View Full Version : cars, waste of money?
Ok not realy bushcraft related but i no alot of people opt for eco friendly options were they can.
Iv recently been realy keeping an eye on money more and one of the biggest wasts are cars. I run. a large van which is quite expensive to run but i need it for my company so it kind of earns its keep which is ok, we also need a car for the other half to use but only does about 6000 miles a year localy. Two years ago i brought a big mercedes for some stupid reason,id always wanted one it only does no more than 30 mpg costs 260 to tax insurance keeps going up more than 600 and worst of all its lost 13000 in two years due to running cost rocketing.
We just ordered a new corsa 1.3cdti it does upto 80 mpg tax is 20 per year and insurance is 220 i reckon not even including depreciation il be around 250 better off a month.
i use a mountain bike for nipping localy which also saves money. Its made me realise how much moneu iv wasted on a car i hardly drove. Aparently alot of people are doing the same there was a guy there part exing a rangerover sport for a corsa.
I no some of u will be thinking idiot but atleast im a honest idiot im sure most of us wast money in some way.
Anyway i was wondering if anyone has done similar with a car or anything else due to lack of work maybe or eco reasons or just realised wot a wast some things are.
Cheers
santaman2000
19-06-2011, 16:04
I WISH I got 30 mpg. My Ram (1/2 ton) gets 14 mpg average, 16.5 at best on highway trips (that's per US gallon so probably about 20% better if in Imperial gallons) Insurance here varies with location as much as with type of vehicle but being in a rural area helps as does being a truck (much cheaper than a sports car) For myself and my daughter with 2 vehicles it's about $1800/year; about 1/3 that if it were just me and the truck ($500/year)
Waste of money? No. Way of life? Yes. About 24,000 miles per year (a bit less now that I've retired but will probably go back up when I start traveling recreationally more) I've had 12 different autos over the last 40 years; all but 4 were cars. I cain't imagine life without a pick-up or off road vehicle now. I also hope to get an RV in the future and do more touring, but if I do I'll probably get a larger pick-up (3/4 ton) with a diesel engine.
If I lived in town? No, That ain't gonna happen; been there, done that. Even when I did live in town I couldn't have done weekly grocery shopping on public transport. Just not enough room on a bus seat for a week or two's groceries. Besides, that would involve someone else doing the driving:yikes:
Graham_S
19-06-2011, 16:04
I sold my Shogun when I got my job in Saudi.
It was costing me £750 a year sitting still, and I'm only in the UK for 9 weeks a year.
It wasn't worth it.
Out here, I need one though.
Can't do without one, there is no public transport, It's 25km to work, and the roads are far too dangerous for cycling.
Santaman how much is fuel in the us mate over its around £1.50 a litre which must be getting close to $3 a litre its an absolute ripoff and road tax is seperate
cheers ash
santaman2000
19-06-2011, 16:35
Fuel varies widely from state to state (and even county to county) Here in Northwest Florida it's about $3.86/US gallon (Some quick math tells me that's about $1.03/liter) That price is at the pump which means all applicable taxes have been added in already. In fact tax is the biggest reason it varies so much; each state has their own taxes added above any federal taxes.
On a recent trip to Texas I drove through Alabama and Mississippi to get there. All three states were cheaper that Florida. Texas was the lowest with $3.51/US gallon (about 94 cents/liter) Up North or in California it's much higher.
The above prices are for gasoline/petrol; diesel is higher.
santaman2000
19-06-2011, 16:45
Sorry vizsla. I just saw you were talking about road tax rather than fuel tax. Over here that also varies wildly from state to state. In fact the very way they access the tax varies. Some states access it dependent on vehicle age, some on vehicle weight and still others on vehicle value. Mine in Florida is only the cost of renewing my license plate or about $35/year unless I get a vanity plate (personalized numbers) or a specialty plate.
So roughly fuel in the us is a third of the price to here and a truck like yours would cost upto a thousand pounds ayear road tax on top of the fuel. Our country is a ripoff il av to move to the US. Mate
santaman2000
19-06-2011, 17:00
LOL. I recommend an extended visit before committing to a move. And if possible visit several states at that.
Look back to my original post and you'll see the statement I made "Way of life." Be sure you're willing to change your way of life before committing based solely on driving costs.
And if my calculations are correct fuel here is about 2/3 (not 1/3) of the UK costs. Taxes in most states are far far cheaper though. Florida is only 6% sales tax on retail goods and there is no such thing as VAT.
I sold my Shogun when I got my job in Saudi.
It was costing me £750 a year sitting still, and I'm only in the UK for 9 weeks a year.
It wasn't worth it.
Out here, I need one though.
Can't do without one, there is no public transport, It's 25km to work, and the roads are far too dangerous for cycling.
How much does it cost to run over there? It must be loads cheaper.
British Red
19-06-2011, 19:23
Here, we would be completely stranded without a car for every person. No buses for three miles. Clearly the types can vary - and not many drive luxurious Mercs.
Waste of money? Absolute necessity for rural dwellers
demographic
19-06-2011, 19:45
I have a van that I need for my work and a few motorbikes but can't say I ever want a car, they leave me pretty cold to be honest.
If I want to go for a hoon I like the bike, but for anything else the van does it for me.
I live urban these days and our family couldn't afford to run two cars any longer. Even just sitting in the car park going nowhere they cost money in tax, insurance and MOTs. The cost of fuel and repairs is huge and I came to the conclusion that I can't afford them any more so they are gone - we got rid of them both - a people carrier and a small Fiat. I worked out that in my current situation I'll just rent a vehicle when I need it because it works out cheaper than owning one. I can cycle and catch buses for most of what I need to do and I have friends with cars if I'm really stuck or I can catch a mini-cab. I'm no longer a taxi driver for the kids, they have to catch the bus or walk.
When I lived rurally it was a different situation altogether. There was no public transport at all, our family was totally dependent on having our own vehicles. Once when the car was broken down I tried hitch hiking from my hamlet to the nearest town (and I've hitched around the world) and nobody stopped. I ended up calling a cab.
3 years ago my wife swapped her ford mondeo for a ford fiesta , she got a new one for less than they were selling year old ones as they were just about to bring out the new shape fiesta and were wanting rid of all the old shape .she has only just done 10k in the 3 years so probably hasn't saved very much over that time .
Being a joiner i have a van but it gets used for everything from work to transporting kids and various boats and carrying all our camping gear for holidays .
It's an 11year old ex police riot van that has just had a shed load of money on it to get i through it's MOT. the running costs are the down side but we would be lost without it , in a couple of weeks we are heading of with the kids camping ( camping gear for 4 + 4 kayaks + a 1800kg rib ) Can't do that with a fiesta !
Craig................
bilmo-p5
19-06-2011, 20:17
Here, we would be completely stranded without a car for every person. No buses for three miles. Clearly the types can vary - and not many drive luxurious Mercs.
Waste of money? Absolute necessity for rural dwellers
Get the push-iron out, Red. No hills worth the name near you.
We lived in Odiham when we bought our first car together, a brand spanker's Jeep Wrangler 4.0l totally impractical, fuel hungry and expensive of insurance and servicing, but we could afford it, then we moved to Plymouth with two dogs in the back, had to drive down through snow and abandoned cars, while there we got a trailer for it, the mpg didn't change even fully loaded, and we could afford it, then we moved to Scotland, drove up just before the first snow in 2009, pulled three cars of there own drives at up to the main road, got my wife to hospital to have our twins in through the snow an ice. now we live in Aldershott, moved down in September last year, my mum said that we could probably sell the Jeep now, as if we have the back seat in for the kids wee can't fit the dogs in, or a lot of shopping or luggage for trips, the it snowed again, we left a key with the neighbour to walk and feed the dogs, put a couple of bags in the trailer with warm clothes and sleeping bags, put the kids in and drove down to my mums, towed her car the last four hundred meter to her house when we got there too, She went shopping but couldn't get there, then couldn't get all the way home so left it at the star of the close. we love our Jeep, would never sell it, it doesn't cost much to service(i do that) It doesn't cost much to insure(£250 a year) It does cot £210 to tax( but we budget for that) and it's greener than any new car on the road dust to dust, and I look cool in a pair of Aviators with the roof down in any weather, YEAH BABY!
British Red
19-06-2011, 20:38
Get the push-iron out, Red. No hills worth the name near you.
Which we do for the few miles to the local shop and back. No way that works for work though. Nor does public transport (cos there is none)
santaman2000
19-06-2011, 20:49
We lived in Odiham when we bought our first car together, a brand spanker's Jeep Wrangler 4.0l totally impractical, fuel hungry and expensive of insurance and servicing, but we could afford it, then we moved to Plymouth with two dogs in the back, had to drive down through snow and abandoned cars, while there we got a trailer for it, the mpg didn't change even fully loaded, and we could afford it, then we moved to Scotland, drove up just before the first snow in 2009, pulled three cars of there own drives at up to the main road, got my wife to hospital to have our twins in through the snow an ice. now we live in Aldershott, moved down in September last year, my mum said that we could probably sell the Jeep now, as if we have the back seat in for the kids wee can't fit the dogs in, or a lot of shopping or luggage for trips...
Amazing what will fit on a roof rack (and yeah, Mopar makes roof racks for a roofless jeep) or on a small trailer. I've even seen a small kennel type trailer with dogs onboard behind a motorcycle.
I working on a Congo type rack at the moment, just depends on weather it's cheaper to buy of the shelf either self import or through one of the garages over here that do a.lot with Jeeps, or have one fabricated, hahaha I wonder what the police would say about a dog trailer, though more importantly i know my two would not travel in it, the kids might though?
Iv always been into cars from defenders to 350bhp gas gusler sports cars but its only recently its started bothering me,think i must be growing up although the corso is nippy has sports kit big wheels etc. Between the merc and the van it costs more the my house costs to keep which is barmy,as the van is just a tool for work and the car does very little. For less money i could have a holiday home in sweden and invite you all!!!
This is our home from home , a lot more than just a van.The TANK !!
Last summer up at loch Tay.
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/285/003qcnz.jpg
Craig........
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 00:09
I working on a Congo type rack at the moment, just depends on weather it's cheaper to buy of the shelf either self import or through one of the garages over here that do a.lot with Jeeps, or have one fabricated, hahaha I wonder what the police would say about a dog trailer, though more importantly i know my two would not travel in it, the kids might though?
The dog trailer I mentioned was a properly designed (enclosed; much like the airline type only more solid and aerodynamic) kennel so it would probably pass muster there as well. Wish I could post a pic but unfortunately I didn't get one.
Depends on your circumstances really i guess.
Personally i'm a petrolhead so love cars and take a lot of enjoyment from racing, driving and working on them.
The cost thing always gets me.
You get folks that buy a brand new car, service it every time at a main dealer, trade it in at a dealer, then buy another new car, THEN they complain about money :rolleyes:
Its not really rocket science.
I bought my Roadster (Jap import MX5/Miata) 8 years ago for £3k.
If i sold it tomorrow i could probably get £2k for it.
I do all the tuning and servicing work myself and although i've spent a small fortune making it go faster i'd get around 3/4 the value of that back again i removed all the bits and sold them separately.
The Mrs bought a Megane sport for €36k, 6 years later it's worth €10k.
She's lost €26k in depreciation only.
That's more than my car cost ALL the extra bits and aprt from fuel every penny i've spent on my car since i've owned it.
So it really depends on the person and if you can be bothered to save money.
Most folks complain about the cost of motoring but when you tell them not to buy new, don't service at a main dealer, NEVER sell at a dealer etc they all say "i can't be bothered to do anything else".
That's fine, but by the same hand they can't really complain about the cost of motoring if they're to lazy to actually acknowledge or do anything about it.
:deadhorse:
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 02:09
I do a good deal of my own work also. Realistically though, not everyone is mechanically inclined. It's not just a matter of choice; they simply don't have the skills to do their own work. For them, those extra maintenance costs are very real. As cars get more modern with more onboard electronics controlling the mechanics, I too am becoming more dependent on professional assistance. Being retired military I still have access to the Base auto hobby shop and can get free advise there often (as well as cheap access to a vehicle lift and heavy shop tools) But again, not everyone has that priveledge.
Regarding used vehicles; well that's partly true; if it's for a second vehicle or a hobby vehicle. If you seriously "need" a vehicle though it's probably imperative that it be absolutely reliable. Meaning that when I get in and turn the key it absolutely must start; no dallying around under the bonnet while the wife is sitting in the passenger seat screaming to get to the hospital maternity ward 20 miles away in town. Not such a big deal if you own 2 or more vehicles, or if it's more for convenience than necessity.
Graham_S
20-06-2011, 02:56
How much does it cost to run over there? It must be loads cheaper.
Petrol costs me 10p/l
I can commute to work for two weeks on £3 worth of petrol
Insurance comes with the car, servicing is cheap.
I do a good deal of my own work also. Realistically though, not everyone is mechanically inclined. It's not just a matter of choice; they simply don't have the skills to do their own work. For them, those extra maintenance costs are very real. As cars get more modern with more onboard electronics controlling the mechanics, I too am becoming more dependent on professional assistance. Being retired military I still have access to the Base auto hobby shop and can get free advise there often (as well as cheap access to a vehicle lift and heavy shop tools) But again, not everyone has that priveledge.
I can understand that.
With the folks i have in mind if they approached a car with a bucket and sponge i'd want the immediate area evacuated, never mind a spanner and socket set :lmao:
There are also those folks driving premium cars, although i did 99% of the work on my 911 myself i still had it serviced at a reputable specialist garage, as selling it on without a FSH would have been a nightmare and i'd have lost more than the services cost.
Then there are modern car EMS systems, all of which will need the service indicator reset and any OBD faults read and diagnosed.
If money was a major concern though (which i conclude it must be as these folks were sat in front of me moaning about it), then you'd think they'd at least be bothered enough to ring around and get a few quotes, rather than go straight to the main dealer.
A while back i was sat listening as the old gal told me how much her car cost her to run and the expenses she's had over the last year.
So i told her to itemise the expenses (as it was a new car so it shouldn't be THAT bad).
Turns out she took her car to the main dealer to get her tyres and exhaust changed :dunno:
She dug out the bill and she paid out £800 for the exhaust and £600 for 4 tyres.
To prove a point the next time were out i stopped off at the local ATS type place that i knew the main dealer used.
The exhaust was £350 fitted and the tyres £200 fitted and yes they had fitted both the exhaust and tyres to her car.
So that's near on £1000 she's paid to the main dealer just because she couldn't be bothered to ring round anywhere else.
She THEN sold the car a few weeks after :lmao:
Even crazier is when we were last back over, she sat moaning about the exact same thing, turns she did exactly the same when her new cars tyres needed replacing :lmao:
So motoring can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it.
If saving money is a major priority then go out and buy a used VW Polo bluemotion diesel, it'll sip fuel so slowly you'll have forgotten how to fill by the time it next needs more fuel :D
Buy it private and look around for a good deal, service it yourself or ring around some smaller garages and get some quotes.
It's diesel so the motor will still be running long after your grandkids have grey hair, just look after the shell and it'll last longer than many of us on here.
Regarding used vehicles; well that's partly true; if it's for a second vehicle or a hobby vehicle. If you seriously "need" a vehicle though it's probably imperative that it be absolutely reliable. Meaning that when I get in and turn the key it absolutely must start; no dallying around under the bonnet while the wife is sitting in the passenger seat screaming to get to the hospital maternity ward 20 miles away in town. Not such a big deal if you own 2 or more vehicles, or if it's more for convenience than necessity.
I'm sorry but there is no car or mechanical/electrical device on the planet that's 100% reliable, age and value makes absolutely no difference at all.
Speaking as someone that has been repairing, tuning, buying and selling being in or very close to the trade and driving pretty much all types of cars from £30 bangers to Ferrari's, Porsche's, classics etc for the last 30 years i can tell you i've had more new cars fail on me than old cars.
It really does not make any difference at all with regard to reliability, it's an old wives tail.
If you choose your car wisely, service and maintain it correctly and diagnose potential problems early it makes absolutely no difference reliability wise if it's 1 day old or 10 years old.
I've delivered brand new cars with 2 digits in the mileometer and had them fail, cam belt jumped, coil packs, fuel pumps, immobiliser, had the seat switch on Lexus stick one time pushing me into the steering wheel :D
These where brand new cars driven extremely carefully.
As another point towards my case the Mrs's car was brand new.
It's used extremely lightly, serviced regularly and kept in a covered parking.
She's had new coils, fuel pump, steering rack, 2 x sets of shocks, new sunroof, 2 x drivers and 1 x passenger window mechs.
It's not just because it's a Renault either :p
Me mates Merc has spent 3 weeks of the 3 months he's owned it back at the main dealer, because of various problems.
My MX5 is a 94 with just under 200k miles on the clock.
It's done the Greece UK drive 3 times, toured around Europe, it's raced and tracked several times a year, is used as daily transport and is used for 90% of any trips we go on.
Off the top of me head it's let me down 3 times in 8 years.
All 3 times 100% human error
1 x flat battery
As the passenger didn't close the door properly
1 x blown motor,
Was faffing about tuning, knew the fuel pump was weak, ignored it and ran lean at full boost.
1 x Supercharger pulley bolts sheared
I'd used the wrong bolts).
What makes it even crazier though, is if you buy a older car you get a better car for your money, and if you pick wisely not only will it not depreciate there's a damn good chance that if you sell it after 5 years you'll sell it for more than you bought it for.
£20k will get you a pretty basic new Mondeo
OR
A last of the air cooled 993 Porsche 911, pick wisely and there is no way shape or form it'll depreciate any more.
Elise, S2000 even the new Mini holds it's value.
So motoring can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it.
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 04:59
[QUOTE=cbr6fs;914417]...Speaking as someone that has been repairing, tuning, buying and selling being in or very close to the trade and driving pretty much all types of cars from £30 bangers to Ferrari's, Porsche's, classics etc for the last 30 years i can tell you i've had more new cars fail on me than old cars.
It really does not make any difference at all with regard to reliability, it's an old wives tail...
REPLY:
As someone who has been driving, repairing and modifying (and yes, racing when I was a teenager) cars, pick-ups, log trucks tractors, motorcycles outboard motors chainsaws and aircraft for over 40 years I disagree. Autos wear out; just like any other machine. The older it is, the more maintenance and repairs they need. That's why police cars, ambulances, and most emergency vehicles are replaced every 3 years or less; non emergency government autos every 5 years or so (unless your in corrections and get the worn out hand-me-downs.
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 05:10
...If saving money is a major priority then go out and buy a used...diesel...
I agree completely on this one. Unfortunately over here diesels are generally not available (anywhere on this continent) for anything less than a 3/4 ton truck. There are a couple of exceptions but rare. Even more unfathomable to me is that other than tractors and the commercial trucks, diesel is generally rejected by the public (that being the reason the manufacturers don't offer them) The popular high mileage vehicles (at the moment) are hybrids. They seem to do well but I'll hold judgement until they've been on the road a decade or so and have a proven record. Also semi-popular right now are pick-ups with variable displacement (a big block V8 engine that shuts down 4 cylinders when at constant highway speed)
REPLY:
As someone who has been driving, repairing and modifying (and yes, racing when I was a teenager) cars, pick-ups, log trucks tractors, motorcycles outboard motors chainsaws and aircraft for over 40 years I disagree. Autos wear out; just like any other machine. The older it is, the more maintenance and repairs they need. That's why police cars, ambulances, and most emergency vehicles are replaced every 3 years or less; non emergency government autos every 5 years or so (unless your in corrections and get the worn out hand-me-downs.
Of course mechanical components wear out.
That's why i specifically stated:
If you choose your car wisely, service and maintain it correctly and diagnose potential problems early it makes absolutely no difference reliability wise if it's 1 day old or 10 years old.
Emergency services vehicles are not changed every 3 years over here in Europe, so it's not a standard policy.
It's also worth pointing out that emergency vehicles are in use 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
These are not your typical operating conditions.
If you look through various workshop manuals you will find that it's rare that a service interval will reduce depending on the age or mileage in fact i've never seen or known of it.
So your statement.
The older it is, the more maintenance and repairs they need.
Is incorrect.
SOME older cars MAY need repairs as they get older, but by the same token so do new cars.
As i say if you pick wisely and have a certain amount of mechanical sympathy there is no reason a 10 year old motors won't run past 150k to 200k miles without a major rebuild.
Even then it's unlikely it will fail, you'll just end up burning more oil than petrol :lmao:
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 05:51
...It's also worth pointing out that emergency vehicles are in use 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
These are not your typical operating conditions...
Police cars are only driven for an 8 hour shift (5 days a week) or a 10 hour shift (4 days a week) then sit in the cops yard until the next duty shift. Ambulances and firetrucks sit at the department and only go out when there is an emergency call.
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 05:55
...If you look through various workshop manuals you will find that it's rare that a service interval will reduce depending on the age or mileage in fact i've never seen or known of it...
I've gotten the shop manual with evey NEW vehicle I've bought in the last 25 years. You're correct the service schedule does not reduce as it gets older; it ENDS after about 100,000 or 120,000 miles or 5 years.
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 06:00
...SOME older cars MAY need repairs as they get older, but by the same token so do new cars...
New cars are under warranty.
Police cars are only driven for an 8 hour shift (5 days a week) or a 10 hour shift (4 days a week) then sit in the cops yard until the next duty shift. Ambulances and firetrucks sit at the department and only go out when there is an emergency call.
Again that must be a regional thing as it's certainly not the case here, they're very much hot bunked.
I've gotten the shop manual with evey NEW vehicle I've bought in the last 25 years. You're correct the service schedule does not reduce as it gets older; it ENDS after about 100,000 or 120,000 miles or 5 years.
It ends because any further mileage is simply a repeat of the exact same service intervals.
The service at 100k will be the exact same service as it clicks round to 200k, 300k etc etc.
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 06:06
...I've delivered brand new cars with 2 digits in the mileometer and had them fail, cam belt jumped, coil packs, fuel pumps, immobiliser, had the seat switch on Lexus stick one time pushing me into the steering wheel :D
These where brand new cars driven extremely carefully...
These should have been repaired free under warranty or refunded under consumer protection laws (the "lemon" law)
New cars are under warranty.
Again speaking from extensive personal experience, the manufacturers warranty is more often than not simply not worth the paper it's written on.
I've seen customers hit with thousands of pounds worth of bills because it's a poor dealer and they found a get out clause somewhere.
In many of those cases the customer has had to take the matter through the courts to get a satisfactory conclusion.
If your a warranty type person though there are very many secondhand car dealers over here in Europe that offer a warranty with their cars.
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 06:15
Again that must be a regional thing as it's certainly not the case here, they're very much hot bunked...
A cop car is the cop's "office." All of his ticket books, back-up weapons, spare handcuffs, files, body armor, shotgun, etc. are in the vehicle. The department computer (with all his personal files) is installed. Is a European cop expected to remove and re-install everything at each change of watch? To download his files and reload them?
Are ambulances and firetrucks constantly patrolling around hoping for a call?
Just as important, are the departments willing to accept the fidicuary liability issues when fielding older vehicles?
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 06:18
Again speaking from extensive personal experience, the manufacturers warranty is more often than not simply not worth the paper it's written on.
I've seen customers hit with thousands of pounds worth of bills because it's a poor dealer and they found a get out clause somewhere...
This may well be a regional thing. Over here the dealers rely on repeat business and family brand loyalty so warranties are very well honored.
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 06:21
...It ends because any further mileage is simply a repeat of the exact same service intervals.
The service at 100k will be the exact same service as it clicks round to 200k, 300k etc etc.
Granted the interval continues at the same rate but that's not why manual ends; it ends because that's the point where the manufacturer considers the vehicle will be either unreliable or (more likely) obsolete.
These should have been repaired free under warranty or refunded under consumer protection laws (the "lemon" law)
This is getting a little silly now.
You prefer to buy new cars, your money, your choice goodjob
Personally i'm extremely happy that you do, as that means your pocket is taking the massive depreciation over the first few years of ownership.
You'll also by ironing out any potential assembly errors and going through the hassle of trying to claim the warranty on them.
If your willing to flush thousands and thousands of dollars away for absolutely no reason that is completely your choice :goodluck:
From my own personal extensive experiences though i prefer to buy older cars, i'm confident in my abilities to sniff out a bad one and so far i've not had any regrets about my choices.
You can pick away at my posts but the fact does still remain that new cars do fail.
Bad cars have been manufactured and many manufacturers have done extension recalls on many many cars (Toyota anyone :lmao:).
As i say i choose the model i can i buy extremely carefully.
I do extensive research and narrow my list down to a few, i then test drive the hell out of as many examples as i can find, i then research that model of car to find out any possible failure points.
I then find one in the price range i'm willing to pay, give it an extensive check over, test drive, weigh up the previous owner etc.
Then buy.
Some will not have the energy to do that, again there is no right or wrong here, it's a personal choice.
Some prefer to roll up to a dealer, roll out their cars, sign the paper work and roll out in their new car.
Again fair enough.
But they must be aware that they've lost thousands the second they signed the paperwork, it'll then be a financial downhill from there onwards.
Again fair enough.
BUT they can't in good concious sit there and complain about how much money they've lost and the cost of motoring (i'm talking about personal experiences here, not having a go at anyone on here).
You make you bed, you lay in it :drive:
A cop car is the cop's "office." All of his ticket books, back-up weapons, spare handcuffs, files, body armor, shotgun, etc. are in the vehicle. The department computer (with all his personal files) is installed. Is a European cop expected to remove and re-install everything at each change of watch? To download his files and reload them?
Are ambulances and firetrucks constantly patrolling around hoping for a call?
Yep he/she certainly are.
Plus of course the cops in the UK are not armed goodjob
This may well be a regional thing. Over here the dealers rely on repeat business and family brand loyalty so warranties are very well honored.
Nope it's exactly the same in the US, i have had mates that have had major problems with dealers honouring the warranty on new cars.
In this case the dealer insisted that my mate had down shifted to hard over reving the engine.
Odd thing is it was an Automatic transmission so it was physically impossible to downshift too hard.
He managed to sort it in the end, but it meant his car was sat for nearly 1 year awaiting repair.
When he did eventually get it back running there was not 1 panel on the car that had been damaged, the interior stunk, the carpet was wet through and the stereo and speakers were missing.
Rather than go through the courts again, he just sold it.
Granted the interval continues at the same rate but that's not why manual ends; it ends because that's the point where the manufacturer considers the vehicle will be either unreliable or (more likely) obsolete.
Because of manufacturing cost cutting it's extremely rare these days to have a car "obsolete".
Main reason being that very few parts are specific to certain model, the vast vast majority are shared across a platform or even across an entire run.
Even on older cars, again if you pick wisely you can find anything.
A guy on another forum i participate in has just bought a brand new shell for his MGB.
This a car that's 40 years old :drive:
It's also a legal obligation on car manufacturers that they must produce parts for 10 years after the production date.
Again from personal experience my MX5 is a 1994 so it's 17 years old and counting.
I have absolutely no problem what-so-ever find any parts, from plastic clips to new suspension wishbones i can find them within a few mins searching.
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 06:54
...Because of manufacturing cost cutting it's extremely rare these days to have a car "obsolete".
Main reason being that very few parts are specific to certain model, the vast vast majority are shared across a platform or even across an entire run.
Even on older cars, again if you pick wisely you can find anything.
A guy on another forum i participate in has just bought a brand new shell for his MGB.
This a car that's 40 years old...
The same is true here. In fact after 5 or so years parts actually get cheaper; the original manufacturer opens the patents and after-market makers begin to make generic parts and rebuilt components.
But that's not what I meant by "obsolete." I mean the very design doesn't usually meet current customers' expectations after that.
Personally I prefer older cars as well (perhaps for different reasons though) I simply have a love affair going with 1960s era vehicles. It's when I learned to drive and it was the age of raw engine muscle and awe inspiring body styles.
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 06:57
The same is true here. In fact after 5 or so years parts actually get cheaper; the original manufacturer opens the patents and after-market makers begin to make generic parts and rebuilt components.
But that's not what I meant by "obsolete." I mean the very design doesn't usually meet current customers' expectations after that.
Personally I prefer older cars as well (perhaps for different reasons though) I simply have a love affair going with 1960s era vehicles. It's when I learned to drive and it was the age of raw engine muscle and awe inspiring body styles.
If/when money permits, I want to find and rebuild a Jeep CJ5 and a Pontiac GTO as well as a Chevelle Malibu (all from the 60s era)
santaman2000
20-06-2011, 07:05
...Yep he/she certainly are.
Plus of course the cops in the UK are not armed goodjob...
They weren't armed when I was stationed there. Now-a-days all the pictures of UK cops online or in the news have them carrying semi-auto pistols, side handled batons and/or sub machine guns. I just took it from the news pics that the situation had changed. In any case weapons are still only a small part of the total personal equipment and most other European agencies are definitely armed.
Bushwhacker
20-06-2011, 09:01
Here, we would be completely stranded without a car for every person. No buses for three miles. Clearly the types can vary - and not many drive luxurious Mercs.
Waste of money? Absolute necessity for rural dwellers
You're right there, I've gone 6 months without a car but it's starting to get difficult now - 7 miles into town and it's real hilly.
demographic
20-06-2011, 12:14
They weren't armed when I was stationed there. Now-a-days all the pictures of UK cops online or in the news have them carrying semi-auto pistols, side handled batons and/or sub machine guns. I just took it from the news pics that the situation had changed. In any case weapons are still only a small part of the total personal equipment and most other European agencies are definitely armed.
The last (and only) time I saw a copper with a gun was when there was a very high profile case being held and they were acting as security, that was maybe seven or so years ago.
That's in a city of about a hundred thousand and wherever else I have been in the meantime.
There's armed response units for most towns but its very rare indeed to see a copper carrying a gun.
Maybe in central London with the various terrorist scares its different but that's in no way indicative of the rest of the country.
They weren't armed when I was stationed there. Now-a-days all the pictures of UK cops online or in the news have them carrying semi-auto pistols, side handled batons and/or sub machine guns. I just took it from the news pics that the situation had changed. In any case weapons are still only a small part of the total personal equipment and most other European agencies are definitely armed.
yes all areas have armed officers but they arnt the norm but do show up for most things you see on the news
no a Brit copper doesn't have his own car even the traffic guys dont. The beat guys may have one small car for the whole section to share
they dont even have their own desk / computer to do the paperwork just a space and terminal to use while they are on duty after they patrol etc all their stuff is carried on the vests and the traffic car has a std load out as has has an armed response vehicular which all the guns and ammo have to be taken out and signed back into the armory before going home even coppers dont own or carry outside work The next shift will sign out another set of kit and load up etc
(bear in mind the Armed guy will never have fired the weapon hes carrying on duty they practice with other guns and the Duty ones are bore sighted by the armourer)
ATB
Duncan
Being a joiner i have a van but it gets used for everything from work to transporting kids and various boats and carrying all our camping gear for holidays .
It's an 11year old ex police riot van that has just had a shed load of money on it to get i through it's MOT. the running costs are the down side but we would be lost without it , in a couple of weeks we are heading of with the kids camping ( camping gear for 4 + 4 kayaks + a 1800kg rib ) Can't do that with a fiesta !
Craig................
I used to have one of those too. :) It was a turbo diesel fully kitted out with removable seats and still had some of the police customization installed. It was a great multi-purpose vehicle. I'd take out the seats to use for work and use it for ferrying people around and we'd go camping with it.
I remember pulling up at a few places and they thought it was a police raid. :D
Ok im slightly going back on my word but i couldnt justify spending £13000 on a new corso to loose yet more money in depreciation so i managed to talk the missis into a used car and best of all she chose a car i quite like myself a toyota rav4, its a few years old so shouldnt loose too much money and its cheaper to run than the merc plus its perfect for trips and putting the dogs in, also handy in the winter.
Iv had a few 4x4s and have driven both style of ravs off road and they are supprisingly good off road.http://tapatalk.com/mu/c123840e-3896-2d01.jpghttp://tapatalk.com/mu/c123841f-38a6-92bf.jpghttp://tapatalk.com/mu/c1238404-38b6-d3e3.jpghttp://tapatalk.com/mu/c1238437-38c6-3e4b.jpg
Hope you like cheers ash
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
British Red
28-06-2011, 22:07
Good call - my Yota has been stone cold brilliant for reliability. Ten years and 100,000 miles and it has never failed to start, never broken down, never required more than routine servicing, has no rust at all, no mechanical failures and no parts gone beyond routine stuff like bulbs.
Superb vehicles
santaman2000
28-06-2011, 22:21
Yeah. Despite the recalls I still have loads of faith in Toyota.
Ye my dads had 3 ravs and iv had a hilux and theyv all been great cars, drive great too i think there a bit underestimated by some compared to landrovers
Ex-member EagleOwl
29-06-2011, 16:24
In a lot of countries a car is a necessity for travel but in Britain there are only really some people who need there own vehicle, like people who live in the countryside, workmen who need a van, disabled people.
Personally can't see any need for a car in Britain outside the areas i mention.
My nearest shops 3 miles away, you know what i do when i need shopping? walk, or get a bus, if you can't get a weeks worth of shopping that far then get 2 or 3 days worth.
Need to get to work, get a bus or train.
Very little need for cars in the UK.
Really winds me up TBH especially those 4 wheel drive users who don't live in the countryside/ need it for a work related purpose.
Ex-member EagleOwl
29-06-2011, 16:30
Just to add, When i become Prime minister shortly after hell freezes over any vehicle over 50 BHP that is not a tractor willy be destroyed as there isno need at all for it.
In a lot of countries a car is a necessity for travel but in Britain there are only really some people who need there own vehicle, like people who live in the countryside, workmen who need a van, disabled people.
Personally can't see any need for a car in Britain outside the areas i mention.
My nearest shops 3 miles away, you know what i do when i need shopping? walk, or get a bus, if you can't get a weeks worth of shopping that far then get 2 or 3 days worth.
Need to get to work, get a bus or train.
Very little need for cars in the UK.
Really winds me up TBH especially those 4 wheel drive users who don't live in the countryside/ need it for a work related purpose.
Need is one thing, i could probably get by with just 1 car, but i choose to own 2 cars as i enjoy racing, working on and driving my second car.
As for a 50bhp limit, i think it's an over-simplistic view point that really offers no solution to anything or anyone and just shows ignorance towards the subject.
Although it'd be cool cause i'd have by far the fastest car on the road then :drive:
Cars are almost without exception a complete waste of money and resources. Trust me, I run more than most, and they have a few lines all to themselves in the accounts, so I know what they cost.
To say that they're essential for people in the countryside is to ignore the fact that people did actually manage to live in the countryside when there really wasn't anything much except countryside to live in, and cars didn't even exist.
Even when cars were just starting to become popular, men and women used to walk from Amelie-les-Bains to the snow hole near my house in France, to collect snow, and to carry it, in sacks on their backs and on little trollies, back to Amelie. There they would sell it to the hotels and other establishments catering for the rich people taking the waters. It's six miles from Amelie to the snow hole, and the climb is from two hundred metres to five hundred metres, and they used to do that two or sometimes three times a day, from when the first snow fell in winter until all the snow was gone in the spring.
People whinging about needing cars in the countryside nowadays are just pussies by comparison with some of their ancestors.
Cars are almost without exception a complete waste of money and resources. Trust me, I run more than most, and they have a few lines all to themselves in the accounts, so I know what they cost.
To say that they're essential for people in the countryside is to ignore the fact that people did actually manage to live in the countryside when there really wasn't anything much except countryside to live in, and cars didn't even exist.
Even when cars were just starting to become popular, men and women used to walk from Amelie-les-Bains to the snow hole near my house in France, to collect snow, and to carry it, in sacks on their backs and on little trollies, back to Amelie. There they would sell it to the hotels and other establishments catering for the rich people taking the waters. It's six miles from Amelie to the snow hole, and the climb is from two hundred metres to five hundred metres, and they used to do that two or sometimes three times a day, from when the first snow fell in winter until all the snow was gone in the spring.
People whinging about needing cars in the countryside nowadays are just pussies by comparison with some of their ancestors.
By the same logic though expectations were a LOT less then.
If it wasn't for work i'd have 1 car and only use that on good days and at the track, as it is though i am on a 2 hour response 24 hours a day 7 days a week at a location 35 miles away.
The fact remain i could not get my laptop, tools etc weighing in around 35kg to work within 2 hours if it wasn't for some type of powered transport.
So although i agree that a entire new mindset and life change is needed to get people out their cars, it's over simplistic to the point of being useless to sum up that
People whinging about needing cars in the countryside nowadays are just pussies
santaman2000
29-06-2011, 18:56
...Really winds me up TBH especially those 4 wheel drive users who don't live in the countryside/ need it for a work related purpose.
Who said "Need" means "work related?" Recreation is just as valid a need as any other. 4 wheelin' is an extremely enjoyable sport. Even when I lived in town I played in the country. I've been on class IV trails so far but hope to eventually make it to the Rubicon Trail (Class X) and I know I'm only daydreaming about The Widowmaker in Utah but who knows; maybe one day.
santaman2000
29-06-2011, 19:02
...My nearest shops 3 miles away, you know what i do when i need shopping? walk, or get a bus, if you can't get a weeks worth of shopping that far then get 2 or 3 days worth...
Yes but what do you do when your schedule only allows you to get to town (or the shop) every couple of weeks (or sometimes only every month or two) Also if you can only bring home 2 or 3 days worth of shopping it means you have to go to the added expense of extra trips; the inability to buy in bulk for a cheaper price; the inability to stock up while items are on sale to multiply the savings. In other words, shopping every 2 or 3 days adds some of that expense back. Plus it's annoying as heck; I'm a guy; I really don't like doing shopping. Ergo I try to make every trip count.
santaman2000
29-06-2011, 19:05
...walk, or get a bus...
Train? Bus? I've heard of those. Aren't they those things where you sit in the back and let someone else drive? It'll never catch on. Besides you would have to follow their schedule. Nah. That dog won't hunt.
santaman2000
29-06-2011, 19:12
...Even when cars were just starting to become popular, men and women used to walk from Amelie-les-Bains to the snow hole near my house in France, to collect snow, and to carry it, in sacks on their backs and on little trollies, back to Amelie. There they would sell it to the hotels and other establishments catering for the rich people taking the waters. It's six miles from Amelie to the snow hole, and the climb is from two hundred metres to five hundred metres, and they used to do that two or sometimes three times a day, from when the first snow fell in winter until all the snow was gone in the spring...pussies by comparison with some of their ancestors.
Lets see. You say its 6 miles from Amelie to the snow hole; that's 12 miles round trip. You also say they made up to 3 trips a day; that makes 36 miles. A standard military forced march is 20 miles a day (a bit more for special forces, maybe up to 30 on occassion) Those must have been some really impressive people.
santaman2000
29-06-2011, 19:20
Just to add, When i become Prime minister shortly after hell freezes over any vehicle over 50 BHP that is not a tractor willy be destroyed as there isno need at all for it.
That's less than good sized motorcycle.
Hahaha I love my 200 BHP 4.0L straight six Jeep Wrangler that we can't all fit in. I even drive to the spar some 1.5k away just to drive it. I sit there and warm it up, then run for ten mus or so at the end of every trip, I take it off road I drive it on road with Mt tires on, I could put the trailer on the cycle and peddle to Tesco for the weekly shop, I could. But it wouldn't be as fun baby! Your house isn't a necessity neither is your job or clothes or computer they are just nice to have and fun to use!
Nice one southey i agree why have the expence of a car if your not gona enjoy it,
if the government want people to stop using there cars so much then they should stop removing local work and letting factories move abroad. Also reduce commuting to a set distance people want to earn big money in london but commute a 1000 miles to live someware nice which also stops locals being able to afford a house in there home town.
Moan moan moan moan tell me to shut up
Who said "Need" means "work related?" Recreation is just as valid a need as any other. 4 wheelin' is an extremely enjoyable sport. Even when I lived in town I played in the country. I've been on class IV trails so far but hope to eventually make it to the Rubicon Trail (Class X) and I know I'm only daydreaming about The Widowmaker in Utah but who knows; maybe one day.
so very much want to run the Rubicon!, looking at fly drives for that very reason, wifely went to Moab two years ago and made me insanely jealous with pics of the rigs just tooling around town do you read Stu offroad (http://www.stu-offroad.com/)?
santaman2000
29-06-2011, 20:07
I'm with you Southey. Maybe we should start a parallel thread;
Wives, a necessity or a waste of money?
-or-
Wives, is it better to buy or to lease?
Hang on, I think were crossed here somewhere Dude, hahaha Jeeps rulehttp://www.durangoclub.com/forum/files/mall_rated.jpg
SHUT UUUUUUP!:p
Cheers buddy.
How do u find the wrangler off road,one of the few iv not been in
Are you on face book? the only thing I have changed on mine is the tyres, 28" dueller mt 673's, it does everything i want it too, just have to drive smart and not put both feet in the ruts, I shall put some vids on you tube and poke up another thread.
Awsome yes im on facebook mate Wish i had some vids of when i did alot of off roading phones wernt very good then tho
Started a thread for trucking about in trucks (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75764) so we don't spam this thread with our positive waves.
If you want a cheap car that is really tight when it comes to fuel, I would vote Peugeot 106, the 1.1 lawmoaner engine isnt exactly the dream, but it does the trick! I used to a lot of things, and back and forth in rush traffic to work. STILL, I only filled it up once a month.
I regret selling it, my Suzukie Grand Vitara is nicer in the winter and in the rual area`s, with the 4x4, but it use a lot more fuel.
My wife bikes to work moast of the year, nice way to keep fit!
We have a VW T4 van and a Honda XL1000v Varadero bike and i think they're great value for money..... However we don't have any kids ("KIDS" Now we're talking a waste of money)