View Full Version : Adam's excellent proofing adventure. (aka: I treated the Ventile)
Okay so yesterday I decided it was time that I proofed my Ventile anorak (the old one in my pictures thread) as the rain here in BC has just been getting worse and worse every day, and droplets just weren't beading on the fabric as much as they should be.
So I phoned up the biggest outdoor store here in town .(Nanaimo) A girl answers the phone. I politely ask her "I have an old Ventile anorak, I'm thinking of treating it with either Nikwax or Grangers cotton proof. Do you recommend a wash-in or spray-on treatment? How much do you charge for it?" There's a pause, and she answers nervously "Uhm...what's an anorak? Is it cotton?" "Yes." "Well I'm sorry, we don't carry proofing treatments, I don't even know much about Grangers. You could call a sewing supply store."
At this point, I was reading to call back, and scream at the manager. Honestly, what kind of outdoor gear store hires employees that don't know the basic points about gear? It's a sad sad day I tell you.
Anyway, myself, a friend and his girl went out to Starbucks for espresso. On the way there, we stopped at a construction gear supply store, and sure enough, there were bottles of Storm Proofer Plus, for $6.25. I bought a bottle, and I'm still wondering why a construction gear store (hard hats, safety vests, the like....) sells it, but a mountaineering supply store hasn't heard of it?
Well I got home, did the treatment, dried it, and today I'm going for a walk in the rain, so I'll test it. (But I have heard that Storm is a fluorocarbon treatment, and that it's very good stuff)
A.
Did you have to iron or dry the coat in a dryer after treatment?
Yes, sortof.
I ran a wash cycle once, empty, to remove all traces of detergent. Then I added 5 (five) capfuls of Storm proofing to the machine, and added the anorak. When it was done, I put it in the dryer at a medium setting to seal in the proofing. Then I took it out, and hung it on the coat rack where it will sit until 11am this morning when I will walk to my Grandmothers for lunch. (It's a short, 30 minute walk) and when I'm home, I'll let you guys know how much of a difference Storm Proofer Plus makes. (In BC right now, the rain is absolutely horrific) ((It's funny how many sopping wet, ill-prepared people I see on campus))
The genius of Storm, is that it's fluorocarbon, and it can be used on all fabrics. So ventile, gore-tex, etc etc...
And it's a massive bottle, and only five capfuls are needed. My Dad wants me to do his Gore-Tex parka, and I might even do my soft-shell jacket.
Anyway, I'll let you guys know.
Adam.
Have you always dried your ventile coat in the dryer. Just wondering if there were any problems with shrinkage.
That's a good question Hoodoo;
And no, it doesn't shrink. Because, if you think about it, the weave is so tight, that it just can't shrink.
The purpose of putting a treated garment in a dryer is to evenly distrubute the proofing throughout the the fibres.
I asked my Dad over beers last night what he used to do back in the '70's with Gore-Tex before DWR proofings were on the market, he said he used to iron his parka's at a low setting.
Anyway, proofings aren't permanent, they wear off over time. Cotton as a fabric holds waterproofing for a very long time. Nylon is not naturally a 'wet weather fabric' which is why DWR's on gore-tex don't last very long. And so when it starts to wear off, or when dirt and sweat clog it, washing and drying a garment improves the DWR.
If you look back a page or two, you'll see a .pdf arcticle I posted called "Lancashire Cottons: A neglected legacy." I highly suggest anyone who owns Ventile to read it, it's extremely informative, albeit very long.
Here's a link. (http://www.gore-tex.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentGView?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=10257)
Cheers,
Adam.
I thought that the point of Ventile was that it shouldn't be treated with anything, or do you just have to be careful what you use?
Wow, lots of questions? I'll admit to you guys, I am unbashfully, a serious gear junkie. I know everything there is to know about climbing gear. Such as:
The Italian researcher who invented polypropylene in the mid 1960's was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
Or how about this one:
Ventile only absorbs 10% of it's weight in water because of the high quality cotton and weave structure.
(No-one really needs to know this stuff, but it comes in hand at parties) :lmao:
Anyway, this proofing REALLY works. Prior to yesterday, as soon as any raindrops hit my Ventile, it would immediately soak in, swell, and and become stiff. (It's not a big deal, it's still warm, and gave me a security feeling - like wearing a suit of armour)
So I took my walk this morning, and holy sh*t, what a difference!
Raindrops just sit there. Like blobs. Of course, they soak in eventually, and it does what it's supposed to do **stiffen up** but it takes quite some time, and the Ventile dries MUCH quicker.
So the point here is this: I highly recommend treating your Ventile, no matter if it's brand new, or 30+ years old.
Cool.
So do you think Nikwax Cottonproof would be suitable? (I would presume so)
Bah, yeah. Nikwax, Grangers, Storm, they all work about the same. I've used Nikwax before on my Gore-Tex and it did the trick.
Essentially, they're really not so different. Nikwax is water based, so it's more environmentally friendly, but it's not as potent, so you need to use more in your washer than you would Grangers or Storm. Those two are Fluorocarbon based, which from what I've read, isn't as green as Nikwax, but it's more potent, so you use less.
Either way you look at it, they work. One's from North America, the other two are from England. (So it depends on your social bias as to which one you'll buy) :D
Adam
bushblade
02-11-2005, 19:51
Cool.
So do you think Nikwax Cottonproof would be suitable? (I would presume so)
No it won't work very well. Nikwax is silicone based (Tx10) the tight weave of ventile forces it out of the fabric and you're left with a kinda milky residue.
Grangers works pretty well, as this is flurocarbon based too, Snowsled recomend it. But Storm is by far the best, I'd recomend the storm spray on stuff then a quick spin in a hot dryer, or a good ironing. Its the heat that activates the proofing, which is why ironing gore-tex revitalises the DWR.
Storm is distributed by AMG outdoors in the UK so anywhere that stocks Vango products should be able to get hold of it. Their range of boot care stuff is not too bad either, though I still rate Grangers best for this.
You can use the storm stuff on pretty much any fabric you want to proof without fear of damaging the product.
Will,
Pardon me, I stand corrected.
In the end, it's probably a good thing that I didn't buy Nikwax, although it was my first choice. I had to settle on Storm because there was nothing else in the gear store I was in, but it turns out that Storm is the best out there. I tried checking out their website for more information but it's "Under Construction." :(
Adam
Bushblade,
You can use the storm stuff on pretty much any fabric you want to proof without fear of damaging the product.
Would this include ripstop nylon? I have an old ponch which is needing reproofed.
Cheers
JFW
Hmm...wouldn't "any fabric" include "any fabric"?? :lmao: *kidding, kidding*
Yep, you can use this stuff on ANYTHING. So far I've done my Ventile, but when it gets closer to December, I'm going to have a go at my Entrant GII-XT, my Dad's 3-ply Classic Gore-Tex, and I would have done my soft-shell jacket, but the piece of sh*t delaminated all over the front. YOU SEE, THAT'S WHY I STOPPED USING SYNTHETICS!!!
A.
how about an old wool blanket that I've made into a shirt?
It looks ok, and I've dyed it green(ish) but I'd like to make it water resistant
Addyb,
Hmm...wouldn't "any fabric" include "any fabric"?? :lmao: *kidding, kidding*
A.
yes you're right I'm an idiot, that why I asked the question - it wouldn't be the first time I've "melted" synthetics by treating them with something I shouldn't.
Thanks for clearing this up for me - if I trash my poncho I'll be chapping your door.... :twak:
Cheers
JFW
JFW,
Sorry if I offended you, I couldn't quite tell by your reply if you were kidding or not. Feel free to fell me with a right-cross to the jaw. heheh
If it's a nylon poncho, I wouldn't bother treating it. Is it military surplus? Army poncho's are sil-coated on the backside, which makes them waterproof, so treating the outside won't do a whole lot of good to it. My advice on poncho's is to wash it with warm water and a wee bit of soap in your bathtub, rinse it for a while, then just hang it in your garage to dry. That's what I did to my two ponchos.
JohnC,
Wool blankets I have no idea about. I do know this: Wool fibre has two parts: the outer has lanolin, which makes it water-repellent. The inner core of the fibre is hydrophillic, (water loving) which absorbs vapour. If you wash the lanolin out of wool, I don't really know what else you could do. I think I read somewhere about washing wool with borax to treat it, but I'm not sure. Ask someone on here who owns a Swanndri anorak, and they'll be able to give you a lot more information than I can. Or you, could have a go with Storm on the blanket, and see where it takes you!
Adam
PS: Take everything I say with a grain of salt, I'm probably the youngest person in this community (not even 21 yet) which means I'm young but also very stupid.
Addyb,
no offence was taken, I like a bit of banter and your posts are appreciated as well as informative. Cheers for the tip and you might still find a red headed scotsman at your door, but to offer you a wee dram. It is sometimes difficult to convey humour using this medium. Anyway you would have to go some to offend me so no worries.
Cheers
JFW
Spacemonkey
06-11-2005, 17:52
Right, a friend treated his 10 year old ventile smock with some Nikwax cotton treatment a few weeks ago. Today whilst out shooting in the lashing rain we got a soaking. The smock didn't appear to actually do much on the proofing front, and it soaked right through to his pertex top underneath.
Now, my theory is that the Nikwax stuff is stopping the threads swelling up somehow as the cloth doesn't stiffen up either. Would this make sense? If so, how the heck can he get rid of it???
Right, a friend treated his 10 year old ventile smock with some Nikwax cotton treatment a few weeks ago. Today whilst out shooting in the lashing rain we got a soaking. The smock didn't appear to actually do much on the proofing front, and it soaked right through to his pertex top underneath.
Now, my theory is that the Nikwax stuff is stopping the threads swelling up somehow as the cloth doesn't stiffen up either. Would this make sense? If so, how the heck can he get rid of it???
How did the smock perform before treating it?
Spacemonkey
07-11-2005, 21:27
Stew, I think that it worked fine, but as it is getting on a bit it wasn't performing as well as it did, but either way, he said it was definitely working better before he proofed it. I have already given him Addys advice on heat treating it so we'll see if that helps.
bushtuckerman
22-01-2006, 14:19
Spacemonkey, how did your friend get on with his jacket? don't mean to dig up finished threads but am interested in the differences between the various proofings for cotton, i would have assumed that nikwax being water-based (according to nikwax's site anyway, although i don't quite understand the difference between that and being silicone based which others have mentioned), would still allow water to bond with the cotton when wet since it is soluble in water. Just a thought.
-ian
Nah, Nikwax is silicone based, as far as I know. It's a lot more environmentally friendly than Grangers or Storm, which are flourocarbon based treatments. You just have to use more of it as Flourocarbon proofings are more concentrated.
I'd totally forgotten that I'd started this thread, because it was a long time ago. Truthfully, I've become a little less impressed with the Storm proofing of my anorak. For a while, I was expecting the water to simply bead up like it does on my nylon based Entrant jacket. But it doesn't, at least not to the same degree.
When it starts to rain, and I'm wearing the anorak, the water beads, but then soaks in. This I'm not too worried about, as it allows Ventile to do exactly what it's supposed to do, swell, get stiff, and become highly water resistant. It also dries a bit faster than it used to, provided I'm wearing it. But...the proofing didn't really do what I expected it to do. It's not a big deal, I still stay dry. It just didn't do quite as much "beading" as I expected it to. Mind you, the proofing was VERY effective, but only for a short while. It's almost non-existant now.
I've even heat-treated it twice since I proofed it, and it doesn't make much of a difference. So, I'm at a bit of a loss for words, and a little embarassed at my excitement about proofings back when I started this thread. It seems that it worked wonders on my anorak for a while, but not anymore.
If someone wants to take a stab at this, I'd appreciate it.
Adam
At this point, I was reading to call back, and scream at the manager. Honestly, what kind of outdoor gear store hires employees that don't know the basic points about gear? It's a sad sad day I tell you.
A.
You are not alone there. Cotton is way too oldfashioned to be of interest for the average shop. Everyone and his uncle wants to buy "one of these jackets which are waterproof and dont make you sweat".
When I browsed the bikeshops looking for old centerpull-brakes, nine out of ten people asked didnt know what this it. But thats what you get when (especially in germany) the only people getting hired are below 25. I only have to think of my colleagues at work who - naturally - have no expirience of things older than five years and still think the sun shines out of their collective a....
A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away... ;) I had an army cadet issue cotton/ventile smock anorak. I was told by my RSM to get it dry cleaned and re-proofed (at the dry cleaners). This seemed to do the trick - many long wet afternoons crawling through bracken and ferns on the local common passed quiet comfortably. It was good for climbing/mountain trekking in all but the worst weather.
I don't know if that will help anyone. The other thing that occurs is to contact West Winds clothing, who make the posh Ventile jackets - they should give you some sound advice on how to clean/reproof your gear. Here'e their webpage http://www.west-winds.co.uk/
all the best
I don't know if that will help anyone. The other thing that occurs is to contact West Winds clothing, who make the posh Ventile jackets - they should give you some sound advice on how to clean/reproof your gear. Here'e their webpage http://www.west-winds.co.uk/
You know, that's a really good idea! Now why didn't I think of that... :rolleyes:
innocent bystander
24-01-2006, 18:35
Just in case anyones interested, Talbot Weaving recommend using Grangers Xtreme Waterproofing for Naturals. :
This might be of some interest for some of you guys, especially Adam, being up in freezing Canada:
http://www.debenhams.com/jv/product_details_jv.jsp?PRODUCT %3C%3Eprd_id=8308099&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=8377025&bmUID=1138039252031#
http://www.debenhams.com/media/images/products/JV/Browse/18_August_2005/Detail/0508_AO7335_det_5a777.jpg
Thread on British Blades for more info about sizing, price and nice pics:
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16315
Ahjno, that's NOT funny! :D
Right now in BC, the sun is shining, there is not a cloud in the sky, and it's about 10 degrees celcius outside. :)
I don't need that parka unless I'm "Up North" so to speak!
:lol:
Cheers,
Adam
mattouthere
26-01-2006, 12:44
Nikwax do not recommend applying any of their proofing products to ventile as in their testing they found that restricting the swelling of the fibres could impair the funtionality of the material. Ventile has worked very well for years without any treatments. Of course in certain conditions applying Nikwax Techwash and Cotton Proof will allow water to bead up giving the impression that the material's water resistancy has improved. But as most treatments only cover the fibres and not the holes in fabric, water will push through given enough pressure and time. The coating will stop the fibres from swelling and you will then feel that the performance of the material has decreased.
As far as Storm waterproofing goes, this was invented? by an ex employee of Grangers and has similar characteristics IE flurocarbons and heat activated. But it does not seem to have the durability of the new range of Nikwax products.
bushtuckerman
26-01-2006, 14:52
Thanks matt, very useful comments. Do you know what grangers or storm proof say about ventile? I get the impression they are better suited to it.
Spacemonkey
29-01-2006, 22:34
Spacemonkey, how did your friend get on with his jacket? don't mean to dig up finished threads but am interested in the differences between the various proofings for cotton, i would have assumed that nikwax being water-based (according to nikwax's site anyway, although i don't quite understand the difference between that and being silicone based which others have mentioned), would still allow water to bond with the cotton when wet since it is soluble in water. Just a thought.
-ian
Not much. He's been too lazy to do anything about it....
bushtuckerman
04-02-2006, 21:19
Does anyone know whether nikwax 'loft tech wash' would harm or improve ventile? i want to clean my jacket, as i think the previous owner may have used something on it, it may just be washing liquid/powder residue that i see on it.
thanks
-ian
Spacemonkey
05-02-2006, 14:49
I'm sure i read somewhere recently that Nikwax shouldn't be used on ventile. I would have thought that ventile on it's own would have been good enough??
bushtuckerman
05-02-2006, 15:33
I understood that it was the silicone that was detrimental to ventile (as with you friend's coat), i don't know whether the tech wash is silicone or water based though. I didn't mean improve as in DWR, i meant in order to improve it's breathability etc, since i think it has possibly been coated in something like nikwax previously, and i want to wash (tech wash) it out. it is also rather old so may be a bit clogged with dirt anyway.
If the tech wash is not suitable then is there something else i can wash it with (bearing in mind it has to be hand washed because of the taped seams)?
cheers
mattouthere
08-02-2006, 16:09
Nikwax Tech wash is a liquid soap cleaner. It does not contain any silicone and is fine to treat ventile. It will help to get rid of detergent residues that are Hydrophillic and will help to suck water through the ventile rather then into the ventile. Some of their proofers are silicone based and although not recommended for the performance of ventile as mentioned in my previous post will not harm the material.
Bear in mind that we live for the enjoyment that the outdoors brings, we need to look at the products that Nikwax, Grangers, Storm et al make and ensure that we chose the environmentally friendly ones from their ranges.
bushtuckerman
08-02-2006, 16:47
Thanks mate, that's what i wanted to know :).
I agree, i don't know exactly what they put in the tech wash so i'll see if i can find out, but i have no intention of using fluorocarbons.If i object to compulsory fluoride in our water then i should object to putting harmful chemicals into the water source of another (not saying i know the practical and chemical difference between them when they enter the environment though).
You know, it's very cool that you guys have been so helpful to me in this thread. And after consideration, I've decided that I'm not going to bother proofing or treating my Ventile any longer. I spent the money on a fluorocarbon treatment for it, and truthfully, it did more harm than good. If I could find some sort of treatment for Ventile that would increase how water beads on the fabric but at the same time not inhibit the swelling properties of the fibres, I would be all for it. But....I don't think I'll ever find a substance that does both. Beading and water absorbtion are two opposites, and probably can't work together.
Besides, Ventile worked completely fine back in 1942 without treatments. I suppose it's sortof like what the Zippo lighter company says about it's old fashioned technology "Why fix what isn't broken?"
Adam
Graham O
08-02-2006, 18:33
I can't give any recommendations about what to treat Ventile with, but I can offer the following. The original Ventile, and still produced on the same equipment, is the L19 variant and if used for flying suits, has no proofing on it whatsoever. The intention is that it should absorb water and expand/contract (could we call it Ventile-ate?) as soon as possible. When an ejected pilot hits the water, he will typically go down about 5m and by the time he comes back up to the surface, his suit is fully waterproof and he is dry.
For the consumer market, we are concerned about the weight of our garments and their cosmetic appearance. By adding a small proofing to the Ventile, it sheds light showers and resists soiling. In time, the proofing will wear off and the fabric will absorb water immediately it comes in contact with it.
I hope that is of some interest.
bushtuckerman
08-02-2006, 18:55
is that because L19 is not so tightly woven as the other grades that it Ventil-ates so readily? Do they use one layer in flying suits?
Graham O
08-02-2006, 19:10
is that because L19 is not so tightly woven as the other grades that it Ventil-ates so readily? Do they use one layer in flying suits?
Quite the opposite. L19 is very tightly woven on old machines. These produce cloth which is just 90cm wide rather than the more modern machines which produce cloth 155cm wide. The bar which pushes the weft into the fabric (haven't got a clue what it is called) is narrower and being made of cast iron, doesn't bend like the newer machines. This gives a very tight weave across the fabric. Normal Ventile, L24 or L34 has 12000 threads across the width. L19, despite being much narrower, also has 12000 threads. It is an interesting process.
This was all information I was told some time ago when I visited the mill, but whether it is still current I don't know. With the way things change, I'm probably talking a load of .........!
Don't know for sure about the number of layers on the flying suits, but I think it is just one.
bushtuckerman
08-02-2006, 21:35
ah right. well unless as you say the process has changed, i misunderstand the information on the website, but then i do have no knowledge or experience of weaving materials. It says it is the heaviest grade, but i seem not to get the consequences of that, as i thought that would mean there would be fewer, thicker threads. I also assumed that a less dense material would absorb wate more readily when the pilots ditch.
I guess their being able to breathe is most important since they have to cope with sudden changes in pressure, so two layers might be overkill.
Oh gosh no, double layer is not overkill! If anything, it's better than single layer Ventile. I've seen single layer stuff, and my experience has been that once it wets out, there's really nothing to stop the "ventile-ated" cotton (thanks Graham) from touching whatever you're wearing underneath. Double layer adds just that, a second layer. This gives the wearer that much added protection. Like I said, the only places double layer soaks through is through the seams. This is because apart from the seams, the two layers are not touching.
Basically what I was getting at is that my proofing didn't really make too much of a difference on my jacket. The water beaded up for a while, but it seemed to disappear after a time. I heat treated the garment, but it still didn't do a whole lot. Either way you look at it, I still stay dry in bad weather!
Like Graham says, the issued stuff isn't proofed in the least bit. And anyway, I'm not the least bit worried about the cosmetic appearance of mine, it's incredibly sun faded and has had a few holes sewn up, as well as new cuffs and waist drawstring hems added.
Cheers guys,
Adam
Graham O
09-02-2006, 11:08
To get back to the original proofing adventure thread, Ventile is coated with a flurocarbon to reduce initial water uptake and for dirt and stain resistance. When it wears off the recommended reproofing is Grangers Extreme Waterproofing for Naturals. Which, hopefully, does what it says on the bottle!
bushtuckerman
09-02-2006, 15:04
sorry addyb, perhaps i wasn't so clear, i meant in terms of immersion suits, not jackets. on the talbot weaving site it's mentioned that ventile suits increased survival times from roughly 3 to 20 mins during war time.
Thanks Graham, i'll bear that in mind for mine. So, presumably, if ventile is supplied in this way that is how it reaches the hands of the military, unless they specify otherwise, but maybe not back in '43. Does this mean though, that when they say on their website that "ventile is not coated" that it is not bonded to a membrane, but is however treated? Are the "Resistance to water hydrostatic head" measurements based on fluorocarbon treated ventile? sorry for all the questions!
really very grateful for all the info.
Damn, this is so not cool. *bangs head on desk* I bought Storm Fluorocarbon proofing because I had heard that the silicone in Nikwax was bad for Ventile, and no-one in Nanaimo here carried Grangers Naturals. Wow, looks like I've got something that's really great for stain resistance.
Adam, who will now quietly sip his morning coffee and weep. :(
billycan
03-12-2007, 18:04
I'm sorry to dredge this thread up from the search function, but after reading throught this thread and other old ones first, i am more confused...
So what is the proper way to treat ventile, based on this thread Nickwax seems not to be good for ventile.
So any ideas/views/ ventile users experiences would be much appreciated, as my double layer smock is starting to leak.
once again sorry to dredge this up, but i wanted to clarify the matter.
I'm sorry to dredge this thread up from the search function, but after reading throught this thread and other old ones first, i am more confused...
So what is the proper way to treat ventile, based on this thread Nickwax seems not to be good for ventile.
So any ideas/views/ ventile users experiences would be much appreciated, as my double layer smock is starting to leak.
once again sorry to dredge this up, but i wanted to clarify the matter.
Don't apologise, tis an interesting thread...
I would like to know if westwinds treat their jackets with sommit, because the water beads up on mine. Sounds like it won't always though...
maverick moocher
03-12-2007, 18:43
I'm sure that some ventile products must have a spray on treatment on them 'cos they do seem to bead the water off quite well, so a spray on must be the way to go for a leaky jacket? I've tried the wash in ones as well with some success but with the nature of the material i've not been that confident of its effectiveness. I've just bought a SASS Smock in " All weather fabric " OG. This has a finish on it that allows the water to bead off and it works very well.
billycan
03-12-2007, 20:36
Thanks guys, I am sure that ventile is treated with something when you get it, as my smock when it first came it shed the water well, but now its started abosrbing it round the back of my neck and shoulders, and i need to treat it this week to take it away on a trip with me.
I'm sure that some ventile products must have a spray on treatment on them 'cos they do seem to bead the water off quite well, so a spray on must be the way to go for a leaky jacket? I've tried the wash in ones as well with some success but with the nature of the material i've not been that confident of its effectiveness. I've just bought a SASS Smock in " All weather fabric " OG. This has a finish on it that allows the water to bead off and it works very well.
I figure that a thin layer sprayed on would be the only way to do it and still maintain the ventile ability to swell up easily where water does pass through that water repellent layer.
Something worth trying would be if water beads on the inside of a ventile layer where it has beaded on the outer.
Spacemonkey
03-12-2007, 23:45
I treated my suit to spray on Grangers Extreme for naturals and then tumble dried it and ironed it. No rpoblems, and it works still, the only trouble came from washing it in the first place (with a ventile washing fluid) as now i have white crease lines from the fabric rubbing around in my machine. Great...
Wow, this is an O-L-D thread and its nice to see it still getting page hits!
I wouldn't worry about the white crease lines Spacemonkey, no one's going to poke fun at the appearance of your clothes in the bush. (At least I hope not)
Cheers,
Adam
Spacemonkey
04-12-2007, 08:50
True, but i wear it everyday too...
True, but i wear it everyday too...
....that would present a problem then!
This is a great thread, certainly the most informative thread we have on ventile and treating it. Any more comments and experience on care and proofing of ventile would be very interesting. My SASS smock works well in light showers and in heavy showers water does soak right though the arms and lower back but is completely dry on the head and shoulder's where there is an additional layer of ventile which now has me desiring a double layered ventile jacket. Does anyone know is SASS kit can modify an existing smock to be double layered? I've sent an email but never got a reply! Infact they have never replied to any emails I sent them regarding the care/proofing instructions for their own smocks... weird!
I've just bought some Nikwax products while they were on offer with the intention of washing and proofing my SASS smock which does have a few patches of dirt especially on the elbows. After reading through this thread it makes me just want to wash this on a low heat with plain water and not go near the techwash, tx spray and cotton proof that I've just bought! What do you guys think?
Also does anyone know what grade of ventile SASS use for their smocks as there are varying grades of weave as described here - http://www.ventile.co.uk/uses.htmlx I know it is not officially ventile but standard oxford weave, but it would be interesting to know what grade it would be equivilent to. I'm hoping L19 rather than L24!
Also does anyone know what grade of ventile the other ventile jacket makes such as snowsled, hilltrek and country innovations use? It seems out of all the grades, the L19 would seem to make for a very hard wearing and very warm double layered ventile jacket.
I'll email these companies right away and post back their repsonses.
I've just had my SASS smock stretched out over the kitchen sink and allowed the tap to rinse over a single layer part of the smock on a low pressure and soon enough the water was dripping at a high speed on to my hand which was positioned under the area being soaked. I thought ventile wasn't supposed to let water through, only get damp? I'm beginning to think that while ventile is an excellent outdoor fabric, the expectations I have of it are very unrealistic and that at the end of the day this was stuff was invented in a hurry, with the materials and technology available back in the 1940's war years. Or maybe this SASS fabric is a lighter grade varient and that proper L19 ventile would not let water drip through??
treadlightly
27-01-2012, 08:36
Lubo, I have a Sass smock and have owned a Hilltrek ventile smock and I would say the fabrics are very similar and perform very similarly.
As to your water test, I would suggest that pouring water over stretched fabric - even with low pressure - does not replicate being out in rain. If you wear wool under the smock any water ingress is absorbed and does not soak through to your skin.
To borrow John Fenna's phrase once again - water management not water proofing.
Well in that case a double layer ventile is really the only way to go, who wants to be messing about with jacket liners in the middle of the night before getting ready for bed under the tarp? I just won this auction for an old 1960's double layer ventile jacket - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200701715653?ssPageName=STRK:M EWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I must admit though this will not be mine but my partners who has been looking for a good deal on a ventile jacket for ages, but she was only wanting to pay around the £100 mark so I'm going to have to help her pay for it which is fine by me as we can finally enjoy the great outdoors together, with proper kit. I hope it's 50 year age won't effect it's performance but it certainly dosn't show it's age if the photos are anything to go by.
I've ordered granger's XT spray which is reccomended by west winds for proofing ventile with, and will use my nikwax tech wash to clean it in when the jacket arrives.
Can't wait to test it out!
http://www.pic-nerd.com/v2/images/9dmd6qlb4gd3islfd0vp.jpg
http://www.pic-nerd.com/v2/images/pynyilf3hez4ot5wxe6.jpg
http://www.pic-nerd.com/v2/images/uclid1e4wo9dg5rwvo8.jpg
http://www.pic-nerd.com/v2/images/w4gi8g64cbmg4lkqz5cn.jpg
http://www.pic-nerd.com/v2/images/pn54xb6cijcsnizomv2.jpg
On second thoughts I won't be recieving this jacket after all due to disagreement over shipping charges, but I've had news back from Country Innovation and Snowslead and they both use L24 ventile.