Winter Bag

[Madhouse]

Apoligies in advance as this has probably been asked many times before.

Ok firstly ive decided that i wish to continue with my addiction to bushcraft when it gets a bit colder.... and when i say a bit i meen very cold, maybe a low of -15C

and im torn between two bags.

1. http://www.surplusandadventure.com/ishop/800/shopscr3032.html
its a military issue ECW down bag and its only £50 however im a-bit apprehensive because the website doesnt give much information.

2. Snugpak Antarctic RE2 .... its a very nice looking bag and it has a good temperature rating but its quite expensive and the cheapest ive found is about £150.

so if anyone owns either of these bags or has some general comment/oppinion/knowledge speak up!

Thanx Mad

[addyb]

Before you make your decision: ask yourself these questions:

1) Are either of the 2 bags down, or synthetic?

2) Are either of the 2 bags gore-tex?

3) Are you going to buy a bivvy sac?

I'd say go for down. It lasts longer, compresses better, and doesn't smell as bad. (Provided you keep it dry!) If you're buying a down bag, you know the weather's going to be bad, and you can't afford a gore-tex bag, do yourself a favour and buy a bivvy sac. Trust me, you'll thank yourself!

On the other hand, synthetic bags still provide warmth when wet, the pseudo-fibres are slicked with silicon. But they are heavy as all hell, don't compress very well, absorb body odours, and don't last too long.

Military sleeping bags are heavy as all hell, but usually down. The ECW (Exreme Cold Weather) is a 3 part sleeping system, there's an inner, outer, and a bivvy bag. Unless you're a big person, humping that around in the winter's going to kick your ass!

In the end, the decision is entirely up to you!

A.

[innocent bystander]

I'll just get in before someone else mentions it - get a Nanok bag. the -10 would probably do the job for you...

[arctic hobo]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?p=95091#post950 91

I must add that I have used the "Antarctica" bag on two nights and have extremely grave reservations about it. I would very strongly recommend that it is not used below about -15 degrees celsius. PM me if you want the full explanation ;)
One tip you may not have thought of - get bags with plastic zips, as when the mercury drops skin starts sticking to metal. And believe me, it is extremely painful! :eek:

[Beakytzw]

Add a gortex bag and you should be ok at -15 surely.

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/ishop/800/shopscr3082.html

[arctic hobo]

And by the way -15 isn't cold :p Whereabouts would you be using the bag?

[Neil1]

I think the bag in question is either the current issue sleeping bag or an old arctic down bag. Both are very warm, but also very big, great if you are "car-camping" but a bit big & heaving if you have to carry it any distance.
The Antarctica bag is what the current issue bag was based on, not a bad bag, a reasonable size and OK for UK winter use (although a mate of mine spent a night on Dartmoor in one and said he was cold!).
I have been out in this country and slept @ -18 using the buffalo system, great in wet conditions, but heavy and quite bulky.
I currently use a ME TDS (0c rated), this packs down small, is light and ideal for bushcrafting and I can use it year round.
Don't get too hooked up in low temp rated bags, how many nights in the year will it be -15??. Get something lighter, smaller and easier to carry, if its cold add a bivi bag and extra clothing (down jackets are great for this).
Neil

[Beakytzw]

Man made fibre, is the current issue, I have one 58 pattern and the current issue, the 58 pattern is lighter and warmer.

[marshall4771]

I have found Snugpac bags to be cold and not rated as stated. I might just be a cold sleeper - what does everyone else think ?

Shaun :confused:

[arctic hobo]

I have found Snugpac bags to be cold and not rated as stated. I might just be a cold sleeper - what does everyone else think ?

Shaun :confused:
See the link in my post ;)

[Graham_S]

i've always found ajungilak (spelling alert) to be very good. but i personally use a medium bag and add fleece liners and bivi bags as required. that means that one bag can be used all year round.

[arctic hobo]

i've always found ajungilak (spelling alert) to be very good. but i personally use a medium bag and add fleece liners and bivi bags as required. that means that one bag can be used all year round.
Spelling perfect there Graham. Ajungilak do make good bags - mainly geared more toward the Alpine market than the Scandinavian since Mammut took them over - but not too much. The Tyin bags are very good :)

[Madhouse]

Ok so from what you've all being saying snugpak's bags are overrated and over priced, so its now down to either a Nanok bag (still to do some research there) or the "British Army 58 pattern Sleeping Bag" which is going for a very nice £25 :cool: . im going to look into both of them and then hopefully make a purchase :)

thanks for all the help!

[arctic hobo]

Where will you be using the bag?

[Phil562]

Be careful when buying a 58 Bag:

A - they are not current issue, have not been for a good few years now. So I recommend a close inspection.

B - Available in different lengths, if you can get a "long".

[greg2935]

I have the old issue artic bag which I think is the one in your link, and an old 58 bag. Both are cheap, bulky and very warm. I find the artic bag the better as I use it as a quilt in summer. It's weight is about half of my total load though which is the main down side. I have used both bags for over a year in the UK in all weathers with no ill affects (the bag is carried inside a bivy as a bed roll and thus stay dry), to be honest I am not sure it is possible to keep warm in any bag irrespective of make if it got wet anyway. The major issue with the old bags is many have been repaired (and thus lost some of the insulation), the fabric can also be quite worn, so I think if you can source a relatively new bag, you should get a great all-rounder bag for next to nothing.

[Tex]

I would buy my arctic 58 every time. It's top value for money. If you are still thinking about spending 150.00 quid. You could buy the issue jungle bag for around 45.00 quid for a summer bag and pop it in the 58 arctic if you go any where really really cold. I did this during a very cold spell in Scotland when it reached -22. The only thing i would say is put the water for your breakfast, tea etc in side with you or it will freeze and then no brew. Only need to make that kinda mistake once. On the sleeping bag note the down in the arctic bag compresses much better than any synth bag of a simular temp range. Used with a goretex bivi it's a great combination. :D

[j.roberts7]

sleeping bags sleeping bags ahhhhh sleeping bags
now theres a subject you can chat about for hours
ive used all sorts of bags inc snug pack, pattern 58 issue bags, etc etc
at the moment am using a buffalo dp bag £185 its pertex with fibre pile filling and a pertex liner its very warm even when very very cold use your cloths instead of a inner bag i have also got into the bag with wet clothes and woke up bone dry after a very warm and cosy nights sleep fantastic bag you can even wash it in a river without any dammage and it drys out quick even when fully wet you still get tosleep what more can i say i use a bivvy bag with it in all weather
it cost me lots of money to find a bag i liked and did the job i wanted hope you dont have to go to all the same expense to find the one you like ok cheers mate hope this of some help

[Abbe Osram]

I have a Nanok minus 25 and I am happy with it.
cheers
Abbe

[Brendan]

The bag from surplus & Adventure looks identical to the snugpak Antartica, maybe its the older version without any foil. Good price even if it is.
I think they just using the picture!

Anyway I own one and they are pretty warm and luxurious if you want to carry 3kg! I would say to -15 is a fair rating but then ratings are pretty vague in my experience.

[marshall4771]

Can I ask if the nanok and ajungilak bags are good in the dry cold of the artic and maybe not so good in the damp cold that we suffer here in the UK

I'm ready to trade my snugpac softie 6 in for one of the above bags but will be mainly wild camping here in the UK , are they up to it ?

Shaun :confused:

[Mikey P]

Haven't read all the thread so I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but, try www.alpkit.com for cold-weather down bag at remarkable price. I've used them for climbing trips in a bivi bag and it's been great.

An alternative is buy two bags, one slightly large, and use them together. You get the benefit of flexibility (can use bags alone or together), and two bags are warmer than one big one when used together.

Does that make sense?

[lardbloke]

I generally feel the cold especially at night, so prefer to use cold weather bags even in the Summer months. If I get a little too warm I can at least climb out and use it as a duvet. I used to use the old 93 pattern artic job, but was a little roomy for me in the colder months. Any general (so called) 4 season winter bag (hood and baffle) usually works well in this country as long as you are protected from draughts (bivvy bag) and have something underneath you. For colder extreams I bought a softie 18 off a mate (he used it out in Afghanistan in winter -30) and says it is ok. If I get too cold I always climb into my merklon liner inside the bag for that extra burn. It is definately a matter of personal taste and you will soon learn what works for you. I was after the Nanok bags (the SF) but they are very hard to obtain at the moment due to the re-sourcing of the pertex issue. If you are looking to extreme weather then you should look into what the people of that area would use and in particular the military.

[arctic hobo]

Can I ask if the nanok and ajungilak bags are good in the dry cold of the artic and maybe not so good in the damp cold that we suffer here in the UK

I'm ready to trade my snugpac softie 6 in for one of the above bags but will be mainly wild camping here in the UK , are they up to it ?

Shaun :confused:
Forgive me if I'm a little sharp, but those bags are a lot more than "up to it". You will find they very easily outperform their Snugpac "equivalents". The only difference moisture makes is if the bag is down, when wet it will lose most of its insulative properties. However many people use down bags in the UK. And Nanok and Ajungilak have a great range of artificial fibre bags, perhaps even a majority share. I assure you, there are no conditions in the UK for which a bag made by either of those two companies is not suitable.

[Stuart]

I would seriously suggest that for temperatures -15 and below you disregard synthetic bags completely and stick with down.

the temperature ratings on many synthetic bags are very dubious (the snugpak temp ratings are appalling) however the nanok ratings are good.

synthetic bags which will be warm at -15> will be very very bulky and heavy when compared with the equivalent down bags.

the qualities of synthetic bags over down in high humidity are of little benefit at -15> any moisture is going to be frozen and so of little concern.

forget any advice about 'gortex' (or other PTFE 'breathable membrane') sleeping bags for temperatures -15 and below, at these temperature gortex stops working and all 'breathablity' is lost

[swamp donkey]

Well folks ,

The whole sleping bag issue is very imotive as it is so personal, one mans sluggly bag is another mans fridge. The only real way is to borrow a bag to sleep in and see if it suites you.Meets are a good way to do this
My personal experence is that man made fibre bags are fine for me. I once slept 135 straight days tent camping on the snow/ ice/beach in the Anarctic using a hollowfill bag and one of the very first Gortex bivi bags, with temps often well below -20 and up to zero on the coast, with no problem, never got wet even when the tent disintergated in the wind (with no chance to wash the bag either). Other people using the same bag had to use fibre pile liners and some their clothes as well. The down bags did not survive as well with being constantly packed and unpacked and slightly damp all 10 people where in man made fibre bags by the end . I am still using that same bag 21 years later and am still happy with it! And thats one of the reasons the new military bags are made made fibre but thats another story. ;)
The 3kg weight I do not find a problem as I would rather have a good solid bag and save weight esle were .I always use a gortex bivi bag firstly it protects your bag from hoar frost and drips in the morning , Almost as importantly it protects it from stray cups of tea,and other unpleasant things. a must in my eyes. :rolleyes:
This is just my experience so\make of it what you will

Swamp Donkey

[Kepis]

Having read this entire thread from start to finish iit would appear that Snugpak don't have a good reputation with the users of this forum, however i need to replace my once trusty sack and cannot justify the cost of a down filled bag, no matter how good they are, i have spoken to couple of people who own SnugPak bags and have never had a problem and rate them highly, as i need a new bag at reasonible cost i am thinking of getting the Snugpak Sleeper Extreme 3, it would be used with a pad and a bivvi bag and would like to know if you think this would be suitable for 3 season use, with the odd winter trip being thrown in for good measure, it would be used in conjunction with a tent (when i take nipper) and a basha when i go on my ownsome.

Your thoughts please

[marshall4771]

now I have decided to buy a nanok I have a hardly used snug pac softie 6 ( kestrel). with expander piece for sale. complete with stuff sack.

Shaun

[innocent bystander]

I use the SF1 for summer use and it's quite adequate. Hell i sleep in a poncho liner on occasion, and it's got to be warmer than that :) . Buy a snuggie for summer and give it a go in colder with some back up. cant say fairer than that!! You might be alright with it. It's a personal thing....

[arctic hobo]

Having read this entire thread from start to finish iit would appear that Snugpak don't have a good reputation with the users of this forum, however i need to replace my once trusty sack and cannot justify the cost of a down filled bag, no matter how good they are, i have spoken to couple of people who own SnugPak bags and have never had a problem and rate them highly, as i need a new bag at reasonible cost i am thinking of getting the Snugpak Sleeper Extreme 3, it would be used with a pad and a bivvi bag and would like to know if you think this would be suitable for 3 season use, with the odd winter trip being thrown in for good measure, it would be used in conjunction with a tent (when i take nipper) and a basha when i go on my ownsome.

Your thoughts please
Not buying down does not exclude any manufacturers at all. Snugpac (not a personal thing, a statement of fact) overestimate their temperature ratings so it can seem like their bags are cheaper - the true equivalent is probably about the same price. Anyway. You buy what you want - but don't forget, there are better and cheaper manufacturers of fibre bags out there. Not sure why everyone thinks the Scandinavian manufacturers only use down. A quick look on any website would quickly sort that out :rolleyes:

[Kepis]

Not buying down does not exclude any manufacturers at all. Snugpac (not a personal thing, a statement of fact) overestimate their temperature ratings so it can seem like their bags are cheaper - the true equivalent is probably about the same price. Anyway. You buy what you want - but don't forget, there are better and cheaper manufacturers of fibre bags out there. Not sure why everyone thinks the Scandinavian manufacturers only use down. A quick look on any website would quickly sort that out :rolleyes:

Got any suggestions for an alternative to the Snugpac, im open to options, you came up trumphs with the sleeping mat, hoping you can do the same here, not looking to spend more than £40.00 btw

[arctic hobo]

<sharp intake of breath> No offence, but 40 quid is a tall order for any bag, never mind a 3 season.
For 70 you could get the Mountain Hard Wear Etna, which is a superb bag rated to 2 centigrade. I know this sounds very light. But how often do we get below 2 in the UK? Not too often, and with a liner you might even find it warm for 3 season. There's also the Nanok Endurance 0 bag. This is a summer bag for Norway, but in the UK it will cope admirably with 3 season conditons. Most importantly, Nanok ratings are as good if not better (I have frequently used better) than their stated rating. So you may be comfortable down to -5, depending on how warm you sleep. This bag is also 70 quid, and can be nested with the -10 for an extra warm bag. It also has a no glue construction, which means you can machine wash it at 60 degrees, can be zipped into other bags to share warmth, has a boot bucket to protect the bottom if you're keeping your boots on that comes out and can be used to carry water, and has fibre at different angles to eliminate cold spots, etc, etc. In short, I believe that this is one of the best sleeping bag ranges designed - even more so thanks to the comfort being far beyond what is stated.
A cheaper alternative is the Mountain Equipment Sleepwalker. This is also rated to 0. It's not a bad bag - fairly basic, and has much more realistic temperature ratings than perhaps any bag that Snugpak sell. This is 50 quid.
At the end of the day it's quite up to you. Go to the shop, try them out. Since you asked for my advice I'll put in a quick word about Snugpak (shorter than the usual rant anyway!) - you really do need to buy several ratings warmer than you need. Or you will get very cold indeed. It's important - after all people can die. I'm almost hoping (this sounds terrible!) someone does so they are forced to get their act together and stop (warning! rage!) lying to the public (rage over :D ) In addition to this, because they are all about size and weight, the stuffsacks are tiny. Quite apart from jamming the damn thing in there, this crushes the bag to bits, which has a strong adverse effect on the lofting power of the fibre. This means the bag will last a lot less time than one with a half decently sized stuffsack.
Best of luck in your search ;)
Chris

[Kepis]

Thanks Chris,

Snugpak now firmly discounted, looking at the Nanok Endurance 0 on your recommendation, also had a PM from another member on this bag, will check it out fully at lunchtime.

Have also upped my budget slightly

[leon-1]

I would seriously suggest that for temperatures -15 and below you disregard synthetic bags completely and stick with down.

the temperature ratings on many synthetic bags are very dubious (the snugpak temp ratings are appalling) however the nanok ratings are good.

synthetic bags which will be warm at -15> will be very very bulky and heavy when compared with the equivalent down bags.

the qualities of synthetic bags over down in high humidity are of little benefit at -15> any moisture is going to be frozen and so of little concern.

forget any advice about 'gortex' (or other PTFE 'breathable membrane') sleeping bags for temperatures -15 and below, at these temperature gortex stops working and all 'breathablity' is lost

Stuart, I have used Goretex in cold temperatures like these with a sleeping bag, the major reason for using it was if you don't the vapour from your breath settles and freezes on your sleeping bag, which could mean a cold soggy frozen down bag :eek:

Someone mentioned them before, but the military bags are pretty good, Ajungilak used to make a pretty good bag called the Tyin which was very warm, so that may be worth having a look for :)

[Beer Monster]

Thanks Chris,

Snugpak now firmly discounted, looking at the Nanok Endurance 0 on your recommendation, also had a PM from another member on this bag, will check it out fully at lunchtime.

Have also upped my budget slightly

I'm getting my Nanok 0oC from out Outdoorcode (http://www.outdoorcode.co.uk/) on Thursday or Friday. Can't wait :) .

Would highly reccomed them as they have kept me updated on all the pertex problems and got it for me at a very resonable price (and they have a special deal going on at the moment as you get a cheap Nanok pillow with your sleeping bag ..... bonza!) in the quickest possible time! :D

For all your info Nanok have now sorted out the pertex sourcing issues and the first shipments should be in on Tuesday or Wednesday.

[arctic hobo]

Stuart, I have used Goretex in cold temperatures like these with a sleeping bag, the major reason for using it was if you don't the vapour from your breath settles and freezes on your sleeping bag, which could mean a cold soggy frozen down bag :eek:

Someone mentioned them before, but the military bags are pretty good, Ajungilak used to make a pretty good bag called the Tyin which was very warm, so that may be worth having a look for :)
I haven't used Goretex in low temperatures (not sure I've got any) but if it works in them it would be extremely useful. If you read the accounts of Scott's polar expeditions he had enormous trouble with frozen vapour. In my own experience it can triple the weight of something absorbent.
Leon I think they do still make it. It's the only Ajungilak bag I have used, and was well designed an had a pretty honest temperature rating. :)

[Kepis]

I'm getting my Nanok 0oC from out Outdoorcode (http://www.outdoorcode.co.uk/) on Thursday or Friday. Can't wait :) ..

Funny that, so am i, ordered it today

[HuBBa]

Hey all, im also looking for a winter-bag right now. Especially since the damn temp just took a proper stage-dive up here :) After googling my little fingers off for eiderdown for trying to make it myself i stumbled upon these guys: http://www.roberts.pl/

Haven't heard of them, but the materials and the specs they show looks pretty impressive. So i wonder, has anyone heard of these sacks? Are they good? Expensive?

Here in Sweden a good winter-bag will cost me between £200-£250 in a normal outdoors shop and that feels like im paying a lot for the brand instead of the quality of the sack.

[arctic hobo]

Are you wanting down only? Because although there are obvious disadvantages to fibre, it is a lot cheaper. :) What sort of rating are you after?
I've not used Roberts bags, the name rings a bell but I'm not sure where I've come across them before. I'll ask around :)

[HuBBa]

Well, i plan to use this bag for a loooooong time and in some potentially very cold weather so a extreme rating of -30C is a must. More won't be bad either =)

And what i've gathered from most threads about it Down will be a definate advantage when it comes to weight vs insulation. When we're talking -30C the humidity is almost zero so getting it wet is not a big issue if you are careful and keep it in a dry environment and avoid the moisture from your breath to go into your bag.

[Marts]

Hi Artic Hobo
Since you have clearly looked at Nanok range alot can you tell me what the real differences are between:

Nanok performance -10 (£120)
Nanok endurance -10 (£100)
Nanok comfort -10 (£80)
:confused:

Cheers
Marts

[Abbe Osram]

Hi Artic Hobo
Since you have clearly looked at Nanok range alot can you tell me what the real differences are between:

Nanok performance -10 (£120)
Nanok endurance -10 (£100)
Nanok comfort -10 (£80)
:confused:

Cheers
Marts

you got something wrong there mate, I have myself the endurance and it is -25
I guess its a printing mistake you found.

cheers
Abbe

[Stuart]

hmm I seem to have been misunderstood :rolleyes:

my comment on ignoring advice to buy gortex sleeping bags was a response to post #2 in this thread

this refers to sleeping bags made with a gortex outer, not gortex bivibags, I dont think i need to explain why this is not a good idea

I extreme cold I often use a gortex bivi bag to keep melt water off my down bag, though it is important to realize that in extremely cold conditions gortex stops being breathable, so there is a temperature threshold where it no longer matters whether your bivibag is PVC or gortex, you will still build up moisture on the inside.

people who spend long periods of time at extremely low temperatures often use vapour barrier liners inside their down bags, vapour barrier liner is a fancy name for 'plastic bag' to stop the moisture from there bodies building up inside there bags day after day and freezing

whilst I am an advocate of down sleeping bags, if I had to recommend a synthetic bag it would probably be a bag from the wiggy company or perhaps a nanok

with sleeping bags you really do get what you pay for, good bags do not come cheap

[Marts]

you got something wrong there mate, I have myself the endurance and it is -25
I guess its a printing mistake you found.

cheers
Abbe

As if bag ratings weren't complicated enough :rolleyes:

HERE (http://www.xtreme-outdoors.com/acatalog/Store_Home_Sleeping_Bags___3_s eason__294.html) is where I found them.

[outdoorcode]

Hi Artic Hobo
Since you have clearly looked at Nanok range alot can you tell me what the real differences are between:
Nanok performance -10 (£120)
Nanok endurance -10 (£100)
Nanok comfort -10 (£80)
:confused:
Cheers
Marts

Nanok have three ranges, Comfort, Performance and Endurance and each is aimed at a different use/market.

The Comfort is designed just for comport, weight and packsize are not key factors only comfort. 6 models available 0 to -10 in synthetic and down

Performance is quoted as designed to offer room and comfort but smaller pack size and weight are important 9 models available +10 to -30 in synthetic and -10 to -30 in down

Endurance are meant as functional, long lasting bags for serious use i.e army, nature photographers, bushcrafters ;) etc.. 3 models available 0 to -25

hopefully that answers Abbe Osram Q as to why he has the -25 when Marts only mentioned -10. Obviously pricing is also a difference between the 3 types

Andrew

[jamesdevine]

No Abbe the Endurance range as 0 rate, -10 and -25 rate bags.

My zero rated bag is is enough for me for winter here it's cheap and cheerful and as such if it gets recked it can be replaced easily.

But I have been watching this thread with interest as a planning a few winter trips up North over the next while and beginning to feel that disbit a few sneezes (I have a middle allergy) a down bag should be the bag to go for.

Has anyone tried the Nanok range of Down bags yet?

James

[arctic hobo]

Well, i plan to use this bag for a loooooong time and in some potentially very cold weather so a extreme rating of -30C is a must. More won't be bad either =)

And what i've gathered from most threads about it Down will be a definate advantage when it comes to weight vs insulation. When we're talking -30C the humidity is almost zero so getting it wet is not a big issue if you are careful and keep it in a dry environment and avoid the moisture from your breath to go into your bag.
Have a peek at Rab bags, Mountain Hard Wear bags, and the Nanok Performance range. The first two are designed for mountaineering at altitude, so have big ratings and small weight. Both are in my experience very good manufacturers. The Nanok Performance range are expedition bags - apparently they sell the most to scientists doing polar work. Both come to the same thing. There is a Performance -30, which sounds about right for you, and if it's anything like my old Endurance -25, it'll keep you snuggly 5-10 degrees below that, depending of course on how you treat the bag and how you sleep. Ectomorphs (tall skinny people who are naturally so, like me) sleep warmer than everyone else because of their metabolism, despite having less fat, not sure if this helps you ;)
With Mountain Hard Wear, look at the Expedition Ghost and the Expedition Wraith, they are down and rated -40 and -30 respectively. My experience of these bags is that they are built and designed well, and should last you :)
Rab bags I have less experience of, and you will have more trouble getting a bag for colder conditions. However their build quality is second to none. The Summit 1000 bag is rated to -25.
Of course as it's down all these bags will cost yer. But all three are rather excellent ;)

Marts the three bags are just designed for different purposes. The Comfort bags are family type bags. As their website tells you, the features are geared towards a sort of general use, for example they have zippers designed to cool you down if you're using it in a warm hostel. They are however very good bags - they have the lovely Nanok armholes (best thing for breakfast :D ), and the usual quality and genuine ratings. The Performance bags (I in fact own the Performance -10) are designed with a little more emphasis on the serious traveller. They are smaller, lighter, and have an optimised fill structure to cut weight down where it's not needed and keep it where it is. They are designed basically for hikers who want a fibre bag.
The Endurance range in my opinion are the best. They were actually designed for the Norwegian Special Forces (which is why they are Endurance SF), which is actually true (unlike all the endless "the SAS use these! claims from ebay and the less-honest surplus shops). They are designed for continual hard use. They aren't as small as the Performance range, or as user-friendly as the Comfort range, but they are probably longer lasting and give you real features that matter when the going is tough. They have a boot bucket so you can get in the bag quickly in an emergency without messing about changing your footwear. This can also be used as a water carrier or removed. They have zips on both sides that are more comfortable than the "breakout zip" found on the british bags but functions in a similar way. It also means that the zip baffles are warmer and less intrusive when you're lying in the bag. The fibre is all at angles to itself to avoid cold spots where the thinner parts coincide. You also get the armholes and the ability to zip two bags together. Lastly there is no glue on the fibre which means no glue cold spots and you can machine wash it at 60 which on other bags would melt the glue. In short, versatile, effective, reliable. :D
I swear I am not affiliated with them! Although perhaps I should be, all the advertising I do. :rolleyes:
Cheers
Chris ;)

[arctic hobo]

Has anyone tried the Nanok range of Down bags yet?

James
Yup... which were you looking at?

[arctic hobo]

hmm I seem to have been misunderstood :rolleyes:

my comment on ignoring advice to buy gortex sleeping bags was a response to post #2 in this thread

this refers to sleeping bags made with a gortex outer, not gortex bivibags, I dont think i need to explain why this is not a good idea

I extreme cold I often use a gortex bivi bag to keep melt water off my down bag, though it is important to realize that in extremely cold conditions gortex stops being breathable, so there is a temperature threshold where it no longer matters whether your bivibag is PVC or gortex, you will still build up moisture on the inside.

people who spend long periods of time at extremely low temperatures often use vapour barrier liners inside their down bags, vapour barrier liner is a fancy name for 'plastic bag' to stop the moisture from there bodies building up inside there bags day after day and freezing

whilst I am an advocate of down sleeping bags, if I had to recommend a synthetic bag it would probably be a bag from the wiggy company or perhaps a nanok

with sleeping bags you really do get what you pay for, good bags do not come cheap
Point taken Stuart :D
The one big issue I have with down is the story Sir Ranulph Fiennes tells of his first expedition on the Jostedalsbreen - the hairiest day they had the ice was melting under the tent, gallons of water were pouring past. Everything was soaked and four members of the team staggered in, nearly dead from exposure... they climbed into their bags together and survived. I wonder what might have happened with down?
I know it's fairly extreme, but what I'm saying is that although they are more expensive, and warmer for their weight they can't cope with everything :)

[HuBBa]

Down + Water = bad idea. Though my co-worker just mentioned something they did to dry out their bags in the Army, they flipped it inside out and let any moisture inside freeze, then brushed it off.

but ofcourse, if you are forced to sleep in any sack which is wet, it spells Hypothermia. down or synthetic, they are all cold when wet.

[jamesdevine]

The performance one was the one in particular and from reading your posts you have one. But advice or comments on any of them are helpful. Not having an expereince of very low tempts advice like that found in this thread are helpful.

Do tell. you PM if you want.

James

[arctic hobo]

Might as well post it, others may be interested after all ;)
I've actually got the fibre -10. I don't actually own any down bags because money forbids such activities :D but I've used the -20 down bag.
It's actually very similar to the fibre one, same structure and design, although of course it's a lot lighter and packs smaller. They don't have the armholes :( but do have a good shape. The Endurance bags aren't available in down unfortunately, so the pricier Performance is your best bet I think. Also consider as I mentioned before Rab and Mountain Hardwear. :)
If you've got any specific questions...

[jamesdevine]

I think you have answered by questions for now Thanks. It's not an urgent buy and so I have time to shop around and save up. I do like the look of the Endurance arrange (you can't buy them here but the Irish army use them and all reports from there are good) and so I certainly will be replacing my current bag with a 0 temp one when it goes.

Thanks again,
James

[Beer Monster]

Well, i plan to use this bag for a loooooong time and in some potentially very cold weather so a extreme rating of -30C is a must. More won't be bad either =)

And what i've gathered from most threads about it Down will be a definate advantage when it comes to weight vs insulation. When we're talking -30C the humidity is almost zero so getting it wet is not a big issue if you are careful and keep it in a dry environment and avoid the moisture from your breath to go into your bag.

If you're looking for a hard wearing but adaptable bag then you could go for the Nanok Endurance 0 and -10. These bags can be combined to give a rating of about -30(?). So for the price of 2 bags you get 3:- a summer bag, an autumn (or UK winter!) bag and as these two bags are designed to be combined (the Endurance 0 is slightly larger (200cm) so you can fit the -10 (195cm) inside it without compressing the fibres) to give you a -30 deep winter bag. :cool:

This comes at a price though as both bags combined will be quite bulky! Has anybody actually tried this? It's a shame you can't do this with their down bags.

I suppose if you combine the Nanok bags with their Endurance SF Jacket/Trousers you could have even more options :D !

[HuBBa]

The bulkyness on that sounds like it would be pretty appaling yes.

Also, im fairly bulky myself so 2 bags + me would probably mean i can't breathe :)

Since a good bag is something you prob wont replace every year, i'm prepared to put some money into one. And if it's just way too expensive, i'll make an attempt at building one :) Pretty much building every other gear i use now :)

[Beer Monster]

The bulkyness on that sounds like it would be pretty appaling yes.


Yep it may be. Shouldn't be too much of an issue if you use a pulk? If you don't have one here is a website with a download (pdf = skipulks (http://www.skipulk.com/pulkbook.pdf) ) with some useful tips on how to make one.



Also, im fairly bulky myself so 2 bags + me would probably mean i can't breathe :)

Thats the advantage of the Nanok Endurance design the internal volume is maintained so there isn't any compresion at all! It would just be like sleeping in a normal bag ........ no shoulder/chest compression involved! :D

[tedw]

You might be interested in the Outdoor Shop's latest sale. They have two sorts of Mountain Equipment (synthetic) "military" bags at £60. Not used them myself but they seem to be well thought of and are rated down to -12, apparently.

http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductList.aspx?cat=MilitaryC learance&language=en-GB

May even get one myself!

Ted W :)

[EdS]

looks like Im' the odd one out. I've used Snugpak for several years no problem. Winter camped at the CIC hut in a black on black 3 (-7C rating) no problem.

Mind you I get them even cheaper from the factory.

[arctic hobo]

looks like Im' the odd one out. I've used Snugpak for several years no problem. Winter camped at the CIC hut in a black on black 3 (-7C rating) no problem.

Mind you I get them even cheaper from the factory.
Thing is, was it -7? Especially in a hut... can't imagine how it could be :confused:

[Kepis]

Got my Nanok -0 today from Outdoorcode (great guy is our Andrew, kept me fully informed of the progress of my order including sending me the tracking number for the delivery - highly recommended), put the bag in my bivi bag this afternoon to try it out, got in and wowee, instant sweat - very impressed, just gotta find some time now to get out int he wilds and try it overnight - wonder if i could getaway with taking it on my business trip to Finland next week? :rolleyes:

[Adrian]

I've also just bought a Nanok 0 bag from Andrew at Outdoorcode - ordered Friday evening, dispatched yesterday and arrived at my office first thing this morning - can't get much faster service than that! Even got a Nanok pillow thrown in! Bag is very comfortable and warm. I'm off to North Sweden in February; having seen how good this bag is, and how well made it is, I'll definately go for the -25 when they come in in September.
I've used down bags for the last 30 years, and although the Endurance bag is heavier and bulkier it also feels more robust. :)

[Kepis]

Even got a Nanok pillow thrown in! :)

I never got a pillow when i ordered mine off Andrew :(

[Adrian]

I'm probably a lot older than you and need the padding! :)

[Kepis]

I'm probably a lot older than you and need the padding! :)
:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Beer Monster]

I never got a pillow when i ordered mine off Andrew :(

As I recall they were added to the discounted stock that he was selling at a small extra cost ........ he may have run out of stock when you ordered them Maver.

You'll just have to order one when you order a -10 :D ! The pillows are suprisingly good ....... although it took me a while to figure out that you had to unfold it from it's compressed state! :o