View Full Version : Thanks Button
I've just been over on BcUSA again, mainly because it's so quiet here with lots of people at the Moot.
I couldn't help thinking how useful the "Thanks" button is that they have on there.
There are many times that I read a post, think "that's good" but don't have anything useful to add the the thread so don't leave a comment.
Over there I just click the button and it leaves a simple message of appreciation.
The Following User Says Thank You to (Insert Name) For This Useful Post: Then a list of those that have thanked the poster.
It seems like a nice way to leave feedback without being as open to abuse as the old Rep system.
Just a thought.
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 16:43
I can't stand it Gary. It clutters up the thread and is used by people to be rude as well, without actually having to post anything. It all seems a bit brown-nosey for my tastes with a build up of sycophants around the prominent posters and Mods. Might suit the US forum, but I'd hate to see it here. The rep system was pretty much the same.
I like to thank people by posting in the thread. Much more personal and keeps it moving.
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 17:01
Now if there was a Thanks button on here now. You would get people thanking you for your post (those that agree), and people thanking me for my post (those that don't). All well and good, but you lose peoples detailed opinion then and a discussion or conversation is lost.
shaggystu
07-08-2011, 17:05
i'd like to thank gary and jonathan for their useful posts on this subject
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 17:19
i'd like to thank gary and jonathan for their useful posts on this subject
What we do need is a whole load of facepalm emoticons.
Now if there was a Thanks button on here now. You would get people thanking you for your post (those that agree), and people thanking me for my post (those that don't). All well and good, but you lose peoples detailed opinion then and a discussion or conversation is lost.
I'm not sure you do, look at the "French Windlass (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77410)" thread for example, currently 266 views and only 13 replies, 4 of those by me.
That's fairly typical of many threads here that don't contain sharp or shiny kit.
Not much detailed opinion, discussion or conversation going on there then is there.
Patrick McGlinchy mentioned the same sort of thing when I met him last. Kit gets far more discussion than anything really bushcrafty and that is a poor show when you consider some of the fantastic work he posts up on here.
It would just be nice sometimes to be able to pass on a little appreciation even if people can't be bothered to actually make a post.
shaggystu
07-08-2011, 17:32
What we do need is a whole load of facepalm emoticons.
sorry, i couldn't resisit it.
in all seriousness i do agree with both of your points of view on this one, i think it would be nice to be able to "thank" someone for a post, but i do think that it'd end up a bit cliquey. personally i think that it'd end in tears.
stuart
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 17:40
I'm not sure you do, look at the "French Windlass (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77410)" thread for example, currently 266 views and only 13 replies, 4 of those by me.
That's fairly typical of many threads here that don't contain sharp or shiny kit.
Not much detailed opinion, discussion or conversation going on there then is there.
Patrick McGlinchy mentioned the same sort of thing when I met him last. Kit gets far more discussion than anything really bushcrafty and that is a poor show when you consider some of the fantastic work he posts up on here.
It would just be nice sometimes to be able to pass on a little appreciation even if people can't be bothered to actually make a post.
In that respect it may be useful if the original poster doesn't think his posts are appreciated, and because of that fails to make many more useful posts. But I believe the negatives way outweigh the positives, and you do get those cliquey groups continually thanking the same people, and the system getting used to deride others by certain people thanking sarcastic posts against them. It's those instances (and there are loads over there), where it fails big time. I've even had PMs off people over there in the past judging me because I haven't 'thanked' enough people, and my thanks given was much lower than thanks recieved and that wasn't on. I even left and re-joined to leave all that behind.
shaggystu
07-08-2011, 17:47
...
Patrick McGlinchy mentioned the same sort of thing when I met him last. Kit gets far more discussion than anything really bushcrafty and that is a poor show when you consider some of the fantastic work he posts up on here.
It would just be nice sometimes to be able to pass on a little appreciation even if people can't be bothered to actually make a post.
i can see your point wayland, kit does get much more discussion on here than anything else, there's a perfectly simple reason for that though, people like to talk about kit. it is a crying shame that some outstanding posts, for example patricks posts about his beautifully crafted bushcraft items, do tend to get drowned out by the sheer weight of posts about shiny shiny thingamabobs, but we do already have a system to give people (and i'm sure that patrick must be one of these people) very high praise indeed by promoting their posts to articles on the main site. maybe we could have a system whereby we can nominate threads to be made into articles and then possibly a "thanks for this useful article" function. maybe that would strike a reasonable compromise between "thanks for this useful post" and nothing at all
stuart
Maybe so, I don't know.
Cliques happen whatever you do, not much can change that. It's a shame the old system was abused by certain people but I didn't think it was all bad.
I don't think it's necessary to keep or record a "Score" on these sorts of things but a nice thought is always a pleasant gift.
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 17:57
The 'Thanks Button' feature may work when applied only to the original post and not to the replies within that thread. It is when people start thanking the replies that it all goes wrong and snidey.
I like that idea of just the first post being thanked, but then that idea came up at post 11, which would make that the post I would like, I also agree that it does clutter up the screen with a box of names under each post, I've not been long enough to notice cliques and don't tend to hit the thank thing but have never liked any of the rep type things on forums, don't really see a need for it, it doesn't take long to type a thank you?
shaggystu
07-08-2011, 18:09
I like that idea of just the first post being thanked, but then that idea came up at post 11....
oh the cruel irony of it all!
mrcairney
07-08-2011, 18:15
Interestingly, I read Gary's windlass post and found it very interesting. I guess I could have said that in the thread, even if it serves as nothing more than a bump. I often fave / subscribe to threads I haven't posted in too (got kit, idea and technique folders). But I guess that's a bit like blinking in the dark; only I know I'm doing it...
Hmmmm.
The rep system was abused by a very, very small number of idiots; who, come to think on it don't post here now anyway :rolleyes:
I'm not quite a fan of the 'thanks' postscripts tbh; for all the reasons JD gives; but; and it's a big but, I do think that some acknowledgment is a very good thing :)
Could we not just have a star award thingie. If you like the post add one. ?
If you don't, since I suppose we have to be even handed, a red cross ? or a black dot ?
or better yet, just keep it really simple, you can only add or detract rep if you have rep.
That won't work either, that's what BB used to have before it was also sabotaged by those who should have known better.
You know what the answer is ? Folks need to get over their silence and just type in a quick note of appreciation. It's not hard, it's even easier than texting :D
I would like to see emoticons more along the lines of the ones that Wayland uses.
Actually, there's a good idea ......instead of a list of folks who thanked someone, how about a place to put up an emoticon after the post so that the thread doesn't get too cluttered and so that the OP feels appreciated :cool:
Would that work ? and can we get Admin to agree and sort it out for us ?
cheers,
Toddy
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 18:33
Actually, there's a good idea ......instead of a list of folks who thanked someone, how about a place to put up an emoticon after the post so that the thread doesn't get too cluttered and so that the OP feels appreciated :cool:
But how about if someone puts up one of these after your post, just because they had a few bevs, are grumpy or just up for devilment...
:rolleyes: :sleeping::rofl::rant::vio::bl uThinki:aargh4::buttkick::dead horse::censored:
Not gonna make the OP feel appreciated really is it. Even though they are mostly mild.
mountainm
07-08-2011, 18:44
How about a "recommended button", but instead of changing the thread it appears as a recommendation in your profile. So when I view your profile I get to see the kind of things youre interested in and the OP gets a little message telling him/her they've been recommended.
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/seesaw.gifYep. Emoticons can go both ways unfortunately.
I think the star rating has merit but I'm wary of negative feedback, I think that way lies madness...http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/canofworms.png
shaggystu
07-08-2011, 18:49
How about a "recommended button", but instead of changing the thread it appears as a recommendation in your profile. So when I view your profile I get to see the kind of things youre interested in and the OP gets a little message telling him/her they've been recommended.
now that's a superb idea, i like that a lot
stuart
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 18:54
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/seesaw.gifYep. Emoticons can go both ways unfortunately.
I think the star rating has merit but I'm wary of negative feedback, I think that way lies madness...http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/canofworms.png
Agreed
http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/dejanj01/dejanj010910/dejanj01091000022/5682604-smiley-ball-hate-another-smiley-ball.jpg
We're just geting into a smiley battle now aren't we... http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/combat-jedi1.gif
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 19:06
We're just geting into a smiley battle now aren't we... http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/combat-jedi1.gif
Wouldn't dream of it http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/snake1.gif
We're just geting into a smiley battle now aren't we... http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/combat-jedi1.gif
If we are, you better let it go before HE comes out
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5KjSl110Omw/Sio1__heSvI/AAAAAAAAAFA/qKRzv6I5SXQ/s320/rambo-rambo-john-gun-smiley-emoticon-000137-large.gif
But you can give a thread a star rating already,
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 19:14
But you can give a thread a star rating already,
Yeah you can, but it's not clear as clicking a button displayed prominently within. In fact it is almost hidden in plain view.
MartinK9
07-08-2011, 19:23
We're just geting into a smiley battle now aren't we... http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/combat-jedi1.gif
Wouldn't dream of it http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/snake1.gif
Me neither.
6935
The old rep system was nice. Folks would sometimes leave little messages in my profile for me to read, and I missed them when the system died a death :sigh:
They were usually just a little happy thank you, but sometimes they led to links, and sometimes to conversation with like minded people :D
I suspect that if we'd been sure we knew all of the culprits we might just have slapped infractions on them, removed their rep counts and stopped them using it again; but it was a logistical conundrum and Admin was swamped at the time and we were being hit by that huge wave of E. European and Chinese spammers too.
At the end of the day, the decision to kill it entirely was the most straightforward course to take.
As a comment on Patrick's threads, and bear in mind that I am a great admirer of his work, he took the photos down so fast that folks I'd told about his last thread on cordage never got a chance to see it. Cannae have it both ways.
cheers,
M
Are we all being a little precious about what we post?, I think what I post is OK when I start a thread(Obviously a lot of my posts in threads are a little chaff), but couldn't care less for being thanked, if there are a lot of views but no comments, I don't see it as a slight, just that that many people have clicked on a thread I started, do we really need to be thanked for passing on something to the forum? I know its nice but does it really matter?
mountainm
07-08-2011, 19:44
Are we all being a little precious about what we post?, I think what I post is OK when I start a thread(Obviously a lot of my posts in threads are a little chaff), but couldn't care less for being thanked, if there are a lot of views but no comments, I don't see it as a slight, just that that many people have clicked on a thread I started, do we really need to be thanked for passing on something to the forum? I know its nice but does it really matter?
I dunno, I wouldnt normally have read the windlass thread as I thought it was summut to do with boats, but had it been flagged in some way then I may have checked it out.
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 19:48
Are we all being a little precious about what we post?, I think what I post is OK when I start a thread(Obviously a lot of my posts in threads are a little chaff), but couldn't care less for being thanked, if there are a lot of views but no comments, I don't see it as a slight, just that that many people have clicked on a thread I started, do we really need to be thanked for passing on something to the forum? I know its nice but does it really matter?
That's exactly how I feel. I post quite a bit on tracking that get few replies. Doesn't bother me. If people want to read it, it's there, if they don't, then I won't lose sleep over it. Few replies doesn't mean any interest. I was interested in the Windlass thread, read it, took away some interesting knowledge and moved on. I didn't have anything to add, so didn't reply. I still dip in to see if others do though.
santaman2000
07-08-2011, 19:48
...You know what the answer is ? Folks need to get over their silence and just type in a quick note of appreciation. It's not hard, it's even easier than texting...
Agreed. But the problem isn't POSTING the reply; it's the clutter of the subsequent readers having to read posts that basically thank a prior poster without actually adding to the conversation. That's why I disagree with JD's assertion that they ADD clutter; rather I assert that they DECREASE clutter.
santaman2000
07-08-2011, 19:54
Are we all being a little precious about what we post?, I think what I post is OK when I start a thread(Obviously a lot of my posts in threads are a little chaff), but couldn't care less for being thanked, if there are a lot of views but no comments, I don't see it as a slight, just that that many people have clicked on a thread I started, do we really need to be thanked for passing on something to the forum? I know its nice but does it really matter?
Maybe so. But apart from just giving a poster a warm feeling, being thanked might also spur him to believe there's enough interest in whatever subject/info to add more.
Interestingly I see this as most useful on "kit" posts. Someone starts a post wanting to know where to get this or that and subsequent posters get thanked for useful suggestions of kit sources.
I quite like the idea of a thanks/acknowledgement button. But, as has already been said, it's very open to manipulation.
I have no idea whether it would be workable, but would a clickable/tabbed 'This post has been thanked' be feasible? In effect it would be _a bit like_ having [HIDE] tags for pics ~ you choose to click and open/close for each individual post and if you don't click you don't see. That way, there isn't the potential for clutter below each post ~ unless you choose to make it so.
http://yoursmiles.org/ksmile/metal/k0328.gif
I think most of us who post threads are really just starting conversations :D It's kind of a big part of what the forum is about tbh.
Personally I love it when someone adds something useful to something I've written :cool: that way we all learn :D
I think any postive comment is encouraging though, and sometimes folks really need that.
cheers,
M
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 19:58
I don't feel any need to get thanked for my posts. They are what they are, get from them what you want or ignore them. I really don't want to see a list of people thanking me. That'd be a little weird. I seriously wouldn't want to see that and don't understand why anybody who starts a thread actually would want that.
demographic
07-08-2011, 20:21
On another forum I use there's a "Give Rep" button which seems to work quite well.
It just recognises that someone has made a useful contribution to a thread or has started an interesting thread. Because it recognises someone's helpful comments within a thread I don't think it should be confined to the thread starter.
Sometimes the thread starter starts a thread asking a question and would like to thank those who give useful answers.
That give rep button suited me fine :) but the system was the one that was abused. Folks gave reps for friends who had literally posted "cool" :sigh:
I don't quite agree with JD, I like feedback enough to know that what I posted was useful, or interesting, but I'm quite happy with that. As I said earlier, it's also a good way of starting a thread that pools information from many people :cool:
cheers,
M
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 20:42
That give rep button suited me fine :) but the system was the one that was abused. Folks gave reps for friends who had literally posted "cool" :sigh:
Now that is what annoys me on the other forum
I don't quite agree with JD, I like feedback enough to know that what I posted was useful, or interesting, but I'm quite happy with that. As I said earlier, it's also a good way of starting a thread that pools information from many people :cool:
cheers,
M
But don't you get that within the replies and the amount of visitors to the thread. A more prominent star system would be great so that threads get rated more easily and often, but rating individual posts is going too far. The rep system was awful as it set people up above others. The post count can sometimes be construed in the same way. I'm all for getting rid of a post count too and just having your join date. Just cos' you have a high post count, doesn't mean you have contributed to the community more and deserve respect. Just means you're a gobshiite and enjoy shootin' the s**t on here. Southey and myself being prime examples.
shaggystu
07-08-2011, 20:46
....I'm all for getting rid of a post count too and just having your join date. Just cos' you have a high post count, doesn't mean you have contributed to the community more and deserve respect. Just means you're a gobshiite and enjoy shootin' the s**t on here. Southey and myself being prime examples.
couldn't agree more (especially abou you and southey being gobshiites!), i no longer say "welcome to the forum" to all new members as a i used to because i realised that out of a thousand odd posts i'd only had a couple of dozen things to say
stuart
EDIT: Just means you're a gobshiite and enjoy shootin' the s**t on here. Southey and myself being prime examples.
OI!:nutkick::buttkick::slap::c offee::christmas1:
I can't stand it Gary.
Same here. Awful hack, nice idea but in practice, it just ends up being an ever growing list of names keen not to be the one left out, cluttering up the place. It's all very forced and contrived. Nice idea, but no thanks.
Now if we were talking about a "have a nice day" add on...... :D ;)
You're preaching to the choir here; I've got the highest post count on the forum :o
I've asked three times for Tony to kill mine so that it's just not seen, but he won't. I keep hoping British Red or someone else will overtake me.
That said, compared to sites like BB I'm not high volume really, and mine is a double one because posts in the Mods count too.
If we can thrash this idea out and come to some concensus I'll happily pester the Admins and see if we can get something organised.
Not sure if they'll do it though, because they're still sorting out stuff like skins, but it's got to be worth asking :D
cheers,
M
santaman2000
07-08-2011, 20:58
couldn't agree more (especially abou you and southey being gobshiites!), i no longer say "welcome to the forum" to all new members as a i used to because i realised that out of a thousand odd posts i'd only had a couple of dozen things to say
stuart
Gotta agree with eliminating the post count. I must confess though, I'd never given any thought to "welcomes" being part of it. That's a bit disconserting.
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 21:01
Same here. Awful hack, nice idea but in practice, it just ends up being an ever growing list of names keen not to be the one left out, cluttering up the place. Nice idea, but no thanks. ;)
Spot on. That is what I meant to put across in my posts, but failed to do.
You're preaching to the choir here; I've got the highest post count on the forum :o
I've asked three times for Tony to kill mine so that it's just not seen, but he won't. I keep hoping British Red or someone else will overtake me.
That said, compared to sites like BB I'm not high volume really, and mine is a double one because posts in the Mods count too.
If we can thrash this idea out and come to some concensus I'll happily pester the Admins and see if we can get something organised.
Not sure if they'll do it though, because they're still sorting out stuff like skins, but it's got to be worth asking :D
cheers,
M
Posts counts are useful when people are new as it helps sort the spammers and troublemakers out quickly. When you get to the few thousands though, I think it can become a negative thing.
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 21:05
couldn't agree more (especially abou you and southey being gobshiites!), i no longer say "welcome to the forum" to all new members as a i used to because i realised that out of a thousand odd posts i'd only had a couple of dozen things to say
stuart
No, really. I think welcoming new members is most important and the more people that do it the better. There are a few regulars that do it continually, and without those people the welcome would not be as strong. Keep it up. New blood is important to keep the forum flowing way into the future. We lose old members too remember and some new members go on to become the backbone of the forum. Welcoming such people with an array of posts, is very special.
Besides, look at No Idea. He only really replies in his own three threads and not much else. But those few posts he does post out of his own enormous threads, are usually very special and worth reading. He has a brilliant mind.
I can't stand it Gary. It clutters up the thread and is used by people to be rude as well, without actually having to post anything. It all seems a bit brown-nosey for my tastes with a build up of sycophants around the prominent posters and Mods. Might suit the US forum, but I'd hate to see it here. The rep system was pretty much the same.
I like to thank people by posting in the thread. Much more personal and keeps it moving.
Agree you you whole heartedly, the thanks button was seen by some over there as a sign of their supposed superior knowledge and interlect, also as also posted above, it was very clicky, in the end you saw a friend or someone you got on with post something up and you just clicked the Thanks button out of habit, it lost it's meaning very quickly, and yep, i was guilty of it too, i know a couple of guys over there who refused to use it, preferring the personal touch of actually posting in a thread to say thanks if they got something out of it.
Problem with that is, you feel a bit of a fraud/ a bit daft posting the same "Thanks for the info" or "that's nice" or the like in numerous threads through the day, i look at it this way, i post something up and get 300 views and 5 replies, i figure 300 people were interested enough to view the thread in the first place and if i get replies, well that's a bonus, sure more feedback and interaction would be nice, but i think people find it difficult to interact sometimes without feeling like a plum.
I'm surprised by the amount of negativity this has produced.
Maybe it's not a good idea to be nice to people after all.
Forgot to add thanks to Gary, Jonathan, Toddy, Southey, Decorum, my mum and dad, my sister, the hamster and anybody else who knows me:rolleyes:;)
JonathanD
07-08-2011, 22:14
I'm surprised by the amount of negativity this has produced.
Maybe it's not a good idea to be nice to people after all.
Not at all. Just that the THANKS system doesn't actually do that.
Not at all. Just that the THANKS system doesn't actually do that.
Exactly, all it does is promote little cliques of people like the old rep system did, it's a great idea in principal Gary, but in reality it doesnt work as it's designed to do.
shaggystu
07-08-2011, 22:32
No, really. I think welcoming new members is most important and the more people that do it the better. There are a few regulars that do it continually, and without those people the welcome would not be as strong. Keep it up. New blood is important to keep the forum flowing way into the future. We lose old members too remember and some new members go on to become the backbone of the forum. Welcoming such people with an array of posts, is very special..........
you're right of course jonathan, i think i shall get back into the habit of saying hello to new members
I'm surprised by the amount of negativity this has produced.
Maybe it's not a good idea to be nice to people after all.
That's a straw man argument, it's not the same. A genuine and spontaneous note of thanks is always welcome, but a contrived and forced button pushing competition, just to slake a thirst for something meaningless, is equally meaningless. I do understand that if people are regular review writers, or kit experimenters like yourself (and myself, though not so much these days), that it is something of a thankless job. Probably those people would feel a little better motivated with such a thing, but it's not real. It's like those hacks that force you to post and say thanks in order to see the content. They are just junk posts with no sincerity whatsoever, made by people jumping on a band-wagon, or not wanting to be the odd one out, or in exchange for something of perceived value. It's just a cheap ego inflation device. A genuine note of thanks is worth a million such mouse clicks and takes up a fraction of the space.
I also think post counts are worthwhile, not to established members, but to new members. I would leave them, but perhaps disable them in the welcome section? I would say that though, because that's how it's been on BB for years. You get no credit in terms of a post count increment for saying welcome. You do it because you want to and get no numerical reward. I like that.
santaman2000
07-08-2011, 23:45
That's a straw man argument, it's not the same. A genuine and spontaneous note of thanks is always welcome, but a contrived and forced button pushing competition, just to slake a thirst for something meaningless, is equally meaningless... A genuine note of thanks is worth a million such mouse clicks and takes up a fraction of the space...
A good argument could be made that a "genuine" note of thanks is hand written rather than typed out on something as impersonal and anonymous as the internet.
Value of whatever form (typed or simply clicked) aside I dispute your assertion on which one takes up more space. That's the primary advantage of the "thanks button." It doesn't require a separate post for each person thanking the poster and doesn't unnecessarily lengthen the thread with idle chatter.
A good argument could be made that a "genuine" note of thanks is hand written rather than typed out on something as impersonal and anonymous as the internet. I would agree, but we are communicating and are unfortunately limited by the media we are using, to a keyboard and screen.
Value of whatever form (typed or simply clicked) aside I dispute your assertion on which one takes up more space. That's the primary advantage of the "thanks button." It doesn't require a separate post for each person thanking the poster and doesn't unnecessarily lengthen the thread with idle chatter.Yes if all the people who say thanks were to do so in a regular post, then it would take up more space. However, in use the hack adds buckets of annoying clutter. The reason being, is that ordinarily people wouldn't say thanks unless they felt a genuine desire to do so, which in practice happens much less frequently without the thanks hack. It's the rarity of a genuine thankyou, in part at least, which gives the sentiment some real value. In forums which run the thanks hack, the content seems broken continuously with huge random lists of people saying thanks for something someone said. If that happened in real life it'd drive you nuts.
If the object of such a hack is to genuinely reduce the amount of irritation a user experiences, from useless forum clutter and insincere three word posts, then for me at least, this hack fails catastrophically.
santaman2000
08-08-2011, 01:13
...Yes if all the people who say thanks were to do so in a regular post, then it would take up more space. However, in use the hack adds buckets of annoying clutter. The reason being, is that ordinarily people wouldn't say thanks unless they felt a genuine desire to do so, which in practice happens much less frequently without the thanks hack. It's the rarity of a genuine thankyou, in part at least, which gives the sentiment some real value. In forums which run the thanks hack, the content seems broken continuously with huge random lists of people saying thanks for something someone said...
I would agree that ultimately such thanks should not be visible on the thread itself. Just a small icon letting the poster (the one being thanked) know he has been thanked and that he can see by whom he was thanked simply by clicking the icon. But now we're really discussing format rather than principle.
I also agree that often on BCUSA the thanks button is used more as an agreement with a post than a true thank you. More like a "high five." That said, that in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing either.
Cliques occur no matter what but I'm not convinced that a "thanks button" is a cause; rather it's just another way to recognize said cliques.
santaman2000
08-08-2011, 01:21
I would agree, but we are communicating and are unfortunately limited by the media we are using, to a keyboard and screen...
Exactly! That's my whole point; we are limited by the media so there is no real reason not to fully use the technology if it helps declutter.
Ultimately it seems that the technology or principle is not at fault but the way people use it.
On BcUSA I use the button to acknowledge posts that I think are useful or make a good point but I also use it to thank people who have made the effort to respond to a thread that I have started. I think those uses are legitimate and of value.
I like the idea of thanks only being visible if an icon is clicked and I also do not think that "thanks" need to be collected and recorded as some kind of score. I think that leads to a collector mentality that is unhealthy.
I still like the thread star rating and this need not be linked to individuals in any way, could the use of that facility not be encouraged by making it more obvious?
I'm a Mod, and I only realised very recently that we had a star rating for threads :o
If 'I' didn't know then I suspect that a heck of a lot of other folks don't either.
I'll ask if something can be done to make that more prominant and easily found.
cheers,
M
forestwalker
08-08-2011, 08:14
I really like the basic idea, since it allows one to -- hopefully -- find usefull threads. I come from old usenet, where one can use a so called "kill" file (I know, but the name is there for hysterical raisins) to find threads that one is likely to want to read.
One way the system currently discussed could be to allow people to give stars to threads/posts, and that would be seen in some summary form on the thread list.
The only problem with the current star system is that a single vote has a disproportionate influence until other votes are made.
I think a simple vote for this thread button, allowing anonymous votes to accumulate through one to five star rating might be a good way of doing it.
That's another good idea :) and it has the benefit of being slowly accumulative and thus more likely a true representation of the thread's value :D
Another idea to be passed to Admin :approve:
cheers,
M
mountainm
08-08-2011, 13:11
If full members are to get access to "blogs" - llowing the user to add recommended posts (liked threads) to their blog would also be nice.
you can do that now but linking to the thread you like?
mountainm
08-08-2011, 13:16
you can do that now but linking to the thread you like?
I can't get the BCUK blogs to work for me? Where do you set it up?
sorry not in the blogs yet, but I mean you can link to a thread you like and have in your profile, I really like the blog idea! hope it does come off!
Sorry talking out my chuff, I think I mean in you signature, you can link off to any number of threads there
Suffolksteve
08-08-2011, 14:34
Personally I really like the idea of a thanks button, I am not a regular poster because I don't always feel I can add to conversation but I appreciate the huge amount of info and the time it takes to put it together and it would be nice if I could express that without clogging up the thread or having half my posts saying thanks.
For example I have spent hours looking at waylands ravenlore site and I am consistently trying to "borrow" his good ideas, so in the absence of a thanks button - Cheers! It is appreciated!
Maybe have a thank you button that doesn't show up on their signature or page like the posts count does but to their profile or so that only the user being thanked can see it. That way it might stop the cliques from abusing a new toy.
I wasn't around when the last thing was abused so maybe I am being naive.
Thanks Steve, that is exactly the kind of thing I'm concerned by, there are hundreds of user that visit the site but hardly ever post for diverse reasons.
I think a low effort, low commitment way of showing appreciation could be a valuable thing and encourage new posters. The old hands like myself don't really need it if I'm honest but I would like a simple way to say well done occasionally without clogging the thread with posts that don't really add much.
sasquatch
10-08-2011, 11:22
I'm surprised by the amount of negativity this has produced.
Maybe it's not a good idea to be nice to people after all.
It's not a case of not being nice Gary, on another forum I frequent all you see is people thanking others that have nothing to add to be seen rimming someone else. It's one of the few things that I detest on there as I don't care who thanks who for what, it's completely lost it's meaning now. If a certain person says something facetious in response to an honest post you get clingers on thanking him for being a tit!
I can see where you're coming from but on this other particular forum it just doesn't work and causes uneeded clutter. It's a great idea but hard to keep on track in practice, I'd hate to see BCUK go the same way!
udamiano
10-08-2011, 11:50
Personally my opinion is, that none of us do this for the thanks it would earn, we do this because our love of the subject. If a post garners us praise then great, if it doesn't, them we can only hope that even a small few found it helpful, and move on to the next....
we thats the way I look at it anyway
demographic
10-08-2011, 18:53
As far as I'm aware, the Thanks bit uses up less space then a thread reply.
<Shrugs>
As far as I'm aware, the Thanks bit uses up less space then a thread reply.
<Shrugs>
You think? Look here....
http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21172
The first post has a half screen sized list of names and pretty much every post in the thread has a sub-post thanking that too.
Are peoples ego's really so fragile that they need this? Thank you ....no thank you ....no really, thank you. Can I thank you too ...I'm Spartacus! :rolleyes:
shaggystu
10-08-2011, 19:26
You think? Look here....
http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21172
Are peoples ego's really so fragile that they need this?
a good point, incredibly well made
udamiano
10-08-2011, 19:37
While its nice to get a thankyou, I for one, will not loose any sleep if its not forthcoming. As for our friends site over the pond, well horses for courses really
demographic
10-08-2011, 21:22
You think? Look here....
http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21172
The first post has a half screen sized list of names and pretty much every post in the thread has a sub-post thanking that too.
Are peoples ego's really so fragile that they need this? Thank you ....no thank you ....no really, thank you. Can I thank you too ...I'm Spartacus! :rolleyes:
Err, well... Usually..
Anyway I was meaning in a taking up space in a forum memory kind of way, not a screen space way.
That forum does seem to be bolloxing it up though.
The example is a very popular thread and a poor example of abuse.
A lot of people thanking the original poster for a very useful thread and the OP thanking people that took the trouble to actually respond. What's so bad about that?
We've already suggested alternative systems that may suit this forum better but I still maintain that there is room for a low effort, low commitment way of showing appreciation.
shaggystu
10-08-2011, 22:05
The example is a very popular thread and a poor example of abuse.........
i think it was more an example of how cluttered the thanks button can make things wayland, that's way i read it anyway.
as for the rest of your message that i've snipped, i think most people are actually fairly agreeable to the idea of some form of "low effort, low commitment way of showing appreciation". what we seem to have got a little bogged down with is the idea of the BCUSA style thanks button, which quite a few people (myself included) really don't like. there's been quite a few suggestions as to how we could implement some sort of system, it's probably just a case now of working out which one we'd like to try and then talking the admins into trialling it. if it doesn't work then fine, the forum gets updated fairly regularly (at least it seems that way to me), surely it wouldn't be too hard to add/remove some sort of thanks function during such an update.
stuart
If it could be down to the individual as to weather its visible or not, I would be fine with that, as long as I could switch it off when viewing the forum,
Harvestman
10-08-2011, 23:30
There's been some very sensible suggestions made in this thread, and its definitely worth looking at a few of them for the admins, I suspect. My opinion? It ain't broke, so don't try to fix it.
Good discussion though. :)
The example is a very popular thread and a poor example of abuse.
It was an example of clutter rather than abuse, and please note, that the thanks button doesnt replace the "thankyou, well done, nice one" posts, they are there as well as, not instead of. Also, the issue of clutter gets worse the larger the forum. BcUSA has 11,000 members, BcUK has 22,000. As far as I can see, the only benefit is some kind of feel good factor if it's used properly. The negatives are many and have the potential to be quite destructive if abused - which it definitely would be. The cost to benefit ratio doesnt balance.
santaman2000
11-08-2011, 01:06
You think? Look here....
http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21172
The first post has a half screen sized list of names and pretty much every post in the thread has a sub-post thanking that too.
Are peoples ego's really so fragile that they need this? Thank you ....no thank you ....no really, thank you. Can I thank you too ...I'm Spartacus! :rolleyes:
I agree that the section showing the thanks takes up space. But the point is....think just how much space would have been taken up if each of those names had been an individual post instead. Even if that post had been nothing more than, "Thank you" or "+1" it would have been an entire 4 or 5 pages of posts instead. Posts that added nothing to the thread.
I agree that the section showing the thanks takes up space. But the point is....think just how much space would have been taken up if each of those names had been an individual post instead. Even if that post had been nothing more than, "Thank you" or "+1" it would have been an entire 4 or 5 pages of posts instead. Posts that added nothing to the thread.
You are assuming that each of those names would have posted a normal post if not for the thanks button. That's a fallacious assumption. Your argument is based on content being condensed by this hack, when in reality it doesnt do that. I would argue that the threads would contain the same number of posts, saying the same things with or without the thanks button. Which means that the those lists of names are all additional content.
santaman2000
11-08-2011, 01:41
You are assuming that each of those names would have posted a normal post if not for the thanks button. That's a fallacious assumption. Your argument is based on content being condensed by this hack, when in reality it doesnt do that. I would argue that the threads would contain the same number of posts, saying the same things with or without the thanks button. Which means that the those lists of names are all additional content.
That's certainly possible. However a more likely scenario is that the number would be somewhere in between. In any case there's no way of actually knowing either way. But as I and others have suggested, a format that didn't actually show up on screen unless called for/clicked on would easily solve the problem.
That's certainly possible. However a more likely scenario is that the number would be somewhere in between. In any case there's no way of actually knowing either way. But as I and others have suggested, a format that didn't actually show up on screen unless called for/clicked on would easily solve the problem.
I agree, both points are based on assumptions to some extent. But there is evidence that the wider community thinks this hack is ultimately detrimental. The hack was originally released for vbulletin 3*** some years ago. When it first came out, I did consider installing it on BB, as on the face of it, it looks like a cool alternative to the rep button. However, some forum owner that were quick to install it, started to report issues of clutter and misuse by cliques and quickly uninstalled the hack. You can see here [thanks hack on vbulletin.org (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=231666)] that the hack has been downloaded 13,000 times, but only 2,500 currently have it installed. That means 11,000 forum owners have tried it and then binned it for whatever reason. Also note, that the hack has not been supported by the developers since Jan 2010. There are lots of reasons why a coder stops developing a hack, but it often happens when the coder stops believing his hack is of real benefit to the software and communities that use it.
santaman2000
11-08-2011, 02:05
All valid concerns Martyn. I brought this question up in another thread a month or so ago and it's been well discussed in this one (with opinions going both ways) Perhaps the next step should be to put up a poll asking for votes and see what the numbers are (for or against)
All valid concerns Martyn. I brought this question up in another thread a month or so ago and it's been well discussed in this one (with opinions going both ways) Perhaps the next step should be to put up a poll asking for votes and see what the numbers are (for or against)
Yes, it's actually impossible to predict for sure how it would work one way or the other, but I'm not sure that "we dont know till we try it" is a valid reason for giving it a go. I'm also not sure the process is actually so democratic that it can be decided by a poll. I suspect Tony might want the deciding vote in the matter. I suppose a straw poll wouldn't hurt, I just worry that folks might get dazzled by the glint of a shiny new button before realising that all that glitters isn't gold.
santaman2000
11-08-2011, 02:19
Yes, it's actually impossible to predict for sure how it would work one way or the other, but I'm not sure that "we dont know till we try it" is a valid reason for giving it a go. I'm also not sure the process is actually so democratic that it can be decided by a poll. I suspect Tony might want the deciding vote in the matter. I suppose a straw poll wouldn't hurt, I just worry that folks might get dazzled by the glint of a shiny new button before realising that all that glitters isn't gold.
Of course I agree Tony's vote is the one that counts. Just think the straw poll might give him (and the rest of us) an idea what the membership thinks. Assuming it doesn't come up a dead heat. LOL
Of course I agree Tony's vote is the one that counts. Just think the straw poll might give him (and the rest of us) an idea what the membership thinks. Assuming it doesn't come up a dead heat. LOL
Yeah, I think that would be the right way to approach it ....I'd be sure to include an abstain option too, so Tony can also judge the level of apathy to the proposition. :)
santaman2000
11-08-2011, 04:56
LOL. Now if only someone knew how to set up the thread. Wayland? You started this one.
How about folks try using the "Rate Thread" button that we already have ?
I think that if that that were more used then perhaps we might already have some thanks/rep/ system already in place. Could that then perhaps be made a little more visible without adding screeds of names to the thanks ?
Just a tally number of people who bothered to rate the thread and the star value ?
Would that suffice ?
As it is many folks pm quiet thanks anyway.
cheers,
Toddy
santaman2000
11-08-2011, 12:40
Toddy, I don't know to be honest. Obviously the rate button would need to be more visible, yes. I don't even know where to find it.
Look at the bar just above your last post.
It's anything but obvious when reading down a thread, I have to admit.
The only way I can see the results are if I go into the forum for a particular topic.
cheers,
Toddy
santaman2000
11-08-2011, 15:28
Toddy, the bar above my last post only has the post # on the right and the date/time of post on the left. Nothing more.
JonathanD
11-08-2011, 15:29
Toddy, the bar above my last post only has the post # on the right and the date/time of post on the left. Nothing more.
Above that one. Look higher.
It's on the bar above the tread and it says "Rate this thread".
As Mary says it's not exactly obvious.
santaman2000
11-08-2011, 15:49
Above that one. Look higher.
Above that one (what looks to be the lower bar of the next post) there is an exclamation point (!) on the far left in a triangle, then on the right there is the "reply" option, next is the "reply with quote" option, and finally there isthe icon for multi quote.
Wait I do see it but it's only at the very top of the thread, not at each individual post.
JonathanD
11-08-2011, 15:53
Above that one (what looks to be the lower bar of the next post) there is an exclamation point (!) on the far left in a triangle, then on the right there is the "reply" option, next is the "reply with quote" option, and finally there isthe icon for multi quote.
Wait I do see it but it's only at the very top of the thread, not at each individual post.
Your post is actually at the top of the thread for us. You must have a slightly different view. I appears at the top of every page, not individual posts. It would be better if it was in bold or coloured differently to make it stand out.
Yep, that's what we're saying about it not being obvious, or being easily accessible if reading further down the page.
cheers,
Toddy
6952
tis here, my first unread post appears at the bottom of the page, but its mere milliseconds to scroll up to the rate button,