View Full Version : Wood, maple or micarta
I need help with a descision.........
1. Woodlore Alan wood knife OR
2. Wilkinson Sword Maple OR
3. Wilkinson Sword Micarta
I am going to buy one, and i will leave the descision (or at least some of it) up to you! is worth the cost and wait for the alan wood? Is it worth price of the maple, when the micarta will perform just as well?
Just say either 1, 2 or 3.
Thank you very much for your help, all of you.
Jake :?:
I plead ignorance as I only have the micarta model.
This is one for Martyn or one of the other BB guys that have got different types. I would wait for the Allan Wood one as the price is not a lot different than the WS Maple. Get the micarta if you want a serviceable tool and you don't mind putting some time into the blade to get it up to scratch. Again Martyn knows a lot more about this then I do as I have just stuck with my Allan Wood and had no disappointments!
Hi,
The pros and cons of the woodlore knives have been mentioned numerous times in this forum and a quick trawl through will give you lots of opinions on these knifes in their various forms.
I have a Micarta It was fine 'straight out of the box' . Tough and serviceable, and it's the cheapest option. I'd go for that.
John
Cheers mate,
I realise there is already alot of info, but i found it difficult to decipher which is best :oops: , thanks for the advice, i think i will go for the micarta, unless someone can give good reason not to......
Thanks,
Jake Rollnick
just get them all. :wink:
Seriously, it depends what you want. If you want a hard worker, you want it soon and cost is an issue, go for the WS micarta.
If you want a nicer knife and you want it soon, go for WS maple.
If you want a nicer knife and dont mind the wait, go for the AW woodlore.
The answer to your question - it depends!
I'm waiting on a replacement for the maple woodlore from WS (I think everyone who has one at the moment is getting thiers replaced), and am not absolutely happy about recommending it untill I've had a good chance to play with the replacement. The original was flawed, I'm told they've rectified the issues - but will hold off with a recommendation untill I see the results for myself. Should be in the next week or so.
Shortly after, I'll put the review together (which would have been out by now except for the hiccup with the maple WS).
Also, remember these knives have a good resale value. So, you could get one of the WS models now, then order the AW model. When the AW model arrives in a years time, either keep that and sell your WS, or keep the WS and sell the AW. I doubt you'd be much out of pocket either way.
Hi Martyn,
I couldnt bear the wait for the alan wood. But the cost difference between the micarta and the maple astounds me, is it purely aesthetic?
I think the micarta is for me, as £95 isn't exactly going to break the bank!
Thanks,
Jake Rollnick
P.S Where could i sell a micarta WS? and if it was, say, a year old and in good nick, how much for?
In good nick I'm sure you could sell it here for at least 60 - 70% of what you paid for it easy :-D . Unused prolly more.
If they stop making them between now and then then the price would be higher still.
I've seen the original Alan Wood Woodlore go for more second hand than new (it was unused but even so!!! :-D )
You could sell it easily on these forums, on britishblades forums or on ebay UK, if you were happy selling oveerseas, there are dozens more websites you could try - but you wouldn't need to, it wouldn't last that long. ;)
Andrew Middleton
28-01-2004, 15:41
I think Jake makes an interesting point, which I have never seen addressed elsewhere: Does a small piece of maple really cost £70 more than micarta? I struggle to grasp this, but I may be missing something about the rarity value and workmanship required for maple.
Looking at the question from another angle, I have an Alan Wood knife on order and if I can't get on with the neck sheath I was considering ordering a belt sheath. However, at £45 for a bit of leather, I may as well spend another £50 and get the micarta knife plus the sheath.
When you break it down, someone is make some serious profit per item.
Hi,
It's not just the grip on the WS Maple it also comes with a hand stitched belt sheath and there is a degree of hand finishing on the blade I believe. It's much more hand crafted than the micarta knife and as time=money in UK based manufacturing that would explain the differance in cost.
Is it worth the extra £70.00 over the Micarta. If you just want a functional tool then I would say obviously not.
cheers
John
I think that Woodlore have their mathematics messed up. If a hand made woodlore knife comes with a handstiched leather sheath (£45) and you take that off the £195, the woodlore knife costs less than the maple!
So if the cost of the knife reflected the quality, not only would the maple be better, but buying the maple with a hand-stiched leather sheath would save alot of time and would only cost £10 more.
Perhaps they should review the prices :wink: ,
Jake
The sheaths are all the same, regardless of micarta or maple. The difference in cost has nothing to do with the sheath. The difference in price comes from the degree of finishing the knife has. The micarta knife has a churned out factory finish, it's functional, but that's it. The maple knife has hand carved maple handle slabs and is hand finished to a much higher level. The bevels on the primary edge grind are stone ground and hand finished. It doesnt make much functional difference, but there is a lot more man-hours that go into the maple version, as well as perhaps a slightly higher material cost. The maple version is marginally cheaper than the Alan Wood version, but they are finished to the same level (in theory). The sheath that comes with the Wilkinson Sword knives (regardless of version) is the belt sheath, the sheath that comes with the Alan Wood knife is the neck sheath. The cost, quality and finish is the same for both kneck and belt sheaths.
Functionally, all the knives are (or should be) pretty much the same. The micarta knife is cheaper, because they kick it out the door with a lower standard of finish. Five hours work at £15 per hour is £75, it's not difficult to see where the extra cost comes from for the higher level of finish on the maple knives.
You pay your money you take your choice.
Hi Martyn,
I was just confused about the fact that they say that the woodlore knife has a handmade leather sheath, but the maple has a machine stiched one. :-?
Cheers
Jake
Hi Martyn,
I was just confused about the fact that they say that the woodlore knife has a handmade leather sheath, but the maple has a machine stiched one. :-?
Cheers
Jake
Alan wood contracts the sheaths out for the woodlore, and it may well be hand stitched. Wilkinson Sword either do their own or have their own contractors and as far as I can tell, the WS sheaths (both types) are machine stitched (at least they look it to me). But it makes little difference, as the WS sheaths are a carbon copy of the woodlore sheaths. Honestly, the sheath doesnt factor at all.
as the WS sheaths are a carbon copy of the woodlore sheaths. Honestly, the sheath doesnt factor at all.
Apart from not having a firesteel holder. Or was that just the old style.
Hi,
The sheath should factor as it quite clearly states on the product discription on the woodlore website as follows
"Designed by Ray Mears and made by Wilkinson Sword.
This knife is handmade and hand-finished by one of the Wilkinson Sword craftsmen. It comes in a hand-stitched leather belt sheath (neck sheath with fire stick holder available to order separately) and is exactly the same design as the original Woodlore knife but produced in larger quantities. Ray has worked with Wilkinson Sword over many years and they agreed to produce the knife for us.
We are delighted with the superb quality and standard of this knife and hope you will enjoy using it as much as us."
as opposed to the discription for the micarta handled knife which is as follows.
"The Woodlore/Wilkinson Sword Micarta Knife is designed by Ray Mears and made by Wilkinson Sword.
This knife is manufactured in production quantities and has a black Micarta® handle (which looks like ebony and is truly beautiful). It is exactly the same design as the Bird's Eye Maple handle Woodlore/ Wilkinson Sword knife but is more affordable as it is not hand-crafted. It comes in a machine-stitched leather belt sheath. (If you would like a hand-made leather neck sheath with fire stick holder this is available to order separately for £45 - sorry we cannot swap a machine-made sheath for a hand-made one)."
So presumebly if you recieve a machine stitched sheath with a maple WS woodlore you will have some redress with them.
Therefore the sheath should factor into the price as well as the handfinishing on the knife.
Cheers
John
bushwacker bob
28-01-2004, 22:13
the WS micarta would be my choice. Machine stitching can be stronger and often neater than hand stitching.I checked with my brother hes a trained cordwainer(saddler)
Martyn ...
Johnboy's post above reminds me of why I asked you a few days ago if there was any difference in the sheaths for the two knives ... you said there wasn't and I went away thinking I must have imagines the whole thing!!!! (kinda normal for me!).
However, it does look like the sheaths should be different!
Hi,
If I read the Woodlore website correctly I could do the following.
Spend £90.00 on two sheaths from woodlore a hand stitched belt sheath and a hand stitched neck sheath with firestick holder to fit my micarta WS which comes with a machine stitched sheath and cost me £95.00.
The Sheath my Micarta WS came with is undoubtedly machine stitched also the belt loop is finished with just a single run of stitching rather than the triangle of stitching shown on the belt sheath on the woodlore website.
I suppose it's not inconceiveable that during the initial rush to ship the Maple WS knifes from WS to woodlore and onto eager bushcrafters that one left the factory in a machine stitched sheath?? Just supposition but it's not impossible.
Cheers
John
Tony - how long have you had your Alan Wood knife and what nick is it in?
Do you have pics?
Thanks!
Well I cant tell if they're machine stiched or hand stiched. If you want hand stitching, send your machine stiched sheath back to them ask them to unpick it and re-stitch by hand.
OK, so more than a little sarcasm in that sentence, but honestly, who cares if the stitching was done by a machine or by hand so long as the finished product is up to scratch. YOU ARE BUYING A KNIFE! You get a sheath with it, if you want an extra one you can buy one.
I have both the WS belt sheath, and the WS neck sheath. I cannot distinguish whether or not the stitches are hand or machine, I canno tell them apart. They are both excellent.
Tony - how long have you had your Alan Wood knife and what nick is it in?
Do you have pics?
Thanks!
Ummmm about three and a half years, good nick....don't know really, it's sharp and not rusty! Any nicks in the blade have always been sharpened out so the edge is nice. I suppose it's in good nick for a well used tool :-D
WHO CARES?
Well, in the UK, consumer law would. The spec does say that they have a different sheath. People are being sold a knife and a sheath.
Sorry for saying it twice!
What would you recommend? Bison Bushcraft or
WS Micarta?
Thanks guys,
Jake
One thing that might sway it for you is that you'll get the WS micarta one sooner than the Bison ...
Sorry for saying it twice!
What would you recommend? Bison Bushcraft or
WS Micarta?
Thanks guys,
Jake
Don't count on it! Ordered a Micarta 6/1/04, with delivery supposed to be mid/end Jan.
Nil heard so I phoned today.
Woodlore tell me that various delays with WS (staff off, including bloke who does bevels) mean will be another week or two till they get a small batch......
I hate the tension when you are expecting an arrival and it doesnt arrive!
:aargh4:
So Jake,
Have you made your decision yet??
cheers
john
I reckon it will have to be the Micarta WS..............but the bison bushcraft sounds good aswell :banghead: !!!
Probably the Micarta.
Cheers,
Jake
Has anyone ever been *completely* let down by the micarta knife.......Blade broke etc etc???
Cheers
Jake
I dont think there is ebough of em in circulation for that Jake, they are pretty new. But I would be very interested to hear if someone managed to break a 4mm thick blade under normal usage (or even abnormal usage). You'd have to put a phenominal amount of lateral tension on the blade to break it. If you've ever seen any of the ABS Journeyman smith tests, you will know that on even thinish blades, you have to use a long lenth of pipe in order to get enough leverage to break a blade. For short blades 4mm (or 3/16) you really have to give it insane abuse in order for it to fail. Of course, there is the possibility of a catastrophic fault being present in the steel, but given the consitency of the factory produced steel billets(O1) used in the woodlore knives, these kinds of flaws are extremely rare in comparison to hand forged billets.
I would be very surprised if anyone has managed to break one. In fact, I'd like to hear from anyone who has ever managed to break any blade from any manufacturer under normal use conditions?
Tips get broken off from time to time, usually just the 2 or 3 mm at the end of a blade, but that is relatively rare too. You dont very often hear of a blade completely failing, unless someone has deliberately tested it to the point of destruction.
http://www.primosknives.com/gallery/bendtest.jpg
I think Terry Primos tests 1 in 10 of the blades he forges like this, but that is for a hand forged blade and although it is part of the ABS test, I think Terry tests so many to this point to inspire market confidence. Few knives would ever see the above kind of abuse in their normal lifetime.
Cheers for the response, i guess that answers my question!
Jake