Defender 90?

[Sideburnt]

Okay so I've been a traditional enthusiast of using my legs for years, now I'm 33 and I think its time I tried out this wheel m'larky. So I'm going to freaking do it and get myself driving.

I've got a very low tolerance for all the usual toss that's out there in the way of vehicles, I want something practical, can take a knock and feels like some fun. Otherwise I'm not interested.

Which has lead me into the territory of a Defender 90, I've noticed that the ex MOD sales can go for around £2500 which is slam bam in the right budget range.

Sadly I don't know anyone that owns one of these, or a 110 or anything similar. Is there much advise in buying such an old vehicle? MOD are a good place to start?

Any advise is really welcome, I'm a good 6-9 months of a purchase, but need to drum some enthusiasm up for me to get cracking on with the lessons.

[udamiano]

Hi Sideburns,

TurboGirl on the Forums is a 4x4 dealer, she may be able to give you some advice

[widu13]

Do a search on here for Land Rovers.

The common theme is that Jap forbees are more reliable.

A LR is a truck- literally.

Ex MOD isn't what it used to be. There are now direct sales out there I wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

[widu13]

err, thanks for that useful titbit :confused:

[Sideburnt]

well landyzone seems a good site, although the threads seems to decend into ****-takery quite quickly.

I've seen a bit of interest on 4x4 on this site, I'm pleased that there are some opinions here also.

the warning about MOD direct sales is valuable, so thanks. If I start to get a bit closer to a decision I might look up TurboGirl.

Edit:
I've already done a fair bit of searching and reading, which is how I've whittled down my list to a Defender 90 or a Toyota Hulix 80's model. Both tick the same boxes but I tend to think the Defender 90 might be a more fun ride.

Its the personal experience that I'm lacking, and I know bushcrafters like practicalness, and this is the angle I'm going for here. Thansk for the replies I've already recieved.

[EdS]

Having owned a number of 90s and Discoverys.

90s are thirsty (compaired to a car), slow, noisey, unreliable, uncomfortable for many, rot prone, full of Lucas electrics and impractical for more 2 people. They are however, fun.

EX MOD is likely to be a 2.5 natural aspirated -- slow and underpowered.

[Sideburnt]

Having owned a number of 90s and Discoverys.

90s are thirsty (compaired to a car), slow, noisey, unreliable, uncomfortable for many, rot prone, full of Lucas electrics and impractical for more 2 people. They are however, fun.

EX MOD is likely to be a 2.5 natural aspirated -- slow and underpowered.
oh dear that sounded like a kick to the plans, but I need a dose of realism I think before I gwet too sucked into a single idea. I'm reading a lot of mixed opinions on reliability, some people claim to pour money into them to keep them running, other say they've had 10 years out of them with only a service every 6k.

I really don't have any background with car maintainance so this might be a deal breaker, as I'm keen to give most maintainance 'a go' before turning it over to mechanics. But I don't want to lose my weekends to it.

Edit: Also slow, and uncomfortable isn't really an issue, I'll be happy sitting on 55-60mph, I've never been in a rush to get anywhere, leave that for the Adrenalin junkies. But like I said above, unreliable is a problem

[garethw]

Hi there
I've had several 4x4's but not a Land Rover 90.. Several of my mates have had them though...
If you can get a good conditioned ex MOD model it may well be winterised ie: Webasto heater and weatherproofed chassis etc.
They will usually have been hammered, and received numerous coats of hammeraite hand painted on the bodywork by some non too fussy squaddie.
The interior will be even more basic than the civvy model and again probably seen better days. I don't know about more recent models but before the TD5
most of the MOD models were 2.5 atmo engines...ie:Slowwww and underpowered.

Your other choice a Hilux is a really good vehicle.. just look at what Jeremy Clarkson andh is cronies did to one. They are mega reliable, and unbustable trucks... well almost. Rust is the main enemy, especially in the wheel arches, and the truckbed. Also the driving position is really wierd... your leg are stuck right out in front of you...

Both ae very truck like, but although I love the look of the Landy, I'd go for a Hilux every time...
cheers
Gareth

[The Lord Poncho]

It depends how many miles you will be planning to do- if reletively few, then the 90 will put a smile on your face. If quite a lot of miles, then the dent in your wallet will affect that smile!

I have an old tax exempt land rover. Whilst thirsty, i make the money back on it in spades:
- fully comp insurance, with full breakdown cover and home start, and no no claims- £90 per year
-tax exempt
-parts are extremely cheap, and it is easy to fit them yourself (e.g. complete new front to back exhaust, under £30 (well it was a few years back!))

on top of this:

-can out perform most 4x4s off road
- in the summer i can fold the windscreen down, take the doors off, and remove the canvas in about 20 minutes ready for the sun
-I smile most of the time i am driving it.

However, if it was my only car, i may have problems if i wanted to go long distances with it.

[charlieh]

I run a defender, i do it because i need it for work, because im jumping in and out in wet kit, thowing forestry kit in the back, oil cans grease cartridges and i can hose it all out every 12months. My defender replaced a Suzuki Grand Vitara short wheel base which was in every sense a better vehicle, (including off road!) the ex-mod defenders at the sort of prices your looking at will be an absolute heap, and need a lot of straightening out. the interiors are generally very basic, to the extent that quite often the wiring looms arent even hidden away. On the plus side for defenders I bought mine second hand and have put about 50K miles on it over 3years and its depreciated by about £800, parts are cheap and most local areas have a small garage that specialises in landies, however do do some back ground on dealers and garages first as some are not as trustworthy as others!

[EdS]

the old works 300TDi I had was teh most reliable vehicle I've had --- however, it was serviced every 6000 inc high quality oil change. Regular oil change are a must on Defenders. It also belts checked and t-box, gear, diff and swivel oil at least every 20 000 miles. That is a lot of oil, over £100 worth at time.

[demographic]

Every once in a while I get the idea that I quite like Landrovers, then I get in the one owned by a mate and its cured for another couple of years...

I liked the old basic ones, the modern ones aren't anything like as basic in the engine department and I just don't trust them.

[fredster]

I drove around europe for a month in a Defender 90, and my friends have a couple of them that they use as daily drivers and for off roading. I'm not a big fan of them. What some people call 'character' I call flaws. Noisy, drafty, crap electrics, unreliable and dated engines.

Given the choice of a Landy and a Hilux I wouldn't hesitate to go for the latter (the metal 80's/90's ones, not the new plastic encased nightmares). A hilux is as dependable as a vehicle comes, very capable off road (although in truth the landy pips it there) and most importantly drives like a car when on roads. There is a reason why Toyota are the world's biggest manufacturer of cars.

[SussexRob]

I love the defenders, but have never had the pleasure of owning one. A number of friends do, and they all say that they are great but expensive to run. A great number of them recommend a Discovery for longer miles, as they are as fun to drive off road, and cheaper to run, so they may be worth a look at for you.

[MartiniDave]

My daily drive is a Defender 90. It's my 8th land rover, there will certainly be a 9th.

Mine is a '94, 200tdi hard top, which I've fitted window to. I paid £3000 for it, in the first 6 months I spent about another £1000 putting it how I wanted, and sorting out the sort of rust problems you get on a car that's old enough to vote.

As I said it's my everyday car, used for my 12 mile each way commute, getting out and about, dog walking and the bit of gamekeeping I do. Most weeks I get a few pallets from work to feed my wood burner, they go in or on it no worries. Last week I used it to pull up a hedge around my garden, it saved me a lot of spade work. It has so far been totally reliable, gives me 30 mpg give or take. I do the maintenance myself where possible, at the specified intervals.

Any Land Rover needs its maintenance, but so do ALL 4x4's. I know a lot of people who own landy's of various sorts. An alarming number of them adopt the "that'll be OK, they're meant to be tough" approach to mmaintenance and servicing, then they moan when it stops working.

If you decide to go for a Defender, or any othe 4x4 for that matter, if possible, take somebody with you who really knows their stuff and get them to have a good look over it. Don't rush to buy the first one you see. If the seller won't let you "test" the chassis with a small hammer, walk away.

Be aware though, landy's can be very addictive, much more so than knives, and can start to take over your life! You have been warned!

Dave

[mrcharly]

Owning a defender isn't a bad idea if you don't mind doing maintenance yourself. It's lunacy if you are going to be paying someone else to do it.

You won't be cruising at 55-60 in a naturally aspirated 2.5 - it will struggle to cruise at 50.

[Welshwizard]

I drove around europe for a month in a Defender 90, and my friends have a couple of them that they use as daily drivers and for off roading. I'm not a big fan of them. What some people call 'character' I call flaws. Noisy, drafty, crap electrics, unreliable and dated engines.

Given the choice of a Landy and a Hilux I wouldn't hesitate to go for the latter (the metal 80's/90's ones, not the new plastic encased nightmares). A hilux is as dependable as a vehicle comes, very capable off road (although in truth the landy pips it there) and most importantly drives like a car when on roads. There is a reason why Toyota are the world's biggest manufacturer of cars.
I agree I,ve had Land Rovers ,russian Lada 4x4 and Japenese Toyota and Mitsuibushi Shogun and found the Land Rovers bottom of the list ,Japenese are more comfortable ,faster,more reliable and better on fuel I,ve also found them better tow vehicles and much better all round .

[Zingmo]

I've already done a fair bit of searching and reading, which is how I've whittled down my list to a Defender 90 or a Toyota Hulix 80's model. Both tick the same boxes but I tend to think the Defender 90 might be a more fun ride.

If you are looking at old hiluxs then can i suggest you look at the Ford Ranger (which is the same as a Mazda B) from the same period. The Jeremy Clarkson effect has artificially inflated the price of a Hilux whereas most folk don't consider the Ranger so they are a lot cheaper. It is very similar to the Hilux in all the important ways. I have a double-cab which is perfect for taking the family on adventures but still has a five foot long load space at the back.

Z

[kpeter20]

I have owned a imported Hilux Surf and was registered on an M plate. It was a 3.0 TD and was brilliant. I cant recommend them enough to anyone who is looking for an offroad vehicle.

Even back then, they come with electrical adjusted suspension that you could firm up at the touch of a button. I think most supercars come with this now and toyota were selling it in the mid 90's.

Huge twin battery set up come with a winter pack. Loads of toys on them aswel.

You wont go wrong with a Hilux Surf. Only thing I would suggest is go for the 3.0 TD, ignore the petrol version and dont go for the 2.4 TD as they had head problems and are prone to fail.

[Itzal]

What about a discovery?

[BillyBlade]

I'm a time served mechanic, I did so at a general repair garage. However, where I worked, we had a lot of landies come through the doors as it is a country area.

I'm not going to slate them, but all I'll say is this, if you buy one, be good with a spanner and be willing to give up one weekend in four for at least a pair of hours looking over it.

As for the stuff the MOD disposes of now, well, I spent 12 years in the military and the way land rovers were driven/treated during my time was appauling. No mechanical sympathy whatsoever, because if it breaks, well, who cares. It's not your pocket that takes the hit fixing it. One example - home made cruise control i.e. leaving it in a lower gear and using a cut off broomshaft to keep the accelerator to the floor and bouncing it off the limiter to keep it at sensible speeds. Mental, aye, but young lads that are beasted tired and have to be somewhere late at night, well, who cares? Just steer the thing.

I've also seen them overloaded to the point of damn near cracking the suspension mountng points. Thrown down terrain they were never designed for just for sh*ts and giggles. If it gets stuck, get a tracked to recover it. Never mind the bust suspension etc doing it. All good fun. If it's NOT your truck.

So, go into it with your eyes open. In life, 'cheap' tends to be 'cheap' for a reason.

Good luck.

[garethw]

Hi there
I went down this road, as I said in the post above, and like the look of the Landy.. but by experience (of others) I went for a Jap 4x4 and got a Nissan Terrano 2.
Well having driven a number of off roaders (Patrols, Land Cruisers etc) But I've been well pleased with the general off road performance and motor of this car... Mine had a few niggles when I got it, mostly electric, central locking, electric windows etc... Well its built in Spain so bound to have electrical hassle!!!
But mechanics and offroad caperbility are very good. The LWB vehicle is pretty well priced too and the 2.7TDi Nissan engine is far better than anything Land Rover have ever used.
Also its on road drive is pretty car like...
cheers
Gareth

[coln18]

Got an ex mod defender 110 and love it, had nothing go wrong with it for the first 2 and half years then the ECU went, so in over 3 years its only been in the garage once, which is much on a par with any other car ive owned. I love the fact that when i walk into a busy car park, my 110 can be spotted within seconds, its just so different to other cars, also love driving it and have been up and down the length of the country a few times and found it fine.

Just my opinion but i would say do your homework and be patient and you can get a good car that will last for years.

[MartiniDave]

Well, I just spent sunday morning placing pheasant feeders in the woods on our little shoot using my 90. Strangely enough a few of the other guns have "better & more reliable" jap 4x4s, but not one of them was prepared to risk taking them into the brush and brambles in the woodland (2 years growth - I'm not looking forward to beating in there. One of them who rode as passenger in a Series landy, actually said to me that "I must get a Landrover" as he unlocked his 4x4 to drive home afterwoods. Of course I did have to spend time putting my 90 right afterwards. In fact it took me nearly 10 minutes to pick all the leaves out of the footwells and bits of branch off the roofrack. I'll stick with me landy thanks.

[Nonsuch]

If you buy a Jap 4X4, you will always wish you had bought a Landie. If you buy a duff Landie, you will be wishing you had bought a Jap 4x4!
Unfortunately, a good, reliable, rust-free 90 is not going to come cheap, and buying a cheap one will end up expensive unless you are an enthusiastic mechanic.

[streetcleaner]

Hi..

I have a ex military defender 90, its a J reg and it had 60000 on the clock, I bought it last april.

In my experience of buying mil vehicles I would not buy from witham's in lincs they have the contract to dispose of all mil vehicles but the cream are sold to dealers!!
Mine was in mint condition and was fully MOT'ed. It was bought by the dealer from witham's two week prior to me buying it.
As the dealer sold it on the road, he had it mot'ed, registered and taxed.
Also I could look over the vehicle and test drive it.
I paid £3000 and I recon I could have got one for £2500 from withams but I would have had the extra expence of MOT, Tax etc etc

The mil vehicles are far better than the civvy type, because they increase in value and the insurance is £70 fully comp on a classic unlimited miles policy.
If you need any details, just pm me.
many thanks and I hope this was of use

[Sideburnt]

Thanks for all the advice and offers of additional support, I've re-enforced my expectations a lot based on the advice posted here.

Very much obliged to you all.

[bdshim]

i own a mk3 hilux love it ive jumped in it lotts of time and done 4-5 hours soild driving, so dependable, go over to hpoc.com there grest bunch on there, they have great hilux knolage to,