenone’s toxicity when inhaled may be increased. Acute local effects include conjunctivitis, dermatitis, sore throat, congestion, and vomiting. Inhalation of high doses can cause increased respiration followed by depression and convulsions(27). On the basis of rabbit studies, absorption through the intact skin is low(28).

[heeby]

There aren't all that many seed eating fish.

what about hempseed attracts just aout every fresh water fish in the uk
mark

[heeby]

didnt mean to sound pedantic there just pointing it out. also ive kept fish and am a keen angler and in my eyes a fish will take just about any thing falling through the water, but that doesnt mean they will eat it of course if its inedible they usually chew it a few times and spit it out.and even though hemp is a great bait for attracting fish and actually using on the hook there is a school of thought that the cooked seeds could be taken by fish mistakenly thinking they're snails,but i think the taste must take care of that theory.
mark

[Galemys]

There aren't all that many seed eating fish.

The fish don't have to eat the seeds, the rotenon prohibits them from taking up oxygen, so they basically run out of breath.

Tom

[C_Claycomb]

Heeby, I stand corrected . I hadn't thought about all the prepared grains that anglers use, hemp, wheat, and corn. In nature though, I didn't know that there were many fish that keyed in on falling seeds, most are a bit tough without boiling. I know what you mean about fish trying anything if they get used to food falling from above.

The oxygen absorbtion thing made me think that like the other fish poisons I have seen used on TV, it would have to be in the water, rather than ingested.

[HoosierJed]

I gathered up some added info on this thread. Thanks for all the comments.

HoosierJed

[Ravenn]

Mullien leaves boiled into a tea was a "fall tonic" in this part of the country for many ears, similar to Sassafrass as a spring tonic. The leaves are high in vit. k,and tend to decrease blood clotting time. It should be used with caution ( as with any green tea) in people who are taking anticoagulant meds.

Mixed with garlic and honey, itwas used for cold symnptoms

[Stuart]

good info Ravenn, thanks

[hollowdweller]

Wasn't there some link between Rotenone(sp?) and Parkinsons found recently?