Survival fire lighting - Sea Kayaking?

[anthonyyy]

Hi. Something very different to bushcraft fire making.

I am looking for a survival fire starter system for sea kayaking. If you capsize and end up on an isolated island your life could depend on lighting a fire from available items like washed up flotsam and not a birch tree in sight. Something which fits easily in a buoyancy aid pocket. I realise that a firesteel has many advantages but I think I need a firestarter which could light available materials, for example a plastic bottle, when conditions are cold and wet. So I am thinking more of a lighter or matches.
What do you think of these "survival lighters" available on ebay ( Item number: 8703006111).
What tinder is best for carrying in your pocket? I have heard of people using tyre tubing.Can you light this with a firesteel?

your opinions greatly appreciated

[tomtom]

if its for emergancys i would go for a windmill lighter some storm matches and a bunch of cottonwool and vasaline in a water tight tin. :)

[scanker]

My choice would be a firesteel and cotton wool / vaseline. You can get loads of cotton wool / vaseline in a 35mm film canister and it should be just about waterproof but not to any depth or anything.
And / Or
Lighter and strips of tyre/rubber. Both can get wet and still work.

AFAIK a firesteel won't ignite rubber.

[anthonyyy]

if its for emergancys i would go for a windmill lighter some storm matches and a bunch of cottonwool and vasaline in a water tight tin. :)

Those windmill lighters look good: http://www.knifeworks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=771

Not terribly convinced about the cotton wool/vasaline. A waterproof tin is a bit bulky for a buoyancy aid pocket.

[george]

Been there done that!

I carry a vaccuum packed orange survival bag in the rear pocket of my bouyancy aid - once on shore you can cut/tear head hole and arm holes and wear it as an all enveloping cover - keeps the wind and rain out and helps stop you losing heat. Later on you can sleep inside it if neccesary or cut it open to make a tarp.

For an absolutely "must have fire now!" situation I have a windmill lighter inside a small tupperware box the rest of which is packed with cotton wool soaked in vasaline - this should give me several attempts to get a fire going if neccessary. It lives in the top right pocket of my bouyancy aid. Top left is another tupperware box with a bunch of high energy food and some hot drink sachets and a folded up aluminium takeaway food container that will act as a pot and cup to make hot drinks in.

With that in my pockets I've got the minimum to stay alive and well ashore until the coastguard find me!

Of course the problem is how to get ashore in the first place - and how on earth did I lose my boat with all my kit in it!

George

[leon-1]

Hi Anthony, on one of the courses I have done the subject of survival kits came up and of course thier contents were what was really being scrutinised.

There were the standard things in peoples kits matches, potassium permanganate + sugar, firesteels + cotton wool.

The instructor held up one thing and said it was the most underrated pieces of kit that he knew of and in his hand was one of the stubby bic lighters.

People mentioned windproof lighters after, but in the end if the only way you can light it is with a windproof lighter what are the chances of you keeping it alight once it has been lit.

If you do use a windproof (jetflame type) lighter you don't have to spend a fortune on one.

It's more than likely going to be sat in a small Ortlieb document pouch close to your body with other bits that you may want in this type of situation. So waterproof is not a requirement. You can pick up disposable jetflame lighters for less than a quid now and they are reasonably small and compact.

[george]

Leon

Its not about the windproof lighter being wind proof - it's about the ability to keep the flame on without having to hold the lever down. A bic is very difficult to light with cold wet hands in fact you need to use two hands, one to hold the lever down and one to spin the wheel and because of the way you have to hold it to light a fire water can run down your arm and put the flame out. Once the flint is wet in a bic it will not light until you dry it out. If your hands are wet you will get the flint and flint wheel wet. The windmills and similar that can be switched on and locked on are much easier to light a fire with - they do eat gas though so you need to have things ready to go and not try to use the lighter to light the kindling its'self, just the tinder.

George

[anthonyyy]

I tried cotton wool/vaseline to light a plastic milk bottle. Works great. But wet it with just a spoon of water and it is useless.
A small blob of "green slime" works fine even if wet. I need to find a suitable container.

I wonder if something like a lycra swimming cap would work? Ideally I need something which you can wet and still be easy to ignite and burn fiercely for long enough to light the fuel.

[george]

Anthonyyy

Totally saturate the cotton wool with vaseline so that it packs down into a tight oily mass. To light it you tease a few strands of the cotton wool out and light - it will light even after immersion.

Otherwise I have heard some good things about "wetfire" tinder but haven't tried it myself. http://www.survivalinc.com/product_view.cfm?product_line_ ID=157

George

[moduser]

Then it comes down to, as has already been mentioned, a lighter and slices of inner tube.

Ignites and burns even when wet.

When kyaking/canoeing though always keep everything in waterproof pouches/containers.

I know that last statement is a grandma & eggs thing but you'd be amazed at what some folks at my canoe club do (or should that be don't do) on trips and then complain when their butties are all soggy because they forgot that a spray deck is no waterproof :rolleyes:

[scanker]

... a folded up aluminium takeaway food container that will act as a pot and cup to make hot drinks in.

George

Now there's a good idea. Cheers.

[Spacemonkey]

If a firesteel did get wet in salt water, wouldn't it dissolve into a nasty mess?

I have used the inner tube and jet type lighter successfully many times and even tried it wet without probs. Obviously, don't forget to pack a small knife so you can feather wood etc etc.

This is one of those occasions when a decent self made survival kit would be useful.

[Jeff Wagner]

Derrick Hutchinson is my hero. Here is a shot from a kayak outing this past August. I see my girlfriend neglected to retract her rudder.....

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/gallery/data/500/Cnv0490.jpg

[falling rain]

I have a small emergency kit made up of a swedish firesteel, 6 blocks of wetfire tinder which is excellent stuff and will light after a complete and prolonged soaking. 6 Green heat sachets which is a gel and comes in it's own plastic sachets so is waterproofed and some rubber bicycle inner tube for extending the flame once lit. This is all in a green plastic container about the size off a fag packet but twice as thick. You can buy all these items on the Internet but I can't remember where I saw the green container. (I got mine from the army surplus and I think they are decontamination kit holders. I think Ray mears uses one for his field sharpening kit) They are advertised as waterproof but I held mine under water for about 30 minutes and a very small amount of water got in. So I sealed it with electrical tape and problem solved.
All of the above items will not be affected by a soaking and it's a bomb proof kit that I have never had to use but carry with me on trips in case something nasty happens. I have tested it after leaving it under water for half an hour, and everything performed perfectly. The only draw back would be trying to open the kit with cold hands. You'd have to use a knife to cut the tape and trying to strike a fire steel would present some problems but with cold hands any method of trying to light a fire becomes difficult. At least you have tinders you can trust won't be unlightable no-matter how long they've been under water for. A little bulky for a PFD granted, but probably worth it in my opinion.

[anthonyyy]

Can you still buy those little rubber containers containing one refill of petrol for a petrol lighter?

[Schwert]

I carry a metal K&M matchcase in my PFD pocket, along with a signal mirror and a small knife. I always have a Firesteel in my pocket also. The inner tube slices are a great waterproof tinder idea too.

[sargey]

i would really strongly recommend a hardshell waterproof case like one of these on the right in the photo.

http://img1.yoxio.com/img/142164.jpg

i have had vinyl waterproof pouches that gotten tiny holes in them that weren't noticed till it was too late. :o inspect and service your kits regularly. i found out to my cost that sea water really does dissolve firesteels.

the white plastic tupperware looking box with the blue catches can be had for about two quid. unlike bog stadard tupperware it has a rubber seal and is completely waterproof. i've had diver friends take them down 20 odd metres under water no problem. the peli cases can cost as much as fifteen quid at uk prices.

you can use rubber bands from inner tubes to ensure that the catches and lid don't come adrift, and use them for tinder later. you can't light them with sparks, but a completely waterproof tinder you can light with sparks comes out of the tiny tube of glue from a puncture repair outfit. put a dollop of glue on the piece of innertube light the glue with with sparks, it can be relit even after dunking in water. try experimenting with other adhesives, copydex impact adhesives.

i agree with george on the thumbwheel lighters, all it takes is one wet thumb to ruin them. i rather than bics, i use clipper lighters that are reflinteable, you can strip the striker down to dry it out. not really worth trying if you're wet and shivering though. even the piezo ignition lighters can fail if you get water on the terminals.

the tinderquick stuff is very similar to the white barbeque firelighters, but it comes in individual portion packs. you could try army surplus places for the boxes of trioxane heat tabs, easier lighting than hexy blocks, and come in handy individual foil packs. hexy blocks

i'd go with a couple of firelighting options in your waterproof box. the white/translucent one i mentioned fits happily in the side pocket on my swimming shorts, not that bulky at all. should have enough room for a couple of sweets and
a couple of plasters too. i suppose the pfd already has a whistle attached.

hth.

cheers, and.

[happy camper]

hello :)
does the white box have a brand name or can you tell me where to get them? they look ideal, and cheap!

[scanker]

It looks a bit like a "lock and lock" container to me - I think some of the supermarkets are doing their own versions now. It might be more sophisticated than that though?

[anthonyyy]

Those waterproof containers are fantastic. I first noticed them in the shops about a year ago. They are semi transparent and have a blue rubber seal. Several brands are available. They come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes.
They are completly waterproof and way cheaper than Peli cases. The only fault I have found with them was when I used one to store pancake batter. The batter got caught up under the rubber seal and was difficult to clean.

[sargey]

http://img1.yoxio.com/img/142163.jpg

they're the klipit range of boxes, they use to be in safeways before they got taken over, but you can still get them in waitrose of all places. fortunately my wife has a waitrose just across the carpark from where she works. :D

cheers,and.

[happy camper]

cheers for the tip :D
waitrose tomorrow then..

[Spacemonkey]

http://www.strikeforcesupplies.co.uk/stock.php?page=cooking

Top bit is those natty green waterproof containers that we all love, and they are doing them for £2!!