View Full Version : Winter Baselayer
I've been looking around for a winter baselayer to wear under a Swanni and settled on a Swedish Army version having looked at one and talked to Johan at the Wilderness Gathering. Plenty of flexibility with the way the neck opening is made - can be worn high or rolled down, open or zipped up. Here's the link if anyone's interested (I couldn't resist one of the cotton shirts as well for next spring/summer)
http://www.nordicbushcraft.com/shop/index.htm
What's your preferred winter baselayer?
arctic hobo
16-10-2005, 20:13
Ulfrotte 400g - just like that one you link to, but it's wool so it won't burn, or smell, or get soaking in sweat. Also it is terry knit so it feels as soft as cotton :)
Arktis Antarctica stuff is very good, Leon & I have both used it for many years (its very tried and tested :rolleyes: ). If you are on a budget look at the yank ECWCS base layer, mine cost me £4 for the shirt and £3 for the long johns (makes ideal sleep wear). To go over the swanni try a HH field jacket, the 80% wool version from Endicotts is the best around, and far better to use around fires.
Swanni's own merino base layer is very good, I use it on any trip longer then one night (you don't chill when you stop and you don't smell after a couple of days).
After spending a night on the moor last night, I begin to wonder if we will get cold weather ever again :( - Dartmoor , mid October - sweated my bits off in my ME TDS and wish I `had taken the £20 survivor bag that is smaller than a loaf of bread and is 15 years old!).
Keep your base layer to a minimum, while working (although in Lapland @ -25, I still found a pair of lycra shorts and a pair of Fjallraven wind-proof trousers enough), although the extra layer was usefull when you stopped. In this mode you are better off with a "chinease fighting suit" or Buffalo gear.
Neil
Falcon,
You really should get down soon, we can sit and extoll the virtues of the F1 (I'll post about our latest adventure soon).
Neil
Graham_S
16-10-2005, 21:42
i like the helly hansen prowool base layers.
Patra's knitted silk stuff :D
Linen is excellent too as an underlayer especially under wool.
Cheers,
Toddy
I don't know if some of you have noticed, but the newest synthetic baselayers don't stink. At all. I remember my Dad's old polypro from way back when, it stunk so bad you didn't want to hike upwind from him.
And now I have Helly Hansen "Improved Lifa" baselayer, and it simply will not absorb body odour. Hands down.
Yes, wool won't burn, won't stink, absorbs lots of water and still feels dry, doesn't get clammy. But it eventually gets soaked, and takes ages to dry. And I can't stand hiking in wet gear, even if I'm warm.
I know it's personal preference, but there are certain outdoor situations where natural's are just not acceptable.
Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? Comments?
having tried my new Howies merrino wool stuff recently - you cann't go wrong with them.
plus the they very helpful and a very ethical / green company. I'll be going back.
gregorach
17-10-2005, 15:17
Yeah, the merino baselayers from Howies are great! :)
steven andrews
17-10-2005, 21:02
Howies for me three.
steven andrews
17-10-2005, 22:10
And now I have Helly Hansen "Improved Lifa" baselayer, and it simply will not absorb body odour. Hands down.
I see they now do a Military Lifa..link (http://www.thebunkerdirect.com/detail_1167_1_42.cfm)
55% polypropylene
36% Merino wool
9% nylon
Wow, that stuff looks good! I might have to order some military Lifa!
Anyway, the way I see it is this:
Wool itself it not the best moisture-transferring material out there. But it's WARM.
Synthetics aren't the warmest materials out there, but in terms of moisture transfer, they can't be beat.
In an earlier thread someone (I can't remember who) quoted from a magazine and I think it said something like this: (Correct me if I'm wrong)
"If you were to look on a mountain at the people sitting around in the snow, chances are they were wearing wool. The people sitting shivering were probably wearing synthetics."
Ring a bell?
Anyway, the point I'm getting at is this: High performance athletes such as biathlon competitors, long-distance runners and the like tend to wear a lot of synthetic materials. Why? It's because of moisture transfer. When you're working hard, and sweating bucks, you need a baselayer that will actively push that moisture away from you, something wool is a bit slow at. Unfortunately, synthetics don't insulate very well.
On the other hand, low-intensity very cold weather workers such as hunters, loggers, and fisherman tend to wear a lot of wool Why? It's because of warmth. That's the benefit of wool, it keeps you WARM. And because it absorbs a bit of moisture, it keeps you from feeling clammy, and maintains a good temperature during low-intensity activities. But it won't actively push moisture away from the body as quickly as a synthetic material.
Have a look at this graph. (http://www.hhworkwear.com/products/bodywear/intro4.php)
That's the thing, it depends on what you're doing. Steven being the genius he is, posted a link for a mixed baselayer.
Synthetic on the inside to transfer moisture, and wool on the outer to insulate.
Mmm...technology's a wonderful thing!
Here is the actual and my favorite quote from Garrett and Alexandra Conover's Winter Wilderness Companion
Next time you see a lunch-stop shot in someone’s slide show, you’ll be able to pick out who has what for underwear as if you had X-ray vision. Those flopped comfortably in the snow are probably-wearing layers of wool, and those standing with hunched shoulders and pinched expressions are probably desperately trying to heat up moisture trapped in a layer or two of synthetics.
Each year, news of the latest synthetics is covered exhaustively in outdoor magazines. The outdoor magazine trade is almost entirely funded by advertising contracts with purveyors of synthetics, and few editors are brave enough to offend their backers. Most of what follows concerns the virtues of natural fibers, as they are rapidly being forgotten. A whole generation of outdoor enthusiast has grown up in the age of synthetics and has no way of knowing whether alternatives exist or what they might be.
An excellent cold weather book. From my review:
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=129
Brynje makes a dual layer underwear with poly net on the inside and wool on the outside. I am very curious about this but it is very very expensive.
http://www.brynje.no/public/index.php?cccpage=webshop_l1&set_z_qm_product_grp1=1
I wear Brynje poly net during the spring and summer months and have worn it under my smartwool, but since it is rarely cold enough for that here, I probably will never order any of their Arctic underwear.
I am still a total advocate of the thin 200g/m2 pure wool underwear over any of the poly stuff I own....this may be because I have slowed down considerably over the years but I actually think it feels so much better active or non-active than the usual poly stuff.
Yeah, that's the quote I was referring to.
I'm still young and stupid, and haven't slowed down a bit. :o
daveymonkey
18-10-2005, 19:32
i like the north cape rhovyl stuff, and its made in the good old uk!
I'm going to have a look at some italian l/wiehgt wool base layer stuff at Endicotts tommorow, it sounds very good, long sleeves, crew neck and very reasonably priced. I'll keep everyone posted.
Neil
Spacemonkey
25-10-2005, 22:03
I'm going to buy my first thermals this year, mainly for on my bike, and for when wading in the sea under goretex waders flyfishing. What do you think would be the most suitable for static on the bike and wading, yet can cope with the long walk TO the sea? I was wondering about silk thermals? What's the score? Do wool thermies itch? I have very sensitive skin... :)
Well I have one of the wool base layers, its extremely lightweight, long sleeved with a crew neck and a cream sort of a colour. I think a couple of washes with a little fabric softener may be in order as it is a little "starchy", but on the whole it seems very well made and EXTREMELY good value for money.
Those of you going to the dartmoor meet this weekend will get to see it.
Neil
I've been looking around for a winter baselayer to wear under a Swanni and settled on a Swedish Army version having looked at one and talked to Johan at the Wilderness Gathering. Plenty of flexibility with the way the neck opening is made - can be worn high or rolled down, open or zipped up. Here's the link if anyone's interested (I couldn't resist one of the cotton shirts as well for next spring/summer)
http://www.nordicbushcraft.com/shop/index.htm
What's your preferred winter baselayer?
Hi Falcon...........This winter (if we get one) I shall mostly be wearing something like a low alpine dryflo T shirt with a polartec 100 fleece on top, then followed by wool garments or more fleeces and a windproof . I do not agree with what most people have been saying about freezing in synthetics. I find one of the most important things to wear when standing around is a windproof, either in or on top of the layering system you use. Keep the wind out and you keep warmer................Jon
Thanks for the comments. My position has been that I want something to wear under the Swanni both to avoid itching and with the zipped roll neck. I get pretty hot when active and the zip will enable me to vent heat but have roll neck protection when required. I also tend to use synthetic baselayers for the wicking factor and put on extra layers if I chill. I also bought a Swazi baselayer at the Midland Game Fair. All we need now is some colder weather to test these theories or the baselayers could even stay in the wardrobe !
Graham_S
26-10-2005, 17:59
the lifa prowool baselayers are synthetic backed merino wool.
running bare
26-10-2005, 19:23
what do ypu reckon to 50% cotton 50% polyester thermals any good??
tom
Graham_S
26-10-2005, 19:41
i avoid anything with cotton as a baselayer except in the desert where it is good at keeping you cool. everywhere else i just get chilled as it soaks up sweat like a sponge.
I'm going to buy my first thermals this year, mainly for on my bike, and for when wading in the sea under goretex waders flyfishing. What do you think would be the most suitable for static on the bike and wading, yet can cope with the long walk TO the sea? I was wondering about silk thermals? What's the score? Do wool thermies itch? I have very sensitive skin... :)
Bear in mind that the water pressure on the outside of the goretex will tend to crush fluffy (fleece) fabrics and reduce insulation. Something bulky is a good thing when wading in the cold.
I've found barbour merino thermals good, but they are pretty thin. No noticeable itch (but I'm not a sensitive sort)
Jim.
Beer Monster
27-10-2005, 10:29
I see they now do a Military Lifa..link (http://www.thebunkerdirect.com/detail_1167_1_42.cfm)
55% polypropylene
36% Merino wool
9% nylon
Just thought I'd point out that I think the military LIFA isn't the prowool version as detailed above. It's just the standard LIFA in olive green i.e. its 100% polypropylene, no merino etc.
Has anyone tried or use regually the snugpak 2nd skinz? They sell them reasonably cheap here at work and feel like they will be nice and warm.
I was looking for reviews on the web but couldn't find much information about them.
steven andrews
09-11-2005, 21:29
Just thought I'd point out that I think the military LIFA isn't the prowool version as detailed above. It's just the standard LIFA in olive green i.e. its 100% polypropylene, no merino etc.
Ah. Sorry.
jay120970
11-11-2005, 17:33
buffalo 6 shirt and m65 canvass jacket over the top
any thoughts
Buffalo are a good heavy layer, can't see the need for the M65 as the Pertex of the Buffalo is both shower resistant and windproof.
M65's are generally a polycotton, they can be proofed to improve thier resistance to water but that is about as far as they go.
I would look for a good base layer to go with the Buffalo and possibly a waterproof for when it gets really foul out there.
jay120970
12-11-2005, 12:57
the canvass jacket is generly for keeping the sparks and ruff stuff of the expencive buffalo top after buying this great top am i dont fancy getting it melted lol plus depends on what your doing colleting wood building shelters etc saves ware n tare as the jackets are cheap and expendable
but i know what you mean about the buffalo being enough on its own
my m65 is 100% cotton canvass with the large white lable inside
I use a nice Tog 24 base layer I picked up in a sale a few years ago. Alternative I've got a couple of thermal wicking T-shirt things by various companies, and, if all else fails, I've got some nasty OG army ones - although they proper honk now!!!
I only wear these if absolutely neccessary - normally it's Buffalo (well, the Arktis Mammouth ripoff Buffalo!) next to the skin to enable it all to wick away the sweat better!
wanderinstar
13-11-2005, 12:19
Has anyone used Damart Thermals, as there has been no mention of them on here? If anyone has ,whats the verdict?
Ian.
I don't know much about Damart thermals....
except that James Bond was wearing them in Iceland in John Gardner's "Icebreaker"
:p
Has anyone used Damart Thermals, as there has been no mention of them on here? If anyone has ,whats the verdict?
Ian.
I have found that Damart thermals are ok until they are washed, then they shrink but only in the legs/arms. If you buy them a size or two too big after washing they fit on the leg/arm but are loose around the waist/chest . (I only used them when I was driving forklift trucks. Loading and unloading trucks in unheated warehouses, so don’t know what they are like to wear when traveling/camping)