View Full Version : Too much Kit
Morning all
When I got back from tracking last weekend I threw my rucksack on the floor and asked myself, why do I take so much kit for 1 weekend?
I thought I am not going to make the same mistake again this weekend at the WG. So I started repacking and it still seems a load of kit. I am going to take the following:
2 x Changes of clothes
1 x Wash bag
1 x knife (I mean it! just one)
1 x tarp
1 x sleeping bag
1 x Bivvy bag
1 x Roll mat
1 x Water bottle
1 x Hexy or Triagia stove (can't decide)
1 x mug
1 x mess tins
1 x Knife/fork/spoon
2 x ration packs
1 x notebook/pen
1 x waterproof jacket
1 x head torch
1 x first aid kit
It still seems like a lot of kit for one weekend and I am sure somebody will tell me I have forgotten something essential.
Can anyone suggest a way of reducing the amount of kit we all carry?
Nick
Perhaps a light weight hammock instead of the kip mat and bivi ?
Less clothes.
Lexan or titanium Spork instead of KFS.
Ration pack is ?4000 kcals each - I doubt you need that much for ordinary autumn bushcraft activity.
Otherwise it seems to be the essentials, but there may still be scope for improvement: eg my heaviest waterproof is 1.5kg and my lightest 400g!
C_Claycomb
31-08-2005, 12:32
That isn't so bad. That is about what I take and is about as pared down as I have managed. Hammocks still need insulation, you can use a thinner mat and be comfortable since it isn't acting as padding, but you don't save a lot otherwise.
What do your changes of clothes consist of? Chances are you won't need spare trousers. I always used to take a spare set, but after doing two week-long trips this summer where they just stayed in the pack, I reckon I can do without for one weekend.
The problem with packing for a weekend is that the amount of stuff isn't really all that much less than you would take for a week, kit quantity isn't proportional to trip duration at this end of the scale. There are some good thoughts on reducing kit on SgtRock's web site http://hikinghq.net/. You are pretty much down to just getting lighter more compact gear. Some people get things like MSR Titan kettles and use as mug, cooking pot and eating dish. They organise food so that they need no fork or table knife. Washbag is reduced to something of about 1.5x6x4 inches, or less by transfering just enough stuff for using on the trip, cutting handles off things and so forth.
How much does all your kit weigh and what pack do you need to fit it in?
BlueTrain
31-08-2005, 12:33
Take more food and less clothing and be sure to cut off the handle of your toothbrush.
Seriously, that is less than I seem to take, though I don't take even one change of clothes. I do take clothes to sleep in, believe it or not.
Although I spend a lot of time planning trips and messing around with all the gear I've accumulated and even acquiring more, once I set foot on the trail, I only think of three things: where I'm going, what I'm going to eat, and my feet.
All the camping I did in my youth was what you would call car camping (never heard it called pickup truck camping, which it really was). Only much later did I begin doing backpack-type camping. That wasn't something I picked up from the army, either! However, in between, I actually spent a lot of time in the woods because I lived much closer to places that I could get to quickly. But I was never out overnight or only rarely. But what I miss is the spontaneous, get-up-and-go circumstances of my woodland visitations. It was always a come-as-you-are thing. But then, I was never so far away that I could have crawled to the closest habitation. Things are different now.
These days I have less time but the places I go have designated wilderness areas (which is a joke). You have to camp in deep woods. I don't like camping under trees. But anyway. Take everything you want to have fun with and don't complain about the weight. Nessmuk, in his book Woodcraft, told of scolding a fellow camper who had taken along a lot of canned goods. However, he said he later forgave him and allowed him to share his groceries.
Life is hard enough. Take all the chocolate you can carry!
First check the 5 day weather forecast for where your going as that gives night temperatures as well as day.
If it's dry and warm (10+ degrees) do you need the bivi bag? Just lower your tarp to offer better protection from any breezes.
Spare clothes take shorts instead of spare trousers, lighter weight clothes for the weather expected (you'll always have your waterproofs just in case.
Ration packs are really heavy (very convienient though), how about more dried food? You know there is plenty of potable water where your going.
All this advice from someone who's pack is always over full and heavy :(
You know the old adage "do what I say, not what I do" :D
I'm happy to 'fess up here for the amusement of others ;)
On my first solo 'bushcrafty' trip I took just about everything bar the kitchen sink (ie second mess tin)…and paid the price.
I disappeared of into the New Forest taking untold amounts of kit, at least two sets of spare clothes, survival tin (why ? I was never more than a couple of ks from a road!), metal mess tins(x2) '58 pat mug, '58 pat water bottles (with plastic cups) x2 and a camelback with enough water to keep a dromedary hydrated for a month, head torch, right angle torch, spare D and AA batteries. Also an army sleeping bag weighing 3.5 kg, bivy bag, basha, kip mat and enough paracord to stretch to the moon and back and enough hexi tablets to have powered a blast fernace. I looked like something from a Nepalese expedition….oh and not forgetting my 35mm camera six films, metal tripod and 80mm spotter scope !
My DPM Bergen wasn't enough so I used a chest rig too.
Now I am quite fit but I wasn't prepared for what amounted to a fairly length weekend tab. When the blisters kicked in, burst, rubbed raw, and then just darn well bled freely and it rained hard for the second day in a row and I had a 22.5km tab back to the nearest railway station, and I ruptured both achilles tendons.....get the picture ...too much kit ! I promised never never never never never again would I carry so much as an unnecessary pencil!
To add insult to injury some 'tweed suited' local phoned the local Plod to report a heavily 'armed' individual ( :eek: ) marching across heath land towards Brockenhurst. As I was trudging through the driving rain I was flagged down by an unmarked Police Car. Standing there drenched in rain and sweat and in a great deal of pain and discomfort, I conceded to two highly amused Police officers sat in a warm dry unmarked police car that I could understand how a folded tripod and spotterscope could be mistaken for a L86A1, but that I could assure them that it wasn't. :rolleyes:
I've never worn anything DPM again and have subsequently 'retired' by DPM bergen !
Moduser's advice is very sound - check the weather and pack your kit accordingly.
As for clothing I have found that beyond a couple of extra pair of socks (life is great when you change into fresh toasty socks) and a couple of t-shirts you really need very little other than what you are wearing. Even if your clothing is wet, drying them beneath your tarp overnight or walking cross country will dry out lightweight trousers t shirts etc.
For a typical weekend, Friday night to Sunday night, I'd take the following depending of course on weather and time of year:
Bergan 125litre OG (Yoke and Side Pockets/20litre day pack)
Sleep System
Merlin Sleeping bag + silk liner less than 1 kg
Jungle Hammock (Nomad) 0.5kg
Basha OG 0.6 kg
Sleep System (Winter or foul weather)
Either Bivy Bag with Basher and Hammock
or
Pro Action 'Tiger Paw' 1 person tent 1.9 kg and kip mat
Clothing Worn
2x Boxers (1 spare if necessary)
2x Socks (1 spare)
2x T-shirt (1 spare if necessary)
1 Helly Hansen crew top
Black Windproof Smock w.hood
Trousers US BDUs OG
Boots ancient pair of Polish boots
Clothing Spare (only if needed/depending on forecast)
Lightweight Waterproof Jacket & Trousers
Cooking and Water
Hexi stove and heximine fuel tablets
Or
MSR Pocket Rocket and gas
Snowpeak Titanium Mug/pot
A titanium spork
2 Litre Camelback
Pre Mac Pocket Well Water filter
Food rations
1x bowl of Oats and sultanas for breakfast
1x packet of noodles for lunch
1x Wayfarer Meals for each main evening meal
nibbles/ nuts/skittles/dried fruit
Herbal tea bags/reg tea bags
Sugar sachets
1/3 pint of milk in a plastic bottle
Tools and Stuff
Puukko knife
Crook Knife
Petzl Head Torch
Paracord 10m
Small pocket notepad and half a pencil (Ikea pencils good! :) )
Washkit
Flannel
Airline/travel toothbrush
Small hand towel or Yesterday's t shirt
Toilet roll (!)
First aid kit
I'm terrible at packing, either i've got way too much or (infrequently!) too little. i think i read someone (possibly the book of the bivi) that the way to reduce kit weight is as follows.
Get home, unpack. Divide kit into three piles, the stuff you used every day, the stuff ou used on the odd occasion, the stuff you didn't use.
now making exceptions like first aid kits, chuck all the stuff in piles 2 and 3.
drastic, and i fully confess i've yet to try this method!!!
all the best
sc
BlueTrain
31-08-2005, 17:13
Isn't it odd that camouflage made you more visible? Or at least more noticeable.
Come to think of it, I've never seen anyone wearing camouflage (DPM, duck-hunter, tiger stripe, or anything) when I've been on a jaunt through the woods and I don't wear it so much either in the woods. I otherwise wear DPM a lot and I don't seem to attract any attention. I have seen army packs in use (ALICE) and belt kit (web belt and canteen (water bottle), too. But other than myself, who is always different, most backpackers seem to be outfitted from the same store (which is very likely to be Hudson Trail Outfitters, Fairfax Circle, Fairfax, Virginia). Not that I am complaining. It makes no difference to me but they are a conforming lot.
But how did they see you in the first place?
Carrying that much kit when you go out in the bush isn't such a bad thing. The way I look at, you can take as much kit as you want, because you're the one humping it. It's your back that's carrying it, not mine!
stevec's comment about dividing up your kit reassessing its usefulness after a period camping is spot on. Dividing up your kit based on how much you used an item should enable you to weed out surplus items. For me the fascinating aspect of bushcraft is learning how to use the natural resources in the environment you're in enabling you to dispense with even more surplus kit.
No two people are going to have identical kit lists - what you should take should suit your own requirements, the key thing is to really think what you need based on where you are going and at what time of year. I don't need axes or saws in the New Forest as I would not light a fire there and instead use a hexi stove or my MSR pocket rocket.
A mate of mine insists on taking his GPS, Ipod, a novel or two, heart rate monitor …I could go on but you get the point…..not my cup of tea - I'd prefer to take some hot chocolate powder or a pair of small binoculars for wildlife watching.
BlueTrain - Good point - why did I stand out using a DPM Bergen and chest rig ? Perhaps I should put the scenario in context - the New Forest in Hampshire is 45,000 acres of 900-year-old open forest and heath. It's quite a sleepy area littered with posh little villages and and small towns. The area was granted National park Status earlier this year. It’s a beautiful area - but not truly remote. You are rarely a three or four of kilometers from a road village or town - it's not wilderness, like you have in the US. But it's quite possible to break off the trails and spend a few days-uninterrupted watching deer, badgers, birds of prey etc.
While the Military do use the New Forest for maneuvers, you rarely trip over them. I suspect I was spotted because my Bergen and chest rig were Camo/DPM, HUGE, I was out in weather that no sane person would be walking of their own volition and I was carrying my spotterscope and tripod at waist level (as I was unable to shoulder it because of my chest rig and bergen ), head down and walking hard - I guess as I walked through this tiny village, some 'old dear' thought I was a soldier, mistook my tripod for a military rifle and phoned the police.
I wasn't amused at the time as I'd done myself a serious injury (I still have Achilles tendentious!) carrying so much kit - Five years on - I think it's quite funny.
Tony Cameron
31-08-2005, 19:38
Cut down on clothes . The set you are stood in and a little spare, maybe underpants !
The rest seems ok. I take Tarp, Hammock and emergency blanket in case but no tent.
When I started out I did the same but will go now with 50ltr sack maximum for weekend.
simonsays
31-08-2005, 19:55
Anyone who has ever seen me out and about would probably say that I am the last person who should give advice on packing light (See my avatar) but I am -trying- to whittle the kit down.
Looking at your kit list I would consider cutting out a few things. The second spare set of clothes probably wont be needed on a weekend outing. I wouldnt bother taking the knife and fork, always seem to manage with just a spoon (you could even carve one) and if you take the Trangia you can do without the mess tins.
As someone else pointed out, the ration packs are probably too much food. Rather than just packing 'em try and plan out what you will have for each meal and keep just a little in reserve.
Good luck with the weight loss......
Simon
lostplanet
31-08-2005, 20:27
seeing this thread rather makes a new one pointless so would you guys post average weight of your kit for a weekend? including the water you will carry would be good
been a while since ive been out, but on a dry run the other night i ended up carrying 22 kilo for a planned weekend out ie three nights, how does your gear weight compare AAMOI?
issue bergen and side pouches
ortlieb extra large lightweight canoe bag.
various stuff sacks
dutch issue poncho
thermarest
snugpak travelite bag
issue goretex bivvy bag
2x issue 58 waterbottles
1x ortlieb 2L
2x issue mess tins
pocket rocket
large gas canister
spoon
2x 24hr rat packs
stainless steel nato mug
2x tshirts spare
1x spare lightweight denims
2x spare socks
1x norgey
2x spare undies
pair of seal skinz
issue dpm goretex smock
issue dpm goretex trouser
shemagh as towel, hat (at night)etc
knife
cord
first aid kit/emergency bits
wash kit
notebook,pen, map compass and case
petzl tikka plus
paramo gaiters (maybe?)
silly boonie hat
bog roll, wet-ones
wearing:
black smock
t shirt
OG light weight denims
alt bergs
undies, etc
sounds like im going on a mission i know.....
im expecting bad weather and although i dont want to carry loads of excess kit i would like to get used to a heavier bag for fitness aspect.
also after some research i found that the issue rat packs work out at about 2500 calories, does anyone know different for sure?
cheers
light is the way to go! when i'm off out for the night/weekend this is what usualy in my pack (35L forces 33 if i'm not walking far, or my 50L vaude H2O proof for distance, comfy harness!)
sleeping system:
buffalo down 'bag (for summer, need a bigger pack to fit the winter 'bag)
3/4 thermarest
hammock
aussie hootchi
cooking (cant leave home without these, ever lol):
coleman F1 ultralight w/50 size canister
my trusty mug
pancake mix and small pan
clothing:
spare t-shirt
fleece
waterproof/windproof outer
spare socks
food/water:
camelpack
meals/snacks depending on time of year and duration
(dehydrated when possible)
firstaid:
assorted plasters, antiseptic cream, 2nd skin
other:
bush knife
mag block with striker (soon to be replaced by a fire steel)
opinel no 4
think thats it, i had a list a while ago but i'm a tad chaotic when it come to keeping stuff on file... :o
weight wise, i think it usualy comes in at under 10 kg, if my memory is still working. i've got to keep the kg down as my puffin only has a 130 kg payload, and i'm quite big (its all ballast for the front row, honest) so the lighter the weight the longer i can canoe for. :D
22kg for a weekend is insane!! Even if it were mid UK winter!! I'll get a list together myself for winter in South East Australian Great Dividing Range. Average temps night / morning 0 to -5c sometimes going down to -10 / -12c. I'll get back soon with this.
lostplanet
I know you say you want to do this for fitness etc but as in get fit for what, to carry heavier packs???
I'd start by examining your Bergen itself, empty what does it weigh 2.5 maybe 3 kgs plus?? For a weekend find another pack. Dump the side pouches for a start and save another 500grams! Two issue mess tins ditch them! Find the largest stainless steel cup you can find they are almost like a small billy but with a handle on the side and weigh almost nothing! Dump at least one spare T-Shirt, Ortlieb water carrier plus two Nato Bottles? That lot just to begin with will save you at least 5kgs. Two 24 hour rat packs? IMHO heaviest outdoor food option on the planet!
lostplanet
31-08-2005, 23:25
sorry to jack this thread...
the bergen alone weighs 2.5 kilos.
heavier packs, Yep, the fitness thing is where i eventually want to go climbing and the kit with ropes harness etc probably weighs twice that so there is a little method in my madness. i didnt feel too bad the other night with 22k but then i only did a 4 mile bimble.is an aussie kilo the same as a pomme one? ;)
got a nato mug, side pouches weigh 0.7 kilo, mess tins weigh 0.4 kilo
got to have the grub but i know what you mean 1.7 kilos per pack, most of this will be in belly first thing in the morning.so if i leave out the water thats 7 kilos ish off.looking futher into it now.
thanks btw
lostplanet
01-09-2005, 00:07
ok ditched goretex jacket (use ponchno instead), 1 rat pack and add couple of dried jobbys, 1 t shirt, 2L water(undecided),
ortlieb dry bag (use bin liner instead) side pouches, mess tins, gaiters, some other crap.
now weighing at 12.2 Kilos so i could prolly get it down to 10 if i was ruthless.
lostplanet
01-09-2005, 00:33
now ditched the bergen and managed to get all my kit in the 30L sabre :eek:
but weighs in at 8.6 kilos :D , wheres that 45 sabre deal thread mmm :rolleyes:
ok ditched goretex jacket (use ponchno instead), 1 rat pack and add couple of dried jobbys, 1 t shirt, 2L water(undecided),
ortlieb dry bag (use bin liner instead) side pouches, mess tins, gaiters, some other crap.
now weighing at 12.2 Kilos so i could prolly get it down to 10 if i was ruthless.
Dried jobbies? :eek:
You take them with you?
wentworth
01-09-2005, 00:50
When trying to cut down gear weight, ultralighters talk about base-weight, which is the weight of your pack minus food and water. You can't really lighten up water...
When I first started weighing my gear individually, I was appalled at how much seemingly insignificant items weighed. It all adds up.
When I was using an 8 by 10 tarp and half length foam pad for shelter, my total gear weighed 3.3kg. But I wasn't comfortable, so now I use a hammock and underquilt and my gear is just above 5kg.
redcollective
01-09-2005, 01:13
Dried jobbies? :eek:
You take them with you?
Yep I was laughing my _rse off at that one too ;-) lol
When people are referring to ration packs, do you mean an individidual meal or do you mean 2xmeals, soup, oat block etc etc?
lostplanet
01-09-2005, 10:33
Dried jobbies? :eek:
You take them with you?
oops, i'll choose my descriptions a bit better in future :o :)
I think current British ration packs are about 4000 kcal - if you eat it all, that is!
http://www.mod.uk/dlo/catering/operations/ops2/24hr_orp.htm#Main%20Features
Should add that this refers to the query about their calorific value, rather than dried jobbies......
BlueTrain
01-09-2005, 12:01
Most of the early outdoor writers like Nessmuk and Kephart stressed keeping the weight down but when I go back and re-read some of the weights they quoted, I begin to wonder about the truthfulness of some of the numbers, honestly. I do weigh some of my own gear now and then, although the total is more interesting than individual weights. I find that it is difficult to keep it under 20 pounds if water is included and that it jumps to over 30 pounds very quickly, for some reason. I also note that those early writers I mention apparently did not carry water or at least not very much. But Kephart went in a lot of detail about purifying water so it wasn't as if he thought he could take water from anywhere. In my case, I've noticed that the weight of water in my standard load is the single heaviest item. So if I carry no more than one pint and purify the rest that I need by boiling with my gas stove, I more than make up for the weight of the stove. (I don't own a filter). That is, provided you have a source of water to begin with. Again in my case, I have been places where the trail was crossed by creeks in several places and was like that over half of my trip, but the other half of the trip (of a ten mile circle hike) was perfectly dry with no water source anywhere. I guess you can't have everything.
However, there is more to it than simple weight.
For one thing, a pack that fits well and is comfortable, yet weighs a few pounds more, just might be a better choice for covering ground pain-free. That also applies to boots. Did you ever notice, by the way, that armies use boots that most backpackers would find too high or too heavy and more recent ones are even more so. But as Horace Kephart also said, "They are not out for the fun of it."
The question of weight is also a compromise between the discomfort and effort of carrying things and the comfort of having them. You could probably get by with a ground sheet, a bottle of water, a handful of something to eat and so on, but would you want to?
In response to the person referring to wilderness here in the U.S., it is my assertion that there is practically none east of the Mississippi (outside of Maine, perhaps). This is not to say that there are no remote, secluded or isolated places with wild animals and no roads. It's just that I define wilderness a little more narrowly than that. Just the way I define emergency.
jamesdevine
01-09-2005, 12:46
I think Blue trains thought regarding the type of pack you are using and the boots you are wearing are key to all this.
As a rule other then in mid winter my weekend pack never weight anything more the 15kg and more often then not it's below that. On a resent overnight trip my kit consided of
Swedish Army 35lt rucksack 2kg
Sleeping bag (heavy, cheap and bulky)
bivvy bag and basha
head torch
Wooden Spoon
58 bottle, SS mug and cooker unit in beltpouch
FAK
Knife
Fire light kit
10cm Billy
1x Spares socks
1x Spare jumper
M65 jacket
2ltr Flexi Flask
map and compass.
Food for two main meals, one breakfast + chocolate
2x tea bags + 2x Hot Chocolate.
Sun Hat
It all weight in at 12KG. It was more then enogh and with a little more food one have done for the weekend. But the pack got uncomfortable as did my boots (partly due to my own poor fittness, the heat and the amount of road walking we had to do) it felt a lot heavier.
James
Minotaur
02-09-2005, 15:08
I'm terrible at packing, either i've got way too much or (infrequently!) too little. i think i read someone (possibly the book of the bivi) that the way to reduce kit weight is as follows.
Get home, unpack. Divide kit into three piles, the stuff you used every day, the stuff ou used on the odd occasion, the stuff you didn't use.
now making exceptions like first aid kits, chuck all the stuff in piles 2 and 3.
drastic, and i fully confess i've yet to try this method!!!
all the best
sc
I know someone who could do this.
But with me that spare pair of ... always seem to get in the ruc and then I better take that, you never know. :rolleyes:
Minotaur
02-09-2005, 15:11
I find that it is difficult to keep it under 20 pounds if water is included and that it jumps to over 30 pounds very quickly, for some reason. I also note that those early writers I mention apparently did not carry water or at least not very much. But Kephart went in a lot of detail about purifying water so it wasn't as if he thought he could take water from anywhere.
I think, a lot of the lightweights avoid giving weights with water and sometimes food.
That said, one of them had a clever set up of two hydration sacs and a filter so he only carried three litres a day.
This is what I was thinking I would pack for a weekend away.
What do you think? To much??? :confused: :confused:
Packed into Sabre 45 + Side Pockets
Main
-----
Sleeping Bag
Bivi Bag
Therm-a-Rest
Change of Clothes
2 x Socks
2 x Pants
1 x Combats
2 x T-Shirts
1 x Norgi Top
Tent/Basha
Side Pouch
----------
Swedish Army Trangia (Packed Inside "Scourer, Dish Washing Liquid, KFS, Hand Wash")
Meths
Tinder Pouch
Note Book & Pen/Pencil
Para Cord
Poncho
Toilet Roll
Side Pouch
----------
Water Bottles
Spoon Knife
Drink Kit
Food
Wash Kit (Toothpaste, Soap, Toothbursh, Hairbrush, Deoderant)
Towel
Torch + Spare Batteries
Top Pocket
----------
First Aid
Wooly Hat
Gloves
Grez..
Tent/Basha and Poncho? you'll only need one of these items
you'll be wearing one set of clothes there, so you only need one set of clothes in the bag, which you will only need to use if your main set gets soaked.
Hairbrush, Deoderant....... Why? night on the town :confused:
Thanks for the feedback Stuart.
When I laid it out I was wondering if I was taking to much. The total weight is currently 17kg when packed which isn't as bad as I had first thought.
Hairbrush, Deoderant....... Why? night on the town
Hmmm hind sight is a wonderful thing.. I can't really give a reason but why, But it seemed like a good idea at the time.... :D
Grez..
Yep agree with Stuart on the clothes, Although a spare T-shirt maybe worth the time.
I can see where you are coming from with the Basha/ tent and the poncho, ie; if you are setting up your cover when it is piddling down you want waterproofs on as you are doing it. Depending on your type of poncho you may have to take it off when you take you sabre 45 off, you will get wet anyway.
Keep the basha easily accessible, side pouch or just under the top flap of the sack.
Toilet roll???
You're better of with the packs of handy andies (if that's what they still call them), I can get ten packs for a quid in my local area, they are small, easy to pack and because they are packed in ten sheets if one pack gets wet that's not all your toilet roll gone to mush in your daysack.
You don't need dish washing liquid and hand soap, just use an all purpose soap if you feel the requirement to wash your dishes with a detergent (all purpose you can wash with, you can do your laundry, use for food prep and do your dishes in).
You don't need a fork or knife as we all carry enough bits to cut with, forks are pretty much redundant in the feild so no requirement for KFS only really a spoon (which you could carve when you are out there).
Generally it's a pretty good list and the things picked on are just me knitpicking:D
arctic hobo
15-09-2005, 16:30
I can see where you are coming from with the Basha/ tent and the poncho, ie; if you are setting up your cover when it is piddling down you want waterproofs on as you are doing it. Depending on your type of poncho you may have to take it off when you take you sabre 45 off, you will get wet anyway.
Keep the basha easily accessible, side pouch or just under the top flap of the sack.
This is why I love the Fjellduken - instead of (potentially) carrying a basha, a poncho/waterproofs, a survival bag, possibly a foil blanket as well, and a bag cover, you can have the Fjellduken, use it as a poncho that eliminates the bag cover, tie the sides out while you're under it, then pull out your head - bingo! one basha, and you're still dry.
Toilet roll???
You're better of with the packs of handy andies (if that's what they still call them), I can get ten packs for a quid in my local area, they are small, easy to pack and because they are packed in ten sheets if one pack gets wet that's not all your toilet roll gone to mush in your daysack.
Also, you can, er, use vaseline that can, er, eliminate the need for the above :eek:
Sorry if I'm being incredibly dull, but how can vaseline replace toilet paper? :confused:
Bewildered Ted W
A dab of vaseline in the right place before you start srops anything sticking :eek:
charlie.b.c.
16-09-2005, 10:46
1 change of clothes should be suffice only just to sleep in if your other clothes get wet saves you getting sleeping bag damp,,,,,opt for tarp rather than a bivi bag,,cooker if you can make a fire no need for cooker otherwise take only one,a collapsable swedish issue mug are handy to keep even in your pocket,wash kit depends how you are with vanity (ha ha),spoon only no knife and fork my view is you dont eat a lump of sirloin when camping like we do otherwise use your fingers or a non poisonous piece of wood, i hope these ideas help the only real way to test yourself is to leave the gagdets at home,,test yourself in a controlled enviroment for example i smoke so when i go camping or need to light a fire ill leave my matches/lighter at home so if i need to make a fire i would have to use my fire steel or c steel say to produce flame etc hope this helps ,,,charlie.b.c.
jay120970
17-09-2005, 07:48
well here goes
norge army bergen
2xus water bottles with covers and one us mug
swedish field cooker
folding kfs set with belt pouch
sleeping bag
bivi bag and tarp
roll mat
waterproof pants and coat hence no need for spare clothes as you can use the waterproofs for spares as well
food
knife x1
strike a light and spare matches and cottonwool
spare socks
wash kit
i use drygrass for scrubbing my pots after using them gets 90% of the greese of
and thats it for summer
winter is an other kettle of fish :)
nzgunnie
18-09-2005, 01:27
A couple of years ago, 'ultra light' tramping was starting to get a bit fashionable here, there was a guy, a Brit I think, who was singing it's praises. A few articles appeared in our Wilderness magazine about the possibility of making your own light weight pack, only carrying a lightweight fly sheet and some fancy kind of sleeping bag (can't quite remember the details of that one), the lightest boots possible etc. One very interesting article was by a chap who had suffered a bad back injury and was not able to carry heavy gear, so he had designed and built lots of lightweight stuff. I too had problems with my back so it was a concept that interested me as well.
Then one of these guys that had been trying to promote this concept of Ultra-light gear went up into the Southern Alps in the South Island and promptly perished when the weather turned (which it inevitably always does). Very unfortunate, but his kit just wasn't up to the job. The mags here changed their tune a little after that and suggested that light weight kit is great when things are going well, but it had better be up to the job when everything went pear shaped, otherwise it was lethal. The whole concept that had seemed so popular, and was going to revolutionise the outdoors has just faded away since then.
I think the secret of lightweight is in the size of the rucksack. You will pack your rucksack until it's full. Bigger pack=more stuff in it, smaller pack=more compromises, more creativity. I have a 40l backpack, and its comfortably enough for summer, and barely enough for winter. My full pack weight nowadays for a 3 day/2 night weekend is about 11-12kg, with 3l water.
shelter&sleep:
- that cheap 3x2m tarp that rattles in the wind if not tight enough
- some cord
- 1kg sleeping bag (2kg bag for winter)
- closed cell foam pad
- wool socks
- cap
- polypro t-shirt (and soon a polypro longjohn)
- polartec sweatshirt
food&water
- ramen noodles or alike freeze dried pasta if the weight is important (much hike);
- or bread, bacon, sausage, onions if i want to feel good :)
- 3l camelbak unbottle
- sometimes a first need deluxe water purifier pump (about 0.45kg)
- tatonka sherpa 1l stainless pot with lid
- steel spoon
other things
- silva field26 compass on lanyard around my neck
- petzl myo xp led headlamp
- first aid kit
- fallkniven F1 knife
- victorinox huntsman folder
- some cheap but good folding saw
- 3-4 bic lighters, scattered around in pockets everywhere
- swedish firesteel (the small, scout model, accidentaly)
- small bio degradeable unscented soup
- canon a60 digital camera
In winter there is a second polartec sweatshirt and a 2kg sleeping bag instead of the 1kg.
The polar pullover and polypro underwear are not cold even when wet, and its not that rainy here, so i dont really need proper raingear, but add that to your kit for your own safety if you feel the need.
BlueTrain
19-09-2005, 11:56
The reference to the size of the pack and how much stuff you end up taking is something to think about. But a lot of people probably have only one good pack for overnight use anyway, so that many not always be useful information.
In my own case, I find that the difference in what I take between winter and summer, or more correctly, cold weather and warm weather, is not that great. For cold weather, there is a sleeping bag but that is too much as the temperature is higher and a wool blanket or a US Army poncho liner is substituted. I find that trying to substitute for the sleeping bag at cooler temperatures by wearing a jacket of some sort doesn't work for me. Also, the relevant temperature is whatever it is a 3:00 AM, not at 3:00 PM, which can be a big difference. So I tend to lean towards the sleeping bag and part of the reason is the softness as a bed compared with the alternatives. We have two sleeping bags in the house (everyone in the family uses them now and then) and they are both 25 years old. In fact, most of my stuff is that old on the average.
I also carry a couple of other warm things in cold weather but the biggest difference is the bulk of the sleeping bag.
But there is more to it than that. I also note that the food and water (if carried) are a large part of the weight, at least the way I go about it. Water is always problematic. I have always carried more than I have drunk but I probably don't drink enough water. I don't have a filter of any sort but have relied on boiling water to take care of that end. But that leaves you with warm water and even the following morning it can still be warm if it is anywhere near as warm as it sometimes is around here, just like it will be today. But I guess I could try putting the water bottle in the creek and cool it that way.
I always have a tent because I think the insects are bad where I go during the summer. In cold weather the tent makes a big difference in warmth. But the tent, poles and pins weigh four pounds and I think it's worth it.
It sure is hard to keep the weight down, isn't it?
bob_the_bomb
12-10-2008, 05:48
drop the K and F from your KFS. If you have a bivvy do you need a basha? (or vice versa). Tin mug = no mess tins. Sorry to be a heretic but I think trangias are rubbish unless you can walk 100m to the shop selling your next hit of meths. I have used an optimus for 20+ years and can find petrol anywhere, so that one small sig bottle is enough
lostplanet
12-10-2008, 09:16
hey bob, a good idea is to check the dates on the threads you are replying too mate....Welcome to the forums :)