Opinions please - the most effective and painless way to kill a meal [Archive]

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Borneo Wildman

03-10-2005, 21:13

Abbe Osram

03-10-2005, 21:44

I have been reading lots of (very informative) posts here and many of them are answering my questions. But I have one question I would like to pose and get opinions on.

"If I were to want to gather a meal - say a rabbit - what is the preferred method of catching and dispatching it"?

I am asking because I have no interest in hurting or alarming any animal, but I want to learn to catch / hunt and prepare my meal the way it should be done. When I ask for the best method, I mean both for it ie not stressing it unduely, and for me, in relation to how much specialist equipment needs to be carried in the field.

Is an air-rifle kinder than a snare? A snare is light and cheap...but a well positioned pellet is surely quicker/kinder?

Everything is relative mate,
If you think how a wolf is attacking a reindeer biting of its legs and starts eating the stomach while the reindeer is still alive. Than killing it with a knife, like some Sami do, even it is forbidden, is still fast and clean. The swedish government thinks that the reindeer has to be butchered by shooting it in the head.

When I go out and shoot phtarmigan then I might hit it with a bullet in a way that its still alive for some minutes, while it dies very fast in my snares. The snaring here is allowed if you have a license and I do. The phtarmigan breaks its neck within a second. In that way snaring is much better than shooting, the snare is hunting too while you work with other things.

If we snare foxes the fox is not hurt at all, with the new traps he doesnt bite himself and the snare cant cut into his flesh. When i arrive at the traps the fox will sit there and I can take my time for a well aimed shot.
While hunting him with dogs I would probably hurt him more. Trapping is not such a bad thing if you know what you are doing. I would shoot squirrles as this buggers are quite agile and struggle for a while. I believe a good shot is better.

If you are really hungry I guess it doesnt matter and the human hunter is still much nicer than the wolf or wolferine. We dont eat the game while it is still alive.
If you think that most animals left in the wild die of starvation (that takes time= suffering) , they die of sickness or accidents (that takes time= suffering), they get killed by wolf, fox, bob cats, wolferine, etc (that takes time= suffering). All in all its a slow death except by a good hunter. I say good hunter.

cheers
Abbe

Carcajou Garou

03-10-2005, 22:16

Abbe Osram is right, if you properly set, your snares (it is a art) are very humane and efficient, I can set my snares out, then set up camp while my snares are working or do other task that need doing. When I have time I actively hunt my food, still fast. A true hunter is more humane then nature as nature takes her time.

Borneo Wildman

03-10-2005, 22:26

Abbe Osram

03-10-2005, 22:36

Thanks for the replies - one obvious question then. Where do I learn to set snares properly so that I am not learning on some poor babbit? And just because this is a theoretical question...is it illegal to set a snare in the UK? (only if you get caught) ;)

We have courses here where I live, if everything goes well I will be an instructor next spring time. You should find a trapper or someone who is snaring a lot, they are the best teachers. I was reading on the net that there are some trappers you can book a holiday and follow them in their work in Alaska etc.

I dont know the laws in UK so watch out and ask, dont do anything which is forbidden. You can learn to build traps and test them with a stick and destreu them when done. I would not snare rabbits so, as they are fighting quite a bit and I have not learned to snare them. Maybe a fellow Bushcrafter who is doing a lot of snaring can help you. What you really dont want is that your snares are not working and someone finds your rabbit with a snare around his feed starved to death. That brings the reputation down and we trappers get a very hard time.
We had to fight very hard here in sweden against the EU to keep our snaring rights for phtarmigan and fox. They where testing the snares and we could prove that they are very fast and safe killing. Still the public believes it is cruel and that comes from kids playing around and not learning the art of trapping.

Hope that you are wise and learn the craft before you go out hunting
yours
Abbe

Bob Hurley

04-10-2005, 00:58

Abbe and Carcajou Garou are right, there's no comparison between the skills of a good trapper and someone trying to learn the skill by trial and error.

To kill a rabbit, grab it by both back legs in your left hand, stand and hold it upside down. It will likely kick hard a time or two before it relaxes, so hang on tight. Then aim a sharp "judo chop" at the back of the neck, line the blow and hand up at a 45 degree angle so you are striking down as much as horizontally. You don't have to strike hard, just quickly, and it breaks the rabbit's neck instantly.

For fox use a light walking stick (NOT a club), and strike the fox a quick firm blow either across the back of the neck or across the nose/snoot. You'll likely have to dance around with the fox a bit to get the angle you want. This will knock the fox out. Then approach the prostrate fox from the belly side and place your foot across its body with your heel over the heart. Step (don't stomp) with your full weight on the fox and hold it for about two minutes. The blow knocks the fox unconsious, and standing stops the heart and lungs. The fox never knows what hit it. You can kill opossums and bobcats the same way but remember that they are both a lot tougher than a fox. Be sure to grab the bobcat's back feet in one hand and hang on just in case you didn't do it right.

I've heard from many sources that the current generation of snares is very good. Leghold traps aren't the evil things you read about, but you have to use the proper size (usually smaller than you'd think), and set it correctly. Large traps that strike the foreleg can break it, but a proper small trap catches by the flexible part of the foot/ankle and rarely even breaks the skin.

Ogri the trog

04-10-2005, 01:32

Boeneo Wildman,
If you are certain that you intend to hunt without the use of a rifle (either air or powder), then you'll still need to gain permission from the landowner to trap/snare or otherwise take your intended quarry. Though, with rabbit, the owner has a legal obligation (in UK) to reduce the numbers on his land!
I have heard of people using the same method of dispatch as Bob Hurley mentioned, but I prefer to grip the animal in a similar way and then pull the neck until you feel it break - I'm then 100% sure that the prey is dead, rather than hack away karate chopping the poor unfortunate thing to its demise.

I always recommend to any one that wants to take up hunting - go out with someone who is already proficient and learn from them. They can guide you through any uncertainties and answer any questions on the spot.

ATB

Ogri the trog

04-10-2005, 01:43

I always recommend to any one that wants to take up hunting - go out with someone who is already proficient and learn from them. They can guide you through any uncertainties and answer any questions on the spot.
I quite agree.... there are just so many points that you cannot hope to possibly learn from a book.....

Ed

lardbloke

04-10-2005, 08:01

Because the laws are different in the UK, I would also strongly suggest going out with someone who is very experienced in game hunting. Ask a local landowner and ask if you can spend a day with the gamekeeper. Then get yourself on a course (survival type/bushcraft skills) where you can learn the skills as they should be taught....

Borneo Wildman

04-10-2005, 10:23

Cheers for all the advice - I must say that it is reassuring that I am hearing people tell me to learn properly and do it right, this is my preferred method.

I am going to buy an air-rifle too and learn to shoot it well - I was quite good as a kid and I think I will enjoy shooting at targets too.

But I am keen to learn as many ways of doing things as possible, so if there are any hunter/trappers out there reasonably near to me that wouln't mind teaching me a thing or two, then please get in contact. I am in Devon on the edge of the moor but can travel.

I have a lot of skills in tracking so could perhaps exchange some info.

Abbe Osram

04-10-2005, 10:59

Stuart

04-10-2005, 11:57

if you can get yourself to S.Wales there are a couple of us here that would be happy to take you out for a day and show you how, talk you though the law etc

Fallowstalker

04-10-2005, 14:16

Humanity and ethics will vary from individual to individual, but two things must be kept in mind; a)The law (which is very strict on trapping in the UK) and b) The resposibility you have to ensure no animal is caused unnecessary suffering.

A well placed shot from a suitable weapon will always cause less stress and suffering than any kind of trap that doesn't cause instant death.

bilko

04-10-2005, 14:41

very interesting read.
One thing stood out in my mind though that is puzzling me.Do different animals use the same paths/tracks as in badger, fox and rabbit altogether?. If so how can one become sure they will have the right size snare for the first animal to wander into it?
Not being arguementative, just curious :) . I may be doing this myself one day.
I suppose that's where tracking skills and local knowledge come into play.

Fallowstalker

04-10-2005, 14:54

Rabbits, foxes, badgers and deer will usually use their own 'runs'. They will however share them if necessary. On a rabbit run you can often tell where the front and back feet alight, and therefore where to position a snare.

You signature interested me. I have a lot of experience of live salmon swimming downstream. :)

Borneo Wildman

04-10-2005, 17:08

Its a good question about the shared runs. While it is true that you can find paths made soley by one species of animal, it is also true that sometimes loads of different animals are using the same path. I find that any wild creature tends to use the most efficient route, and if that is a well established path, they will use it.

I guess that good tracking is involved to make sure you have just the right kind of path to select your quarry. Also rabbits tracks and paths are pretty obvious especially where there is a lot of them in one area. Badgers, fox and roe deer do often use the same paths, but you are not going to be snaring them anyway.

04-10-2005, 17:21

While it is true that you can find paths made soley by one species of animal, it is also true that sometimes loads of different animals are using the same path.
When you find loads of different animals using the same path, normally this means you have found the main game trail (that all the local animals will use)..... usualy individual runs (like rabbit runs) will branch out from the main game trail..... keep your eyes open for the different signs...

:)
Ed

Abbe Osram

04-10-2005, 17:29

What we do too is to build the traps in a way that other animals are hintered to enter the trap or the snares are to week to hold another kind of animal.
When I build my "Ripa" snares the snares are so light that a rabbit or Fox would break it they are placed in a way that a bigger animal would not go through.

Traps for mink and mard are build in a way that only that animal fits into the box and no other. In a mard trap I learned to put a branch of spruce which hinderes birds to get into the box, marden are inquisit enough to press through.
The fox snares could hold a bobcat but I have never heard about one getting into a fox trap.

cheers
Abbe

Fallowstalker

04-10-2005, 18:38

Once communal trails of anykind are found, the next moves I would suggest would be droppings, prints and following the trails to crossing points such as fences, hedges etc. A lot can be learned by what goes under, what goes over and what hair is left behind.

Don't forget your poocraft! :D

spamel

04-10-2005, 19:07

I believe there is a FAQ thread for hunting being compiled as we speak, but I do find the whole subject very interesting.

Another true story coming up....

My dad used to set snares back in the 80's when he was in the Navy, based up Portsdown Hill I think it was, and he used to go out regularly to check his snares. He did this in gaps during his guard shifts, he probably called them watches being in the Navy, and one particular night he was doing the rounds of his snares that were dissapointingly empty.

He continued around his snares checking each one, and was crouched down looking for one he had placed earlier when something drew his attention to the fence line. He froze instantly when he saw a man on the inside of the fence line stalking along with what looked like an Uzi in his hands!!

Dad was too far from the guardroom to call for assistance and didn't have a radio, what could he do? And what with th IRA in the news all the time, it looked like this could be the real thing :eek: Dad kept his cool, waited 'till the guy had moved just past him, then went in with a well executed rugby tackle, and probably a few digs to the ribs for good measure!! Then all hell broke loose as he hollered for his mates to help him out!!

Dad did good, the poor guy was a bit slow, and got turned down for entry to the armed forces. He was living out a dream dressed in combats with a balaclava and replica Uzi, but Dad didn't know it was a fake. He was sped off to the mess for a few rums, and when he got home, he tried telling Mum about what had happened.

Until he got his award for Exemplary Service, she didn't believe a word!!!! So there, snares can be a good thing!!!

elma

06-10-2005, 21:46

When you use your snares be carefull not to use the self locking type as these are now against the law, you must use the free running type, you must also check the snare line regularly as the law also says that you must not cause an animal any undue suffering.
the RSPCA and other troublesome animal rights organisations are pretty hot on trapping and will try to spout all manner of rules that dont exist so dont give them any armunition. basc.org gives good guidlines on snaring.
when you get your air rifle remember the flight of your pellet will be like a rainbow so not only set your zero but check where your pellet impacts befor and after it.

Good hunting :D

Ogri the trog

06-10-2005, 22:22

....when you get your air rifle remember the flight of your pellet will be like a rainbow so not only set your zero but check where your pellet impacts befor and after it.

Good hunting :D

Please also remember that you need written permission to shoot any type of quarry from the owner of the land that you are on - failure to do so results in a crime of "Armed Trespass" and comes under Firearms Law despite being an air rifle.

Shoot safe

Ogri the trog

Fallowstalker

06-10-2005, 22:47

Ogri the trog

06-10-2005, 23:16

Although written permission is always advisable, it is only a legal requirement for the use of section one firearms other than by the owner/occupier. For air weapons and shotguns verbal permission is all that is required by law.

Agreed Fallowstalker,
But police dragging the landowner out of bed at silly O'clock in the morning to confirm your permission is not a good way to generate lasting friendships. Also, if the landowner is away, the armed trespass sticks until he can be traced.

It just strikes me as a more professional approach if you have the written permission with you when shooting.

Ogri the trog

Fallowstalker

06-10-2005, 23:36

It just strikes me as a more professional approach if you have the written permission with you when shooting.

You are right. Trouble is, even written permission doesn't help much. Of the three times I've been stopped by the police in the wee small hours this year (an occupational hazzard if you lamp or night fly fish for seatrout), on two occasions the landowner was disturbed from his bed to confirm my written authority. :(

Beakytzw

06-10-2005, 23:46

Informing the local Bobby in the biggest station in the local area about your hunting trip on Private land with the landowners Permission at around 1400hrs on the day your going to be hunting. Please ensure that they informe the staion local to your area of interest. You can take your written permission into the station, where the local plod can then phone the land owner to confirm you do actually have his/her say so.

The local plod then can inform his/her patrols on the shift change briefing that you are out there with an air rifle, (if necessary a licensed air rifle, do please check if you need one, as a night in the cells is very uncomfortable). this will ensure that the landowner is not woken at 3am, your not disturbed, and the police can go catch real criminals.

Have a great time m8, and I hope you learn lots.

Phil

Fallowstalker

06-10-2005, 23:57

Great advice, but local plod ain't usually that helpful. You phone them to tell them what you're planning and they soon get very bored and tell you to stop bothering them.

Beakytzw

07-10-2005, 00:07

Informing the local Bobby in the biggest station in the local area about your hunting trip on Private land
Hence the BIGEST police station in the area which is usually a larger staion than the local village cop shop. Here in wiltshire, the village staion shuts at about 1700hrs, But the main station in Andover is a fully manned staion for a full 24hrs. even has a webpage for reporting crimes :eek: I used it it works very well in deed. The main staion info'd the local bobby who turned up at my house as soon as she was brief in the morning briefing @ the HQ (very minor crime, not life threatening some git stole my bike between 2000hrs and 0800hrs long story). Which i might add was at 0830hrs. so the morning briefings and afternoon briefings work, local bobby gets told, the patrol cars out and about get told and and hey presto a very peacful evening. Try it, it actually does work.

Borneo Wildman

07-10-2005, 14:24

Thanks again for all tha advice. I have been looking in to what I need (and is sensible to have) in the way of cover. I am joining the BASA £18 per year and gives insurance cover for 3rd parties and I will get a game licence. Iknow its not officialy needed unless I am selling but for £6, piece of mind, and I can sell a bunny if I really wanted to. I will also join a local airgun shooting club.

I'm more of a keen cook than a hardened hunter, so I am not talking about being out there 5 nights a week.

running bare

13-10-2005, 22:10

just a kwik bit of advise. ' dont try and up the power of a air rifle ' as anything the slightest bit over 12 ft/lbs takes it into firearms status. and a heavy fine and/or prison sentence will be served. aim to get your groups inside a 1" circle at 40 yds but practice at closer ranges and working up.

tom

whichever route you want to take happy hunting

Fallowstalker

13-10-2005, 23:04

I will get a game licence. Iknow its not officialy needed unless I am selling but for £6, piece of mind, and I can sell a bunny if I really wanted to.

Please note. A game licence allows you to kill game only (subject to suitable permissions), nothing more. To sell game you require a game DEALERS licence, if you are selling game to anyone other than a registered game dealer.

It is a criminal offence to sell, (unless you are a licenced game dealer yourself) exchange, barter or swap for reward, any game unless you are a restaurant or registered inn keeper, in which case, game must be sold for consumption on the premises, and must be purchased from a registered licenced game dealer.

Rabbits are not game, and as such they do not need a game licence to shoot them, or a game dealers licence to sell them.

You can sell a dead rabbit to whom you like.