View Full Version : superglue
Dreadhead
25-06-2011, 12:32
iv read and heard often it can be used to seal wounds back up etc and after a little research found that certain types of it are better than others for a specific medicinal/first aid purpose. but trying to find it is a pain!
Does anybody know what/where to buy superglue spcifically for fixing wounds? or am i really just better off with gauze & tape etc (no bloody sutures!)
Thanks
Landy_Dom
25-06-2011, 12:36
I use the loctite stuff for sealing my own minor cuts. I find the gel stuff slightly better than the liquid stuff. It is tempting to pick at it but resist. It only takes about 15 seconds to go off, so very quick and effective. Added bonus is that it renders the wound immobile. since cuts only hurt when they move, as soon as the cut is glued, it stops hurting too - result!
or am i really just better off with gauze & tape etc (no bloody sutures!)
Stick with the gauze and tape. I dont think there is need to use superglue for first aid, as far as i am away its also toxic. If you have a cut putting pressure on it will stop it bleeding, even if its a serious cut then pressure and get to professionals to deal with it, putting superglue on the cut will mean they have to deal with that to.
IMO people who are not trained to use superglue shouldn't have it available to them. I'm talking the medical stuff here; not the stuff that's used around the house - as some people use that aswell for glueing wounds ... AFAIK the chemical components differ, and could cause more harm than do good to you.
A friend of mine who is a doc told me once after I asked him about glueing wounds, that he encountered someone with a serious cut in his leg - while he did his interns on the ER department of a big hospital. The guys leg had some weird colors and it did hurt like hell. He superglued the wound, but didn't do it properly (and with the non-medical stuff). They had to cut him open, put in drains and stuff like that (BIG infection), a cocktail of meds and was put in a hospital bed for the next week or so.
If you have a big wound: cover it and dress it accordingly. Get to see a doc! better safe than sorry!
If you have a small wound / minor cut: plasters.
Don't do it, you can get things like a thermal reaction which damages the skin and slows healing plus you are sealing crap in a wound....don't use it. Direct pressure will do the job, so just keep things simple please, nicely please.
The medical glue does a decent enough job but you wont be able to get it over the counter
I'd use steri strips but aside from that I agree with rik
Dreadhead
25-06-2011, 15:06
points taken, steri strips on their way ;)
If the wound is deep and you can get to A&E in a few hours don't even bother with steri-strips. You're more likely to trap dirt and crap in the wound. Give it a good irrigation with drinking water, cover with a clean dressing and as long as you can travel and aren't leaking copious amounts of claret you're good to go.
In the UK you're normally close enough to some form of medical help that all you really need are plasters for the small cuts and a large-ish wound dressing for the gaping or big bleed wounds. Anything else isn't really worth carrying.
The most important thing is training. I don't know if you have any training but its worth investing in some.
It is possible to purchase the medical glue but it is v expensive. Normal superglue is not sterile and, as explained above, improper usage on a wound which is infected just seals the infection in and leads to abcesses or, at worst, systemic infections.
I had a shallow cut in my head glued last year after being knocked off my bike. Whilst it healed well, the nurse blobbed it everywhere and it was stuck in my hair for days and was very difficult to remove.
As for toxicity, it sets so quickly and is used in such small amounts (unless you get my nurse) that it can be disregarded in this case.
Dreadhead
26-06-2011, 15:00
ah very good advice especially about the hair, dont think id fancy having a dread glued over a wound :P
Iv opted tae leave superglue out as i would be more confident with gauze & tape etc so thanks all for the heads up!
If you are going to use glue then this is the stuff you need cyanoacrylate. I have used in the past a wound stapler and optimed patches.
Paradiddle
27-06-2011, 16:19
Heard the original purpose of superglue was actually to close wounds quickly during the Vietnam war. They only realised that it was good for other things after.
Apparently it saved quite a lot of people because it seals the wound quickly and reduces the chance of blood loss. However it left permanent ugly scars since the cyanocrynolate prevents the wound from healing fully.
Heard the original purpose of superglue was actually to close wounds quickly during the Vietnam war. They only realised that it was good for other things after.
Apparently it saved quite a lot of people because it seals the wound quickly and reduces the chance of blood loss. However it left permanent ugly scars since the cyanocrynolate prevents the wound from healing fully.
I think (some one will correct me if i am wrong) but it was created by accident before the Vietnam War but it was used in Vietnam War to seal wounds. but that doesnt mean its best practice.
Heard the original purpose of superglue was actually to close wounds quickly during the Vietnam war. They only realised that it was good for other things after.
Apparently it saved quite a lot of people because it seals the wound quickly and reduces the chance of blood loss. However it left permanent ugly scars since the cyanocrynolate prevents the wound from healing fully.
not true
e
it was discovered in WW2 it didn't work for the purpose they where researching which was to make a gun site reticule so was shelved as a novelty
the inventor only dies a couple of months ago
ATB
Duncna
A rellative's daughter got cut up bad on holiday somewhere in Europe when young (a total accident not some violent knife fight) and she was very fortunate to get treated by a really talented doctor out there who used superglue on her. Apparently he chose superglue because it minimised the scarring which as you'd expect is very important when a young lass gets cut on the face as badly as she did. AFAIK with the various creams she got and time the scars are only noticeable IF you know about them to look for them. All I can say is she was very lucky on many accounts of which the talented doctor who glued her up is but one of them. Her plastic surgeon back home said it was an exceptional piece of work for an A&E doctor and he left it alone as it was as good as he could have done with all his extra training and experience.
Anyway, my point is superglue is for experts IMHO not for any Tom, Dick or Harry to try just because they read of someone who did it on an outdoors or survival site. There is a saying K.I.S.S. which kind of applies here I think. If compression and normal dressings are good enough for all the years that they have then why bother changing. It is simple, easy to apply and quite often can be used even without the proper stuff. If you are bleeding from a really bad wound then you can use anything that is clean if you have to and got nothing else. Although we all carry a FAK with a large ambulance dressing in it don't we?!! We do? That's sorted then.
Dreadhead
27-06-2011, 17:00
A rellative's daughter got cut up bad on holiday somewhere in Europe when young (a total accident not some violent knife fight) and she was very fortunate to get treated by a really talented doctor out there who used superglue on her. Apparently he chose superglue because it minimised the scarring which as you'd expect is very important when a young lass gets cut on the face as badly as she did. AFAIK with the various creams she got and time the scars are only noticeable IF you know about them to look for them. All I can say is she was very lucky on many accounts of which the talented doctor who glued her up is but one of them. Her plastic surgeon back home said it was an exceptional piece of work for an A&E doctor and he left it alone as it was as good as he could have done with all his extra training and experience.
Anyway, my point is superglue is for experts IMHO not for any Tom, Dick or Harry to try just because they read of someone who did it on an outdoors or survival site. There is a saying K.I.S.S. which kind of applies here I think. If compression and normal dressings are good enough for all the years that they have then why bother changing. It is simple, easy to apply and quite often can be used even without the proper stuff. If you are bleeding from a really bad wound then you can use anything that is clean if you have to and got nothing else. Although we all carry a FAK with a large ambulance dressing in it don't we?!! We do? That's sorted then.
spot on there
I had cause to require a dressing or two (actually about 4 I believe on one hand and the blood still showed through). Fortunately one guy in our group was a retired MRT member (life member as he'd done well over 15 years in it as a full member). He got his first aid kit out on the crag we were perched on and it consisted ofone reeally large icecream tub that was about 6" square and about 8" high and another one that was same size except about 4" high. The smaller one was his drugs and the other was the rest!!. Needless to say the pain died quickly but the blood came through the first dressing then the second then when MRT got there a third was put over the top. Looked like a boxing glove with 3 large ambulance dressings. The large square and thick pads with a bandage attached to tie it on is what I had 3 of. Then back at their base I got them all cut off as they were sodden. They put another on and somehow the bleeding died back and I was able to get the coach home. Got a lift to my parents place as they live near me and got them to give me a lift to the A&E nearer to me.
Anyway I was glad fo the MRT guy with his nice drugs and those large ambilance dressings. Meant I didin't get a long line winch into a budgie which was perfectly fine with me (scared of heights you see and the cliff face chimney we were on would have needed a very long line winch to get me off). You never know when you might need a good dressing so IMHO no matter what always have at least one LARGE ambulance dressing in your FAK. Most shop bought kits only have small dressings but IME you do need at least the one large dressing. A larger dressing can be used on a small wound but a small dressing can't be used on a big wound.
That accident was interesting as I got to see what the NHS uses for wound dressings. They have all sorts of dressings now. There was one that looked and felt like that rubbery matting aldi and lidl sell to cut up and put on your dashboard in the car to stop stuff sliding around. You know the rubbery grid stuff. It supposedly doesn't stick to wounds. Then there were a few other types of stuff. The local doctor;s surgery had something else too. It is amazing what the NHS can get their hands on for wound dressing but I have yet to find anywhere selling them to the general public.
Dreadhead
27-06-2011, 17:44
iv been recovering for an operation for several months now with an open wound which requires attendantance of a nurse daily and im often given a nice big bag of medical supplies for district nurses to use and always end up with spares :D so there is always a silver lining! gloves, saline pods, plenty of tape and the odd wound dressing pads all for free :) these are all going into the FAK with some additions such as friars balsam and israeli ffd and some steri strips. fairly competent with that as a basic kit having now discovered that superglue is a waste of time without training etc
Ex-member EagleOwl
27-06-2011, 18:01
iv been recovering for an operation for several months now with an open wound which requires attendantance of a nurse daily and im often given a nice big bag of medical supplies for district nurses to use and always end up with spares :D so there is always a silver lining! gloves, saline pods, plenty of tape and the odd wound dressing pads all for free :) these are all going into the FAK with some additions such as friars balsam and israeli ffd and some steri strips. fairly competent with that as a basic kit having now discovered that superglue is a waste of time without training etc
Don't get into fights you can't win, that way noone will tear you a new a""hole lol.
This is my take on it:
Super Glue for Wound Closure (http://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/superglue)
I'm not going to say 'Never use it" but nor am I going to advocate it. For small, minor nicks on yourself it is perfectly appropriate but for anything else it isn't all that great.
Read all the way down to see the contraindication (when you wouldn't use it). The list is quite lengthy and when you take them out, what wounds are left? Not many.
Steri-strips as has been said before and Friars Balsam (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55275&p=708527&highlight=#post708527) (Tincture of Benzoin) to help it stick. Better still, a roll of Transpore tape (http://www.spservices.co.uk/item/Brand_TransporeHAllegyTape250c mx91m_22_0_1896_0.html); a plastic, perforated tape a bit like Micropore but which can be torn into very thin strips to make your own 'steri-strips as thick/thin or long/short as you like. Why take two things in your kit when one will do http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.png
knifefan
30-06-2011, 13:01
I wouldn't use it on any wound that would require stitching, but I have used it on "dry cracks" on my feet - these can be quite sore and uncomfortable, but by glueing them it stops the movement and stops the pain - been a godsend on some of my longer hikes!!!! :D
Spikey DaPikey
30-06-2011, 13:02
I've glued minor cuts on myself, but a large one would be washed, patched and off to proper help...
I've glued minor cuts on myself, but a large one would be washed, patched and off to proper help...
I've glued myself to multiple casualties and recommend proper triage and use of a real doctor , seeing as my first aid kit consists of a field dressing (for personal use) and a folding shovel (to dispose of any casualties I come across) this advice should really be ignored ;)
cheers for the sprouts Spikey !
Spikey DaPikey
30-06-2011, 22:00
No worries mate, i dont have to sleep near ya :p
This is my take on it:
Super Glue for Wound Closure (http://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/superglue)
Just wanted to thank you for that article Genty, I found it very interesting and informative. Also great tip about transpore tape, I won't miss having to hand over what seems like an awful lot of money for simple steri strips.
Ive never used superglue on a cut, but I keep a bottle of Germoline New Skin in my FAK along with a bottle of wound wash.
This stuff burns like hell for 20 seconds when you put it on a cut, but after that it stops hurting.
I have used it on:-
Paper cuts, grazes, torn quicks, by the nail beds, heel blisters, heat blisters, briar cuts...
I always wash cuts first, then coat it and try not to scream.
Up side is the cuts are imobilised and heal extremely fast and stop nagging at you as soon as it dries - 20 secs or so..
Never had an infection after using it. Touching wood, lol.
Only once have I had a problem with it. My biggest passed me a pair of secoteurs, blades first, and they penetrated through the skin between my thmb and forefinger. I could see the muscles moving in the hole. I washed it out and glued it back together. It healed in days, but the lump of new skin took a few months to grow out.
I've been using superglue for 10 years.
For cracked heels, after a good rasping.
For small cuts on very mobile areas that keep opening up.
On my cat's fight wounds.
It's manna from heaven for things like that!
Dreadhead
02-07-2011, 13:17
great info there genty. whilst been put off using glue for wounds cracked feet does sound like superglue would be a real lifesaver good to know :)
I wouldn't use it on any wound that would require stitching, but I have used it on "dry cracks" on my feet - these can be quite sore and uncomfortable, but by glueing them it stops the movement and stops the pain - been a godsend on some of my longer hikes!!!! :D
Do you know what is causing the 'dry cracks' on your feet?
21st century pict
06-07-2011, 17:09
I tried the superglue trick once on my finger it got infected and two days later i had to burst it open to let the **** out The 5 minuets looking at it first was by far the worst bit .
Don't know what causes cracked heels but they're advertising stuff for it on TV right now. Seems some kind of moisturising stuff fills the cracks in a bit.
I tried the superglue trick once on my finger it got infected and two days later i had to burst it open to let the **** out The 5 minuets looking at it first was by far the worst bit .
I would personally say that was you not cleaning the wound properly as opposed to the superglue being at fault. Just my ignorant opinion though.. :p
Lumber Jack
14-07-2011, 22:14
You are looking for "OCA" (Octyl cyanoacrylate) That's the glue used in medical adhesives. However, Regular "super glue"(e-2-cyanoacrylate) is 100% fine for cuts, abrasions, keens ect. It wont cause infections in the wound and if done properly, will do a better job than sutures.
You hear a lot of horror stories about wounds becoming infected after using super glue or another brand of it. It's nothing to do with the cyno', it's simple first aid being overlooked unfortunately. The wound must be cleaned with a sterile substance such as saline ect. Once that has done and you're sure it's clean, drop some cyno' on and you'll be fine. It won't even sting when you apply it.;)
Lumber Jack.
Lumber Jack
14-07-2011, 22:23
Ps just to add.
Superglue Is sterile. Even the stuff you buy from your local DIY store to stick the broken picture frame together. It contains toluene, you know, the stuff >ejuts< get high off. Bacteria can't grow nor reproduce in it.
If you want a glue for wounds. But you are unsure about the useage of superglue (it does have a time and a place). Use something called "Dermabond."
LJ
Good luck with a) obtaining the prescription and b) affording Dermabond:
Dermabond on Google Shopping by way of an example (http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Dermabond#q=Dermabond&hl=en&sa=X&tbs=p_ord:p&tbm=shop&prmd=ivns&ei=YF8fTqvrHpKt8QPdk5jPAw&ved=0CAoQuw0oAQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=b2852677c56769b9&biw=1024&bih=509)
I repeat:
Super Glue for Wound Closure (http://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/superglue)
Read all the way down to see the contraindication (when you wouldn't use it). The list is quite lengthy and when you take them out, what wounds are left? Not many.
After reading the thread I decided to purchase a couple of tubes not as cheap as regular super glue in fact £12 a tube, but I can see the benefits over sutures.
Lumber Jack
15-07-2011, 00:20
Good luck with a) obtaining the prescription and b) affording Dermabond:
Dermabond on Google Shopping by way of an example (http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Dermabond#q=Dermabond&hl=en&sa=X&tbs=p_ord:p&tbm=shop&prmd=ivns&ei=YF8fTqvrHpKt8QPdk5jPAw&ved=0CAoQuw0oAQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=b2852677c56769b9&biw=1024&bih=509)
I repeat:
That's came down in price, Last time I had some it cost me £32 and so many pence. The point is. You can use super glue if you want. It won't cause you any harm and is a sterile substance.:rolleyes:
I've used it for 20 + years on everything from keens to knife cuts. And the wounds have all healed perfectly well. I do believe super glue contains a lot of the compounds found in cigarette smoke or tobacco too:)
"what wounds are left? Not many."
Wounds that aren't on the face, over a flex point, which have been sanitized and the blood flow has been stemmed...That's a huge amount of injuries...:rolleyes:
LJ.
Lumber Jack
15-07-2011, 00:36
PS just to add experience.
7 years as a patrol medic, reaching Class 1 CMT Sgt. BATLS (Battlefield Advanced Trauma Life Support). We did indeed use run of the mill "super glue" as well. I'm sure the head shed wouldn't have liked it. But the chief medical officers in the field didn't give a badgers bum.
I don't find much use for any of the above as a game keeper. But it's there if ever I need it.:)
LJ.
MrJamieM
16-07-2011, 15:38
I had a pretty bad cut out in the woods a couple of months ago (my first and last) making the shelter in the photo. I was quite lucky to have just enough supply's with me.
After i had washed the cut with water and squeezed fluid from iodine and alcohol swabs into it i covered it with a cotton pad and wrapped it with zinc oxide tape to push the two sides of the cut together seeing as it was gaping a little.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LvzHVgtFPWs/Th7ZIv0bXkI/AAAAAAAAAC4/aCwdjTdVGLU/s640/DSC00529.JPG
But when i took the dressing off when i got home the next day putting on the same dressing would have been just excessive so super glue would have been prefect to stop me from pulling the wound back open by accident.
"But when i took the dressing off when i got home the next day putting on the same dressing would have been just excessive so super glue would have been prefect to stop me from pulling the wound back open by accident."
If it was still bleeding badly the next day a trip to A&E would have been called for. Have you done a first aid course? Did you soak the dressing at home to stop opening the wound? Off the shelf superglue is not good for wounds, all the pros and cons have been gone through in the past here many times.
Your body, use what you like if you don't want to listen.
MrJamieM
17-07-2011, 15:08
No, i managed to stop the bleeding before i dressed it. I have basic first aid but nothing that good common sense wouldn't have told me.
What i was saying is when i took the dressing off the next day, super glue would have been perfect to stop the cut opening back up again and not having to put up with the hassle of having dressing on my thumb.
So would a couple of ster-strips?
Lumber Jack
17-07-2011, 17:07
Steri strips come off. That's the annoying thing. They each have their own pro's and cons. You've already said it's up to each individual to do whatever they like.:)
Personally I'll continue using super glue. Knowing it's not going to pose any risk to me whatsoever. :o
LJ
I've glued a few cuts together on patients with medical superglue and to be honest it is fiddly and messy. Also it usually has to be kept in a fridge and has a use by date on the medical stuff so unless you fancy keeping your medi-kit in a cool box I’d stick with steri-strips and an iodine dressing until you can get it seen to professionally.
globalmedic
03-08-2011, 12:07
Just my tuppence worth,
I wouldn't say the use of superglue is for experts. It's more important to be able to assess the wound and decide if it's appropriate. It's a tool that in the wrong hands could cause problems.
-Any closure of a potentially infected wound is not advised regardless of the method.
-As long as the two opposing edges are brought together and the glue is used over the top of the wound it shouldn't pose a great problem.
-It's great for clean incison wounds, especially on the head when getting anything else on there is problematic.
-I would use it on myself rather than everyone else, sadly we are living in an increasing litigious society.
I'm no expert but my friend who routinely works in minr injuries and does frequent trips with the TA (mainly medivac work) advocates the use of it.
Horses for courses
use superglue on unbroken skin to keep steristrips from coming off. Works for me.
kiltedpict
04-08-2011, 07:45
use superglue on unbroken skin to keep steristrips from coming off. Works for me.Oh, nice idea! Like that.ATB,KP
toilet digger
04-08-2011, 20:01
i wouldn't use superglue on the kids, but i use it all the time. usually on cuts and gouges on my hands where there is constant movement is involved and plasters don't stick (not as sticky as they used to be). having spent most of my adult life on the farm, building site or the woods, i can whittle down a FAK to;
bog roll
sparky tape
woven triangular bandage
and super glue
regards jamie
prescottr
29-08-2011, 02:20
I am not really sure about using superglue to seal wounds as they might form some sort of irritation which would them worsen the wound, which is not really an option.
I think that it would react differently across people as there are differences with allergens that trigger different things.
I am really doubtful with this one but if for some thing, it comes out approved by the health department, then it must be pretty effective.
The most important thing is training.
Know when to close a wound and when to leave it open with a wet to dry dressing. Using superglue should never be used inside a wound.
Go get some training! A Wilderness First Aid course or an 8 day Wilderness First Responder course. A course from your local Red Cross or St. John's is a great start but will not help you in the woods. You have to have wilderness medicine training.
Bushcraft is a dangerous sport. How many of you have had some pretty interesting injuries while out and about in the deep woods? How will you handle a spurting wound? When do you pop a blister and when do you keep it intact?
Know how to assess and treat most of the injuries and illnesses that you will find in the woods.
FlyingHaggis
02-09-2011, 08:59
while I have used both normal over the counter superglue and dermabond i a med centre I would not really take superglue as part of my own personal med kit but it is something i would carry in my Bergen , for wound closures i would use steristrip and if that does not work i would use a normal dressing mepore type then move on to a field dressing
Graveworm
06-09-2011, 00:00
The use of dermabond is in place of sutures, as others have pointed out regular super glue kills healthy cells and is prone to causing alergic reactions. It has advantages in some very limited circumstances where scarring is an issue or difficult locations but, like sutures, it's for when you have properly cleaned the wound and should be only carried out in an even more sterile environment as sutures are easier to reverse. It's not first aid it's medical care, so in the field it's weighing the risks of infection if proper medical care is not an option or other dangers mean you need to get back in the fight, for civilians in the UK I doubt it's ever indicated. It's not a substitute for plasters or for internal use. It's not much use in a big bleed either.
As an aside, If you keep getting cracked heels then prevention is probably better than having to keep curing. It can also be a symptom of diabetes, the chances are very remote if it's the only symptom, but it's an easy check so might be worth while.