View Full Version : Snow and best cars for coping (non-4x4s and cheap)
I was driving home in the snow in the Lakes on saturday and was watching people have difficulties. Some were slipping from side to side and wheel spinning on relatively easy slopes but others weren't. You could see big heavy cars and light or puny cars doing well and having difficulty.
That got me thinking what are the good points to have on an ordinary, inexpensive car that gets it through the snow. Assuming no winter tyres and no 4x4 just the same car that you'd have in the summer, what is it that makes some cars ok in snow?? What would be a good car to have year round that would be most likely to cope with the odd snow in winter. Bear in mind winter has only really been bad for a lot of people this winter and the previous two.
My theory is that it has to be a diesel due to the low revs and higher torque that they usually have. I also think that the extra engine weight I believe they have could help too. Then avoiding low profile and wide tyres too perhaps but not too narrow. A small car with thin tyres was really struggling in Ambleside. Also on the road south from Windermere the cars abandoned on the hill were mostly sporty cars with low profile tyres.
Any other characteristics that would stand a car in good stead in winter?
BTW my car is a lowly astra T diesel estate from late 2002. It was mightily impressive but I was not confident though. At the risk of blowing my own trumpet I reckon my driving was good too. I handled the clutch well and steering (skidded a lot and the front was moving a bit at times even at 30mph max speed everyone was doing). I suppose drivers make a big difference too. Higher gear and lower revs and all that. Plus good car control all add to getting home or paying out for expensive B&Bs (who probably would cash in too).
It's not the cars it's the drivers. Snow chains help a lot, where I live in France the police will wheel-clamp your car if you haven't got them.
not being silly enough to drive in conditions that a normal road car on normal tyres can handle safely is the biggest mod i would make to most people, those auto socks seen to do the trick for most cars\vans, if your on snow not ice, airing down your tyres will help traction BUT if you have no means to pump them back up you will have dangerous handling at anything over 5 mph, think of it as a means of getting unstuck,
mountainm
08-02-2012, 17:39
I would echo the opinion that in most cases it's the driver not the car. No sudden movement with plenty of anticipation is the key.
lavrentyuk
08-02-2012, 17:43
When at work I have access to a softroader 4x4, various Ford Transit Connects and the odd Ford Focus and Fiesta. Far and away the best in snow is the Fiesta though. I have a memory of coping admirably in an old Citroen 2CV. Just remember that a Front Wheel Drive is nearly as good as a 4x4 in these circumstances.
Chains or Socks help but the main thing is the driver. Nothing with too low a ground clearance mind as it will dig in the body in even a moderate drift.
The 245 35 19 sport tyres on my motor are next to useless in the snow, any slight hill and I'm stopping without momentum. 220bhp and a big fat turbo to the front wheels doesn't help either.
I'm seriously considering a 4x4 for sake of a week of snow once a year.
I was in Germany a week of so ago, sub zero conditions a lot of the time, lots of snow about both wet slushy and dry and crispy, there didnt seem to be huge problems but then again everyone runs on proper winter tyres and actually drove to the conditions..... mostly
What would be a good car to have year round that would be most likely to cope with the odd snow in winter.
The answer to your problems (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/panda-4x4-/280821141924?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item41623e91a4#ht_500wt_1 202)
:)
mountainm
08-02-2012, 17:54
The answer to your problems (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/panda-4x4-/280821141924?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item41623e91a4#ht_500wt_1 202)
:)
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooo. Pandas don't even start in winter. Every winter I used to push one up Derby road for about 500m's to bump start the begger. That includes going around a roundabout.
The answer to your problems (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/panda-4x4-/280821141924?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item41623e91a4#ht_500wt_1 202)
:)
2wd or 4wd, if you cant put the power to the road it wont help at all. I was always suspect of winter tyres but having seen them in action im a convert, that said the ones i have seen in the UK dont seem to be the same as the ones over there!
1993 Renault Clio with the cheapest tires going and I've always been fine. It's more than 50% the driver IMO.
If I total that, I've always got an inherited Rover Metro waiting in my garage. Total babe magnet that one. Bet it's a beast in heavy snow too!
Bucephalas
08-02-2012, 18:08
I was in Ystradfellte last week and watched the odd Landie just about make it up a very snowy/icy hill. Twice I saw a snallisg van nip up them with no problems and on the last day I saw it was Welsh water.
It didn't look like a 4WD but unless the driver had mastered the art of levitation, it was a damn fine 4WD sonething or other.
Johnnyboy1971
08-02-2012, 18:10
Ive just sold an Audi A6 and that was pants in the snow but if you want a good reliable car that handles the snow
Volkswagen passat 2.0 tdo 4motion. Had this car last year and copes with almost everything.
There have been two topics about winter driving.
I live in Estonia where the winters are pretty harsh and the government is too poor to clean up most roads properly. Winter tyres are mandatory and so is a winter driving exam.
The first topic is here, with my post: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82157&page=2&p=994820&highlight=#post994820
And the second topic with my post on tyres: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76989&p=935040&highlight=#post935040
Hope they help!
Short version: 1. It's the driver, 2. It's the tyres, 3. It's 4wd
Knowing when not to go out is the key. I have a fast lowered BMW with coilovers & wide tyres. Fantastic on normal roads & goes through roundabouts like it is on rails but is useless on even 1mm of ice/snow. I simply try not to drive it when there is snow or ice around. If I have to go out I stick to the main roads & try to check with someone at the destination to see what the roads are like there before I leave. Am going to get a pair of snow socks as a backup and have thick rubber mats that have got me home several times now. This is why I am convincing myself that I need a Jeep Wrangler in my life...
forestwalker
08-02-2012, 19:58
2wd or 4wd, if you cant put the power to the road it wont help at all. I was always suspect of winter tyres but having seen them in action im a convert, that said the ones i have seen in the UK dont seem to be the same as the ones over there!
Winter tyres come in many different models, made for different climates. Here I have Nordman, which is Nokians budget brand. made for the north, so they are soft and grippy even at -30 C. Plenty of depth in pattern, sips and metal studs (which you can't have in the UK?). But in warm weather they would be way to soft and wear out fast.
The answer to your problems (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/panda-4x4-/280821141924?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item41623e91a4#ht_500wt_1 202)
:)
Don't knock the Panda!! There was a survey about 15 years or so ago in the Telegraph or sunday times motoring section for the car with the greatest mileage still in use in UK. IIRC there were quite a few FIAT Pandas up there in the high mileage list. Including a 4x4 version. One person who had one lived in the countryside but couldn't afford a much needed 4x4 but could the panda version. They'd never been stuck in since getting it and even cut across fields when necessary in it. Seems they are just about the only Italian car to be reliable. At least the older versions back then. Reckon Italian cars are better now though.
Vans and small transit type bed truck all seemed to handle the snow as well as the normal 4x4s I noticed. There were quite a few more modded 4x4s out I noticed. I am not talking about the sort you actually might see off road but the real bling type 4x4s and 4x4 pickups with big tyres and lifted suspension but blacked out windows and all black and chrome. I never see a truly bling offroader in the Lakes apart from some animal type Mitsubishi pickups or equivalent from time to time. Last sunday I saw some really nice 4x4s. Things like double cab pickup landy (didn't know they made anything like them) with tinted windows, tyres you'd see on those arctic or nordic trucks made by that Icelandic company (well the smaller tyres they do not the truly huge ones). They were driving around for fun I reckon. I was stuck in a jam and saw the same fancy 4x4 go past on the wrong side of the road, come back then drive back again. Some decent offroaders were with that rescue group that has regions and in harsh winters and other difficult situations support emergency services to get to trapped people due to snow or floods. Can't remember the name but I reckon some were out to help people. Others where hooning around for fun I think. Liked the fancy 4x4s. Perhaps one day (after big lottery win).....
Knowing when not to go out is the key. I have a fast lowered BMW with coilovers & wide tyres. Fantastic on normal roads & goes through roundabouts like it is on rails but is useless on even 1mm of ice/snow. I simply try not to drive it when there is snow or ice around. If I have to go out I stick to the main roads & try to check with someone at the destination to see what the roads are like there before I leave. Am going to get a pair of snow socks as a backup and have thick rubber mats that have got me home several times now. This is why I am convincing myself that I need a Jeep Wrangler in my life...
This is true of all peoples lives, 4.0 is the only way to go!
Squidders
08-02-2012, 23:46
I drive a Volvo S60 and with winter mode on, the auto box is a dream on bad roads. For the few days a year we have snow in London I am not going to invest in a spare set of wheels with winter tyres on because the regular ones seem to cope well. The hayabusa is another story completely however.
demographic
09-02-2012, 01:16
Depends...
If your from the south and work as a reporter for the BBC apparently you will need a bloody half track and snow chains on the front
On the other hand if you live up in the north and blat about in a cheap car with skinny tyres you should manage by using a gear higher than normal, not hammering the crap out of the brakes and not driving like a complete charver.
rancid badger
09-02-2012, 10:02
I live a couple of hundred metres up, on the "rural fringe" of Tyne & Wear. We quite often have snow when the rest of the county is clear.
From 1991 Until 2008, no matter what car I owned, I always used to have a spare pair of wheels with soft compound mud/snow tyres for the winter. First sign of snow, on they would go and stay on regardless till about the back end of March.
I would get about 3 winters from a pair, that's apx 12 months on the car in that time.
I stopped using winter tyres in 2008 when I bought a new Fiesta,with low profile wheels and tyres, surprisingly okay in bad conditions including last winter, when we had 2-3 feet of snow for weeks on end.
I did invest in a pair of "snowsocks" but these were mostly only used to get me in and out of the estate, with one morning coming off night shift, where I fitted them at work and drove the full 9 miles or so, through horrendous conditions-max speed 30mph but never got above 20 that morning.Mind you, I also walked in to work a few times when I decided it would be too dangerous to take the car-a fantastically satisfying if tiring experience!
I'd say that if you want a good standard, basic car for the snow, you want a small, diesel engined front wheel drive, with fairly skinny tyres.
My brother had a small collection of 4x4 Pandas, indeed they're still there, though they'll never run again. He kept one going from the other three, all more or less scrappers, and he eventually ended up using the Panda very much like other folk might use a quad bike, collecting wind blown logs, hay bails, animal feed, etc etc, around the small holding.
The way I drive all through the year is to feel the way the car is behaving. It comes from the days I had a 1 litre Fiesta on skinny tyres that slipped around bends like it was riding on wet fish. That was on good Michelins or Pirellis too. I learnt to feel a slip happening and control it. Actually I learnt that on a proper mini even before that.
Anyway I never think of myself as a good driver but I haven't had an issue with snow so far. I just slow down, take any change in direction steadily and basically try to drive as smoothly as possible. Also I drive off in 2nd gear in snow. Switching my car to diesel was a good move I reckon. Even if the local cheap garage is 9p more for diesel than petrol.
I do remember in my youth regularly driving over the Woodhead and Snake Passes in my 850cc Mini, despite the roads being officially closed, and having relatively few difficulties in thick snow. Actually, apart from ground clearance, the Mini had all the right attributes - light weight, fwd, skinny tyres, decent (limited) power delivery.
Nowadays, the trusty ancient Ssangyong Musso TD in 4wd does the job nicely:)
Depends...
If your from the south and work as a reporter for the BBC apparently you will need a bloody half track and snow chains on the front
On the other hand if you live up in the north and blat about in a cheap car with skinny tyres you should manage by using a gear higher than normal, not hammering the crap out of the brakes and not driving like a complete charver.
this - never had a problem with driving in snow at all. take your time and anticipate where youre going, using the cars momentum if youre going uphill. the only problem i ever had was last year when the snow was two feet deep and the car didnt have the clearance.
the slipping and the sliding add to the fun and break the monotony of an otherwise routine journey
This is true of all peoples lives, 4.0 is the only way to go!
Yes I had a 4.0 Wrangler on Holiday before Christmas for 10 days & loved it. Every time I see one I get reminded...
Living in the north of Scotland there are certain times of the year when pretty much the only vehicles moving on the roads are 4wd and vehicles fitted with winter tyres. My wifes cars have always had winter tyres (one car was run on them all year round) and it makes a massive difference. There have been times in the past where her car would move and mine wouldn't. I now have a 4wd X-trail. Driving style has a big part to play, but the tyres certainly make it easier. Cars with narrow tyres tend to fair better than those with wide low profile tyres.
Emdiesse
10-02-2012, 12:52
I find my little 1.25 fiesta is an honoury off road vehicle. Managed to tackle all the hills last night with no problems at all, with standard tyres, whilst others were all over the place. A taxi span out in front of me (the one time you don't want rear wheel drive!) another (front wheel drive) car (or should I say driver) decided the best approach to tackling a hill was to slow right down before even tackling it to take it slowly from the off.... Needless to say, all momentum lost, they lost traction and that's it.... back at the start. I just picked up a little speed and kept it going, no problem at all. I notice cars with broad tyres also struggle as it seems they just sit on top of the snow and ice and get no traction. My little festa with its puny tyres my just cut through the snow and ice down to the road beneath. Great little car!!!
The taxi that span out had a colleague of mine in, it took him an hour an twenty to do a 20 minute journey... It took me the same time to do a journey usually an hour long!
Went scuba diving on sunday and we had to dig the transit and the minibus up out the hill... Who was the only guy who had a shovel in his car prepared for the snow!
This bushcraft and survival larky must be the influencing factor here.... I'm probably the only one out of the lot who had waterproof boots, trousers and jacket in the car also; I bet on here I am just one of many!
BillyBlade
10-02-2012, 13:17
The 245 35 19 sport tyres on my motor are next to useless in the snow, any slight hill and I'm stopping without momentum. 220bhp and a big fat turbo to the front wheels doesn't help either.
I'm seriously considering a 4x4 for sake of a week of snow once a year.
Thats what I did. My M3 is no use whatsoever in the snow. It was as cheap to get an old 4x4 as it was to get a set of all round winter tyres and wheels for the car. So, thats the road I went.
Emdiesse
10-02-2012, 13:22
It was as cheap to get an old 4x4 as it was to get a set of all round winter tyres and wheels for the car.
Interesting! What a perfect excuse! :D
BillyBlade
10-02-2012, 15:44
You can get a perfectly usuable 4x4 with low range etc for between £500-£1k. Get in :)
You can get a perfectly usuable 4x4 with low range etc for between £500-£1k. Get in :)
once you have spend £1500 abnd about 200 hours welding and rebuidling :lmao:
once you have spend £1500 abnd about 200 hours welding and rebuidling :lmao:
Mega offroaders no need for welding and rebuilding !
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mitsubishi-delica-l400-2-8-td-7-seater-4x4-camper-bus-space-gear-1995-/220950836600?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3371b23578
BillyBlade
10-02-2012, 16:36
once you have spend £1500 abnd about 200 hours welding and rebuidling :lmao:
Not always. Mine cost me £400. Hasnt needed anything but a mini service, and I did put a timing belt on it myself though.
I guess I must just be lucky.
Yorkshire
10-02-2012, 17:54
Its 90% driver 10% not having anything too powerful and no grip ha ha
My first car was a 1969 VW Beetle, rear wheel drive with skinny tyres. When it snowed me and 3 mates used to head off up Blubberhouses, near Menwith Hill and mess about driving through snow drifts & sliding round the carpark :). There was a good few inches of snow and never had a problem. We passed dozens of abandoned cars and came back into Skipton to find a police road block closing the road! They were amazed we'd been bombing about up there. Nothing like messing about in snow to learn how to drive in the stuff :)
Now I have a 7 seater fwd Toyota, with winter tyres on the front. Last weekend, I was the only non 4wd car to get up to my house in Haworth, I would still love a 4wd though ;)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Having had Mercs for many years and fed up of getting stuck last year I bought a Hyundia Santa Fe during the summer
Last weekend we had around 8" of snow in a few hours and I was one of teh few cars to make it onto my estate without any problems
The car was in 4wd with good tyres, switched into manual, traction control off , keep the revs up ( not silly ) but keeping momentum going
Very impressed with the car and able to switch back to 2wd auto as soon as snow cleared a bit
There is no substitute for a 4wd, I was towing people up hills that nothing else could get up without even the slightest wheelspin when we had bad snow the other day:D
A lot of it is the driver and people seem to think going balls out at it will get you through but it just doesnt work.
If you dont want a proper 4x4 my parents have got a subaru forester which is excellent in the snow even on road tyres, subaru legacy is also AWD and I bet you can pick then up for around £1k.
I like my disco though
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419542_10150634387918092_76220 8091_11134345_1098211767_n.jpg
demographic
11-02-2012, 21:48
My first car was a 1969 VW Beetle, rear wheel drive with skinny tyres. When it snowed me and 3 mates used to head off up Blubberhouses, near Menwith Hill and mess about driving through snow drifts & sliding round the carpark :). There was a good few inches of snow and never had a problem. We passed dozens of abandoned cars and came back into Skipton to find a police road block closing the road! They were amazed we'd been bombing about up there. Nothing like messing about in snow to learn how to drive in the stuff :)
Now I have a 7 seater fwd Toyota, with winter tyres on the front. Last weekend, I was the only non 4wd car to get up to my house in Haworth, I would still love a 4wd though ;)
Not a million miles from where my parents were from, Queensbury.
That area gets a bit more snow than the surrounding as its higher.
Not a million miles from where my parents were from, Queensbury.
That area gets a bit more snow than the surrounding as its higher.
Yup, we always cop for it, but Denholm & Queensbury get it worse.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is no substitute for a 4wd, I was towing people up hills that nothing else could get up without even the slightest wheelspin when we had bad snow the other day:D
A lot of it is the driver and people seem to think going balls out at it will get you through but it just doesnt work.
If you dont want a proper 4x4 my parents have got a subaru forester which is excellent in the snow even on road tyres, subaru legacy is also AWD and I bet you can pick then up for around £1k.
I like my disco though
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419542_10150634387918092_76220 8091_11134345_1098211767_n.jpg
Good choice mate iv got a 3dr the same but green awesome in the snow
Good choice mate iv got a 3dr the same but green awesome in the snow
Seconded (thirded?). I've got one of these:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/FastNA2/mine.jpg
...but a 1994 Golf 1.9 Tdi has done us proud this winter - well under £500 to buy and tyres are £5 a pop (literally) from the local breakers. 60mpg average unless you drive it like you stole it when you'll get around 55mpg and a bit of a tardis when it comes to fitting stuff in it.
plastic-ninja
13-02-2012, 20:41
Until July 2011 I had a Citroen Relay lwb panel van which was unexpectedly brilliant on snow.
It coped with all the heavy snows of 2010/11 without ever getting stuck.
I reckon lots of it is about how you drive rather than what you are in though as I have seen many 4x4s
sliding around on low profile tyres this year!!! Why would you?
Simon
treefrog
15-02-2012, 10:56
My Subaru Outback with Nokian WR G2 winter tyres hasn't let me down yet.
….but then I've several winters worth of driving in Norway too. :)
On a front- or all-wheel drive car, winter tyres will solve nearly all problems. They even help substantially on rear-wheel drive cars. A four-wheel drive car or truck on fast low-profile summer tyres will probably be useless. I have my winter tyres on Oct-March, as they are better than summer tyres in colder temperatures, not just below zero and not just when there is snow and ice. The car also stops a lot faster (10m they say depending on speed).
My "European" friends think we are all nuts in the UK buying expensive 4X4s then driving them around in the winter with low profile summer road tyres and expecting them to grip, when all they do is put winter tyres on their VW Golf.
Over the past 30 years, the biggest improver of winter traction and vehicle handling I've found had been winter tires. These have compounds for the cold and should not be run over 10C or so. A set of spare steel wheels for most vehicles shouldn't be too expensive. Presently, I've got a set of Michelin X-Ices on a 2010 Subaru 3.6L Outback. This is the best combination I've ever driven here in the Northwoods. BTW, the EvoX is parked until Spring. :drive:
demographic
15-02-2012, 19:41
On a front- or all-wheel drive car, winter tyres will solve nearly all problems. They even help substantially on rear-wheel drive cars. A four-wheel drive car or truck on fast low-profile summer tyres will probably be useless. I have my winter tyres on Oct-March, as they are better than summer tyres in colder temperatures, not just below zero and not just when there is snow and ice. The car also stops a lot faster (10m they say depending on speed).
My "European" friends think we are all nuts in the UK buying expensive 4X4s then driving them around in the winter with low profile summer road tyres and expecting them to grip, when all they do is put winter tyres on their VW Golf.
Yup, that one amuses me also. People worry about getting snowed in cos they live two foot six off the motorway then they buy four wheel drives with low profile tyres which are crap on pretty much most things other than dry.
Plusthey are afraid of touching a rock with the wheel cos they have expensive alloys.