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was looking at pelican canoes on ebay and they seem to be some great deals on there
what do you guys think of these as a family canoe
dont want somthing to small but dont want somthing to heavy
or is it worth saving that bit more
Humpback
25-07-2011, 17:07
I looked at that make on ebay but decided to pay a bit more for a second hand model without the internal restrictions. Paid £500 in the end and well worth it.
Alan
I had a Pelican Navigator 13'6 which I bought second hand. It did us well for a couple of years and carried me, my wife and 2 children. It was fine for flat water in reasonable conditions but I have taken it out solo in force 3 on Bala lake and down grade 2 white water and it was pushing it's limits. Mine was actually pretty light but I gather than other models are quite heavy. I have since upgraded as it got to small as the kids grew and also as my paddling advanced I wanted something more capable. On the plus side when I traded it in I got back as much as I originally paid for it.
If you just want it for occasional use or just pootling about on flat water the pelican would do the job and there are lots of very happy owners out there. If paddling is likely to become a major hobby for you though you may find that you want to upgrade after a while. That said if you can get a pelican for the right price you probably won't loose much when you sell it on and it would get you on the water for now.
If you do decide to save a bit more then Venture canoes are good value. Plus whilst they are never going to be as light as an expensive royalex boat they are in my experience lighter than Old Town or Mad River plastic boats that I have handled. The Venture Ranger is a really good all rounder or if you have aspirations to do more bumpy stuff the Prospector (which is what I have) is the one to go for. Being better suited for bumpy stuff does make the prospector a bit compromised on flat water though so it depends what you want to do in it.
rancid badger
29-08-2011, 17:10
was looking at pelican canoes on ebay and they seem to be some great deals on there
what do you guys think of these as a family canoe
dont want somthing to small but dont want somthing to heavy
or is it worth saving that bit more
The very best advice anyone can offer on this subject is: Don't buy anything till you've actually paddled a few canoes, particularly; don't buy a boat if you've never paddled it!
If you don't want something too heavy then you will have to look at Royalex or possibly even royalex lite. ALL polythene canoes are heavy and a pig to manhandle.
15 feet would probably be the minimum/ideal length for an all rounder.
If you want a really good, PROPER Canadian canoe, ideal for the family as well as solo paddling/tripping/camping, that you can use for a couple of years then sell on for pretty much what you paid for it, then buy a Nova Craft SP3 Prospector. They are about the same weight as the Ventures mentioned and considerably lighter than the pelicans but are of far superior quality and paddle superbly.
As far as polythene canoes are concerned; pelican, clearwater, old town, mad river, gatz etc etc are all inferior to the Nova Craft SP3.
I learned this by hard experience, though luckily I didn't buy a pelican, clearwater, venture or mad river, just paddled them and found the truth for myself that way.
the pelicans are frankly shocking, for so many reasons. :(
Paddle a few boats, then paddle an SP3 and see which you prefer.
It may be that you don't like the way it handles,as it is a beautifully responsive boat, however; once you have gained some experience,you may well realise that in fact, the way the SP3 handles is the reason they are so good.
In all honesty, the NC SP3 is by far the best, all round polythene canoe you can buy, unfortunately they are also heavy, though certainly not really expensive and as already mentioned, you will lose very little if you decide to sell it on.
Try that with a pelican, clearwater,venture or gatz and you'll lose a lot of money.
your best bet would be to log n to SOTP, though they appear to be offline at the moment.
My first boat: Old Discovery 158-terrible,15 ft 8" and 38kg that's 80lbs or so, though seemed ideal when I bought it;
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P4200064copy1derwent.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/IMGP0321.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/IMGP0170copyspecial.jpg
but it was like paddling a bathtub, compared to other boats!
so I bought an Old Town Pack, a 12 ft 15kg boat, superb for short trips, very light and easy to handle and a fair companion to the Disocvery.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P4130071copy-pack2nd.jpg
okay but far too small and because of its short length, very slow and tedious to cover decent miles in it.
So then I ditched the disco and wanted a royalex boat for easy(er) carrying, unfortunately my boat fund was halved when our cooker died so I bought an SP3-unpaddled!- turned out to be the best boat I've owned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTx9Yjh4fTg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P6190024copyresized.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P6190016copyresized.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P3260045copyresizedaffsuit.jpg
Sadly, I had to admit that it was just too heavy to manage off the water, on my own, so I sold it and the Pack and bought a Nova Craft Prospector 15 in royalex lite, a £1400 ( list price) boat, as opposed to £700 or so for the SP3 but only 26kgs as opposed to 38kg!
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P6030162.jpg
This was a reasonable boat but nothing like as good as the SP3, the only real advantage was the weight, admittedly that's a massive advantage but not, in my opinion, worth the trade off in durability/toughness ( any polythene boat is tough and durable, whereas royalex and similar materials are horribly susceptible to cosmentic damage)
The 15 was so good, I sold it and bought myself a sit on top,:cool:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/the%20floating%20traffic%20con e/P8240268-1.jpg
reasoning that I could do everything with a sit on top, that I intended doing with the NC 15 ( I might have progressed to full on white water/real bumpy stuff with the SP3 but not the too fragile royalex lite 15) as well as get in some coastal paddling and sea fishing:rolleyes:
don't jump, take your time.
hope this helps
Steve
You've really ditched the canoe for a SOT Steve?
What about the trips mate?
John Fenna
29-08-2011, 19:27
Burn the heretic!:campfire:
I cannot belive you have dropped the canoes for a....SOT!:eek:
Canoes are the gods own watercraft, unequalld by ANYTHING!:cool:
SOTs are poor load carriers, give you a wet bum and are the nearest thing to those ...kayak things:yuck: (which all real paddlers detest) as you can get!
For many years my solo boat was an Old Town Scout, then a 158 then a Pyrana Prospector (Royalex) for white water and a Birch Creek 16 (glass) for less damaging waters and the sea ...and that is the combo that will see me out I think...
I WAS a ...Kayak instructor, I am a canoe coach and I have paddled SOTs... CANOES RULE!
and when my tennis elbow and bad back clear up I will again be hitting the water big time :D:canoe:
No craft that gets you on the water is realy bad ...but canoes are the best :)
If dry land weight and ease of movement are a problem - paddle more and get fitter/stronger :D
mrcharly
30-08-2011, 10:04
Odd that you put down the Mad river boats.
I've got a Mad River, 17' 6" of plastic. had it for 17 years. It's had very heavy use, no care whatsoever. Yes it is a bit heavy - but it is a 38" beam boat that can carry one adult and 12 small children, or 3 adults with luggage - and I can still pick it up by myself.
Handles pretty well - good tracking and not too bad in running water.
I to have been loking at canoe's, and can't decide what to get. The apache fibreglass boats appeal to me, and to that end i have found a small maker not far from where i live, who trades as snake river canoes, and i'm hoping to have a look at a 15" he is currently making.
Rob
I fully agree with Steve's try as many canoes as possible before parting with cash. Materials wise, I don't think it's as clear cut as he makes out. Royalex is a material trademarked by Uniroyal, all the Royalex canoes are made from slightly different Royalex like materials and have slightly different names to avoid copyright infringments. Hence Oldtowner Royalex and Nova Crafts Royalex Lite. Each has different properties with some being more resilient than others. I very much doubt the SP3 is any more resilient than my Old Town Penobscot other than your boat being nearly twenty years younger Steve. I've seen an Old Town Royalex boat with nothing but a couple of creases from being folded in half while pinned on a bridge support. Once released it regained its proper shape. New gunwales were needed but the hull was fine. Folks need to realise it's a canoe, it's going to get scratches, get over it. I only started to worry when I couldn't remember where I got some of the more impressive ones.
I'm with John over the weight thing too, unless you have a permanent injury and my sympathy, just get out there and paddle, get fit and learn the correct technique to lift a canoe to your shoulders.
Al
I would check on Song of the Paddle and get yourself a second hand Royalex boat for £700-800-ish or less if you are lucky. Already scratched so you don't have to worry about it and probably already outfitted as well so that saves another £100. I have two Royalex boats - one six years old and one twenty years old - both heavily scratched underneath and a few small dents but each one is a memory and it is actually really hard to do them serious damage. Everyone I know (small sample) who has bought an SP3-type boat has ended up lusting after a lighter boat such as a Royalex. 60 lbs is fine to chuck around on your own. 80 is just too heavy for most people.
By the way the 20 year old boat cost £1,100 back then - so today they are cheap in comparison, despite the exchange rate!
Don't rule out nice fibreglass boats such as an Apache or the legendary Birch Creek (if you can find one) if you will be doing mainly lakes. Cheaper, fabulous lines if you get the right boat, sweeter to paddle and much faster. A Royalex or plastic boat feels like a dodgem car in comparison. You could get one of these for £400 and they are pretty tough (went down the Spey in mine)
Grooveski
30-08-2011, 19:48
....both heavily scratched underneath and a few small dents but each one is a memory....
Funnily enough I moved the Pack the other day and ended up away in dreamland. Trouble is most of the memories that spring to mind are of messing up in one way or another.
My favorite is the big scar up the right hand side. There was no way the poor wee thing was going to get down that drop on the Orchy without taking a beating but it looked such a giggle that I just couldn't resist. :rolleyes:
marcusleftthesite
30-08-2011, 21:09
Keep an eye out for the 'new' Apache 15,I have it on good authority that Stu is playing with the mould ;)
rancid badger
30-08-2011, 21:55
Stay calm gents;)
You don't seriously think I'd just walk away from all that very hard earned skill and experience:rolleyes:
See, I've got this to fall back on:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P6030129.jpg
16ft Mega outlander in GRP still too heavy to lug about but wait till I get my hands on a carbon kevlar one!:red:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P6030132.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P5140129copyresizedr.jpg
It belongs to my brother, so any trips we might make would involve loading up the Outlander with most of the kit and swapping boats from time to time.
cheers
Steve
John Fenna
30-08-2011, 22:03
OK - douse that heretic burning fire - he may have a wet bum but he still retains some brains :D
Stay calm gents;)
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x125/stalch/sotp/P6030129.jpg
Swine :)
Some lovely lines on that boat Steve, you saving up for kevlar then ?
fredster
30-08-2011, 23:08
...dont want somthing to small but dont want somthing to heavy...
well thats the SP3 out the window then! I'm a fairly strapping sort of guy, and I have a plastic canoe same weight as all the other plastic canoes out there (ie HEAVY!) and I tell you this much: don't believe it when people tell you its actually not too difficult to get a 38kg boat on to your shoulders. It IS difficult and it WILL discourage you from nipping down your local river for a quick paddle on the spur of the moment.
Save the extra pennies and get a royalex boat. 2nd hand is better as royalex toughens up over the years. The Outward Bound organisation sell off their entire fleet of royalex Wenonah Auroras once a year. Great family boat and 29kgs. Very capable boats - thats why outward bound use them.
marcusleftthesite
31-08-2011, 07:56
It's not too difficult to get a 38 kg canoe onto your shoulders ;) :p
fredster
31-08-2011, 08:59
oof! But then Marcus2 does own and run a mobile crane company!
marcusleftthesite
31-08-2011, 09:20
oof! But then Marcus2 does own and run a mobile crane company!
:D :D
Watching the boys crane some yachts out yesterday,lot of moneys worth playing with !!
rancid badger
31-08-2011, 15:12
OK - douse that heretic burning fire - he may have a wet bum but he still retains some brains :D
Why, thank you John;)
Rich; I know:p itis a lovely boat! I'm not so sure on the colour but then it kind of grows on you.
Carbon Kevlar it shall have to be but the fact that the set up is way down in Cornwall will mean I'll be waiting a while for a second hand one, as there's no way I'm going to faff about ordering one.
Apparently the character that owns the company has a tendency to lose a bit of interest once he's got your money and the delivery dates get further and further away!
A great pity as they really are fantastic boats, a good couple of steps up from an Apache ( though the apache is a good hull)
anyway, we'll see:)
best wishes
Steve
Did you see that one Gill sold last week, I was so tempted but "she" said no
marcusleftthesite
31-08-2011, 16:37
Apparently the character that owns the company has a tendency to lose a bit of interest once he's got your money and the delivery dates get further and further away!
I think it's because he puts the surf kayaks first.If you were local and kept 'dropping in' I'm sure it would be ready a lot quicker ;)
The Mega is, I think, the old Alan Bridges Birch Creek mould - superb fast hull with excellent secondary stability. A good 1-2mph faster than most Royalex tubs.
fredster
01-09-2011, 22:26
...as is an Apache 16'. Lot to be said for composite hulls, mostly (with the exception of kevlar) cheaper than royalex, stiffer, easier to repair and more often than not faster more efficient hull shape.
I love my Birch Creek. Had it since 1993. Still going strong and the best boat I have ever paddled.
John Fenna
02-09-2011, 07:54
Living only 5 mins from where Alan used to make the Birch Creek canoes and counting on him as a bit of a pal I have had the oportunity to try out (and own!) several of the Birch Creek range over the years - Alan actually helped me build my Malamut - and there aint a bad one in the lot!
The best is the Birch CreeK 16 - I was given one to review for Canoeist magazine (only loaned it for the weekend :( ) and on the sat night I phoned Alan with my order. After putting the phone down I thought "Now how in gods name to I pay for that?"... I ended up having to sell the Birch Creek I owned at the time to raise the dosh!
It was worth it though!
After I smashed the bow to ruination on a rock out at sea (another tale! it involves the wake of the Irish Ferry, otters and rocks) Alan was good enough -though already not a well man - to help me rebuild the boat.
The canoe is not as pretty as it was but still paddles like a dream :)
I orderd a new canoe yesterday, i'm going for a snake river canoe thats 15". The guy who makes them, says it will take about 2 weeks.
Rob