View Full Version : Bit of a rant...
This weekend I and my wife are duty wardens at our local Scout Camp.
We have over 300 young people on site, most of whom are fantastic...but I feel very peeved by the actions of one particular group of ATC cadets.
Below is an extract from my report which I will be submitting on Monday:
Duty Warden report
Air Training Corps - Saturday 02/07/11
After walking around the site it became clear that the Air Training Corps had left site without informing any of the site staff.
Upon inspection of the area used I found the following:
Two chairs from the hut left out on the field.
Cleaning materials (mop, bucket, brush and shovel) thrown on the floor outside the hut.
An area of burnt grass outside the hut.
Numerous items of litter, consisting of sweet wrappers and empty plastic drink bottles, left around the area used.
Poles from the dining shelter left outside. These poles were found to be damaged and one end clogged with soil and fresh grass. The other end was deformed and bent over, looking like another pole had been used to hammer it into the ground.
The hut to be in an insecure state, with the door unlocked and the key left inside.
Upon entering the hut, I found:
The gas hob was still lit and on the high flame setting.
The floor had not been swept or mopped.
Washing up had been left on the draining rack.
In addition, by leaving in such a way, no fees other than the deposit have been paid, leaving an outstanding balance of £59 (plus any additional cost for repair of damaged items).
By the actions of this group, site (volunteer) staff now have to:
Litter sweep the area
Put away washing up
Repair the patch of damaged grass
Replace poles on a dining shelter
Chase monies owed
Rant over...for now!
Simon
JonathanD
02-07-2011, 22:37
The swines. Kids though. Absent minded oafs. Should have more dicipline being ATC. They'll get sorted good and proper from your letter to their CO.
The swines. Kids though. Absent minded oafs. Should have more dicipline being ATC. They'll get sorted good and proper from your letter to their CO.
But they had 5 staff with them...:banghead::banghead:
Mesquite
02-07-2011, 22:41
But they had 5 staff with them...:banghead::banghead:
That's even worse...
JonathanD
02-07-2011, 23:16
But they had 5 staff with them...:banghead::banghead:
That's even worse...
The swines. Incompetant oafs being led by incompetant oafs. Nothing worse. Put your letter together in BOLD and send it in triplicate to all the high bods you can find responsible for these donkeys. You expect this behaviour from delinquent kids, but not from military cadets and their staff.
please keep us informed to what reply you get as i was a cadet in my youth and its a shame to see that discipline has got that bad regards dave
Ogri the trog
03-07-2011, 08:21
This reads like a punch in the teeth! Being involved with the Air Training Corps both past and present makes it doubly hurtful. I hope you have the means to contact the squadron in question and seek an explanation for this behaviour. I feel compelled to ask if these actions be unquestionably attributed to that single group and no one else?
When we take our cadets camping, all the staff get somewhat Victorian when leaving any campsite, not one speck of litter gets left behind and areas where tents have been get swept to recover any crushed grass.
It is probably best that no-one gets to learn which unit it was but I hope they get to learn from this mistake.
Ogri the trog
Ogri, believe me this was the sole responsibility of the ATC. The rest of the camp has some 270(ish) campers on and is pristine...no litter anywhere. Yet in the exact footprint of the ATC camp is full of litter.
I spent over 10 years as an ACF instructor, so am equally displeased with this clear lack of discipline.
Simon
That's outrageous!
Take their brylcreem off them for starters.
Oh, and teach them to march properly as well, their drill is almost as bad as the Navy's... :D
Liam
p.s.
Any RAF/Slipper Service bods reading this;
Sorry can't resist a bit of inter service rivalry, no need to post vids of the Colour Squadron in revenge.
p.p.s.
That is actually quite bad for the ATC. I was in 2299 Squadron many moons ago and we'd have been hoofed for leaving an area in a state.
bilmo-p5
03-07-2011, 19:54
I think a fod plod tutorial will be in order.
Bushwhacker
03-07-2011, 20:19
Are you sure they weren't space cadets?
who is at fault the kids or the so called adults
As the visiting cadets did abuse your camp is it worth producing a visiting units camp arrival form that if need be sorts of these problems and to be honest I think its bad form of you talking about this on a open foram thats puts any cadets in a bad light Im sure that the powers that be within the ATC will sort this out .
Twodogs
As the visiting cadets did abuse your camp is it worth producing a visiting units camp arrival form that if need be sorts of these problems and to be honest I think its bad form of you talking about this on a open foram thats puts any cadets in a bad light Im sure that the powers that be within the ATC will sort this out .
Twodogs
Sorry you feel it's bad form, but I didn't I.D. the unit involved or the persons in charge, just the "parent" organisation.
We do have a "welcome pack" which spells out our expectations and rules to all campers, be they Scouts, Guides, Schools or other groups. This group chose to ignore those rules...
This wasn't just bad form but wanton destruction of our equipment...equipment which they weren't even using, just destroyed for the sake of it.
I and many others have worked hard to turn this campsite around from making a loss finanacially to a successful, well run venue. I mught add, a venue that has been used for one of our NW meets, which is one reason why I shared it - as I thought it may interest those that have been there.
Simon
Mojoracinguk
04-07-2011, 10:21
I think its bad form of you talking about this on a open foram thats puts any cadets in a bad light
I feel the opposite....Rant away Simon....as a cadet/cub scout/Police officer/any member of any organisation...You represent the whole organisation when in public, and as such you will bring your organisation into disrepute if you misbehave. As in the public eye you are one and the same as your colleagues and folk will talk….That is why a breech of your organisations code or any code to which you are bound (site rules for example) should be met with heavy disciplinary measures BECAUSE you represent.
So I’m glad Simon you are bringing it to the fore.
roger-uk
04-07-2011, 13:05
It is the Leaders who are 100% to blame. No site should be left without making sure its better than we you came, all fees are paid and also its inspected according to site rules.
On ething I would say is if yu are going to name and shame in a public forum then please name the squadron otherwise you are tarring all ATC units with the same brush. Priot to scouting I was an Air Cadet and Civilian Radio intructor and am ashamed that this could hav ehappened. There is no excuse and aformal complaint should be made to Wing HQ. If you hav eany problems finding that out then PM the unit and scout site and I'll give you the information.
All this got me remembering my cubs and scout days (never had ATC near where we were). I've been remembering any of our days or weekends away from HQ. All I remember are the few camps, parade days such as the wake week parade and the monthly march to service and the annual meeting of our area in Ormskirk for the march to the church and the service. Every time we went away into the public we got the riot act. WE got told we were representing ourselves, our troop, the area and the whole movement. When camping we all got tasks and it was made clear the site had to be the same or better than when we arrived. For example on some camps there were tents and cabins to stay in. Catering was done in the cabin kitchens. Before we left ALL pots, pans, plates, bowls, cups, glasses and cutlery got washed again whether used or not. Basically they were thorough (and a pain in the neck) the leaders.
What I am saying is confused I think because we had the right way to behave drummed into us. Kind of we had to be responsible for ourselves but at the same time the leaders had overall responsibility. If the kids can't be responsible then there is the fallback of leaders to do that. In this case both failed in their duty so IMHO it is right to bring it up to the hierarchy, whatever that is. AS for posting on here? Well as you said this site is used by people from here and you at least have a hand in running it so fair enough I say. Naming the group would be too far but they must be named to the superiors of the leaders of this group. The leaders failed where they shouldn't have.
I particularly don't like the fact the fees haven't been paid. That is wrong. It got me wondering because before we went anywhere the full amount was paid up. The deposit by a certain date and the balance before leaving. IF the balance wasn't paid where is it? What I mean a well run group should have had the balance paid to the group so who has it? I don't mean to cast any aspersions and I am not but the way the group is run doesn't sound that good so perhaps they didn't find you when leaving so will be sorting payment out after they got back. Perhaps a cheque is winging its way to you. If not there is something wrong.
Thanks for bringing it up as I have enjoyed remembering my cubs and scout days. Great Wood was cool as a young cub. Learnt a good lesson there...don't pick up a wasps nest and if you do then run very fast!! :D
Simon , Simon you know as well as I do that no matter how many staff they had with them , CrabAir dont work weekends :)
Simon , Simon you know as well as I do that no matter how many staff they had with them , CrabAir dont work weekends :)
Thanks for that...now I have to clean coffee from my monitor:lmao:
Simon
Live and learn. So flyers re lazy, workshy lot who's uniform colour was originally the same colour as the navy treatment for crabs. Didn't know that being civillian. Enjoying the banter. All we need now is a few flyers with a good comeback. Inter-service banter, don't you just love it!! AS an outsider listening in of course.
Manacles
04-07-2011, 16:05
It is the Leaders who are 100% to blame. No site should be left without making sure its better than we you came, all fees are paid and also its inspected according to site rules.
On ething I would say is if yu are going to name and shame in a public forum then please name the squadron otherwise you are tarring all ATC units with the same brush. Priot to scouting I was an Air Cadet and Civilian Radio intructor and am ashamed that this could hav ehappened. There is no excuse and aformal complaint should be made to Wing HQ. If you hav eany problems finding that out then PM the unit and scout site and I'll give you the information.
I am with Roger on this - on all points. Our Scout Leaders always check that everything is left as it was found (and on occasions better) and the "clearing up" element is intrinsic to the camp. I am sure it can be resolved with a simple letter.
Damascus
04-07-2011, 17:36
I bet you must feel peeved, I would. I spent some time with the ATC (As Staff) and as a general rule they are not like that I would say in there defence the complete opposite and a shame really as they have tarnished what is generally a good reputation. The leaders are and should be held to account in this matter which I would find totally unacceptable and personal pride would not have let me and I am sure many of us, to leave it in such a terrible state I wish you luck and success in this matter.
Simon , Simon you know as well as I do that no matter how many staff they had with them , CrabAir dont work weekends :)
Hahahahaha and are finished well before 1630 on Fridays.
Liam
Its the cadets fault up to a point for making the mess, but I agree the officers should have checked before they left so their fault as well. Can ATC not use army training areas for camps or do only proper cadets do that? :P
A real shame but I guess it goes to show, army CCF are the best....