View Full Version : Sharpening the Woodlore / Scandi Grind
I was just wondering if your keeping the 0 grind on your knives and laying the bevel flat on the stone when sharpening, or are you added a secondary bevel to the blade (using a sharpmaker).
Thanks
I'm not because it's not as good at cutting wood.
The sharpmaker is a cool tool but I think there is a danger of it making me lazy and giving everything I have into a secondary bevel :shock:
You can use the sharpmaker to maintain the 0 grind though quite easily but i'd rather use a stone.
I was just wondering if your keeping the 0 grind on your knives and laying the bevel flat on the stone when sharpening, or are you added a secondary bevel to the blade (using a sharpmaker).
Thanks
well a bit of both really. though i tend to sharpen most of my knives on a sheet of wet'n'dry on a pad, they tend to become slightly convexed. i still touch 'em up occasionally with a sharp maker.
cheers, and.
I Cant find my oil stones :-x , so i use 1000 to 6000 grit, and follow Mr Mears advice in essential bushcraft.
But getting the secondary bevel off is such a job.........almost there!
Cheers,
Jake
Jake......I got the Micarta and it came with a secondary bevel on it so I've been working on mine on and off for ages to try and get the 0 edge on it proper.
The tip is done now (don't how I managed that first, must have been closer to the 0 edge when it came) and I'm getting close on the rest of the blade.
I've been using an 800 waterstone, followed by a 1000/6000 when I need to take it out to use etc. Some of the blokes on the site have suggested getting something coarser, like 250 or so, to get the edge down more quickly. So I'll be off to the motor factors for some wet and dry when I get a chance to try and speed it up a bit.
I think Martyn said it took him about 10 hours of work. :shock:
I think Martyn said it took him about 10 hours of work. :shock:
Not far off anyway. Course, I had plenty of coffee and fag breaks. :)
I didn't possess a really course stone, or I would have used it. I used what I'd got - medium oilstones (which is why it took so long) to get it down to a wire edge, then finished with waterstones. It is a long job, without doubt. Once done, there is NO WAY i'd deliberately put a secondary bevel back onto it.
Hjaltlander
04-02-2004, 16:35
Sorry guys,
But what on earth is a secondary bevel? I have to ask as i got one of the WS Micarta's on Xmas eve, and if it means what i think it does i ain't got one, i think?
If that makes any sense, Karl
here...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/profile.jpg
Examine your knife very, very closely because the secondary bevel may be very small. If it's a true 0 edge, the primary bevels will go all the way to the edge as in example A above.
If you have a secondary bevel, such as in example B, then it's recommended you grind it down to a 0 bevel using the angles of the primary bevel as a guide...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/grind5.jpg
You can see above, that you need to preserve the original primary bevel angles and take a lot of metal off the knife in order to achieve a true 0 edge, this is why it takes so long.
You can see in this picture, a maple woodlore with true 0 edge (as it came from the shop) and beneath it, a micarta woodlore with a mall secondary bevel...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/grind6.jpg
You can just see a faint white line on the edge, where the light is reflecting off the secondary edge bevel.
Hi,
I still havent found my oilstones :-x , I used wet and dry paper once years ago, but have forgotten all the details of the grits etc...
My secondary bevel on one side is pretty much gone, but it has taken me too long already, what grit wet'n'dry would i use? (or are they all the same?)
You can see in this picture, a maple woodlore with true 0 edge (as it came from the shop)
Is there a woodlore shop? if so would it be better but your knife in the shop (make sure it has no secondary bevel)?
Im doing the fundamental Bushcraft course in 2005, so should i wait and choose a knife from them?
Cheers,
Jake
...figure of speach Jake, I bought em off the web.
Just keep going, you'll get there. Yes there are different grits, it usually says on the back of each sheet what the grit is, 40 being rough as a bears a**e, 2000 being baby's bum grade. :wink:
Oh.......oops!
Umm, which would take off the metal most effectively without wrecking the blade?
Cheers,
Jake
Hjaltlander
05-02-2004, 04:04
Hi Guy's
Ok, thanks for the pictures, yes a secondary bevel was what i thought, and on closer inspection to the blade of my WS Micarta, i do have the slightest bevel.
Oh well, it'll give me something to do on these long winter night's
Take care, Karl
Maybe we could form a Single Bevel 0 Edge support group to get us through the difficult days ahead!!!
C_Claycomb
05-02-2004, 10:44
Jake,
Whenever I have an edge that really isn't the shape I want I go at it with my 240 grit waterstone. I then get most of the scratches out with 400-600 went and dry on a hard surface, then carry on with a 1000 water stone. I now have a 6000 grit finishing stone, but the 1000grit gave a pretty good edge when stropped.
You need to be a bit careful not to get 240 grit scratches on the wrong part of the blade, but with a single bevel that is pretty easy to avoid, and anyway, it is only cosmetic, they can be got out with wet and dry paper.
You gotta be trying pretty hard to ruin a knife with a sharpening stone. Despite giving it my best try with a bench grinder (once), I have yet to do so!
You pullin me leg Jake?
Sorry if it seems so!! But im honestly not!
Great, i'll get down to B&Q this week sometime......400-600 right?
If i were to buy a whole load of grits, would that substitute some stones? (im probably completely wrong and now look pretty stupid)
Cheers,
Jake
Nothing stupid about asking questions Jake :wink:
No worries Jake, I guess I've been thinking "knives" for so long i get a bit of "tunnel vision" :-D
I'd go for a selection of grits from 240 up to the highest you can find, but go to at least 1000. Start with the 240 and do as much work with that grit as you need to, to get your 0 edge. Try to "raise a wire" along the whole edge with 240 grit. That means grind away until you can feel a small "lip" on one side. Then it's time for the higher grits, work up through then, doing 10 strokes per side. By the time you get to 1000 grit, you'll have a nice edge. The really super-fine hair popping edge comes with practice. :wink:
MartiniDave
06-02-2004, 10:49
Jake,
Try taking a look at Hoodoo's post in the "How do you know when its sharp enough" thread in this forum. The hones he pictured work very well and I think you'll find the answers you're looking for in that thread.
Dave
I'd put a link but I don't know how!
http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/community/viewtopic.php?t=947
martyn, great graphics!
for simple links to other threads, open up a second window with the thread you want to link to, right click on the address bar, scroll down to copy. then go to the window with your reply, right click, and paste.
cheers, and.
Hjaltlander
07-02-2004, 07:21
Hi again,
Another question, why don't you want a secondary bevel on your blade?
What's the benefit or not of different blade profiles?
Thanks, Karl
then get most of the scratches out with 400-600 went and dry on a hard surface, then carry on with a 1000 water stone. I now have a 6000 grit finishing stone, but the 1000grit gave a pretty good edge when stropped.
Would i wet the Wet and dry before hand? I assume so, but i know very little about it!
cheers,
Jake
The flat grind is the prefered grind for wood carving... it has a good 'bite'... and as wood is the main resource of the bushcrafter.... most bushcraft knives seem to have flat grinds.
The secondary bevel makes the edge a little stronger than on a traditional flat grind... it wont 'bite' so well into wood (though not much difference with only a tiny secondary bevel), but is great for skinning and game preperation...
Ed
re the secondary bevel: the world of things to be cut is divided into two groups, non-compressable materials, or compressable materials. otherwise known as wood and everthing else.
your average shop bought knife has a relatively large secondary bevel, as already said it makes the edge nice and strong. with string, meat, rope and any other squashy material it makes no odds. the material squashes and moves round the big bevel. wood can't be squashed, so it won't move round the big secondary bevel. the net result is you can only take the tiniest cuts or chips out of a piece of wood. if you spend a lot of time carving pot hangers, spoons, trap triggers feathersticks and so on, the secondary bevel is a major pain.
cheers ,and.
Hjaltlander
08-02-2004, 03:08
Thanks guy's for explaining that to me, makes perfect sense when i think about it. I suppose you'd really want to carry a couple of knives, one for general work, skinning, gutting, cutting ropes, etc. And another for any wood work without a secondary bevel.
Cheers, Karl
Well, knives aren't *that* task exclusive. A knive that is good at general work, will also cut wood, a knife that will cut wood, will also do general work. It's jjust a question of deciding where your priorities are. For bushcrafters, generally cutting wood factors very highly on the list. Any single bevel knife that is good for woodcutting, will also do just fine for cutting rope, skinning game etc.
well i'm sort of going to disagree with martyn, he is right, but some tasks are less design specific than others...
the woodlore standard makes a great wood carving knife, try slicing a swede (turnip like vegetable) not one of our northern cousins, and you won't like it. but it makes a good potatoe peeler. the scandanavian or zero bevel edge is a bit less robust than some.
the woodlore standard will do just about any other knife task no problem. though some folks will suggest that it makes a poor fillet knife.
a big thick combat/survival knife with a large steep secondary bevel will be pants at: peeling potatoes, carving wood, slicing swedes (turnip like vegetable) not one of our northern cousins, and sharpening pencils. it will cut string and helicopters quite adequately. (being a bit facetious) :oops:
a really thin knife with a slight shallow secondary bevel will do most of the above tasks quite happily. but it may suffer some serious damage if you try to baton it through a knotty lump of wood.
all in all the idea of carrying more than one knife is a very sound one. you might choose a woodlore/woodlore clone and a large (long blade) swiss army knife, or an opinel. you might decide that with a hatchet, a frosts clipper is a perfectly adequate tool. the choices are limitless.
however, if you do find "the one knife" let us know 'cause i want one! 8-) :lol:
cheers, and.
I agree with you Sargey, just pointing out that you dont *have* to have the others. Add a GrannyB, laplander saw, opinel, crook knife & leatherman wave to your woodlore and you have all bases covered with specialist tools - nice, for sure.
But as you point out, the woodlore (or scandi equiv) will carve wood, split logs, skin & butcher, cut rope, peel spuds and although not particularly good at it, you can slice carrots effectively enough to get em into a pot. :)
and although not particularly good at it, you can slice carrots effectively enough to get em into a pot. :)
If you're having trouble slicing your carrots with your Woodlore surely the solution is to use a baton?
If you're in the kitchen then a roling pin is a good choice (but not your best marble one)
:rolmao: :rolmao:
MartiniDave
09-02-2004, 09:58
I spent about an hour yesterday removing the breast fillets from a dozen or so woodpigeon.
I started out using my woodlore, but after a couple of birds switched to my helle eggen which has a bit thinner blade, which I found to be better for that specific task.
Incidentally I have used opinels for this kind of job for about 30 years now and the truth is, they work just as well as the more expensive blades, limitations of a folding design not withstanding.
For general bushcraft type use the woodlore and helle are prety evenly matched, untill we get to the firesteel!
I do my sharpening on what I'm told was my grandfathers spare razor stone - an incredibly fine waterstone - and my dads razor strop.
Stay sharp,
Dave
If you're having trouble slicing your carrots with your Woodlore surely the solution is to use a baton?
If you're in the kitchen then a roling pin is a good choice (but not your best marble one)
:mrgreen: :o): :mrgreen: :o\:
If you're having trouble slicing your carrots with your Woodlore surely the solution is to use a baton?
:lol:
martyn, i'm not so sure, i have tried to cut back on the number of knives i take to the woods, i really have tried...
:lol:
cheers, and.
There are times when I still go out carrying kilos of steel!!!! :-D
If you're having trouble slicing your carrots with your Woodlore surely the solution is to use a baton?
:lol:
martyn, i'm not so sure, i have tried to cut back on the number of knives i take to the woods, i really have tried...
:lol:
cheers, and.