View Full Version : Nooby 4x4 advice needed
Hi Guys and Gals,
As ever, I need the benefit of your combined wisdom and expertise!
I am soon to be in the enviable position of spending the working week in London and the weekends (and hopefully longer as time goes on) down near the New Forest in a rural location. The aim is to work out my contract and move down there full time as soon as possible!
I am going to need a car and want to get a 4x4 to keep me going in the snowy weather, a little bit of gentle off-roading, to take on camping trips with the pooch and just because I've always wanted one but couldn't justify it :) I don't anticipate doing many miles but it will get used every weekend at least.
The problem is, I know absolutely nowt about 4x4s so don't know what would be best suited for me. So far, the criteria I have come up with are:
Automatic
Deisel
Around the £5k mark
Able to handle the occasional trip up to London
As reliable as the Sunrise as currently I couldn't tell one end of a spanner from the other (will remedy this)
Don't ask for much do I???? :)
I do realise that most of this has been covered in previous posts but, to tell the truth, I'm getting a bit lost with all the variables :(
Thank, in advance, for the help
Land Rover Discovery Td5 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Cars-Motorcycles-Vehicles-/9800/i.html?_nkw=discovery+automati c&_catref=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m1538)
Hi Guys and Gals,
As ever, I need the benefit of your combined wisdom and expertise!
I am soon to be in the enviable position of spending the working week in London and the weekends (and hopefully longer as time goes on) down near the New Forest in a rural location. The aim is to work out my contract and move down there full time as soon as possible!
I am going to need a car and want to get a 4x4 to keep me going in the snowy weather, a little bit of gentle off-roading, to take on camping trips with the pooch and just because I've always wanted one but couldn't justify it :) I don't anticipate doing many miles but it will get used every weekend at least.
The problem is, I know absolutely nowt about 4x4s so don't know what would be best suited for me. So far, the criteria I have come up with are:
Automatic
Deisel
Around the £5k mark
Able to handle the occasional trip up to London
As reliable as the Sunrise as currently I couldn't tell one end of a spanner from the other (will remedy this)
Don't ask for much do I???? :)
I do realise that most of this has been covered in previous posts but, to tell the truth, I'm getting a bit lost with all the variables :(
Thank, in advance, for the help
Toyota Landcruiser...
Job done....
Land Rover Discovery Td5 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Cars-Motorcycles-Vehicles-/9800/i.html?_nkw=discovery+automati c&_catref=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m1538)
Criteria stated reliability Robin.
What were you saying about Land rovers at the weekend.
Mind you I do like the look of them.
Toyota Lancruiser, hilux, surf. Mitsubishi shogun or pajero. Nissan xtrail, terrano. Any of these as long as they have been looked after.
I run a Landy but can't honestly recommend one for the criteria already outlined by the OP.
HTH, Jon
Mitsubishi Delica. Based on the Pajero but you can sleep in it too! Full low box and automatic diesel. About £2k too, and reliable.
Forgot to say, Delica has diff lock too; -)
Snozz
I'm looking for something similar, but with better off road capability. I currently have a Toyota Rav 4, and I think they may be worth a look. I fitted it with some Grabber AT2s and it's been fine in the snow, towing over muddy ground etc. However, I want to 'get out' even further so I'm looking at vehicles with low box and diff lock options like the Pajero and others mentioned.
The fuel economy averages at around 36 mpg for this diesel version, so not too expensive for trips to town. It also doesn't look at all out of place in an urban environment and happily whizzes along motorways. The 3 door is a breeze to park too.
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/nice65/08012010200.jpg
havocsdad
23-11-2011, 12:53
If you're thinking of going down the landrover route with a defender bear in mind the LEZ that comes into force early Jan 2012 if you're going to go into London
BillyBlade
23-11-2011, 14:20
Depends on budget, but for that sort of 'soft roading' you could do a lot worse than the Hyundai Tuscon or it's larger brother, the Santa Fe.
They are very cost effective, reliable and well equipped, especially so in later versions. They are also easy to insure and easy to drive, with enough off road ability to take you down a forest track without issue.
Thanks for all your help. Certainly given me some things to think on and a few options to consider.
I had considered a Discovery but didn't think they were too reliable (?). I think Japanese may be the way to go, bearing in mind my ineptitude with all things mechanical.
BillyBlade
23-11-2011, 14:27
Thanks for all your help. Certainly given me some things to think on and a few options to consider.
I had considered a Discovery but didn't think they were too reliable (?). I think Japanese may be the way to go, bearing in mind my ineptitude with all things mechanical.
Hence my Hyundai reply...seeing as the Landy specialist I know drives one. He never puts a spanner on it in all the time he has them between trade ins.
Thanks Billy, they certainly do look and sound very good!
Subaru Forester. Drives like a car when you need it to (most of the time), but utterly capable off-road. You can get a good one for £5k. Soft-roaders are neither fish nor fowl, and don't drive well. The Subaru's genuinely capable and rugged, with decent ground-clearance, plus great 4x4 provenance. Try one. It'll make Shoguns, Pajeros, Landcruisers, Discoveries, RAV4s and Sportages feel elephantine and crude.
We've got a Subaru and they are great. Not diesel for that price & bloody thirsty...
BillyBlade
24-11-2011, 10:00
You REALLY dont want to go near a diesel Subaru. Friend of mine works for a main dealer, and there is something about that engine you should know. I'll not put it on an open forum, but happy to spill via PM.
TallMikeM
24-11-2011, 14:00
I've got a sante fe as well, 130k on the clock and been totally reliable in the 3 yrs I've owned it. I do the very occasional 400 mile a day trips in it and it's perfectly comfortable to drive for long trips. Not as economical as a standard car, but I get about 38-40 mpg from it around twisty country lanes.
Ugly as a pig mind, but you can't see that from the inside.
Thanks Billy, yes please mate.... spill away!
Thanks again to everyone giving me some help with this, much appreciated.
Kim
The Lord Poncho
24-11-2011, 15:59
Its a nice thought to have a 4x4 for the snow, but the reality (if you are going to be anywhere remotely built up) is that other normal cars are just left abandoned everywhere meaning that even if you had the top gear arctic truck you wouldn't be going anywhere!
Its fun though for country lanes etc- so should be great for the new forest! Commuting out of London in the snow by car would/will be a big drama...
BillyBlade
24-11-2011, 16:16
Lord Poncho, last year I had the 4x4 driving over pavements and at one point over a garden to bypass the stuck BMW's and Mondeos. Not that there were any deliniating markings to show they were pavements or gardens, but I guess they must have been.
I had a newborn son needing medicine. Hence you do what you have to do.
The Lord Poncho
24-11-2011, 16:21
Lord Poncho, last year I had the 4x4 driving over pavements and at one point over a garden to bypass the stuck BMW's and Mondeos. Not that there were any deliniating markings to show they were pavements or gardens, but I guess they must have been.
I had a newborn son needing medicine. Hence you do what you have to do.
You obviously don't live anywhere near me then!
BillyBlade
24-11-2011, 16:44
Obviously not.
TurboGirl
24-11-2011, 18:23
I'll not put it on an open forum.....
Are these guidelines BCUK or litigation based? I've been commenting on threads ref 4x4 as we trade in them but had no idea we shouldn't alert others to major problems :S so any negatives I feel important are [EDITED] ;)
So if we're only commenting positively, the diesel freelanders might fit your bill- we've traded some lovely Rav4s as previously recommended (the autos can be rarer tho) and in the larger 4x4 markets, Shoguns and Troopers are good although getting replacement injectors can be [EDITED] on the latter. TD5 gearboxes can be [EDITED] and as far as Range Rovers go- petrol or diesel- well thats [EDITED] too!
Someone mentioned Nissan Xtrails- VERY popular lifestyle vehicles round here with their huuuuuge rubberized boot space although they're mostly higher models with the auto. Fuel delivery on the petrols can be... guess what.... [EDIT] ;)
BillyBlade
25-11-2011, 00:32
Turbogirl, no doubt what you've put above is in jest, but I was a moderator on a forum for a very long time, and it's easy to get a website into trouble if you start naming and shaming. Very easy in fact. So, what I choose to put, or not, is my business. Thanks for the understanding, and continued good luck in your business.
What I will say to the above though, is tell me you're not recommending the X trail diesel!? That engine has a naughty habit of eating itself. As for the freelander, well there is a reason so many of them are advertised as having the 'economy mod' done. In reality it's because the transfer box is made out of Edam, so they get cheapy configured for two wheel drive only.
As you may have guessed, I also have familial links to the garage trade.
TurboGirl
25-11-2011, 15:04
Phewwww its a bloody minefield isn't it.... we've not encountered the xtrail problem (yet!) so I wasn't aware of it- obviously know about the navara 3rd conrod situation (2003-06) tho, I'll look out for the xtrails having a similar fault although they're a different block, aren't they? I believe the 2.0l earlier model use renault and the 2.2 being a nissan powerplant as opposed to the 2.5 navara D22 engine?
As far as the 2WD version and economy-modding freelanders to 2WD, apart from the clearance, it makes you wonder what the point is in buying a 4WD.... we've accidentally bought a modded one in the past and it was as practical as a rubber knife! So the lesson is to look underneath before buying anything, folks, cos they're not all as the manufacturers intended them to be....
I appreciate your words of caution, Billy, I'm a noob to the forum and am used to much more.... uhhhhh.... 'contentious' groups so although yes, I was trying to be 'tongue in cheek', your advice is definately a big help. Still makes me mad that you can't be open and help goodly folk avoid expensive pitfalls :S
BillyBlade
25-11-2011, 20:16
Aye, it's not the rods that are the problem on the X-Trails Turbogirl, it's the intercooler, turbo and fuel pump in that order.
Intercoolers split all the time on them, I've seen with my own eyes as low as 22k miles, although others report even worse, in the teens. Also, they like to let go on the turbo oil seals which can lead to engine runaway at worst, and new turbo at best. Last but not least the diesel pumps on them are not without failure issues either, although personally I think this is a lot to do with misfuelling and then they fail. Tolerances in them are measured down to 2 microns, and they really don't last long without the lubricity of diesel fuel. Lifespan can be measured in seconds if its a heavy enough misfuel.
Also, I've heard - but not seen, so take on it as you will - of brake failures on them, with the system going single circuit without warning.
Regards the Freelanders and the 2.5 engine, yes belts are expensive to change but they are so over-specc'd on that engine they can literally do twice the design life that Rover stated, and indeed Powertrain cleared them to 120,000, it was Rover who wnet ultra conservative on that engine. Inlet manifolds do fail on the vis motors, but thats an easy fix for a true garage, and not just a parts replacer, if you see what I mean.
Biggest Freelander common issue is that bloody transfer box. It's fragile, and it breaks. Often. Hence, as you found, the cop out is to do the economy mod on them. At least Landy owned up to the front diff being chocolate in the LR322, and issued a recall which they still honour. Sadly that never happened with the Freelander.
As for 1.8 petrol head gaskets, well, I can do one now, and do it right, in an easy gong days work, I've done that many of them for friends over the years. They are pretty much a service item if you dont use the MLS gasket, but fit and forget if you do.
With the litigation issue, well, honestly, be careful. Anything you say on a forum, be rock solid on it, as companies can take issue. I was a mod on a car site, and we had one guy come on and state about problems he had with a certain outfit. You would not believe how quickly that went legal, and how quickly he found himself in the ****. Sadly, we had to cover ourselves as well, which cost us money we could, as a group, ill afford to part with from group funds.
santaman2000
25-11-2011, 20:22
...With the litigation issue, well, honestly, be careful. Anything you say on a forum, be rock solid on it, as companies can take issue...
Even being rock solid there's still a danger. You might win a issue in court but do you really want to go to the expense and bother of a lengthy trial.
TurboGirl
26-11-2011, 21:26
I'm really saddened by the fact that threat of litigation should stop genuine advice being given to folk, because of the need to protect the platform it is given over.
I'm sad also that theres little I can offer back to people that have made me so welcome as a bungling noob-in-the-woods, apart from our experience and knowledge of the 4x4 trade... I don't advertise or promote it because of forum rules but at least we could have helped others avoid pitfalls.
One day I'll meet you round a campfire and we can slag 'em off to our hearts content :) (manufacturers, not the forum!!!)
I agree TurboGirl, it is sad that people must protect themselves and the forum - I'm just grateful for the advice I've been given. That's why we all come here; to share and ask for knowledge, it's just a shame that in these times we gotta be careful not to get ourselves taken to court in the process!
For what it's worth, I think it's looking like a Hyandai Santa Fe I'll be heading towrards; does anyone know of any known issues I should be aware of? Oh, and please feel free to inbox me :)
Thanks to all of you.
Kim
BillyBlade
27-11-2011, 14:50
I've never heard of any trending issues with then Kim. If you can get a later one with cruise control etc, it's a very capable long distance car as well. I know of someone who reguarly takes his family to the alps in one.
Watch the flywheel and the clutch, a colleagues one has just been in for 3 yes, THREE grands worth of work when the clutch disintegrated, taking the flywheel and the bellhousings with it. (It was covered by the warranty, but wouldn't have been if it had gone a fortnight later...)
Watch the flywheel and the clutch, a colleagues one has just been in for 3 yes, THREE grands worth of work when the clutch disintegrated, taking the flywheel and the bellhousings with it. (It was covered by the warranty, but wouldn't have been if it had gone a fortnight later...)
This is a diesel Rav4 problem too. Mine went at 80,000 miles and Toyota admit liability and will replace the parts at anything below 50,000. Cost me £1300.
BillyBlade
28-11-2011, 10:26
Diesel. Dual mass flywheels. Work of the bloody devil.
A sincere thank to everyone who helped; I've bought a lovely 04 plate Santa Fe with 70k on the clock. Had it checked out by an ex audi mechanic who said it was in remarkably good nick.
Initial impressions are that it's just what I wanted! Time will be the real test I guess.
Thanks again.
BillyBlade
04-12-2011, 11:21
Very best of luck with it Kim, happy motoring :D
Thanks BB, I appreciate all your help mate.